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The Big Bleach Speed CRT: Part 2 - Post-Timeskip

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I don’t like how now Renji’s calc can be called an outlier because our only speed calc is the Orihime-Explosion calc on this site. So since all our profiles upscale a Mach 7.41 calc, it’s highly disingenuous to say characters can’t be FTL since they only upscale a calc that scales to SS arc fourth seats.

Idk how to fix that tho as all the speed feats in Bleach are invalid here. As far as statements go we have Candice’s lightning > natural lightning and Hikone moving so fast time appears to stop (which is a physical consequence of moving at light speed), but both of those are CFYOW quotes and it doesn’t look like we are scaling anyone to Candice’s lightning besides Ichigo, but Ichigo upscales Hikone anyhow.
 
@Arc7Kuroi; The first statement for Candices' lightning doesn't necessarily mean speed, and do we have the official translation of Hikone's statement?
 
Damage3245 said:
@Arc7Kuroi; The first statement for Candices' lightning doesn't necessarily mean speed, and do we have the official translation of Hikone's statement?
Click to expand...
Well that furthers my point of like nothing to go off of for scaling Bleach speeds with statements. I have the Japanese version of CFYOW III and when I translated it it came out to something like “to the observer it would appear as if the surrounding environment’s time had stopped” other’s translations match up with that. But to answer your question, no, CFYOW III drops it’s VIZ translation in March 2021.

So if we are proposing that the distance calc and Renji calc be removed due to them yielding values significantly higher than those obtained from upscaling an SS Arc feat, then here’s my proposal:

Go through the sandbox and upscale everyone from the Orihime calc like we’ve done for the pre-ts profiles. Then rate Res + Gentei Kaijou released Hikone as light speed for moving fast enough to make time appear to stop. Then base CFYOW Kenpachi is SoL, 5x with Bankai to FTL. Then Transcended Aizen are FTL for upscaling all Shinigami (aka BanKen), God Aizen is at least FTL for being above his prior form, Post-Dangai Ichigo is at least FTL for scaling above God Aizen. TS Ichigo is at least FTL for being equal to Post-Dangai Ichigo, Almighty Yhwach is at least FTL for scaling above TS Ichigo. Merged Hollow Form Ichigo is at least FTL+ (since hollowfication for Ichigo has historically been a 5-10x boost to all stats of not higher), SK/Mimihagi-Absorbed Yhwach is at least FTL+ for scaling to MHF TS Ichigo (Yhwach never actual kept up with a MHF TB Ichigo). TB Ichigo is also at least FTL+ since Bankai is 5-10x, EoS Aizen is at least FTL+ for scaling to TB Ichigo. Finally MHF TB Ichigo is MFTL since his True Bankai and Merged Hollow Form at this point should both be at least 5-10x multipliers. Where FTL is 5c, FTL+ is 25c, and MFTL is 125c.

I’m jumping the gun a bit here but I don’t know how active I’ll be during the month of december so I want to put this out here anyhow.
  • Hikone: SoL with Resurreccion and Gentei Kaijo Released (moved so fast time appeared to stop)
  • CFYOW Kenpachi: SoL (kept up with Hikone), FTL with Bankai (Bankai multiplies stats 5x)
  • Aizen: at least FTL with Fourth Fusion (transcends all Shinigami), at least FTL with Fifth Fusion (faster than before), FTL+ post-Muken (kept up with Yhwach)
  • Ichigo: at least FTL post-Dangai (kept up with Aizen), at least FTL with True Shikai (equal to his post-Dangai self), FTL+ with Merged Hollow Form or True Bankai (Hollowfication and Bankai both amp stats by 5x), MFTL with Merged Hollow Form and True Bankai (stacking multipliers this would be 25x True Shikai Ichigo)
  • Yhwach: at least FTL with the Almighty (kept up with Ichigo), FTL+ with SK/Mimihagi-absorbed (kept up with Aizen and Ichigo), [MFTL maybe Infinite attack speed with the Almighty (Ichigo couldn’t react and we discussed maybe this is infinite attack speed)]
 
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If everything seems fine for the characters who don't scale to FTL, I can go ahead and update their profiles for now, and then we can focus on the remaining characters + novel feats.
 
