The 1-A Saint Seiya Upgrade

[TheUnshakableOne]

Imma keep this short and simple.

The Multiverse in Saint Seiya is created by every point in time and space creates a multiverse.

For example, In Saint Seiya Requiem we learn that there is an infinite number of snapshots of the present moment which are also Universe.

"Has he become an Ashura, who fights eternally to save an infinite number of presents!"

The Totality of the Saint Seiya Multiverse is about Past, present, and future creating infinite worlds. This is something that is redundant in Episode G: Assassins, and Next Dimension.

In Next Dimension; Past, and future are stated to be separate and totally different Time Axis's.

The entirety of Episode G Assassins is about past, present, and future are all different worlds. (That is over simplifying the plot but its about a multiverse invasion)

Next we have the 8th Sense and its connection to the Underworld.

First, the Underworld exist as a layer that is completely inascessible to the lower layer known as the "Living Worlds" which makes up the multiverse which is produced by all point in time, and Space being an infinite Multiverse.

Shaka is an example of an 8th Sense user, and his power due to the 8th sense "Transcends Dimensions"

This fact gets reiterated in the Lost Canvas Manga

Asmita: I felt like there was a thin membrane that went to an elevated plane on which it was and that I couldn't be able to reach.
Asmita: But now, in that moment, you are before me.
Asmita: So show me your essence ...
Asmita: ... The Eighth Sense!

Asmita: More deeply within me ...
Ilias: All those who were born on the surface and were called enlightened ...
Ilias: ... You were able to awaken the Eighth Sense through a life of meditation and prayer.
Ilias: This is what Cosmo is.
Ilias: The Eighth Sense is not exclusive to the Knights, it is a place where every living thing on Earth should be able to reach.
Ilias: The prayers and wishes that are in harmony with the universe become the Cosmos.
Ilias: ... Being able to overcome even the concepts of time and space ... And it is capable of transforming itself into a force capable of performing miracles.


Sisyphus: The Cosmos of Asmita is expanding!
Sisyphus: Expanding beyond your territory of thought ...
Asmita: It's like being released from a kind of restriction ...
Asmita: How I was able to understand the structure of this world from the beginning ...
Asmita: ... I know who I am.
Asmita: My thoughts went beyond the concepts of time and space ...
Asmita: ... There is no doubt whatsoever ...

The 8th Sense deals tied to the Underworld. You have to overcome the concepts of time and space and ascend to a whole new plane of existence. The Underworld is completely inaccessible unless you have special means to get there.

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Now the explanation on how this is Tier 1-A

Well the Living Worlds (The Multiverse) is Low 1-A.

The Set of literally all possibilities of a given system is given by the power of a set said system. In the case of spacetime itself it'd be given by the power set of 2^Aleph-0, since thats the cardinality of a continuum. Which would lead to a space with a cardinality of 2^2^aleph-0. Which is Low 1-A.

The Underworld is completley inaccessible to the lower worlds without any special priveledge and it Transcends the concepts of space and time along with Dimensions, thus is tier 1-A which also makes Chronos a higher tier of 1-A as he transcends all of this entirely.

Thus in conclusion everyone with 8th sense or higher should be Tier 1-A, and everyone with the 7th sense should have Low 1-A Hax and range.

the 8th sense gives 1-A Power.

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[StekFence]

Makes sense. Should have thought of this myself.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

All events create a future, and all points in time and space are considered an "Events"

 

[Lormac_CC]

When I saw 1-A, my heart jumped up, then I saw fun and games

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

When I saw 1-A, my heart jumped up, then I saw fun and games

give it 1 year and maybe it'll be a reality

 

[Lormac_CC]

give it 1 year and maybe it'll be a reality

Interesting

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Interesting

The Set of literally all possibilities of a given system is given by the power of a set said system. In the case of spacetime itself it'd be given by the power set of 2^Aleph-0, since thats the cardinality of a continuum. Which would lead to a space with a cardinality of 2^2^aleph-0. Which is Low 1-A.

This excerpt came from Ultima if your curious

basically every coordinate in time and space of a universe has to be a multiverse and those worlds go on to produce their own multiverse through the same way and so on and so on and so on...

which is what im looking to prove one day

 

[Lormac_CC]

This excerpt came from Ultima if your curious

basically every coordinate in time and space of a universe has to be a multiverse and those worlds go on to produce their own multiverse through the same way and so on and so on and so on...

which is what im looking to prove one day

This is basically saying every point in time produces a universe. It would be hard to prove. You would need something like a statement suggesting such a thing

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

im waiting for requiem to develop some more since its gave us some key information. waiting for additional context

basically the every present moment that passes has an infinite number snapshots of universes of that moment. that was probably explained poorly.. im sorry..

