Rabbit2002
She/Her- 2,631
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it seem really intresting
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The 1-A Saint Seiya Upgrade
- Thread starter TheUnshakableOne
- Start date
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opinion rejected, disagree FRA
Tier 0 better
Tier 0 better
Hasty12345
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agree with tier 0 FRA
Lormac_CC
He/Him- 2,376
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This perfectly discribe the cosmology.
Chronos is on Mount Olympus. He exists where both past present and future meets. There are multiple future, fate of things in the past can't be changed. There are Infinite fate but only one can be made into reality. So it is a 2-A multiverse. The Multiverse is similar to MCU what if but just that the world s might already exist
Now the idea that a universe can contain worlds within it doesn't add up with the other scans you provided. Nothing really backs it up. I believe what he was trying to say was that a universe has multiple futures and worlds connected to it, which is backed up by the above scan of future, fate and worlds.
Is Olympus inside a universe or outside.
I also tried looking up into the Macro Cosmo. It isn't a structure. It is more like the big bang which is used to create universes. Trying to scale it to the Big bang Chronos caused isn't really right. The big bang Chronos caused is much complex than what Shaka caused, Based on how choice affect the verse, there might be worlds where Shaka doesn't even exist, where Athena choose an all female saint, stuff like that, Chronos caused that and governs that. So trying to scale a Macro Cosmo attack to that massive creation is nuts.
Lormac_CC
He/Him- 2,376
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After seeing the other scans, I just want ask, What was happening when this statement was made.GR says there is an infinite number of worlds based upon the snapshot of the present moment. At least thats how the sentence sounds to me.
"Has he become an Ashura, who fights eternally to save an infinite number of presents!"
Other translations say something like this
"Has he become an Ashura who fights eternally to save infinite presents!?"
Hasty12345
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The idea the universe is a structure which holds timeline is more or less completely exclusive to GA, and Okada consistently throughout the manga treats timelines as lessar objects than the he structure he calls "universes". That being said. Okada apparently faced criticism on his interpretation of the cosmology, hence why it becomes very messy in the latter half of the manga, and even now in GR it seems he's re-describing it.
Hasty12345
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Shura had just killed the past version of Aiolos who may or may not be the same Aiolos who was the villain of the previous manga. Yes, this author went and "retconned" his best villain (best written and most interesting) by making his favorite character go back in time and chop his head off
Lormac_CC
He/Him- 2,376
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Does GR recon things that happened in the classic and Omega if it doesn't, then it should be treated differently, having a different Cosmology
Lormac_CC
He/Him- 2,376
- 944
Shura had just killed the past version of Aiolos who may or may not be the same Aiolos who was the villain of the previous manga. Yes, this author went and "retconned" his best villain (best written and most interesting) by making his favorite character go back in time and chop his head off
Hasty12345
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Classic adds next to 0 in terms of cosmology, literally "here's the universe. Here's the Underworld, it is some kind of higher plane for souls and dead people." And that's all we get from classic.
ND alludes to a multiverse based on Samsara, but goes into barely any detail, However, Okada's view that the universe holds timelines, likely comes from an interpretation of the Chronos lake, where timelines are represented by galaxies and the lake is represented by the universe. In other words, Okada takes this representation and depicts it as literal in his manga which builds off Classic/ND.
Sho only states timelines branch.
LC only states the Underworld is outside the membrane that confines the universe.
The G series and Classic are the most connected of all series, having stories take place before and after Classic/ND with direct ties to both.
Lost Canvas and Sho don't depict anything wildly different cosmology wise, however, Okada also confirms there's a multiverse, where each universe has "it's own ruler", implying other cosmologies may exist within the wider "Multiverse" and why most of his statements involve building up "The Universe", as to not interfere with any other authors "Universe' within the cosmology. Okada is a very polite person, it is very "in-character" for him to make a multiverse where all authors can build their own cosmology and be apart of it
. But that's my personal view of the cosmology, but none of them are wildly different, infact, Okada in the latest chapter of GR may have "reconfirmed" his interpretation once again, which may be a traditional 2-A cosmology or an infinite universe structure with 2-B timelines, so kind of like a layer in the silver sea, it depends on the translations. I'm currently looking at having it translated by a few people to try and figure it out, nothing is clear with Okada
Hasty12345
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I will say, that the anime don't add much if anything to the cosmology, you can infer MWI from Okada's work, all Gemini Paradox's input would be is that there are infinite possibilities where Okada says "countless", so based on the currently accepted canons, it would just confirm countless = infinite and it contributes next to nothing.