Lol I updated my original post with my thought process for novel scaling, good luck guys. Also damage liked my post before I updated it so don’t assume it’s settled it should still be discussed.
 
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My brother has led me the almighty for today. I only saw one novel statement accepted and all LS speed ratings remove. The vision didn't end there. Months from now a new rule will come, and every CRT made will meet with "that was already discussed before and rejected."
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
  • Yhwach: at least FTL with the Almighty (kept up with Ichigo), FTL+ with SK/Mimihagi-absorbed (kept up with Aizen and Ichigo), [MFTL maybe Infinite attack speed with the Almighty (Ichigo couldn’t react and we discussed maybe this is infinite attack speed)]
Click to expand...
could i see where the infinite speed was discussed
 
Nelliels said:
could i see where the infinite speed was discussed
Click to expand...
Ah jee it’s been a while I don’t exactly remember what thread, but the lasting conclusion was that as soon as he thinks it it happens. So it’s like technically as fast as Yhwach can think, but once it goes off it happens instantly. I don’t remember if a conclusion was reached, it probably needs discussion. I just included it there because it was a thing in the past.
 
Zoro21043 said:
0581-021.png
0581-022.png

can we get ichigos travel speed from this?
the distance he covered was enough to be considered as travel speed and the quincy girls failed to perceive him so his travel speed would scale above them

tho this also supports what was previously said about him getting faster as he traveled to the seireitei cuz here they couldnt perceive him while later on when he was going to yhwach meninas was able to perceive and hit him
Click to expand...
i think if we use this it would solve the problem that we have currently (calc stacking)
as proposed we can take ichigos initial speed as mach 1
and based on this his final speed would scale to their perception and their speed is in mhs bambietta scales to komamura who if im not mistaken is mach 185.25 (based on damage's scaling)

also the fact that later on when ichigo was trying to go to yhwach and that time he could be perceived by meninas while here he couldnt be perceived proves that he was accelerating

i did the calc taking mach 1 as the initial speed and mach 185.25 as the final speed
and the distance was 1,054,081,911 meters
 
@Zoro21043; sorry, but I'm starting to think you just don't know what calc stacking is.

I already said I'd make a Calc Group Member's thread to discuss the feat. Do not try to continue it on this thread.
 
Zoro21043 said:
i think if we use this it would solve the problem that we have currently (calc stacking)
as proposed we can take ichigos initial speed as mach 1
and based on this his final speed would scale to their perception and their speed is in mhs bambietta scales to komamura who if im not mistaken is mach 185.25 (based on damage's scaling)

also the fact that later on when ichigo was trying to go to yhwach and that time he could be perceived by meninas while here he couldnt be perceived proves that he was accelerating

i did the calc taking mach 1 as the initial speed and mach 185.25 as the final speed
and the distance was 1,054,081,911 meters
Click to expand...
someone calced this already i think
 
I already warned you against continuing this and derailing the thread. I'll have to delete the last couple posts. Please save it for another time.
 
Hey I noticed in @Damage3245 w/out FTL calc sandbox that you rate Quilge's base as ~= to his Holy Form with the justification "shouldn't be much slower than his Holy Form" but you rate Bambietta as unknown in her base. Should we treat her the same and let her backscale her speed from her Holy Form like Quilge?
 
@Arc7Kuroi; most of the justifications are left intact from their original descriptions.

I am going to propose, probably in a CRT next week, on removing some keys for a few characters such as Bambietta for example. That's the main reason why I've left it as Unknown for now.
 
Again - just copy/pasted his justification from his current profile.

