GetBackers Space-Time Transcendence and Meaning CRT

[Firephoenixearl]

Summary

So as i've told people multiple times there are dozens of statements about time-space transcendence in GetBackers and some weird feats to go along with them. But it's pretty much impossible for me to figure out what kind of power they give cus they sure as hell do not look like Low 2-C kind of transcendence.

Statements/Feats
Toshiki distorting space by merely existing (as he was practically just standing there) after becoming part of Voodoo king's crew.

Ban distorting the space from the beltline using his Devil Arm.

Ginji breaking through space-time and becoming "younger" through sheerly "existing beyond time"

Ginji exists outside of time and space that's why stuff like future, past and "remembering" are meaningless to him as he doesn't percieve past as "past", as for him it had never happened

Ginji pulled Raitei from across time and space (to absorb the negative feelings).

Yuuri's movements having a different visual look compared to normal movement and same for Ban in their 2nd fight inside the Beltline.

Akabane cutting through dimensions

Paul Wan same as Ginji got back to his "young" self via "mastering IF's flow of time" and "go upstream"

Paul has transcended time and space.

Paul goes back from his prime to his old/current self without effort, by simply willing it

Ginji can ride Masaki's light between the gaps in space-time

The witch queen stating that if the members of the brain trust are defeated the world itself will break.

Makubex interfered with the phase of the Archiver virtual spacetime and sheltered the girl in hyperspace. And Raitei's plasma broke through the hyperspace.

People like Kagami, Vodoo King, Masaki don't exist in the same "time" as the others

The ogre battle disrupting space-time to a point where the boundry between life and death is getting disrupted (Himiko's dead brother showed up and talked some sense into her, and while i would just say it's some spiritual stuff where she just sees his spirit or remembers her brother, but the fact that Kagami is also seeing her brother proves he is actually there).

The Archiver calls Kagami "transcendential".

Now to elaborate on Kagami's transcendence. He's fighting with Ban and he states that even among other brain trust members he is "special" (probably means much stronger than the others), and says that "Ban (who is not a transcendential being) and Him inhabit different time-frames". Kagami restates that he exists in a different time frame that's why Ban isn't able to follow his movements and neither should he be able to initiate a counter attack

Kagami considers it "outrageous" for someone like Ban who isn't "transcendential" to manage to hurt him. And there is also the "ban is stopped part" just for good measure. And after Ban manages to cut his arm off there is still the same reaction on Kagami and even goes as far as to call the feat "impossible".

Ban tears down the dimensional fabric using the Devil Arm

Conclusion
I believe these are all the statements/feats. Now what are these? They seem like a form of Time and Space hax along with maybe some form of Acausality. I am not sure.

So i am really not sure, so let's discuss this.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

It's definitely a form of time space manipulation. It is similar to Overshadowed characters in Okage: Shadow King.

Overshadowed: As an Overshadowed, the real Marlene is no longer is apart of reality, existing outside of it completely, unable to be seen, heard or interacted with by those who exist within reality. They remain completely unnoticed, with the world seeing them as though they are not there, as beings who are considered "ineffectual". The longer they stay in this state the stronger it becomes.

I'm not good with deciding these things but these guys would have limited Time and or Space Manipulation (Just explain what they can do with it aka Pual can reverse time on himself).

I'm not sure about Acausality (I've been trying to get type 4 for Overshadowed in Okage) but it sounds like type 4 acausality since they aren't effected by time the same and are in a different space but again, I'm not good with stuff like this so I won't be much help sadly.

 

[Zencha9]

this sounds like passive space&time distortion but i'm not sure

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Lord

Ok so:

Acausality type 4

Resistance to time and space hax.

Time and space hax.

Sounds about right? (In your opinion)

As for acausality to overshadowed, it doesn't really sound like acausality for them, as they do not exist beyond/different time from everyone else.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

In my opinion yeah.

For the Overshadowed thing, when I put reality, it's talking about time and space, they are unaffected by the world's time resets. However I don't want to derail your thread talking about them.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Do you know who would be a good person to ask about these?

Maybe DontTalkDT?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

DontTalkDT or Antoniofer maybe.

 

[GyroNutz]

Acausality type 4 is specifically for different types of causality, not different flows of time. I do agree with resistance to (as well as) space-time manipulation

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok ty for the input.

 

[Elizhaa]

Depending on the contexts, existence in a different flows of time have being accepted Acausality Type 4 ; this has been applied where there are elaborations how the casual systems is different to a charaters or elaboration on how a characters exist outside standard time.

