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The Archiver's Tier
- Thread starter Firephoenixearl
- Start date
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- #122
Yes and in this case they imply the same thing.Nedge1000 said:
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So is countless, but we don't use that here.Nedge1000 said:
When talking about "endless possibilites", it metions the Many Worlds Interpertatio as it deals with possibilites.
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- #125
In our case, endless means infinite. Because after an infinite amount of time. Endless will be infinite. And the archvier was built to embody all the possibilities ever, including those that are to come as he has created and recreated the world thousands of times over, he already embodies the possibilities of 1 world.Warren Valion said:
So yes, in our case endless = infinite. As The Archiver is built with the result and doesn't grow forever, like endless would imply.
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How do you know that The Archiver doesn't "grow forever", because saying he embodies "endless possibilities" is what infers that the world does, in fact, grow forever.Firephoenixearl said:
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No, he embodies "All possibilities". The archiver is an already created computer system made of information. To embody all possibilties, All of Infinity and All of Endless are the same thing.
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The Internet is an ever-growing system made of information, but it already exists. It keeps getting added upon.
I don't see why this is different from any other version of the Many Worlds Interpretatio. Possibilities being the operative word that tells us as such.
I don't see why this is different from any other version of the Many Worlds Interpretatio. Possibilities being the operative word that tells us as such.
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- #130
As i said. When The Archiver was created, they stated he embodies "All Possibilities". Which is why in our case endless = infinity?Warren Valion said:
Because All of Endless = All of Infinity. The way they worded the archiver makes it the same thing, though im down to find it's orignal scan.
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"All Possibilities" = 2-B for reasons I've stated above.
All of Endless means every part of endlessness, not at the end of endlessness (which doesn't even make sense).
So it would be every single universe in a multiverse made from seemingly endless possibilities. Not infinite worlds.
Alaya from Senshinkan embodies all of the endless possibilities, but that's still 2-B.
I don't know why you make this seem like it's bigger than it actually is.
All of Endless means every part of endlessness, not at the end of endlessness (which doesn't even make sense).
So it would be every single universe in a multiverse made from seemingly endless possibilities. Not infinite worlds.
Alaya from Senshinkan embodies all of the endless possibilities, but that's still 2-B.
I don't know why you make this seem like it's bigger than it actually is.
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- #132
Because besides the All of Endless = All of Infinite, there is the fact of:
Their world being a "RESULT" of endless choices and not containing endless choices. Endless choices had to be made before that world was achieved. The Archiver embodies them all.
Their world being a "RESULT" of endless choices and not containing endless choices. Endless choices had to be made before that world was achieved. The Archiver embodies them all.
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- #133
Also anyone have any idea where i can find raw scans for manga? I can't seem to find the raw scans for Get Backers to confirm this.
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"All of Endless = All of Infinite" is meaningless dribble without understanding what is the endless or the infinite in this connotation.
In this case, the "All of Endless" or "All of Infinite" multiverse is based on "All possibilities".
And while "all possibilities" may be an astronomically large number, it is still finite, it is still infinitely smaller than an infinite number.
And the RESULT of having a 2-B multiverse based on "all possibilities" is that eventually when you add up all the possibilities that can exist in the timespan of the universe you have a really big 2-B multiverse.
But it isn't infinite.
In this case, the "All of Endless" or "All of Infinite" multiverse is based on "All possibilities".
And while "all possibilities" may be an astronomically large number, it is still finite, it is still infinitely smaller than an infinite number.
And the RESULT of having a 2-B multiverse based on "all possibilities" is that eventually when you add up all the possibilities that can exist in the timespan of the universe you have a really big 2-B multiverse.
But it isn't infinite.
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I am not sure if Archiver should truly be tier 2 even more...
First of all Archiver was created for the purpose of giving forth a spare copy of the world...that is earth. These possbilities The Archive embodies has only relation to Earth itself
It is also confirmed that the copy world" is indeed a copy of the earth Ginji mom made through thecArchive and the Magic Mirror
Note the scans i posted are all on volume 9...while the scan of choices is whatever vokume that is neither 9 or 8 or even 7 iirc
So ye
First of all Archiver was created for the purpose of giving forth a spare copy of the world...that is earth. These possbilities The Archive embodies has only relation to Earth itself
It is also confirmed that the copy world" is indeed a copy of the earth Ginji mom made through thecArchive and the Magic Mirror
Note the scans i posted are all on volume 9...while the scan of choices is whatever vokume that is neither 9 or 8 or even 7 iirc
So ye
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So what would that be?
Something like: "At least 5-B"
Something like: "At least 5-B"
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@ALRF
Oh.
Oh.
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MoodAzathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Green Goblin "oh"
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That was my problem with tier 2 Archive but I couldn't remember.
Anyway I'll reach that point eventually.
Anyway I'll reach that point eventually.
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disregarding the matter about getbackers at hand, the word "world" in itself rarely mean anything concrete. in itself it doesn't necessarily mean a planet or a universe, it can refer to either one of them but it can also mean something else entirely. are you holding the idea that a world generally mean a universe?Nedge1000 said:
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Gun Slave Unit, usually world = universe when space-time destruction is involved.
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Well, the words "A spare Earth" are in the scans, which indicate the connotation of the word "world" as in planet, not universe.
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Oh
Are these backups of the world merely backups of their physical form or do they also contain their space times? Because if it contains space-time, then surely containing infinite space-times, even if they are each individually limited to a planet in physical size, would still qualify for 2-A?
Are these backups of the world merely backups of their physical form or do they also contain their space times? Because if it contains space-time, then surely containing infinite space-times, even if they are each individually limited to a planet in physical size, would still qualify for 2-A?