 

[Lormac_CC]

If every point in time produces a universe, that would be low 1-A not 1-A. Anyways goodluck, I am look for anime verses that can reach 1-A and 0 cause the way the downgrade of tier 1 keeps popping on the wiki, it is serious, umeniko has lost it's tier 0, demon king daimao might be downgraded as well

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

If every point in time produces a universe, that would be low 1-A not 1-A. Anyways goodluck, I am look for anime verses that can reach 1-A and 0 cause the way the downgrade of tier 1 keeps popping on the wiki, it is serious, umeniko has lost it's tier 0, demon king daimao might be downgraded as well

the 1-A would be because of the Underworld being inaccessible and transcendence over the Multiverse and it transcends all concepts of time and space and Dimensions.


the Underworld being an elevated and Higher plane that requires ascension to reach

but Tier 1 is such a confusing tier.... maybe thats not enough to qualify the UW structure as a 1-A structure idk..

 

[Lormac_CC]

the 1-A would be because of the Underworld being inaccessible and transcendence over the Multiverse and it transcends all concepts of time and space and Dimensions.


the Underworld being an elevated and Higher plane that requires ascension to reach

but Tier 1 is such a confusing tier.... maybe thats not enough to qualify the UW structure as a 1-A structure idk..

It wouldn't be enough, if it was the Underworld would be higher on the wiki right now, maybe low 1-C

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

It wouldn't be enough, if it was the Underworld would be higher on the wiki right now, maybe low 1-C

tbh it should be --__--

Like this is how i see it.

If there is 1 god per "Universe" (which i am very much aganist as there is direct statements aganist it) then Hypertimeline logic should be applied

Sho shows us that a galaxy is really a full on space-time Universe (yes it was stated in Santia sho that way)

Next Dimension reinforces that by showing us that a collection of stars are entirely separate Universes.

all thsi exist within a "Universe" called a "MacroCosmo"

which was created at "the Big Bang."

but even without that

The "Underworld" exist within the same world as the Living World, and the Underworld is shown to be a separate Universe with its own Time Axis...


So hypertimeline logic should be validable


But most of hte information i presented never seen the light of day on the wiki until recently lol.

Cosmology blog is defiently needed.

Edit: If there is 1 god for the whole multiverse though... Which is shown, and stated, and explained... then the rating might get complicated by a solid 2-A rating is the very minimum long story short.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Sho shows us that a galaxy is really a full on space-time Universe (yes it was stated in Santia sho that way)

This part is quite complicated. It might need more prove, has galaxies been referred to in such manner before. If no then with might be similar to the nebula in Chronos dimension where the galaxies is more like a portal.

Next Dimension reinforces that by showing us that a collection of stars are entirely separate Universes

Might not really understand the context right here,

all thsi exist within a "Universe" called a "MacroCosmo"

Similar to dragon Ball

The "Underworld" exist within the same world as the Living World, and the Underworld is shown to be a separate Universe with its own Time Axis...

Does any scan points out that it actually have a different time Axis, or does the scan just say a different flow of time. Both looks similar but are different.

So hypertimeline logic should be validable

Hyper time logic is quite difficult to use on this wiki. Dragon Ball couldn't get low 1-C, even Anos. I believe there is something along the line of hypervolume where is possible for a 4D structure to contain another 4D structure due to have a bigger volume. To get on the wiki the main marco cosmo must treat the Underworld as Infinitesimal. I believe the Underworld is inside the Marco cosmo

 

[Lormac_CC]

Cosmology blog is defiently needed

Yes. Saint seiya is big verse and it needs one, I believe Mat created one

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

All events create a future, and all points in time and space are considered an "Events"

This only indicates that there are multiple possibilities in the future, but it does not mean that the world is branching out into multiple parallel worlds. Something similar was mentioned in another thread, where the 2-A for Abzu was rejected because of this. In The Lost Canvas the future is already written and they only follow one path to that future, that's why the goal of Kairos was to avoid that future and try to change it.

That's why it's better to avoid mentioning The Lost Canvas in the cosmology blog, because some parts may cause confusion.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

This part is quite complicated. It might need more prove, has galaxies been referred to in such manner before. If no then with might be similar to the nebula in Chronos dimension where the galaxies is more like a portal.

there is quiet a bit of context here actually lol. We first see Dysnomnia talking about the creation of new universes from her domain which sees a finite amount of worlds. As she is talking about it Sho gets swallowed up by a Galaxy. 3 or 4 chapters later we get context saying that the Eris created that Galaxy. The Goddess Eris calls it both a Galaxy and a "Spacetime Universe" Yes, she calles it a exactly as i said it a "Spacetime Universe."