In this case, though, I think the statements are too vague for Acausality Type 4 and would qualify only for Space-Time Manipulation and resistance to it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So we have 4 people voting on Time-Space Hax + Resistance to them (without including me).

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Though there is something that doesn't fit, these scans:

Kagami considers it "outrageous" for someone like Ban who isn't "transcendential" to manage to hurt him. And there is also the "ban is stopped part" just for good measure (which seems to be Ban being actually stopped in time from his perspective). And after Ban manages to cut his arm off there is still the same reaction on Kagami and even goes as far as to call the feat "impossible".

Yuuri's movements having a different visual look compared to normal movement and same for Ban in their 2nd fight inside the Beltline.

says that "Ban (who is not a transcendential being) and Him inhabit different time-frames". Kagami restates that he exists in a different time frame that's why Ban isn't able to follow his movements and neither should he be able to initiate a counter attack

More fight between Ban and Kagami.

So it sounds like it also gives a....different type of speed. From Kagami vs Ban it almost looks like Infinite Speed from non transcendential perspective but i am not sure. There are probably more scans, i'll see what i can find.

 

[GyroNutz]

Depending on the contexts, existence in a different flows of time have being accepted Acausality Type 4 ; this has been applied where there are elaborations how the casual systems is different to a charaters or elaboration on how a characters exist outside standard time.

Sure, but there'd still have to be specific mentions of said causal system.

As for the other scans, I'm not too sure what to make of them. Ban appearing frozen for a moment would be the closest thing to suggest infinite speed, but otherwise it could be argued to be just them experiencing time differently. Again, not too sure.

Last link doesn't work btw.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Here is the last link.

 

[Elizhaa]

@GyroNutz, more or less, yeah

@Earl, the links seem to point a form of Time hax, to me; infinite speed needed to be more specific evidence to valid, to me.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yeah but it doesn't seem like he stopped time for Ban, more like, Ban seems stopped for him

This the kind of fucky stuff that goes on with GetBackers.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Another case of movement during fighting. However this does not come from people who are transcendentials.

Here, here.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Bump

 

[Elizhaa]

Another case of movement during fighting. However this does not come from people who are transcendentials.
Here, here.

I think those scans support a form of time hax.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok, so the ultimate tally is:

Time/Space hax + Resistance to those for all scans.

How many more staff members should i call here?

 

[GyroNutz]

One or two, I'd personally want another opinion on this

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Anyone who you'd think would be good to call here?

 

[GyroNutz]

Eh, no one in particular. You can find staff who contributed recently here though.

 

[RM97]

I've already talked about this in the last thread. It's mostly just Space-Time hax with resistances to it along with some Acausality thrown around especially for a Transcendental like Akabane

 

[Firephoenixearl]

What type do you think the Acausality would be?

 

[RM97]

Very likely Type 4 since Akabane (Along with Prof. Makube) was a Variable in Archiver's plan of creating a new future and didn't even care about it as he wasn't bound to the rules and works of the Archiver. This goes hand in hand with how he exists in a different Time Flow than the inhabitants of GB.

Though I'm specifically referring to Akabane and Ginji's mom. I'm neutral about others getting Acausality.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I mean acausality would go to all transcendentials as they're all the same basically. Kagami is the same as Akabane, except i believe Kagami no longer exists in the real world, but that doesn't really matter as the real world people can't interact nor matter with people's standings in the virtual world.

Though i do agree for type 4.

 

[RM97]

Thing is, there was implications that Kagami's Defeat against Ban was a part of the Archiver's Plan for a new future despite Kagami being a Transcendental which was even supported by Akabane and Prof Makube's dialogues iirc.

But like I said, I'm neutral on it. They can get Acausality or not, it's up to what you guys think. What matters is Dr. Jackal should def get Type 4 for being a variable in Archiver's plan of Project Qualia on top of existing in a different time flow like other Transcendentals.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yes, but the archiver himself did not interfere in the fight. The idea was that he left Kagami in his own belief that the mirrorring was perfect. When was there was a flaw in the mirror effect that lead him to get stomped by Ban, because the attacks were getting reflected and what not.

 

[RM97]

Never said anything about Archiver interfering in the fight. Just that there's implications that he planned/wrote everything about Ogre Battle so that Kagami would eventually end up being defeated by Ban in that battle due to Kagami think that his Dimensional Surfactant has 100% reflections from the very beginning.

Again, I'm still neutral on other Transcendental peeps getting Acausality or not. It's w.e.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Well there are a lot of scans, I could go one by one if you want, but almost all of them show some form of Space-Time Manipulation, Time Travel or Dimensional Travel.

With the exception being a couple of scans.

