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THAT SCP Revision (Yes, it's High 1-A)

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Sir_Ovens

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The SCP Revision Team™ Presents

The High 1-A Revision!


But first!

Undercards
  • Passive Plot Manipulation
  • SCP-3000's EC key
  • SCP-953's EC key

Passive Plot Manipulation
In the tale BLANK, Placeholder explains this:

"In Pataphysics, there are three types of characters. There are generics, the standard lot of people, who aren't exactly interesting enough to show up in most narrative structures. Then, there are protagonists and archetypicals. Protagonists have anomalously-high narrative potential, which means that they often end up being, well, protagonists. Heroes of their own stories, free to act upon the narrative structures around them. Members of royalty, heroes from folklore — it's a form of low-level reality-bending."

Place gestures towards himself and his lunchmate. "You and I, on the other hand, are archetypicals. We have anomalously-low narrative potential, and so the narrative structures of the universe act upon us, instead, shaping our lives in ways that end up being good for other nearby stories. This means we have a tendency to be side-characters and fall into common archetypes. I'm a mad-scientist archetype, for example. I kind-of wear it on my sleeve."

What this means essentially, is that protagonist-type characters like Bright and Clef have low-level plot manipulation courtesy of Narrative entities like Swann. This is outright stated in the follow-up tale, CAST:

"Yes. You all remember the narrative examinations last month?" He's met with nods round the table. "We were testing for 'protagonism', a measure of one's manipulation of surrounding narrative structures. As you hopefully read in your invitation emails, our universe is influenced by 'author-entities', beings from a higher narrative dimension. When an author-entity has an idea for a story, they can inject that story into our 'universal narrative', and it'll influence what happens in our reality."

"Most people aren't interesting enough to show up in these 'stories'. However, people with above-average protagonism are able to react independently to these stories and make their own decisions. They shape the story-structures to fit their own narrative, and so we call them 'protagonists' — literally the main characters in their own stories. As I explained to Blank a while ago, it's a form of low-level reality-bending."

"Harry's passion in life is reading history books," Wettle interjects. "You're telling me some eldritch entity finds that interesting enough to write about?"

Blank cracks his knuckles idly. "Beats a career in repeating other peoples' experiments."

"For Christ's sake—" Place starts, before collecting himself. "I'm telling you the exact opposite, Will. You've all been selected because you have lower-than-average protagonism. You're not just generic characters, but you're more susceptible to narrative influences. When a protagonist or author-entity initiates a story, we fall into place as needed, fulfilling common archetypes."

Blank leans forward, gesturing to the group. "We're side-characters. Archetypicals."

"Yes. Thanks, Harry." Place gets up from his chair, pacing around the podium to his laptop. "Now, most mid- to high-level Foundation personnel are protagonists. Archetypicals are exceedingly rare in our organization as we're focused on people who can combat anomalies and their associated stories, rather than be shaped by them.

"However, there are some anomalies that do not 'want' to be written about; they compel protagonists away, pushing them into other narrative structures. As such, our low narrative content makes us useful for dealing with such anomalies, as we're resistant to becoming more 'protagonistic'."

"Wait, wait, wait, just, hold up." Forkley raises his hands expressively. "Just wanna make sure I really understand this."

"Of course." Place boots up the digital projector, connecting it to his laptop as he listens.

"Protagonists can shape the world around them, on some level, so that they can, what, go on adventures?"

"Not necessarily. The 'shape' of our universal narrative is all about change — you can see this in simple abstractions of stories, like the Hero's Journey. It's actually a function of entropy; a hero has some ordered ideal, and that ideal is challenged over the course of a story, so their beliefs become more complicated and disordered. And, if an author-entity writes a story that requires a 'hero' archetype, an archetypical can fulfill that role. Protagonists are essentially able to make stories revolve around them and their change."

Now what this means is that there will be two different additions. The complex one would be Protagonists. Those that can be described as such would get Plot-Manipulation and Reality Warping on account of being able to shape the Narrative around them. In addition, based on the Archetypicals series, we know that the Narrative always favors a satisfying conclusion. An example would be a rubik cube always being solved when scrambled regardless of any logical steps required to achieve that outcome. As such, a Protagonist will always win, or at the very least, be victorious in the end; be it total or pyrrhic. Now the challenge comes from deciding who gets this upgrade. Obviously, author avatars like Bright and Clef should get it based on the quote above, but we also have to consider what constitutes a "Protagonist" in this scenario. If we are being all-encompassing, literally every profile would have this unless outright stated to not be a protagonist like Fred.

The simple addition would be that of Archetypicals. This will be simple since there is a black and white statement of who are Archetypicals. Placeholder and his team are Archetypicals, and that is all. Archetypicals would get Resistance to Plot Manipulation and Reality Warping, as they are not affected by the plot of a Narrative and have "free-will" so to speak.