As for Olympus, I think it's on the moon?
As for Olympus, I think it's on the moon?
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Yeah I asked Unshakable about that, do we actually know it was Anti-Pope Aiolos that got murked?Shura had just killed the past version of Aiolos who may or may not be the same Aiolos who was the villain of the previous manga. Yes, this author went and "retconned" his best villain (best written and most interesting) by making his favorite character go back in time and chop his head off
Hasty12345
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It's technically unclear, as it could just be an Aiolos about to go over the edge, and Shura's kind of like "hey, you don't wanna be like this dick", or Shura did go back in time of the LW and fk with causality and stuff. I hope it's the former, the Anti-Pope is such a good villain, honestly the bets in the franchise premise wise.
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Samsara has nothing to do with the multiverse, it is just a term to mention the cycle of reincarnation. The multiverse is represented with the universes destroyed by Shaka and Shijima's fight, which is affecting other dimensions (Tenma describes that it seems that the Ungyo is a sound coming from a distant dimension), and when Shiryu travels to another universe by falling into one of the distortions in time and space that appear in the Sanctuary. In the lake of Chronos there are only portals in the form of a galaxy/nebula to other epochs or eras of the universe, not timelines.
In reality, TLC does not contribute anything in terms of cosmology for the Underworld, since Asmita only indicates that Ilias was out of his reach, who was not in the Underworld and was never in that place because he reached the 8th Sense, and thanks to his knowledge of nature he was able to remain in the world as part of nature. Also, the translation doesn't even say the word membrane.
The interesting thing is that he died when he is supposed to have reached the 8th Sense, but currently it seems that each series has a different description of this sense.
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Hasty12345
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Aiolos let himself be beheaded because he didn’t want to become the Anti-Pope…
“Oh, now I see how I was wrong… such a world… such a future… such a sad ending. I did not want this.
what part of this makes it sound like Aiolos wants to come back alive? Aiolos admits he’s wrong, he’s aware of what he becomes when he’s alive, it’s heavily implies Pontos in some way manipulates him into becoming a demon.
Not all Saints choose to revive, even if they have the 8th sense. This Aiolos wants to be dead to preserve the image of the “Hero”.
not reviving =\= 8th sense is different. You very clearly do not understand Aiolos’ character.
“Oh, now I see how I was wrong… such a world… such a future… such a sad ending. I did not want this.
what part of this makes it sound like Aiolos wants to come back alive? Aiolos admits he’s wrong, he’s aware of what he becomes when he’s alive, it’s heavily implies Pontos in some way manipulates him into becoming a demon.
Not all Saints choose to revive, even if they have the 8th sense. This Aiolos wants to be dead to preserve the image of the “Hero”.
not reviving =\= 8th sense is different. You very clearly do not understand Aiolos’ character.
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Yes, but the 8th sense allows the Saints to transcend death and to kill Aiolos he had to destroy his body and soul, something that never happened in that scene, where Shura uses a simple cut to kill him.
All Saints with the 8th Sense can resurrect after reaching that sense, except in TLC where it is explained that this sense does not allow people to resurrect, because it does not grant a new body and it is only a liberation of the spirit. In the story it is never said that they can control whether they resurrect or not, it only seems that they resurrect after death when they awaken this sense.
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Hasty12345
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TLDR?
Hades went “lol no” to his hero complex, dude gave up on his humanity, tried to make things right. Implied to be some kind of vessel to Pontos. Opened the black core. Started invading other timelines. Baited Zeus into invading a “miracle timeline”. Shura beats Zeus’ ass. Aiolos gets final word/revenge speech.
gets beheaded by “Ashura” in the past after finding out what happens.
in a rough roundabout way
Hasty12345
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Yes. What part of Aiolos’ character makes you think he wants to resurrect? It’s completely out of character for any gold Saint to resurrect, otherwise, why didn’t the golds just come back in ND and fight the previous generation of golds for Athena? A much better plot tbh.
gold Saints all throughout classic loo towards the future, even Shura at the first logical chance he got sacrificed his life to defeat Zeus and return to the past where he dies at the wailing wall. Until GR retconned that perfect ending to his character smfh….. (not happy about that one tbh).