Yuuri's movements having a different visual look compared to normal movement and same for Ban in their 2nd fight inside the Beltline.
Now this taken at face value, and assuming it means that Yuuri actually took control of the whole timeline. It would give them Low 2-C, but that alone without anything else, probably won't cut it.

People like Kagami, Vodoo King, Masaki don't exist in the same "time" as the others
Now to elaborate on Kagami's transcendence. He's fighting with Ban and he states that even among other brain trust members he is "special" (probably means much stronger than the others), and says that "Ban (who is not a transcendential being) and Him inhabit different time-frames". Kagami restates that he exists in a different time frame that's why Ban isn't able to follow his movements and neither should he be able to initiate a counter attack

Kagami considers it "outrageous" for someone like Ban who isn't "transcendential" to manage to hurt him. And there is also the "ban is stopped part" just for good measure. And after Ban manages to cut his arm off there is still the same reaction on Kagami and even goes as far as to call the feat "impossible".
And these scans.

Now the first one says that they exists in a different flow of time, which could mean a lot of things. But do note that they point out that his grandma's age doesn't add up with the other person's numbers.

The second scans say that the guy inhabits a different time frames.

And the last ones have the guy say "how can someone from another timeline land an attack on me?".

Now all of those together, I'll be honest don't make much sense, but I think what they're trying to say is that the transcendent guy is literally temporally dislocated from their regular timeline where the events are happening, and that he's literally in another timeline even though he's physically present in "this" one. And I think this would work better as a form of precog rather than acausality, since it's not like Ban can't physically touch him, rather that he can't catch him, as the guy himself outright says.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Another case of movement during fighting. However this does not come from people who are transcendentials.
Here, here.

@Ogbunali

Now this taken at face value, and assuming it means that Yuuri actually took control of the whole timeline. It would give them Low 2-C, but that alone without anything else, probably won't cut it.

Read these 2 scans above for more cases of this from the same guy.

About the "different timeline" it more feels like "different time frame" rather than "different universe". Considering the kind of stuff like "ban is stopped from here" or "transcend time and space". I don't think "transcend time and space" would really be a good way to word "exist in a different universe".

 

[Ogbunabali]

Considering they use "transcending time and space" to just mean time travel in a lot of the scans provided. I don't think the word "transcend" should be taken seriously.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Well i mean their "trancending time and space just to time travel" does kinda make sense, just not in by our rules.

So they "transcend time and space" and therefore disregard the time gap so they can bring their past to the present. Makes sense in a way, just not by our rules.

 

[Ogbunabali]

I agree, that's why we shouldn't apply the standard definition on what transcending time and space is considering it means a totally different thing in the verse.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I agree, that's why we shouldn't apply the standard definition on what transcending time and space is considering it means a totally different thing in the verse.

Ok, never said we should just yeet Low 2-C or Low 1-C from it.

What i meant is, "being in a different timeline" isn't really transcending time and space. So i feel like that "different timeline" could just be us misunderstanding/mistranslation. Considering pretty much every other case uses the term "time frame" or "time flow".

Not to mention even the feats don't line up. As being in a different timeline wouldn't really show "ban being stopped". Or the "You can't follow the movements of someone that exists in another time frame".

 

[Ogbunabali]

I never said you did.

Time traveling isn't really transcending time and space either. So I don't see how something being stated multiple times would be assumed to be wrong.

The feats actually line up perfectly. And I already lined them up. But I'll do so again.

>Grandma's age doesn't line up

>The guy that transcended space and time outright states that Ban "shouldn't be able to catch him". Not interact, not hit, not anything else, specifically said to catch.

>Ban not following the movements of someone who is temporally dislocated from the natural flow of time is actually how being temporally dislocated from time works.

>And every other mention of transcending time and space = time travel.

So seeing all of the feats and statements together, I don't see what else it could mean.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

>Grandma's age doesn't line up

Why is that proof for "exists in a different universe"? That's seems more proof of "exists under different rules of "time" in other words perceives a different time frame (form of type 4).

>Can't catch him

Yes because he shouldn't be able to follow his movements which is stated in the scan above. You can't catch someone you can't even follow.

>Not following the movements.

Ok but why is temporally dislocated from time "is in another universe"?

 

[Ogbunabali]

I never said in a different universe? That's just proof that she's similarly dislocated as the other guy.

Yes. Exactly.

Again, where did I said he's in a different universe?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Hmm im confused.

You said "the transcendent guy is literally temporally dislocated from their regular timeline where the events are happening"

So i am confused. "Dislocated from their regular timeline". What did you mean?