More context on the nature of Protagonists, Archetypicals, and how they work can be read up on the Archetypicals series as part of the On Guard 43 canon.

SCP-3000's EC key
Pretty straightforward. In a number of tales, SCP-3000 is insinuated to be The Serpent's sibling. The Serpent is the ruler of the Wanderer's Library and should be on par with the Hanged King. As such, SCP-3000 should have an EC key on par with them. I can't remember the exact tales that state they were siblings, but I'm sure someone can pull that up for me later in the thread.

SCP-953's EC key
SCP-953 fought 682 (CTRL+F 953). She needs a 9-A EC key.

Main Event
Ok so about a year ago, I made a CRT on why SCP-5800, otherwise known as the Infosphere, was 5D and hence Low 1-C. However, after deliberation with Ultima, we have come to the conclusion that the Alephs mentioned in SCP-5800 could be real Alephs.

As Ultima put it:

"As far as I can tell, the previous argument for the aleph numbers described in 5800 not qualifying was the fact they are contained in a "the Fifth Dimension," but we've already disregarded dimensionality statements for similar cases in the past (See: DC's Sixth Dimension), where taking them at face value just doesn't fit in with the rest of a verse's cosmology. And even putting that aside, 5800 is explicitly a 5-dimensional space in a purely abstract sense, since its axes aren't really spatial measures like Length, Width or Height but stuff like "Abstractness," "Permeability," and "Corruptibility", so, yeah, those definitely don't serve to disqualify High 1-A anyway."

This would bump all Noospheric creatures to 1-A. Of course, this would - by default - bump Narratives up to High 1-A.

If the above is proven true, what would this mean for scaling?

Well, Noospheric creatures like 3125 and Mnemosyne would be 1-A.

This, in turn, would bump up the God tiers a bit. Since Scarlet King scales to being > 3125, and he shook the Noosphere along with The Brothers Death. So I propose a tier change from "2-A, likely Low 1-C, possibly higher" to "2-A, likely 1-A".

Narrative entities like IHP's Proposal and 2747 will become High 1-A due to the already established uncountable difference between Narratives.

Saikou had this to say about the tiering of the True Authors:

True Authors exist beyond the scope of Swann and likely Pataphysics in its entirety.

"so yeah that's what we know about the true authors
the actual authors, completely unaffected by all the meta shit
made up swann to tell meta stories
when trying to apply this to what we know of Pataphysics, we can either interpret this as:

1. The True Authors are just on another layer of narrative in the Pataphysical pantheon.
2. The True Authors created Pataphysics, and thus the very concept of narrative layers.

The former is kinda the most straightforward. But I think there are some points against it.
Like how it's implied Swanns were created just for meta stuff, which wouldn't make that much sense in the Pataphysics cosmology. You can't "push" a narrative downwards
Or how very little of the pataphysical articles showcasing higher narratives than Swann's affect the Swanns much at all.
so either could work. Hence why I cooould see a "possibly 0" for the True Authors."

This would make True Authors At least High 1-A, possibly 0.

That should be all for now.

Also, shout out to The SCP Revision Team™ for their contributions to this project.
 
Last edited:
No cake upgrade? Whack

The difference between 2A and 1A is staggeringly high ngl. So I will ask a dumb question, why not bump them to 1A instead? Or do they have too many anti feats?
 
Would 682's true form be given the same upgrade? Because as far as I remember from 6820's article, 682 was able to fight and absorb some of 3125's concept after it got ejected from the Noosphere.
Anyways if the Alephs mentioned are legitimate, then I agree with the 1-A proposal
 
Oh hell yeah baby

Infinite levels above baseline 3812.

We take those.

I agree with the CRT.

Also, what levels would all the 1As be at?
 
Bro why are you revising 953 like this
Her current page has other problems plus you didn’t even read her tales
 
No cake upgrade? Whack

The difference between 2A and 1A is staggeringly high ngl. So I will ask a dumb question, why not bump them to 1A instead? Or do they have too many anti feats?
uh, more just because the main low 1-C feats got upgraded to 1-A, so it would be 2-A likely 1-A as the low 1-C was upgraded
 
Basically, we have no direct confirmation that SK or The Brothers Death can actually harm Noospheric creatures like 3125. All we have are allusions that 3125 is far below the Scarlet King in power. In addition, Adem El Asem is likely stronger than all the God tiers, including 3125, so I would not be too opposed to just flat 1-A? I just feel it's safer to maintain 2-A since it's the solid and most straightforward tier. Scarlet King's feat of making Yesod his throne is enough to support it.

