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The Big Bleach Speed CRT: Part 2 - Post-Timeskip

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Don’t we already have a scaling chain for the characters? Can they just be updated with the new values? Or are there some new issues?

I wanna say the only new calc we have during the TYBW that’s applied is the FTL calcs so it should be easy to update those that don’t scale no?
 
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Don’t we already have a scaling chain for the characters? Can they just be updated with the new values? Or are there some new issues?

I wanna say the only new calc we have during the TYBW that’s applied is the FTL calcs so it should be easy to update those that don’t scale no?

In theory, it should be easy. I've had to make some minor alterations like removing the links between characters who don't scale to each other at all, like between Bambietta and the rest of the Sternritter girls.

Here is the current version of the scaling list with all of the FTL characters removed. I'm adding back in the characters now who have keys that don't scale to FTL.
 
i noticed
why is ukitake who is sick and never trains far faster than he was in soul society arc
 
i noticed
why is ukitake who is sick and never trains far faster than he was in soul society arc
Good question. To be honest I don't know why we scale him to being equal to Shunsui in the Thousand Year Blood War Arc when Ukitake doesn't have a single on-screen fight for the whole arc.
 
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can we get ichigos travel speed from this?
the distance he covered was enough to be considered as travel speed and the quincy girls failed to perceive him so his travel speed would scale above them

tho this also supports what was previously said about him getting faster as he traveled to the seireitei cuz here they couldnt perceive him while later on when he was going to yhwach meninas was able to perceive and hit him
 
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can we get ichigos travel speed from this?
the distance he covered was enough to be considered as travel speed and the quincy girls failed to perceive him so his travel speed would scale above them

tho this also supports what was previously said about him getting faster as he traveled to the seireitei cuz here they couldnt perceive him while later on when he was going to yhwach meninas was able to perceive and hit him

That feat could yield in the sub-rel/rel zone (depending on ends), but I need to find a reliable way to scale the clock on that tower for more concrete numbers.

Edit: Like, here is an example

clock 3m = 24px

hight of panel - 422px

Distance from point of view to object = object size * panel height in pixels/[object height in pixels*2*tan(70deg/2)]

Distance from point of view to object = 3 * 422/[24*2*tan(70deg/2)] = 1266/22,74310657968 = 55.66m

speed = 55.66/2.272727e-6 = 24490400 m/s or mach 71969.2

Timeframe is from CFYOW Candice reacting to Ginjo's attempted blitz, Ginjo who reacted and countered a point-blank Electrocution from her seconds prior (so it's a lightning speed combat/movement speed based on direct feats and 0 calcs, so no calc-stacking).
 
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In theory, it should be easy. I've had to make some minor alterations like removing the links between characters who don't scale to each other at all, like between Bambietta and the rest of the Sternritter girls.

Here is the current version of the scaling list with all of the FTL characters removed. I'm adding back in the characters now who have keys that don't scale to FTL.
You said that ichigo scales to mhs+
 
Well it should be, that Ichigo is a lot stronger and faster than the ichigo that was stomping Tsukishima.
Since was keeping up with a ginjo amped with the power of that previous ichigo.
 

A weaker Candice pulls this off in the sequel light novel. Credits to Python

Are Candice's attacks actually lightning speed then?​

To put it simply, it's confirmed that some are and some aren't.

As shown in the manga, Candice can either fire lightning-amped arrows or drop cloud-to-ground lightning to take down her opponents. Unless stated otherwise, the assumption here and on r/whowouldwin is that cloud-to-ground lightning could possibly be lightning speed while "lightning attacks" are considered slower and unquantifiable.

That is exactly right in Candice's case.

Her lightning-amped arrows are fast, but they're "much slower" than actual lightning.

Ginjō decided that either way, they could not be careless. –
Their attacker did not give him margin for further thought.
What came flying towards them was a horizontal flash of lightning.
To be precise, it was an extremely ferocious looking single arrow, completely entwined in high voltage lighting.
“Hey, hey, seriously?”

Although it is far slower than an actual lightning strike, this arrowhead of Reishi still came flying at a rate worthy enough to be called 'lightning speed’.
Kugo Ginjo had also called her out, stating that the attack was far to slow to be lightning-speed.

