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The Archiver's Tier

Ok i'll put this here for context:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-L-TbFY1n...nDk0WkoUx8rcTNjfxXso1l1uSyAwCHMYCw/s0/012.png

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-G3h3nHCG...I4nLAQ-2-_eAOQNOYV7kaDW8C8BgCHMYCw/s0/013.png

I rechecked and it is stated to be "our space-time will collapse". And they stated they would destroy all of Ura Shinjuku (Scalable Town Level up to city or mountain level feat someone could clarify that up for me, since IIRC Ura Shinjuku is just the virtual copy of the Real Life Shinjuku, i'd be fine with this stat scaling), then Low 2-C via chain destruction, am a bit sceptic on this since it doesn't portray The Infinity Fortress to be something with Universal durability but rather just the basis for the world, since the world is information, destroying the source of all that would destroy the entire universe, though i don't think it is scalable.

So IMO at best this would be a "Possibly low 2-C via chain destruction" if it's applicable.
 
To be honest, the infinity fortress not having multiversal+ durability despite embodies the infinite universes doesn't make any sense.

Assuming, this is the case, the fact that its destruction can destroy a universe's space-time is still applicable.
 
So should we apply the changes then? Though the low 2-C Raitei wouldn't be scalable since he's not doing it himself, or would it be scalable for the same reasons? Example

Ban Midou: 9-B| Low 2-C through chain destruction

Justification: Should be comparable or superior to Raitei Ginji who could destroy the infinity fortress resulting in the destruction of the entire space-time.

Key: Base| Demon Arm
 
Ok then the tier would be:

Ginji Amano: 9-B| Unknown, Possibly low 2-C | Unknown, At least 7-C, Possibly low 2-C | 2-A

Justification: Comparable to Ban | Was going to destroy the Infinity Fortress which is the basis of a universe | Stronger than before | Comparable or superior to The Archiver

Key: Base | Raitei | Lord Of Creation | True Lord of Creation

Ban Midou: 9-B, Unknown with Asclepius | Unknown, At least 7-C, Possibly low 2-C | Unknown, Possibly low 2-C

Justification: Can smash people through walls, destroy concrete pillars etc, Unknown with asclepius| Could match and surpass Raitei Ginji | Stronger than before

Key: Base | Demon Arm | Angel Arm

Akabane Kuroudo: 9-C | Unknown, At least 7-C, Possibly Low 2-C

Justification: Can slice people's skulls, should be comparable to Ginji phyically (Ginji's 9-B key is through lighting attacks) | Matched Ban's Angel arm blow for blow

Key: First Encounter| EoS

The Voodoo King: Unknown, At least 7-C, Possibly Low 2-C

Justification: Equal to Lord of Creation Ginji

So these are the main dudes who scale (besides Masaki). But having 4 people be low universe level from a "chain reaction" and without a concrete feat and a bit of assumption on Infinity Fortress' durability doesn't feel right.
 
Also does 7-C seem reasonable for these feats?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:Lucifer's_Summon.jpg

http://a.fanfox.net/store/manga/36/...fe97d04680098d999560248003e957&ttl=1540926000

http://a.fanfox.net/store/manga/36/...fc416d0809152aec3237c52b058773&ttl=1540926000

And Paul stating that Miroku (somone comparable to these guys) could bring down the whole beltline which should be in size comparable to a town. As it shouldn't be much smaller than lower town which takes up a fair amount of Ura-Shinjuku.
 
But the kuroudo akabane would be one of the most powerful, since he, Ginji and the Kagami are anomalies inside the verse of get backers. Akabane is one of the scientists who helped to create the file and just like Ginji's mother he has the option of controlling or destroying the FILE.
 
Ban is canonically the single most powerful person alive in Get Backers (the 2 ppl who are stronger than him are a system and a dead woman so yeah)

Akabane stated that he learned his limits when Ban beat him. Ban is far superior to Ginji (except when he gains the ability to rewrite the archvier, which isn't rly more power, he just gets the ability to re-write the mother system, he just does his stuff through the archiver, he's still weaker than Ban otherwise).

The Archiver and Witch Queen are the only ones more powerful than Ban. The Archiver is a system so he doesn't rly count. The Witch Queen basically slapped everyone and sealed the 2 worlds.

Ban is otherwise the strongest character.
 
Putting this here to remind myself to check it out later tonight.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Universe Level+ is not gonna happen. Beltline was stated to have a different time stream, not that it is a different space-time (universe).
Multiverse Level+ Raitei is a bit eh. Not that it's wrong, it's just through chain reaction. It's because of this:

Raitei gets power from The Archiver

Masaki also gains a ton of power.

If they were to clash they would destroy "Infinity Fortress" which is the basis of the whole virtual world. So if that were to be destroyed the entire virtual world would be gone along with it.

It's not that "they" can do it, they can just trigger a sequence that can do that feat. Think of destroying a big 1 story house by destroying it's supporting pillars so that it falls under it's own weight. Yes you did destroy the house technically though, Physics was the one that brought it down, you only helped.

It's just a chain reaction so it shouldn't count. Imma let Ant decide on whether this counts or not.
Click to expand...
@Wok, this is the only in question part rn. Can you help with this? It's a chain reaction (They would destroy the basis of a universe [which is a castle] and that would result in the destruction of the universe), would that be applicable in AP?
 
Pretty sure we don't do chain reaction feats, look at bleach.

I'd be up to see like the full context of the scene though. If it's already posted, just tell me that.