Might not really understand the context right here

Im referring to Chronos here. When he sends Athena to a "Past" we are told by 2 character that Athena is "Coming from a far away Dimension." 90 chapter later we are told that the past dimension and the future dimension are separate Time Axis's so when you combine both those scans. It basically says a "Far away dimension with a separate time axis." Whcih implies a whole other universe.

This basically means that the nubelas within Chronos are different Universes in the multiverse.

Meanwhile Shijama and Shaka are casually creating a whole new dimension that can the destruction and creation of countless Universes inside an already existing universe lmao

Similar to dragon Ball

somtimes its surprising at how similar they can be lol

Does any scan points out that it actually have a different time Axis, or does the scan just say a different flow of time. Both looks similar but are different.

yes. I'll put it in list format

1.) We are shown that they are separate dimensions
2.) The UW requires ascension to reach as it is a higher plane
3.) You need to overcome the concept of space and time to reach the UW
4.) To reach the UW you have to escape a thin membrane of the Universe to reach it.
5.) it is considered a "realm of the gods" which has a different flow of time

Hyper time logic is quite difficult to use on this wiki. Dragon Ball couldn't get low 1-C, even Anos. I believe there is something along the line of hypervolume where is possible for a 4D structure to contain another 4D structure due to have a bigger volume. To get it the wiki the main marco cosmo must treat the Underworld as Infinitesimal.

Gr provided context saying the Universe is Infinite and holds a multitude of dimensions.

but hypervolume is something hard to understand...

Though Chronos does treat the Underworld as something infinitisemal but i need a starting point to understand how to prove that.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

This only indicates that there are multiple possibilities in the future, but it does not mean that the world is branching out into multiple parallel worlds. Something similar was mentioned in another thread, where the 2-A for Abzu was rejected because of this. In The Lost Canvas the future is already written and they only follow one path to that future, that's why the goal of Kairos was to avoid that future and try to change it.

Eh i could debate abzu but im just not feeling up to it right now. a lot happening irl.

That's why it's better to avoid mentioning The Lost Canvas in the cosmology blog, because some parts may cause confusion.

Still canon and usable. Thats jsut diry and shady wanting to leave it out.

 

[Lormac_CC]

All events create a future, and all points in time and space are considered an "Events"

This isn't really a good example, nothing really points out that universes are being created. It is more like consequences of the present makes up the future.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

This isn't really a good example, nothing really points out that universes are being created. It is more like consequences of the present makes up the future.

im jsut wanking using that scan lmao Fun and Games

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Still canon and usable. Thats jsut diry and shady wanting to leave it out.

It is a parallel universe and has some different descriptions with the other series, although in a general cosmology blog for the verse it could be used. But it is better to avoid this, because of those different descriptions. And better to focus on the descriptions of Sho, Assassin, Requiem and Next Dimension that give a better description about the multiverse of the franchise.

there is quiet a bit of context here actually lol. We first see Dysnomnia talking about the creation of new universes from her domain which sees a finite amount of worlds. As she is talking about it Sho gets swallowed up by a Galaxy. 3 or 4 chapters later we get context saying that the Eris created that Galaxy. The Goddess Eris calls it both a Galaxy and a "Spacetime Universe" Yes, she calles it a exactly as i said it a "Spacetime Universe."

One detail on this. Eris never called the galaxy a universe. Shoko is the one who says it is a galaxy, when she was trapped inside the dimensional distortion in the depths of Eden. And this can only be a portal in the shape of a galaxy, and it is not described as space and time either. A portal that sent Shoko to the universe that Eris created for her.

This is what you need to avoid for the topic to be rejected, and you also need to confirm the translation in the Japanese scans.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

One detail on this. Eris never called the galaxy a universe. Shoko is the one who says it is a galaxy, when she was trapped inside the dimensional distortion in the depths of Eden. And this can only be a portal in the shape of a galaxy, and it is not described as space and time either. A portal that sent Shoko to the universe that Eris created for her.

This is what you need to avoid for the topic to be rejected, and you also need to confirm the translation in the Japanese scans.

the japanese translations i have call it a space-time universe, but meh

Edit: it also says that Eris created the whole thing but meh

 

[Saiyan40009]

so every instant in time has creates infinite universes lancelot agrees

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

the japanese translations i have call it a space-time universe, but meh

This is not so.