They dodged it just in the nick of time, but if they had been caught up in the electrical discharge, there’s no way they would have gotten away without consequences – before he knew it, Ginjō was brandishing a large sword in his hands, sweeping it sideways to disperse the lightning strike together with the Reishi that filled the air.
Whilst readying his large sword, pointing it in the direction in which the arrow that mingled with lightning flew in from, a daring smile played on Ginjō’s lips.

“Ha… awfully slow for lightning wasn’t it? It seems impossible but, that couldn’t possibly have been a lethal assassination technique just now could it?”
However, she's also capable of utilizing the sky in order to fire genuine bolts of lightning from the sky itself. You know when Ginjo called her attacks slow earlier? She didn't like that.

“Who are you calling… slow?”
It was the voice of a young woman.
Meanwhile, a Reiatsu different to that of Shinigami or Hollow, swelled up at the center of the group.
Was it that she had cast off some sort of special coat that implements active camouflage, or perhaps she was using a different method altogether? The woman who materialised so abruptly as if she had seeped out from the shadows, was completely wrapped in white plasma.
Her white western style garments which were mostly open at the chest, was designed with her unique modifications applied in which a large portion of her abdomen, including her navel, was exposed.
Scars which appeared to be the result of some experimental procedure could be seen all over her body including parts of her exposed skin, however Ginjō had no time to pay attention to small details.
Then, the woman who had emerged from the shadows shouted at the top of her lungs in a voice mixed with mockery and irritation.
“If that’s the case…… I’ll let you assholes die quickly!”
With those brutal words, small bolts of lightning extended into the sky from her raised hand
—- a genuine lightning strike not entangled in an arrow came rushing down towards Ginjō and the others with a thunderous rumble.
The technique that dropped down cloud-to-ground lightning was called "Electrocution", and it was the same one that Ichigo Kurosaki had blasted after it had been fired. Not only was it called "a genuine bolt of lightning", it was later confirmed that this attack did indeed have lightning-speed capabilities.

Moreover, as if to indicate that it was the finishing blow, she cast down the same “Electrocution” that was unleashed upon Ginjō and the others a short while ago.
The barrage of assaults, that were hammered out with
lightning speed momentum in a very literal sense, blanket the surroundings with a dazzling light.
What's more, she can spam cloud-to-ground lightning.

Candice fired a series of lightning bolts from the sky.
"Hah! Let's see you crawl out of this one!"
The glittering lightning bolts illuminated the battle-field.
"Wow! They're like fireworks at a festival! Look, Bambi-chan!"
Giselle continued to shoot her Heilig Pfeil as she spoke pleasantly.

Even if her attacks are lightning-speed, has anyone reacted to them?​

Yes, actually. Quite a few.

Firstly, there are the Fullbringers, Ginjo and Tsukishima.

Ginjo slashed away the actual lightning bolt that was launched at them.

—- what is this?
—- what am I looking at right now?
Almost immediately, a cold sweat trickled down the body of Candice who was just convinced of her victory.
Even if there is a decline in power, it should have been a lightning strike that was able to incinerate a target whether it was a Shinigami who harboured a fair amount of competency or not.
However,
when the lightning she herself had summoned finally dissipated, the figures of three men who appear to have defied that lightning strike, rise to the surface.
Be that as it may, this is not the thing that shocked Candice.
What caused her to be taken aback, unexpectedly made an appearance beside the targets, a huge, thick rooted tree growing so high as if to pierce to heavens.
Candice who had launched the surprise attack, is at the very least able to grasp the state of affairs surrounding her.
Until just before she unleashed her “Electrocution”, such a thing had not existed there.
—- Crap! Most of my lightning strike flowed into that tree?!
The thunderstorm which even surpasses nature’s lightning, was mostly absorbed into the ground through the large tree,
meanwhile the flank attack generated by the thunderstorm was repelled in the same fashion as before by the big sword in the possession of the man with the black jacket.
Yes, that is describing Base Ginjo.

Remember, how well that version of Ginjo did against Fullbring Shikai Ichigo? Not well at all.

And he was fast enough to slap away the lightning attack like he did the lightning arrow from earlier.

