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The Big Bleach Speed CRT

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Not sure what you're trying to prove there, yes Byakuya got twice as fast, doesn't compare to what Kenpachi did with Kendo.
 
either way, an argument can be made that the One-handed blitz strike is superior to the earlier two-handed strike.

Byakuya Increases the Speed of his senbonzakura to match Ichigo's which means Ichigo has to deal with far more KE than he had to before.
The durability/toughness of Senbonzakura didn't change between the two scenes.
 
Prove to me that massively increasing your speed to improve the KE and AP is much weaker than swinging with two hands.
Woah there, prove that it was a "massive speed amp" first. Byakuya doubles his speed and Ichigo matches it, the most you can give Ichigo is that he increased his speed at least 2 times. Doesn't sound like a massive speed amp to me.
 
Byakuya had to amp his speed by three times to match Ichigo.
Two times* you're using a faulty translation. And twice is not massive. That would only increase KE by a factor of 4. Albeit to say Ichigo upped his AP by 4 times as well is incorrect, as there was less mass behind the swing, since he used one arm instead of both.
 
Is it necessary? Damage's "interpretation" has been all but dismantled, why must a middle ground be made for such a faulty interpretatation that the manga explicitly debunks?

If there's no other choice then sure, just seems pretty stupid to me.
 
I would honestly be down to average the results from mine and Damage's methods. If that seems like a fair compromise @Damage3245.

The Mid End of the new updated version of the calc you did using cross-sections seems like the best middle ground between our two points.
 
I've seen a lot of people agree with Damage but I've yet to see somebody actually defend his interpretation, seems like a bunch of yes men to me.

The increase from using two hands on a sword is shown to be far above what 2x speed would amp for Ichigo's AP, this is pretty clearly shown in the manga.

And if we agree that two hands > one hand with a 2x speed amp, then we've already seen Ichigo fail to cut or even move a pillar of petals, meaning the argument that he was swatting away entire pillars is already debunked by that alone.
 
0165-008.png

This feat here is ridiculous, even if you consider a superhuman speed the result is MHS
 
@Arc7Kuroi

it's something still quantifiably higher than his regular one-handed swing as opposed to unquantifiable stronger because his using two hands.
If you went to get nitty gritty, Ichigo only used his arm for his faster one-handed strike, while he used his whole body in his two-handed strike. Being that the arm is less than a fourth of your body mass, it would actually make the one-armed strike weaker.

1 Arm is 5.33% body mass so the mass behind Ichigo's strikes decreases by a factor of about ~20 but his speed increases by at least 2, meaning his KE would actually decrease by a factor of ~1/5 when he swatted away all the petals if we want to keep pushing this argument.
 
The Mid End of the new updated version of the calc you did using cross-sections seems like the best middle ground between our two points.
That would be just your point. I believe what the fella was suggesting was taking the average of both methods of calculation.
 
That would be just your point. I believe what the fella was suggesting was taking the average of both methods of calculation.
No, my point actually goes further than what you've calced in there. Because of deflected petals going back into the cloud and stopping other petals before they even reach Ichigo.

The current version of your calc is more of a midway point between our two interpretations. Where Ichigo still hits every petal, just not one sliver at a time.
 
I've seen a lot of people agree with Damage but I've yet to see somebody actually defend his interpretation, seems like a bunch of yes men to me.

The increase from using two hands on a sword is shown to be far above what 2x speed would amp for Ichigo's AP, this is pretty clearly shown in the manga.

And if we agree that two hands > one hand with a 2x speed amp, then we've already seen Ichigo fail to cut or even move a pillar of petals, meaning the argument that he was swatting away entire pillars is already debunked by that alone.
I'm sorry, but what do you think I was doing this entire time? I was arguing and defending the points myself and saying exactly why.
 
No, my point actually goes further than what you've calced in there. Because of deflected petals going back into the cloud and stopping other petals before they even reach Ichigo.
This point was disproved. Because that would mean Ichigo didn't swat all the petals. It would just mean he blocked the whole attack, but Byakuya flat out says every petal was swatted.
 
