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So, I made a thread few days ago over The Beyonder to prove that he's Tier 0. But, a Moderator/Administrator named "Antvasima" closed the Thread in an Instant without even, letting me reply. So, I decided to make this Thread again with Claims thrown usually to prove that The Beyonder isn't Tier 0 or Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnilocked. Here are the reasons which I gave:-
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2739998
1. The Multiverse/Omniverse of 1985 was itself beyond Infinite according to Dr Strange, then we have The Beyonder who was an ocean next to a drop of water, when comparing the trans-Infinite Multiverse/Omniverse to The Beyonder. The Beyonder was also stated to be "Beyond the Marvel Multiverse/Omniverse" which means that, he was beyond "Infinite-Dimensions" or "Trans-Infinity".
2. When The Pre-Retcon Molecule Man(with the Infinite portion of The Beyonder's Powers)fought The Beyonder, they were stated to be "2 of the mightiest being in ALL Existence(or, All-Fiction)". This means that they were more powerful than The One Above All, The Presence, The Overvoid, The Writer, etc. at that moment(Yes. Those Supreme GODS did exist in 1985 as, they are stated to be Omnipresent which means they had always existed in all sorts Time, Space, etc.). And, The Beyonder was more powerful than The Molecule Man.
3. The Beyonder was stated to be over a million times stronger than the Marvel Multiverse/Omniverse and all it's forces combined(These "forces" must include The One Above All, The Living Tribunal, etc. as, they are also the forces which exists for the Multiverse but, outside it).
4. The Beyonder was stated to be stronger than all the Abstracts sitting in a Cosmic hall(Yes. The Living Tribunal is an Abstract and he was present in that hall).
5. The Beyonder was the Supreme Creator/Supreme GOD and the Personification/Embodiment of the Beyond Realm(which contained everything outside the Marvel Multiverse/Omniverse)which was Infinite and the Marvel Multiverse/Omniverse was just another drop of water in it and, the Beyond Realm was an Ocean. An Infinite Ocean would have Infinite drops of water. This means that The Beyonder would be above/beyond Infinite Multiverses/Omniverses or All-Fiction. This implies to the fact that The Beyonder was the Supreme Creator/Supreme GOD of All-Fiction and the strongest character in All-Fiction.
6. The Beyonder has been stated Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient multiple times by the narration of the Comics, the handbooks of Marvel, the Writer bio of Jim Shooter, by Jim Shooter, etc. The Writers of Marvel Comics are the Ultimate authority and their statements should be definitely taken into consideration.
7. The Beyonder exerted himself in multiple condition and even died because, he wanted to experience what being a Mortal feels like. He himself said that his thoughts and Reality are the same. If he wanted, he could have defeated everyone with a mere thought.
Also, this thread proves that The Beyonder is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnilocked/Tier 0:-https://www.fictionalbattleomniverse.com/t1259-beyonder-is-omnipotent
Now, let's take a look at the Claims which, are usually thrown to, prove that The Beyonder isn't Tier 0:-
Claim 1:- The Beyonder has shown many limitations! He wasn't able to reserruct Death, he got his Powers and Abilities stolen by Dr.Doom and Molecule Man(Pre-Retcon), he was exhausted, he wasn't able to save his love and he even, died! He isn't even remotely Tier 0!
Reply:- Those events happened in Secret Wars 2 where, The Beyonder took a human form to experience what being a Human and a Mortal feels like. That's why The Beyonder was much weaker and, those events happened with him.
Claim 2:- Most of the statements about The Beyonder like he being over a million times stronger than the Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse or Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse being a drop of water in front of him, etc. are a Hyperbole! They can't be taken into Consideration. The Marvel Multiverse of 1985 isn't Beyond Infinite and Infinite-Dimensional. Dr. Strange is Hyperbolic!!!
Reply:- No. The statements related to The Beyonder's Powers and Abilities aren't a Hyperbole. They are stated in the Marvel Official Handbooks, Comic Book Narrations, etc. Those are words of the Writers and, Writers have the Ultimate Authority over the Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse. Why should we deny it? Dr. Strange is a being with Immense Cosmic knowledge so, saying that his statement about the Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse is a Hyperbole, is baseless. Over that, there is no reason why Dr. Strange would be Hyperbolic for the Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse.