He likely did get stronger as he trained a bit with Ganju, Tsukishima and Giriko, but the increase couldn't have changed his position on the totem pole by much.

Meanwhile, Tsukushima created a tree to absorb the electrical discharge before the lightning bolt hit them.

“It’s no big deal. I merely nurtured this tree in between reading my book. I took all possible measures to do so from the time it was a seedling.”
“…Just how many years did you insert?”
Ginjō spoke as if he was stunned.
The moment this opponent had appeared, Tsukishima transformed his bookmark into a katana with his Fullbring, he then slashed the tree he was leaning against using his “Book of The End” ability.
By wedging his own presence into the tree’s past, he was able to supply it with copious amounts of nutrition and transform it into a humongous tree.
Remember that there was no tree before Candice launched her attack, so Tsukishima can at least thinkpretty quickly. If nothing else, his ability can change stuff pretty damn fast.

Base Shinji Hirako had also been able to dodge the lightning bolts. He wasn't the target, but he was in the line of fire and he did manage to dodge one.

The barrage of assaults, that were hammered out with lightning speed momentum in a very literal sense, blanket the surroundings with a dazzling light.
“That was close…! What the heck are those two doing! Do they not care that I’m also standing here!?”

Having evaded the lightning strike by a hairbreadth, Hirako exclaimed aloud as a cold sweat trickled down his cheek.
Finally, the obvious one, True Shikai Ichigo Kurosaki. This one happened in the manga.

Candice had prepared her lightning and Ichigo wasn't shown to do anything on this page. She fired her lightning on the page after that, still nothing shown from Ichigo though. Ichigo was not shown to prepare his attack until the page after the blast was unleashed. Then, on the next page, we see the Juujishou fired before it dispersed the lightning attack.

It's possible that Ichigo had fired before or after her charge-up, but it conflicts heavily with the order ofevents that were displayed and there's no evidence to say that the order of events varied from what was shown in the manga.

Also, in this particular fight, Ichigo was going for the wait-and-see approach. Earlier in the chapter, he didn't fire Getsuga until he had seen Candice's attack.
 
I have seen the ratings and I do not agree.

Fullbringer shikai Ichigo sould scale to around mach 1800 via tsukushima.
It is even consistent with the fact that Ginjo absorved his previous power on top of his base.
 
@Tyri456; I'll put Ichigo's rating at that.

@AppleLord; thanks for copying and pasting a post you found on reddit, I guess? But your post is useless if it doesn't actually have any proposition in it.
 
''Remember that there was no tree before Candice launched her attack, so Tsukishima can at least thinkpretty quickly. If nothing else, his ability can change stuff pretty damn fast.''

My calculation of Tsukishima was denied because according to someone it is not known how tall the tree was before it made it grow.
 
The post proof that Ichigo’s lightning speed isn't an assumption. Is his baseline speed for the distance feat.
Cool. As the Calc Stacking page says, rating him just to that speed is fine:

While it is acceptable to rank a character by such a self-evident feat without a calculation, one should keep in mind that the unwritten calculation is only skipped due to being trivial, but is still the justification for the ranking. Hence calc stacking will still be an issue for such feats.

But it cannot be used as the basis for a calc.
 
Cool. As the Calc Stacking page says, rating him just to that speed is fine:



But it cannot be used as the basis for a calc.
We are following this rules that says we can use the lightning speed statement without the calc.

  • Using a reliable stated timeframe and reliably stated speed something travels during that timeframe one can calculate the distance travelled. Said distance can then usually be used for calculations. (Take heed that paths don't need to be straight and that speed reliably has to be constant)
Now we have a rules paradox. You cannot use Candice calc for one rule and ignore the other. When we can use the lightning statement instead of the calc.
 
If we use Kirinji’s one week with regular Shunpo (faster than the eye can see with the stairs) we get 10584000 km for the distance.