Make no mistake, a lot of this needs to be discussed. I'd rather not talk about levels of power just yet and focus on arguments for and against 1-A.
 
Ok so Saikou has a small bit of information to drop on us.

True Authors exist beyond the scope of Swann and likely Pataphysics in its entirety.

Based on Saikou's own words:

"
so yeah that's what we know about the true authors
the actual authors, completely unaffected by all the meta shit
made up swann to tell meta stories

when trying to apply this to what we know of Pataphysics, we can either interpret this as:

1. The True Authors are just on another layer of narrative in the Pataphysical pantheon.
2. The True Authors created Pataphysics, and thus the very concept of narrative layers.

The former is kinda the most straightforward. But I think there are some points against it.

Like how it's implied Swanns were created just for meta stuff, which wouldn't make that much sense in the Pataphysics cosmology. You can't "push" a narrative downwards
Or how very little of the pataphysical articles showcasing higher narratives than Swann's affect the Swanns much at all.

so either could work. Hence why I cooould see a "possibly 0" for the True Authors."

So At least High 1-A, possibly 0 for True Authors.
 
Very straightforward and I agree. Also no useless wall of flowery text like most tier 1 upgrades so +1

Also true authors are most likely just intended to represent the ACTUAL real world authors, so idk if we want to tier them. But if we do then I will personally go with straight up tier 0 rather than a possibly.
 
Also true authors are most likely just intended to represent the ACTUAL real world authors, so idk if we want to tier them. But if we do then I will personally go with straight up tier 0 rather than a possibly.
What's wrong about being the representation of something from our world? Representations aren't the same as the actual thing. And it's listed as possibly because there are two ways to interpret the text, and even tier 0 would be stretching the words somewhat.

As for my opinions, I do agree with the upgrades for 1-A, however keeping the 2-A for SK and those around their power seems a bit weird, considering the gap and massive scaling above other elder gods. Also, 2-A and 1-A aren't exactly close tiers, whatsoever.

For Swann, i'm more inclined for possibly 0, as both are equally reasonable.

Plot and RW stuff seems fine.

3000 needs a link for it, and 953 is fine.
 
What's wrong about being the representation of something from our world? Representations aren't the same as the actual thing. And it's listed as possibly because there are two ways to interpret the text, and even tier 0 would be stretching the words somewhat.
Well in this case they aren't even fictional characters or "representations", just straight up the actual authors.
 
Tier 1 with no mental gymnastics lesgooooo, I agree.

Will wait more on True Authors interpretation taken (tho in my HC they represented the (fake)true authors beyond any extension of the stack, so leaning on tier 0)

And regarding the 2-A, yh it kinda weird and imo uneeded
 
Hmm...remind me, what exactly does it take to classify as 1-A again?
 
Hmm...remind me, what exactly does it take to classify as 1-A again?
Conceptually transcending infinite hierarchies, or directly satisfying the mathematical criteria(Aleph 3 or higher with continuum hypothesis). In this case the latter is what is being applied.
 
The SCP Revision Team™ Presents

The High 1-A Revision!


But first!

Undercards
  • Passive Plot Manipulation
  • SCP-3000's EC key
  • SCP-953's EC key

Passive Plot Manipulation
In the tale BLANK, Placeholder explains this:

"In Pataphysics, there are three types of characters. There are generics, the standard lot of people, who aren't exactly interesting enough to show up in most narrative structures. Then, there are protagonists and archetypicals. Protagonists have anomalously-high narrative potential, which means that they often end up being, well, protagonists. Heroes of their own stories, free to act upon the narrative structures around them. Members of royalty, heroes from folklore — it's a form of low-level reality-bending."

Place gestures towards himself and his lunchmate. "You and I, on the other hand, are archetypicals. We have anomalously-low narrative potential, and so the narrative structures of the universe act upon us, instead, shaping our lives in ways that end up being good for other nearby stories. This means we have a tendency to be side-characters and fall into common archetypes. I'm a mad-scientist archetype, for example. I kind-of wear it on my sleeve."

What this means essentially, is that protagonist-type characters like Bright and Clef have low-level plot manipulation courtesy of Narrative entities like Swann. This is outright stated in the follow-up tale, CAST:

"Yes. You all remember the narrative examinations last month?" He's met with nods round the table. "We were testing for 'protagonism', a measure of one's manipulation of surrounding narrative structures. As you hopefully read in your invitation emails, our universe is influenced by 'author-entities', beings from a higher narrative dimension. When an author-entity has an idea for a story, they can inject that story into our 'universal narrative', and it'll influence what happens in our reality."

"Most people aren't interesting enough to show up in these 'stories'. However, people with above-average protagonism are able to react independently to these stories and make their own decisions. They shape the story-structures to fit their own narrative, and so we call them 'protagonists' — literally the main characters in their own stories. As I explained to Blank a while ago, it's a form of low-level reality-bending."