Claim 3:- The Beyonder isn't Beyond the concept of Dimensions and, for someone to be Tier 0, he/she/it should be Beyond the concept of Dimensions.
Reply:- The Beyonder was stated multiple times by the Official Handbooks of Marvel, Narration of Comics(words of the Writer), etc. to be Beyond the Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse. The Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse was itself beyond Infinite according to Dr. Strange(it isn't a hyperbole as, I've explained in the debunk of Claim 2)and Infinite-Dimensional. The Beyonder was Beyond the Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse. So, The Beyonder was Beyond the concept Trans-Infinity and Infinite Dimensions or simply, he was Dimension-less.
Claim 4:- The Marvel Multiverse of 1985/ Omniverse/All-Existence/All-Fiction aren't the same things!!!!
Reply:- They are. The Marvel Multiverse of 1985 was stated to be Beyond Infinite(Trans-Infinite)by Dr. Strange and Infinite-Dimensional. The Omniverse is also stated to be the same. Over that, The One Above All is stated to be the Supreme Creator of the Marvel Multiverse and possibly, Beyond(we'll not take "possibly, Beyond" into consideration as, it's a possibility)on Marvel's Wiki and the same One Above All is stated to be the creator of the Omniverse. This much proof is more than enough to say that the Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse are the same. The Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse contains all of the Fiction in it's entirety and, also Supreme beings like The One Above All, The Presence, The Creator, etc. as, they're also a work of Fiction and Fictional and they do "exist". All Existence does contain the Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse/All-Fiction as, it is also in an "existing" state and the highest plane of existence possible/Impossible. According to the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Alternate Universes, "It includes every single literary, television show, movie, urban legend, universe, realm, etc. ever. It includes everyone from Popeye to Rocky Balboa to Ronald Reagan to Romeo and Juliet to Luke Skywalker to Snoopy to Jay and Silent Bob, etc."
Claim 5:- The Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse isn't a part of the Beyond Realm.
Reply:- It is. If it wasn't, the Powers and Abilities of The Beyonder wouldn't have worked in the Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse. Simple Logic. The Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse was just another drop of water in the Beyond Realm.
So, The Beyonder should be upgraded to Tier 0.
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2739998
1. The Multiverse/Omniverse of 1985 was itself beyond Infinite according to Dr Strange, then we have The Beyonder who was an ocean next to a drop of water, when comparing the trans-Infinite Multiverse/Omniverse to The Beyonder. The Beyonder was also stated to be "Beyond the Marvel Multiverse/Omniverse" which means that, he was beyond "Infinite-Dimensions" or "Trans-Infinity".
2. When The Pre-Retcon Molecule Man(with the Infinite portion of The Beyonder's Powers)fought The Beyonder, they were stated to be "2 of the mightiest being in ALL Existence(or, All-Fiction)". This means that they were more powerful than The One Above All, The Presence, The Overvoid, The Writer, etc. at that moment(Yes. Those Supreme GODS did exist in 1985 as, they are stated to be Omnipresent which means they had always existed in all sorts Time, Space, etc.). And, The Beyonder was more powerful than The Molecule Man.
3. The Beyonder was stated to be over a million times stronger than the Marvel Multiverse/Omniverse and all it's forces combined(These "forces" must include The One Above All, The Living Tribunal, etc. as, they are also the forces which exists for the Multiverse but, outside it).
4. The Beyonder was stated to be stronger than all the Abstracts sitting in a Cosmic hall(Yes. The Living Tribunal is an Abstract and he was present in that hall).
5. The Beyonder was the Supreme Creator/Supreme GOD and the Personification/Embodiment of the Beyond Realm(which contained everything outside the Marvel Multiverse/Omniverse)which was Infinite and the Marvel Multiverse/Omniverse was just another drop of water in it and, the Beyond Realm was an Ocean. An Infinite Ocean would have Infinite drops of water. This means that The Beyonder would be above/beyond Infinite Multiverses/Omniverses or All-Fiction. This implies to the fact that The Beyonder was the Supreme Creator/Supreme GOD of All-Fiction and the strongest character in All-Fiction.