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not necessarily, no. even disregarding the spare earth part in the scan, a destruction of time and space in accordance to the usage of the word world still doesn't corroborate to it having the meaning of universe. unless the scale of which said destruction occurs is outright universal in scale
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how would those possibilities only be in relation to the earth?
that seems like special pleading to me
that seems like special pleading to me
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Space time is space time, if there are an infinite number of those space-times, that should still qualify for 2-A, albeit a lower level than fully universal space-times.
If you can destroy or create infinite sets of space-time, regardless of their size you still have an infinite amount of space-time continuums. And they still have whatever 5D distance between them I hear people talking about that makes a low 2-C who triples their power not 2-C
If you can destroy or create infinite sets of space-time, regardless of their size you still have an infinite amount of space-time continuums. And they still have whatever 5D distance between them I hear people talking about that makes a low 2-C who triples their power not 2-C
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- #152
Actually creating backups of "earth" (assuming the scans/translation is correct) is not correct and that was the original plan, however TA (TA is short for The Archiver) grew out of their control due to the work of a rebel and grew to have different space-time continums. As Makubex explained there are other universes which exist for ever single possible combination of choices. Furthermore, it was already explained that destroying the infinity fortress would result in the destruction of an entire space time (which is why, ginji, akabane , ban and the voodoo king have the low 2-C tier).
So no, TA is not 5-B. He is an at least 2-B, likely 2-A being, for having created that many universes. Though whether he stays at 2-A or goes back to 2-B, is another point as we'r gonna need the original translations or keep him at "At least 2-B, likely 2-A", untill we find the raw scans and see if the word means strictly infinity or endless.
So no, TA is not 5-B. He is an at least 2-B, likely 2-A being, for having created that many universes. Though whether he stays at 2-A or goes back to 2-B, is another point as we'r gonna need the original translations or keep him at "At least 2-B, likely 2-A", untill we find the raw scans and see if the word means strictly infinity or endless.
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I agree that every combination of choices made by humans is 2-B. Pretty good for 2-B, but 2-B still.
Making timelines out of possible human choices and their numbers entails... Well, a number. It can't reach infinity for the same reason you can't go High 1-B by climbing dimensions infinitely or something to that effect: Regardless of how high you go or how much your numbers increase, you will never reach infinity.
Making timelines out of possible human choices and their numbers entails... Well, a number. It can't reach infinity for the same reason you can't go High 1-B by climbing dimensions infinitely or something to that effect: Regardless of how high you go or how much your numbers increase, you will never reach infinity.
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- #154
Well yes, TA's original tier was 2-B, though it'd be best to wait untill we find the original raw scans and translate from that.FateAlbane said:
You think a 2-B, likely 2-A would be fine untill we find that? (Since some definitions of endless actually mean strictly infinity according to ALRF, which is why i think we should find the original raw scans.
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No worries, I was just saying my general opinion/impression. o/ I remain neutral on the tier. But I agree that that info could also help here.Firephoenixearl said:
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A multiverse based on "all possibilities" is just 2-B.
It's a very large finite number, but it is still finite.
It isn't even the largest 2-B multiverse possible, that would go to the multiverse that never stops growing, that is stuck in an infinite loop, infinitely creating universes forever.
While the Many Worlds Interpretation would produce a staggering amount of universes, the number of possibilities are indeed limited.
So The Archiver would just be 2-B, never a "likely 2-A".
It's a very large finite number, but it is still finite.
It isn't even the largest 2-B multiverse possible, that would go to the multiverse that never stops growing, that is stuck in an infinite loop, infinitely creating universes forever.
While the Many Worlds Interpretation would produce a staggering amount of universes, the number of possibilities are indeed limited.
So The Archiver would just be 2-B, never a "likely 2-A".
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- #157
We need the scans as Countless and Endless are questionable translations. We need the scans to see whether they really mean countless/endless or down right infinite. Untill we do that we can't be fully sure on how it works.Warren Valion said:
Also Stephen Hawking's theory of the multiverse is infinite universes.
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If the multiverse is based on probability and possibility, then it's 2-B. All possibilities are a finite number.Firephoenixearl said:
Since the universe beginning and ending is a finite amount of time, there are a limited amount of possible choices that fate can take, it is finite. Despite people saying it is infinite.
You would be going against logic to put your faith in the words of a fictional character who probably doesn't give a shit on how big the multiverse is.
And what does it matter if Stephen Hawking had a theory about infinite universes? Stephen Hawking wasn't an omniscient god with cosmic awareness, he was a scientist that made theories on the multiverse. Applying the most basic principles of science on the grandest scale, he made inferences based on his observations, and a lot of the time, people who make inferences, make mistakes or are completely wrong.
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- #159
Well yes and no. If the scans specifically state "infinite" TA stays at 2-A because there is a clear cut scan saying it's infinite. If the scan goes to "endless" then yes TA is going to 2-B, let's not make any more pointless arguing. The scan is what will put an end to all this, especially since the archiver embodies all the possible futures which also have been defined as countless or endless (don't remember) which is why we need the scan to prove what exact word is being used.
Like Stephen, everything else is just a theory. There are no "right or wrong theories" when they are just based on opinions/ideas/speculations.
Anyway im a bit tired of this, best leave this as it is untill someone gets their hands on a raw scan, or change it to 2-B likely 2-A, untill we get the scan.
Like Stephen, everything else is just a theory. There are no "right or wrong theories" when they are just based on opinions/ideas/speculations.
Anyway im a bit tired of this, best leave this as it is untill someone gets their hands on a raw scan, or change it to 2-B likely 2-A, untill we get the scan.
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