This point was disproved.
Disagreeing with it is not a disproval.

Arc7, from your perspective my entire interpretation is disproven so I don't know why you would even settle on a compromise.

I still have four members of staff on my side agreeing that your interpretation is wrong.
 
@Duedate8898 Sorry, I should have worded it better, I was more so talking about the people who just say they agree with Damage without actually explaining why nor addressing the counter arguments.
 
Disagreeing with it is not a disproval.
I didn't simply disagree, I provided evidence. Something you have done little of. The only people who say "I agree/disagree" without providing any evidence in this argument was Matthew. So you generalizing my debunk of your claim as "disagreeing" really just tells me you're not listening.
 
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If you went to get nitty gritty, Ichigo only used his arm for his faster one-handed strike, while he used his whole body in his two-handed strike. Being that the arm is less than a fourth of your body mass, it would actually make the one-armed strike weaker
Except the Ichigo using the Master one hand stroke has better feats than the two-handed one.

Deflecting large quantities of petals that are faster> his earlier dual holding feat

Edit: I'm going to Bed, will check out the thread (or whats left of it) tomorrow.
 
Except the Ichigo using the Master one hand stroke has better feats than the two-handed one.

Deflecting large quantities of petals that are faster> his earlier dual holding feat

Edit: I'm going to Bed, will check out the thread (or whats left of it) tomorrow.
Only if you assume he's swatting away entire pillars of petals, which again, beyond an assumption that the manga disagrees with, there's no evidence of.
 
Are you guys missing somethings ?

Damage is saying that (lets assume that there are 7 walls of senbonsakura) then ichigo swatted the 1st wall and and other 6 were swatted away by the force transferred by the 1st wall. (which is basically presenting his shockwave argument in a different manner)
But Byakuya is applying counterforce at all time. If we assume that byakuya wasn't able to react and apply counterforce then the time used in calc would change from 1 second or 5 second to accepted reaction time of byakuya or captain level characters (which might be 0.000001 not good with the numbers but yeah you get the point)
Senbonsakura are controlled so ichigo swatted the some and even few of them that were not properly swatted away would use that counter force to attack again. So Ichigo would have to swat them again. The only way to beat the counter force is to swat away every petal and from byakuya's statement we know he did.

Other than that why ichigo was not able to break open shield of senbon is because there are 100 million petals in the area of that shield while byakuya attacks ichigo to trap him he divided the petals differently therefore even if ichigo used one handed slash he was able to slash through that thinkness.
 
I am confused. One armed Ichigo swinging x2 faster is > full body, two armed Ichigo? Even though the KE increase from the speed is x2 while we know that using two hands is over x5 and this doesn’t even take into account the usage of the entire body.
 
I think the fact that 1 arm ichigo covers a lot more are than 2 arm ichigo is causing the misunderstanding. It's not that he is faster with 1 hand sword but he is covering much bigger area with it. Since fighting with two handed swords would mean area ichigo covers would be much less unless he makes big body movements.
 
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@AnonymousBlank; I don't think anybody said that Ichigo was only swinging two times faster.
This comes from my earlier statement about Byakuya having to move twice as fast to keep up with Ichigo before Arckuroi extrapolated the KE from that. the problem here is that Ichigo would still have to have moved faster than Byakuya's X2 speed to blitz those senbon, hence the point of the feat.
 
I am lost here. Can someone summarize what's going on?

There's two interpretations of Ichigo's feat of deflecting Byakuya's Senbonzakura. (Clouds of petal-like blades, numbering at 100 million).

Arc7Kuroi is insisting that Ichigo had to hit every single blade physically with his sword whereas Shadow and I have been explaining that that doesn't make a lot of sense since as his blade is passing through the cloud he will be knocking back blades that he isn't even touching directly.

This alters the nature of the calc being used to find his speed.

So far Shadow, Jvando, DDM and Matthew Schroder agree with me, along with a few other users on here. Some other Bleach fans support Arc7's POV.
 
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