I don't think we've ever scaled Yama to Aizen. Logically it would make sense by hype, if not directly by feats, because the only actual "speed feats" we had from Yama in his exchanges with Aizen was grabbing Aizen's arm after Aizen stabbed him and let his guard down, and grabbing his leg when Aizen thought that Yama was defeated and was going to finish him off.

Though Aizen does also state that in a straight fight with Yama he could lose (though he seems specifically to be referring to his Zanpakuto).
 
Damage3245 said:
Again - just copy/pasted his justification from his current profile.

I don't think we've ever scaled Yama to Aizen. Logically it would make sense by hype, if not directly by feats, because the only actual "speed feats" we had from Yama in his exchanges with Aizen was grabbing Aizen's arm after Aizen stabbed him and let his guard down, and grabbing his leg when Aizen thought that Yama was defeated and was going to finish him off.

Though Aizen does also state that in a straight fight with Yama he could lose (though he seems specifically to be referring to his Zanpakuto).
Click to expand...
Gotcha, I still think we should scale Yama to base Aizen, because Aizen did say something along the lines of "if we were to fight head on I'm not sure who would win" which implies they are both very relative to each other. Plus there's the whole "no Shinigami has been born greater than I in the past thousand years" quote from Yama. If Aizen were that much faster than Yama there'd be no need to fear him because he could just blitz Yama since we already know Aizen was capable of damaging Yama.
 
I've updated Yama's and Royd's ratings to Sub-Rel.

If Aizen were that much faster than Yama there'd be no need to fear him because he could just blitz Yama since we already know Aizen was capable of damaging Yama.
Click to expand...

Arguably that's exactly what Aizen attempted to do, though it's also likely that Yama just let him stab him since it gave him an opportunity to grab Aizen.
 
Damage3245 said:
Arguably that's exactly what Aizen attempted to do, though it's also likely that Yama just let him stab him since it gave him an opportunity to grab Aizen.
Click to expand...
Yeah I see where you're coming from, although to that I'd just say why not aim for somewhere more vital, but you updated the profiles so no need for me to keep pushing the point.
 
In fairness, ill go out on a limb here for Yama. Because didnt Aizen go as far as to make Wonderweis with the only purpose in mind to subdue Yama's Zanpakuto?

Why would Aizen go to such lengths if Yama wasnt that much relative to him in base?
 
So, I've copied over @Damage3245's sandbox and updated it with what I believe to be all the affected characters, and updated them without the FTL calcs.

Here's what it would look like based on what is currently on their profiles: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Arc7Kuroi/Sandbox_Post-TS_Speed_Low-End_Multipliers

Obviously if you want to know what they'd look like with Renji's calc, that's posted in the OP.

I included some CFYOW stuff in there primarily because the God Tiers get their scaling from it and then I was like might as well add more.
 
Regarding base Yhwach, I think we should change his justification to: "Was able to defeat Yamamoto after stealing his Bankai", which would still make him Sub-Rel. It's a bit better than randomly scaling him to Gerard.

The biggest issue I have with the proposed scaling chain is assuming Transcendent Aizen > Bankai Kenpachi in the novels.

I think that the God Tier stuff should be discussed separately, especially since a lot of is dependent on the novels right now and we're still awaiting the official translation for the 3rd one.
 
Damage3245 said:
Regarding base Yhwach, I think we should change his justification to: "Was able to defeat Yamamoto after stealing his Bankai", which would still make him Sub-Rel.
Click to expand...
Yeah thinking the same.

Damage3245 said:
The biggest issue I have with the proposed scaling chain is assuming Transcendent Aizen > Bankai Kenpachi in the novels.

I think that the God Tier stuff should be discussed separately, especially since a lot of is dependent on the novels right now and we're still awaiting the official translation for the 3rd one.
Click to expand...
I just included it because it's what we currently accept here. Nothing from the 3rd Novel really changes the speed tiering since Hikone scales to possibly FTL already via upscaling and mutlipliers.