Aiolos did not want to resurrect. His soul is likely wandering the Underworld or some other heaven like the classic gold Saints.
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The problem is that it is never mentioned that resurrection was an option and it only seems to be a power that activates automatically awakening that sense. And Aiolos never suggests to Shura to destroy him body and soul to erase him completely. The Gold Saints were destroyed in body and soul in the scene of the Wailing Wall (I even doubt they can resurrect or regain their body after that), so they exist on a different plane, something that does not happen with Aiolos in that scene.
This reminds me of Sisyphus, Ahimsa, Asmita and Ilias, who were never resurrected and only died even when they awakened this sense, although Ilias was able to avoid traveling to the underworld and become part of nature thanks to his knowledge of the world and this sense. And considering that Okada never describes the 8th Sense in his manga, it may be like in TLC and this sense may have a different description.
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Hasty12345
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That’s not a problem. You’re completely disregarding character motivations and inserting head canon in there place.
Past-LW Aiolos’ soul being in Nirvana/UW completely accomplishes what he wants. To be removed from the timeline as to stop himself from becoming the Anti-Pope and doing horrible things.
that’s literally it. You’re making problems up. Pay attention to the characters.
Past-LW Aiolos’ soul being in Nirvana/UW completely accomplishes what he wants. To be removed from the timeline as to stop himself from becoming the Anti-Pope and doing horrible things.
that’s literally it. You’re making problems up. Pay attention to the characters.
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The problem is not in the character's motivations, the problem is in the power of this sense and the description of this sense in the original manga, where it is never said that the Saints can choose whether to resurrect or not after awakening this sense.
Nirvana is only a plane that the Saints reached after they were destroyed body and soul in the explosion of the Wailing Wall, and I doubt that they could even resurrect or recover their body after that.
For preventing Aiolos from continuing with his plans, Shura should have destroyed him body and soul (similar to how the Saints were destroyed in the Wailing Wall scene), since Aiolos has the 8th Sense, and if he could stay in one place without doing anything, why did Shura have to kill him, when he could do the same thing alive and stay in the Sanctuary without doing anything.
The plot is very stupid.
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Hasty12345
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Killing off LW Aiolos the way he did was very stupid.
but it doesn’t change the 8th sense as depicted in Classic. You’re looking far too deeply into a PIS moment to infer something so ridiculously unrelated it’s insane.
if you don’t wanna mix LC 8th sense with classic, that’s up to you. Okada has not given us any indication the 8th sense in G deviates from classic in the slightest.
And for the record, Seiya still remembers Shura to the point mentioning he was supposed to go back to the wailing wall, which indicates he remembers the events of GA which implies the Anti-Pope goes on to invade the miracle timeline despite Shura killing him in the past. For all we know, we haven’t seen the last of him and you could be right and that he’s gonna resurrect and be a dick anyway….. which would be even worse than keeping him dead
but it doesn’t change the 8th sense as depicted in Classic. You’re looking far too deeply into a PIS moment to infer something so ridiculously unrelated it’s insane.
if you don’t wanna mix LC 8th sense with classic, that’s up to you. Okada has not given us any indication the 8th sense in G deviates from classic in the slightest.
And for the record, Seiya still remembers Shura to the point mentioning he was supposed to go back to the wailing wall, which indicates he remembers the events of GA which implies the Anti-Pope goes on to invade the miracle timeline despite Shura killing him in the past. For all we know, we haven’t seen the last of him and you could be right and that he’s gonna resurrect and be a dick anyway….. which would be even worse than keeping him dead
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Yes, but it is a different timeline, with several events different from those seen in the original manga and next dimension, especially the timeline of Aiolos, which is completely different, even the Bronze God Cloths have the anime colors and the God Cloths have the anime designs (Soul of Gold), which are not official for the main universe (probably the official designs for the Gold God Cloth are the designs of Saint Seiya Awakening, where Kurumadapro participated in its creation).if you don’t wanna mix LC 8th sense with classic, that’s up to you. Okada has not given us any indication the 8th sense in G deviates from classic in the slightest.