Keep in mind that without Shunpo (which increase the shinigami speed) Ichigo was able to blitz lightning. This is a HUGE low-ball.

rdXFZvA_d.webp
 
Using a reliable stated timeframe and reliably stated speed something travels during that timeframe one can calculate the distance travelled. Said distance can then usually be used for calculations. (Take heed that paths don't need to be straight and that speed reliably has to be constant)

Except the lightning statement isn't given for Ichigo and you're comparing two different scenarios. Ichigo fighting the Sternritter, and Ichigo travelling that distance. Note also this rule:

Using speed of characters or attacks calculated at other instances can't be used, as characters and attacks can vary in speed. This is the case regardless of whether the character is seriously trying to do his best or anything similar.

Now AppleLord, this proposal has been rejected by multiple Calc Group Members including myself so you need to drop the lightning argument. I will have to delete it for derailing if it continues.

If we use Kirinji’s one week with regular Shunpo (faster than the eye can see with the stairs) we get 10584000 km for the distance.

The Wiki lists 34.3 m/s as being FTE speed. With a 1 week timeframe that gives you 20744.64 kilometres.
 
Except the lightning statement isn't given for Ichigo and you're comparing two different scenarios. Ichigo fighting the Sternritter, and Ichigo travelling that distance. Note also this rule:



Now AppleLord, this proposal has been rejected by multiple Calc Group Members including myself so you need to drop the lightning argument. I will have to delete it for derailing if it continues.



The Wiki lists 34.3 m/s as being FTE speed. With a 1 week timeframe that gives you 20744.64 kilometres.
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Uk studied says is 17500 meters every second?
 
About the novel thing, I remember it being stated that Shinji had dodged the lightning by a hairs breadth. Is just gonna be taken as hyperbolic.


The barrage of assaults, that were hammered out with lightning speed momentum in a very literal sense, blanket the surroundings with a dazzling light.
“That was close…! What the heck are those two doing! Do they not care that I’m also standing here!?”
Having evaded the lightning strike by a hairbreadth, Hirako exclaimed aloud as a cold sweat trickled down his cheek.
 
Is it gonna be considered as an exaggeration or would this be calced.
Well, I doubt it could be calced since a distance between them would be unlikely to be provided. But Hirako would probably be a slower than the lightning itself, since the amount of distance he's moved is quite small. At best you can scale him to be comparable to it, but it isn't a guarantee since you don't need to be as fast as something to dodge it.
 
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Well, I doubt it could be calced since a distance between them would be unlikely to be provided. But Hirako would probably be a slower than then lightning itself, since the amount of distance he's moved is quite small. At best you can scale him to be comparable to it, but it isn't a guarantee since you don't need to be as fast as something to dodge it.
That depends on the distance. Here, Shinji was close to the lightning when it missed by a hairbreadth. You can aim-dodge a bullet from a reasonable distance but not up close.
 
So now people who dodge it at pretty much point blank aren't considered lightning speed to you? Good to know.
 
Guys I think you're misunderstanding what Damage is saying a little bit.
He's not saying that Ichigo isn't lightning speed via feats and scaling, but he's saying we can't use that speed for calcs because it's not directly stated in the series.

He's undoubtedly AT LEAST lightning speed obviously, but the wiki's calc stacking rules prevent us from using that in calcs unless directly stated.
I know this painfully well because in Naruto we had trouble with calcing Minato/Naruto dodging the Raikage for years because we had no statements that put the Raikage at lightning speed officially, even though he scaled well above lightning speed via multiple calcs. I think it's a pretty comparable situation.
 
Guys I think you're misunderstanding what Damage is saying a little bit.
He's not saying that Ichigo isn't lightning speed via feats and scaling, but he's saying we can't use that speed for calcs because it's not directly stated in the series.

He's undoubtedly AT LEAST lightning speed obviously, but the wiki's calc stacking rules prevent us from using that in calcs unless directly stated.
I know this painfully well because in Naruto we had trouble with calcing Minato/Naruto dodging the Raikage for years because we had no statements that put the Raikage at lightning speed officially, even though he scaled well above lightning speed via multiple calcs. I think it's a pretty comparable situation.
The databook says Raikage has a lightning armor that has both the strength and speed.
 
The databook says Raikage has a lightning armor that has both the strength and speed.
So long as it doesn't say "he can move at the speed of lightning" verbatim, we can't use it, and that's why to this day there's no accepted calc of Minato/Naruto dodging the Raikage unfortunately.
 
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