Without assuming Transcendent Aizen > Bankai Kenpachi, you'd get God Aizen, TYBW Aizen, Post-Dangai Ichigo, TS Ichigo, TB Ichigo, Almighty Yhwach, SK/Mimihagi-Absorbed Yhwach, and Powers-Absorbed Yhwach all at at least FTL (FTL means 1.88c to 9.4c here), with Transcendent Aizen at at least Sub-Rel for all curious.

I will say I don't know if there are any cool calculable feats in CFYOW, so for the CFYOW scaling I have in the sandbox it's all just following the chain of scaling to TYBW characters.
 
Yhwach did take the power of everyone that died in the war, Yama died so he base Yhwach scale above him.
 
Okay. I don't think we currently accept the "Transcendant Aizen > all Soul Reapers" scaling currently (mostly because Aizen always happened to scale above them anyways), but we can arrange a proper discussion of that scaling argument later. For now, I think we should scale the profiles without that.

There are still minor scaling revisions, key changes, and justification updates that I have planned - and then there's discussion of multipliers in the future too - so I don't think I need to make any specific changes to what's there aside from the base Yhwach one.

You've done good work in putting all that together.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
So, I've copied over @Damage3245's sandbox and updated it with what I believe to be all the affected characters, and updated them without the FTL calcs.

Here's what it would look like based on what is currently on their profiles: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Arc7Kuroi/Sandbox_Post-TS_Speed_Low-End_Multipliers

Obviously if you want to know what they'd look like with Renji's calc, that's posted in the OP.

I included some CFYOW stuff in there primarily because the God Tiers get their scaling from it and then I was like might as well add more.
Click to expand...
Why doesn't Askin climb to Yoruichi and Kisuke ????
 
Damage3245 said:
Regarding base Yhwach, I think we should change his justification to: "Was able to defeat Yamamoto after stealing his Bankai", which would still make him Sub-Rel. It's a bit better than randomly scaling him to Gerard.

The biggest issue I have with the proposed scaling chain is assuming Transcendent Aizen > Bankai Kenpachi in the novels.

I think that the God Tier stuff should be discussed separately, especially since a lot of is dependent on the novels right now and we're still awaiting the official translation for the 3rd one.
Click to expand...
In the light novel SAFWY (which is canon and they mention some events both in the manga and CFYOW) Kenpachi is able to fight with eyepatch an opponent who Uryu said to be on Vasto Lorde Ichigo level and there was also another character using a copy of Mugetsu on that fight prior to the Fullbring arc. Were Renji said to be training to fight Aizen. I don't remember if the manga mentioned the other captains training, but I read something like that IIRC.
 
Damage3245 said:
Okay. I don't think we currently accept the "Transcendant Aizen > all Soul Reapers" scaling currently (mostly because Aizen always happened to scale above them anyways), but we can arrange a proper discussion of that scaling argument later. For now, I think we should scale the profiles without that.

There are still minor scaling revisions, key changes, and justification updates that I have planned - and then there's discussion of multipliers in the future too - so I don't think I need to make any specific changes to what's there aside from the base Yhwach one.

You've done good work in putting all that together.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I was under the impression we did my b, I'll change that then. I also made it again for both pre-ts and post-ts using 7.5x as the Bankai multiplier instead of 5x :p.

Pre-ts using 7.5x: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Arc7Kuroi/Sandbox_Pre-TS_Speed_Revised_Multipliers
Post-ts using 7.5x: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Arc7Kuroi/Sandbox_Post-TS_Speed_Revised_Multipliers

USklaverei said:
Why doesn't Askin climb to Yoruichi and Kisuke ????
Click to expand...
Rereading the fight he only ever keeps up with them when they're fatigued from poison, because I originally had him climb too. The instant Kisuke heals himself with Bankai he blitzes Askin too. He gets blitzed by Shunko Yoruichi, he gets blitzed by thundercat Yoruichi, Urahara is casually keeping up with him, he gets blitzed by Bankai Urahara, he keeps up with a Yoruichi who can't stand, he keeps up with an Urahara who is barely standing.
 
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