Sorry for my sporadic replying after saying I was gonna eval this. I've had a lot of schoolwork and tests pop up since it's last week before break for me.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Ok i'll put this here for context:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-L-TbFY1n...nDk0WkoUx8rcTNjfxXso1l1uSyAwCHMYCw/s0/012.png

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-G3h3nHCG...I4nLAQ-2-_eAOQNOYV7kaDW8C8BgCHMYCw/s0/013.png

I rechecked and it is stated to be "our space-time will collapse". And they stated they would destroy all of Ura Shinjuku (Scalable Town Level up to city or mountain level feat someone could clarify that up for me, since IIRC Ura Shinjuku is just the virtual copy of the Real Life Shinjuku, i'd be fine with this stat scaling), then Low 2-C via chain destruction, am a bit sceptic on this since it doesn't portray The Infinity Fortress to be something with Universal durability but rather just the basis for the world, since the world is information, destroying the source of all that would destroy the entire universe, though i don't think it is scalable.

So IMO at best this would be a "Possibly low 2-C via chain destruction" if it's applicable.
Click to expand...
@Wok here is context on it.

I know we don't do chain reaction feats, but Monarch said:

Chain reactions generally aren't used as AP, but if this infinity fortress is sustaining a universe such that its destruction would cause the universe to die, I would think that destroying the infinity fortress would be much like destroying a character with that much durability.

Which is what is driving the "should we add it or not" point.
 
Nedge1000 said:
Firephoenixearl, if it is Chain reaction == Environmental Destruction then it is not combat applicable.
Click to expand...
Yes i know. It is Chain Reaction, though we are now discussing whether the basis of a universe (Infinity Fortress which is basically sustaining a universe to a point where the universe would be destroyed if it was destroyed) would have universal durability.
 
The safest answer is the PIS if the Infinite Fortress is really sustained the multiverse than this explosion wouldn't destroy unless it was 2-A.
 
Not exactly PIS. The universe cannot exist without Infinity Fortress, if IF is destroyed then the universe ceases to exist. It has nothing to do with PIS.

Also it's low 2-C not 2-A. It would destroy the entire space-time (universe) not the entire virtual world.
 
Ok so i applied the 7-C and low 2-C changes. The 7-C seems a fine estimation tbh. 7-B and 7-A Ban seemed a bit streched (untill a feat that can be calced is done 7-C should be fine).

Check out the Low 2-C changes though. Here are the profiles that recieved the changes, tell me if it's fine:

Ginji Amano

Ban Midou

Akabane Kuroudo

The Voodoo King

I tried to give a good explanation of why that would be low 2-C, but do check it out and evaluate it.
 
Tbh, i still don't understand how endless became infinite. Context doesn't help that it's just a big ass amount of numbers. Period

Might come back later for this, but now hitting the bed
 
The Infinite Spin downgrade thread gave me an idea:

Does anyone have the original Japanese scans, so that we can determine whether "endless" is actually "countless, or outright "infinite"?
 
Endless and Infinite in our case mean the same thing. Because we just need the "total number" in totals endless = infinity.

Endless = Either infinte or just "eventually infinite".

In our case both give the 2-A rating as The Archiver embodes all possibilities, even those that are to come. It's just 1 of those few cases where endless = infinite.
 
1) Yes, but the original Japanese scan may either be "countless" or "infinite" ("Mugen" is "infinite" in Japanese, I think).

2) Eventually infinite doesn't really mean anything. It's either infinitely expanding (which would be 2-B), or simply infinite (which would be 2-A).
 
DMB 1 said:
1) Yes, but the original Japanese scan may either be "countless" or "infinite" ("Mugen" is "infinite" in Japanese, I think).
2) Eventually infinite doesn't really mean anything. It's either infinitely expanding (which would be 2-B), or simply infinite (which would be 2-A).
Click to expand...
1) Idk

2) Eventually Infinite would mean that "eventually the world will reach Infinite choices". But the archiver already embodies all possible choices and possibilities. He doesn't grow with every choice there is, he is a static program that already has all the choices. The choices will grow, The Archiver will not as he already embodies all possibilities including the ones that are to come.
 
Yes Mugen means strictly infinite. It has no other meaning than infinity
 
This is no different from Alaya creating universes through humanity dreams.

It will forever cand ever create an ever increasing dreams of humanity. It's really really high 2-B.

This is no different ftom Archiver embodying all these choices that springs forth other universes which brings more universes as more choices as made. An ever increasing number of universes. 2-B but not 2-A

I have some other problems with how we use some feats/hax but i'll leave that for later
 
No, the archiver embodies all possibilites from a universe it doesn't contain. I'll give you some context.

Ther is the Real World which decided to create this Archiver system which would then give birth to a virtual world. The Archiver was built to embody all possibilities (including the future possibilities as the archvier doesn't grow, and neither does the world the archiver embodies) in the real world, and create a universe for each of these combination of possibilities.

If we take endless possibilities to the point where they "end" it would mean infinite. Which is exactly what the archiver is, a system that contains all possibilties from the real world, every possibility that has happened and that hasn't happened. If it were an evergrowing number, then the archiver would be an ever growing system eventually reaching infinity (after an infinite amount of time), but The Archiver was never stated to be an ever growing system and neither was it stated that the world itself is continuosly growing, coupled with Ginji's mother (which for all intents and purpouses is omniscient in our case as she is the creator of The Archiver) saying that he was built to embody all possibilities. Makes the archiver "the result of endless choices" which is infinite.
 
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