And for the record, Seiya still remembers Shura to the point mentioning he was supposed to go back to the wailing wall, which indicates he remembers the events of GA which implies the Anti-Pope goes on to invade the miracle timeline despite Shura killing him in the past. For all we know, we haven’t seen the last of him and you could be right and that he’s gonna resurrect and be a dick anyway….. which would be even worse than keeping him dead
It could also be, because this Shura is an anomaly in time and that's why Seiya remembers him, because he never disappeared.
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What was his endgame?
Hasty12345
Username Only- 5,176
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Art style means absolutely nothing to anything.
Hasty12345
Username Only- 5,176
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Unknown. Likely rule the multiverse along side chaos Athena
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It's not an art style, it's a specific design that is completely different, and Okada even points out the color change in the scene where Seiya's God Cloth turns gold (when gold is the canon color of the God Cloths). We also have the changes to the story like Aiolos is alive, Aiolia is the avatar of Zeus, Seiya was killed by Hades, etc. The world of Aiolos is completely different from the main universe.
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- Thread starter
- #110
It was Seiya remembering this particular shura and then after that statement we get an explanation that Shura cannot he cannot stay in ANY TIME AXIS (yes it was stated in that way) for longer than 5 minutes. Because he will then be ejected out of the time axis. So Shura is still bound by the concept of time its just that he is thrown outside the Timespace continuum to going from one world to the next hence the "Save the infinite presents/Infinite Number of Presents."
Omega is a seperate timeline altogether but not a separate Canon
Actually GR is connected to GA, and GA is connected to ND and ND is connected to the classic
There are statements that Hyoga and Shiryu make in GA that they can only know if they been through the events of Next Dimension. otherwise there is no point in them knowing those statements and the how, when, what, where, do/don't, etc.
But Cosmology has beeen consisten between them all
Although I just got confirmation from a translator that GR does have another statement about infinite universes. Woke up to it lol.
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Hyoga and Shiryu never make mention of the events of Next Dimension, even Shiryu doesn't have the dragon pearl in the tattoo on his back, and the dragon in Shiryu's Rozan Shoryu Ha doesn't have the pearl in his hand either. And there is also no mention of the arrow of the goddess that Marin found in the remains of the Temple of Ophiuchus, and nothing is mentioned about the Ophiuchus Saint.
Hasty12345
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Dude… art style means nothing and did you even read GA?
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- Thread starter
- #113
i asked staff members. Changes in art does not mean retcon or separation of canons.
not mentioning anything at all also doesn't equate to separations either.
you need something more concrete than extrapolating from artstyle or something that doesn't exist.
Additionally, they make references to ND all the time...
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When a sacred treasure that Shiryu acquired in the past is related to the artistic style.
Hasty12345
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Seiya has a different haircut in GA, guess we otta separate canons smh
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This is not an artistic style, it is a sacred treasure that Shiryu acquired in a scene in Next Dimension, a gift from the God Drago to Shiryu, for having demonstrated a heart that cannot be disturbed by anything. A sacred treasure that does not appear and is not named in Assassin.
They never refer to Next Dimension and the events were clearly different, because they don't have the arrow of the goddess and Shiryu doesn't have the dragon pearl either, even Seiya is not recovered and they never fought against the Olympian gods, as Next Dimension insinuates will happen, since Athena is causing the wrath of the gods by time travel.
Hasty12345
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You realise this is the biggest most outlandish nit-pick in the history of ever…
the literal events of ND are referenced dude, Okada not drawing a circle on Shiryu’s back in not relevant to anything
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- #118
What does this "magica pearl" do? Why is it significant or relevant at all?
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It is relevant, because it is a central part of Shiryu's plot in Next Dimension and how thanks to that sacred treasure in Dohko's staff he managed to return from another universe, after showing that he does not seek a peaceful life with his wife and son, and decided to die as a warrior.You realise this is the biggest most outlandish nit-pick in the history of ever…
the literal events of ND are referenced dude, Okada not drawing a circle on Shiryu’s back in not relevant to anything
Hasty12345
Username Only- 5,176
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The arrow of the goddess being the Sagittarius arrow? The same arrow used by the Sagi Saint? The same Saint who doesn’t appear in the whole fken manga?