General Saint Seiya Discussion Thread: Ultimate Galaxian Quality #2

New Requiem Chapter! whats with Aldebaran's horn? anyone can give us a summary?

www.fanverse.org

Dysnomia explains to Shaka that a new universe is being born (a reference to the world/universe that Eris created for her sister), when the two of them are in the dimension where Dysnomia trapped Shaka with his Reverse of Universe. But this does not mean that this universe is represented as a galaxy. And the galaxy that traps Shoko inside the dimension in the depths of Eden only functions as a portal to another universe.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Eris created that Galaxy. The Goddess Eris calls it both a Galaxy and a "Spacetime Universe" Yes, she calles it a exactly as i said it a "Spacetime Universe."

Well that is a good explanation for Eris Galaxy. If it did specify the creator, it would mean that Galaxy is for Eris and the Galaxy is a space time. It wouldn't really prove that all galaxies are space time

Im referring to Chronos here. When he sends Athena to a "Past" we are told by 2 character that Athena is "Coming from a far away Dimension." 90 chapter later we are told that the past dimension and the future dimension are separate Time Axis's so when you combine both those scans. It basically says a "Far away dimension with a separate time axis." Whcih implies a whole other universe

The future and the past are separate universes, interesting

This basically means that the nubelas within Chronos are different Universes in the multiverse

Not really sure on this one, Athena is coming from the past which is basically a different universe to the future which is also a universe. There is nothing like past or future Chronos. I believe Chronos embodies everything. His nebula sends Athena to the future. Except you want to say does nebula are the past

You need to overcome the concept of space and time to reach the UW

This should be enough to make it a different space time

Gr provided context saying the Universe is Infinite and holds a multitude of dimensions.

but hypervolume is something hard to understand...

It is hard to understand. Not sure if it would work. Anos has something similar.

Though Chronos does treat the Underworld as something infinitisemal but i need a starting point to understand how to prove that

This could work, is Chronos in a macro Cosmo?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Not really sure on this one, Athena is coming from the past which is basically a different universe to the future which is also a universe. There is nothing like past or future Chronos. I believe Chronos embodies everything. His nebula sends Athena to the future. Except you want to say does nebula are the past

Well Athena wanted to go into the past to alter history, but spreaking truthfully the entire plot of ND makes no sense lmao. nothing makes sense in ND.

Chronos does comment that the Nubelas could make you end up in the a different past or a different future if you so much as put even a toe in one.|

Ulimately what im trying to say here is that there is implications of the "Nubelas" being different Timelines and Eras

This could work, is Chronos in a macro Cosmo?

he is the macrocosmo if that makes sense.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

This fact gets reiterated in the Lost Canvas Manga

This translation is incorrect, because it never says that he must transcend the concepts of time and space, it only says that he is transcending time and space, but it is in a mental aspect, because the fight is only an illusion or a mental plane. So you have to explain the context behind that description.

Although the Underworld is treated as a different time-space from the universe, because of this it is not affected by the destruction of the time and space in the universe that happens in Next Dimension.

Well Athena wanted to go into the past to alter history, but spreaking truthfully the entire plot of ND makes no sense lmao. nothing makes sense in ND.

Chronos does comment that the Nubelas could make you end up in the a different past or a different future if you so much as put even a toe in one.|

Ulimately what im trying to say here is that there is implications of the "Nubelas" being different Timelines and Eras

Chronos only says that these nebulae could send Athena to another era or time.

This only confirms that the nebulae are portals to other epochs of the universe.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

oh the ideas im being given lol

Thank you

 

[Lormac_CC]

but spreaking truthfully the entire plot of ND makes no sense lmao

Chronos does comment that the Nubelas could make you end up in the a different past or a different futur

Just as I suspected. Does nebula are neither past or future, they are similar to Chronos.

he is the macrocosmo if that makes sense

You should clarify from Ultima, if he was referring to the space or a character. Like the Marco cosmo space must treat the Underworld as Infinitesimal

 

[Lormac_CC]

it only says that he is transcending time and space, but it is in a mental aspect, because the whole struggle is only an illusion or a mental plane

Meh , saint seiya is confusing. Transcending space and time on this wiki usually mean two things, either low 1-C or traveling outside the reach of a space time, now I am seeing mental plane

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Just as I suspected. Does nebula are neither past or future, they are similar to Chronos.

They exist in side of him

You should clarify from Ultima, if he was referring to the space or a character. Like the Marco cosmo space must treat the Underworld as Infinitesimal

more than likely its the space that has too.