6. The Beyonder has been stated Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient multiple times by the narration of the Comics, the handbooks of Marvel, the Writer bio of Jim Shooter, by Jim Shooter, etc. The Writers of Marvel Comics are the Ultimate authority and their statements should be definitely taken into consideration.
7. The Beyonder exerted himself in multiple condition and even died because, he wanted to experience what being a Mortal feels like. He himself said that his thoughts and Reality are the same. If he wanted, he could have defeated everyone with a mere thought.
Also, this thread proves that The Beyonder is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnilocked/Tier 0:-https://www.fictionalbattleomniverse.com/t1259-beyonder-is-omnipotent
Now, let's take a look at the Claims which, are usually thrown to, prove that The Beyonder isn't Tier 0:-
Claim 1:- The Beyonder has shown many limitations! He wasn't able to reserruct Death, he got his Powers and Abilities stolen by Dr.Doom and Molecule Man(Pre-Retcon), he was exhausted, he wasn't able to save his love and he even, died! He isn't even remotely Tier 0!
Reply:- Those events happened in Secret Wars 2 where, The Beyonder took a human form to experience what being a Human and a Mortal feels like. That's why The Beyonder was much weaker and, those events happened with him.
Claim 2:- Most of the statements about The Beyonder like he being over a million times stronger than the Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse or Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse being a drop of water in front of him, etc. are a Hyperbole! They can't be taken into Consideration. The Marvel Multiverse of 1985 isn't Beyond Infinite and Infinite-Dimensional. Dr. Strange is Hyperbolic!!!
Reply:- No. The statements related to The Beyonder's Powers and Abilities aren't a Hyperbole. They are stated in the Marvel Official Handbooks, Comic Book Narrations, etc. Those are words of the Writers and, Writers have the Ultimate Authority over the Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse. Why should we deny it? Dr. Strange is a being with Immense Cosmic knowledge so, saying that his statement about the Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse is a Hyperbole, is baseless. Over that, there is no reason why Dr. Strange would be Hyperbolic for the Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse.
Claim 3:- The Beyonder isn't Beyond the concept of Dimensions and, for someone to be Tier 0, he/she/it should be Beyond the concept of Dimensions.
Reply:- The Beyonder was stated multiple times by the Official Handbooks of Marvel, Narration of Comics(words of the Writer), etc. to be Beyond the Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse. The Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse was itself beyond Infinite according to Dr. Strange(it isn't a hyperbole as, I've explained in the debunk of Claim 2)and Infinite-Dimensional. The Beyonder was Beyond the Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse. So, The Beyonder was Beyond the concept Trans-Infinity and Infinite Dimensions or simply, he was Dimension-less.
Claim 4:- The Marvel Multiverse of 1985/ Omniverse/All-Existence/All-Fiction aren't the same things!!!!
Reply:- They are. The Marvel Multiverse of 1985 was stated to be Beyond Infinite(Trans-Infinite)by Dr. Strange and Infinite-Dimensional. The Omniverse is also stated to be the same. Over that, The One Above All is stated to be the Supreme Creator of the Marvel Multiverse and possibly, Beyond(we'll not take "possibly, Beyond" into consideration as, it's a possibility)on Marvel's Wiki and the same One Above All is stated to be the creator of the Omniverse. This much proof is more than enough to say that the Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse are the same. The Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse contains all of the Fiction in it's entirety and, also Supreme beings like The One Above All, The Presence, The Creator, etc. as, they're also a work of Fiction and Fictional and they do "exist". All Existence does contain the Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse/All-Fiction as, it is also in an "existing" state and the highest plane of existence possible/Impossible. According to the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Alternate Universes, "It includes every single literary, television show, movie, urban legend, universe, realm, etc. ever. It includes everyone from Popeye to Rocky Balboa to Ronald Reagan to Romeo and Juliet to Luke Skywalker to Snoopy to Jay and Silent Bob, etc."
Claim 5:- The Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse isn't a part of the Beyond Realm.
Reply:- It is. If it wasn't, the Powers and Abilities of The Beyonder wouldn't have worked in the Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse. Simple Logic. The Marvel Multiverse of 1985/Omniverse was just another drop of water in the Beyond Realm.
So, The Beyonder should be upgraded to Tier 0.