Meh l, saint seiya is confusing. Transcending space and time on this wiki usually mean two things, either low 1-C or traveling outside the reach of a space time, now I am seeing mental plane

A mental plane is unimportant however there is contradictions to this. Such as Sisyphus witnessing this whole thing despite not having the 8th sense. He knew it existed, but to my knowledge he never had it.

This entire scene is talking about the 8th sense and its relation to the Underworld. so mental scape or not is unimportant. its the relation of the 8th sense and the further cosmological building of the Underworld that is important here. everything else isn't important in the slightest

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

A mental plane is unimportant however there is contradictions to this. Such as Sisyphus witnessing this whole thing despite not having the 8th sense.

This entire scene is talking about the 8th sense and its relation to the Underworld. so mental scape or not is unimportant

Sysiphus was close to the 8th Sense because of his training with Ilias, so Ilias could only communicate with Asmita and Sysiphus. The fight takes place on a mental plane, an illusion created by Ilias to force them to reach the 8th Sense. Even at the end of the fight we can see that Asmita's and Sysiphus' armors have no damage, and the damage that Ilias caused them was just an illusion.

 

[Lormac_CC]

They exist in side of him

Then they aren't really universes.

more than likely its the space that has too

Agree. It should be cause when Anos supporters were planning low 1-C upgrade, they where more concerned with the space/timeline (Silver sea) which was holding the timelines

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Then they aren't really universes.

how so?

 

[Lormac_CC]

how so?

You pointed out that they are used to send anyone either to the past or future. Now it is believed that Athena was going to the past dimension from the future dimension. Nebula aren't Dimension, I am not even sure they are even in a Dimension. The scan of Athena coming from a far away Dimension would mean that she his coming from the future dimension to the past dimension. Nebula only serve as a gateway

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

yeah thats the point of the Saint Seiya Cosmology.... Past, present, future their all parralel worlds..

Shura also explains this to us. that all these exist in a single Universe..

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Asmita says that this field was created by the thoughts of Ilias and that is why he had to raise his consciousness to the same level as Ilias.

Spoiler

It is also said that it was a battle of thoughts, the thought of Asmita against the thought of Ilias, so they were fighting on a mental plane.

Spoiler

At the end of the fight, Asmita manages to raise his consciousness to the same level as Ilias. In this part is when Asmita says that his thoughts are overcoming time and space, not that he physically overcomes time and space, and he is only overcoming this on a mental plane, because he reached a new level of comprehension of the universe.

Spoiler

That's why I tell you not to use Lost Canvas when talking about the multiverse, because this has nothing to do with the planes of existence used in this Wiki. This is a philosophical description about the concept of man's enlightenment, and how they raise their consciousness to reach a new point of view of the universe and the nature of the world.

 

[Lormac_CC]

yeah thats the point of the Saint Seiya Cosmology.... Past, present, future their all parralel worlds..

Shura also explains this to us. that all these exist in a single Universe..

This is pretty interesting, a solid 2-B or even low 1-C.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

for some reason it won't let me quote Lancelots stuff

but with the whole Illias asmit and sisyphus thing. What im looking at and am interested in is the Cosmological building of the 8th sense and the Underworld. Not the anything else.

They explain in more detail what the 8th sense is what it does, why it does it, how it does it, and answers those question in addition too it explains more about its relation to the Cosmological structure of the Underworld.....

Its literally stated that at thsi point you enter the plane of the souls

"Asmita: For you who do not have a physical body, the removal of the seven senses will leave you on the plane of souls!"

everything else is irrelevant..

Saying it contributes nothing to cosmological structure is blatant headcanon as you always twist context. Me and many other users have called you out on purposely lying and manipulating context. You always end up contradicting yourself too saying you believe X-Thing then you change it later to a Y-thing often in the same thread even. I find you very suspicious. I am not going to lie about that or sugar coat it.

You also have the tendency to edit your comments long after they been debated. Adding in new things that is several post up so no one can see it then claim. "YOU DIDN"T SEE ANSWER THIS THOUGH!"

the headcanon and purpose decontexualization its getting annoying at this point.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

but with the whole Illias asmit and sisyphus thing. What im looking at and am interested in is the Cosmological building of the 8th sense and the Underworld. Not the anything else.

They explain in more detail what the 8th sense is what it does, why it does it, how it does it, and answers those question in addition too it explains more about its relation to the Cosmological structure of the Underworld.....

This is the problem, it does not provide anything about the Underworld, it only indicates that the Underworld is a different dimension and that the 8th sense is needed to see in that world, because this sense allows the Saints to see in other dimensions such as the Underworld.