"Harry's passion in life is reading history books," Wettle interjects. "You're telling me some eldritch entity finds that interesting enough to write about?"

Blank cracks his knuckles idly. "Beats a career in repeating other peoples' experiments."

"For Christ's sake—" Place starts, before collecting himself. "I'm telling you the exact opposite, Will. You've all been selected because you have lower-than-average protagonism. You're not just generic characters, but you're more susceptible to narrative influences. When a protagonist or author-entity initiates a story, we fall into place as needed, fulfilling common archetypes."

Blank leans forward, gesturing to the group. "We're side-characters. Archetypicals."

"Yes. Thanks, Harry." Place gets up from his chair, pacing around the podium to his laptop. "Now, most mid- to high-level Foundation personnel are protagonists. Archetypicals are exceedingly rare in our organization as we're focused on people who can combat anomalies and their associated stories, rather than be shaped by them.

"However, there are some anomalies that do not 'want' to be written about; they compel protagonists away, pushing them into other narrative structures. As such, our low narrative content makes us useful for dealing with such anomalies, as we're resistant to becoming more 'protagonistic'."

"Wait, wait, wait, just, hold up." Forkley raises his hands expressively. "Just wanna make sure I really understand this."

"Of course." Place boots up the digital projector, connecting it to his laptop as he listens.

"Protagonists can shape the world around them, on some level, so that they can, what, go on adventures?"

"Not necessarily. The 'shape' of our universal narrative is all about change — you can see this in simple abstractions of stories, like the Hero's Journey. It's actually a function of entropy; a hero has some ordered ideal, and that ideal is challenged over the course of a story, so their beliefs become more complicated and disordered. And, if an author-entity writes a story that requires a 'hero' archetype, an archetypical can fulfill that role. Protagonists are essentially able to make stories revolve around them and their change."

Now what this means is that there will be two different additions. The complex one would be Protagonists. Those that can be described as such would get Plot-Manipulation and Reality Warping on account of being able to shape the Narrative around them. In addition, based on the Archetypicals series, we know that the Narrative always favors a satisfying conclusion. An example would be a rubik cube always being solved when scrambled regardless of any logical steps required to achieve that outcome. As such, a Protagonist will always win, or at the very least, be victorious in the end; be it total or pyrrhic. Now the challenge comes from deciding who gets this upgrade. Obviously, author avatars like Bright and Clef should get it based on the quote above, but we also have to consider what constitutes a "Protagonist" in this scenario. If we are being all-encompassing, literally every profile would have this unless outright stated to not be a protagonist like Fred.

The simple addition would be that of Archetypicals. This will be simple since there is a black and white statement of who are Archetypicals. Placeholder and his team are Archetypicals, and that is all. Archetypicals would get Resistance to Plot Manipulation and Reality Warping, as they are not affected by the plot of a Narrative and have "free-will" so to speak.

More context on the nature of Protagonists, Archetypicals, and how they work can be read up on the Archetypicals series as part of the On Guard 43 canon.

SCP-3000's EC key
Pretty straightforward. In a number of tales, SCP-3000 is insinuated to be The Serpent's sibling. The Serpent is the ruler of the Wanderer's Library and should be on par with the Hanged King. As such, SCP-3000 should have an EC key on par with them. I can't remember the exact tales that state they were siblings, but I'm sure someone can pull that up for me later in the thread.

SCP-953's EC key
SCP-953 fought 682 (CTRL+F 953). She needs a 9-A EC key.

Main Event
Ok so about a year ago, I made a CRT on why SCP-5800, otherwise known as the Infosphere, was 5D and hence Low 1-C. However, after deliberation with Ultima, we have come to the conclusion that the Alephs mentioned in SCP-5800 could be real Alephs. This would bump all Noospheric creatures to 1-A. Of course, this would - by default - bump Narratives up to High 1-A.

If the above is proven true, what would this mean for scaling?

Well, Noospheric creatures like 3125 and Mnemosyne would be 1-A.

This, in turn, would bump up the God tiers a bit. Since Scarlet King scales to being > 3125, and he shook the Noosphere along with The Brothers Death. So I propose a tier change from "2-A, likely Low 1-C, possibly higher" to "2-A, likely 1-A".

Narrative entities like IHP's Proposal and 2747 will become High 1-A due to the already established uncountable difference between Narratives.

That should be all for now.

Also, shout out to The SCP Revision Team™ for their contributions to this project.

finally scp high 1-A will now happen.


though sir ovens. (will scp-3812 ever be possibly tier 0, i said possibly)


also will scp-682 finally get upgrades yet? (Like high godly regen and more resistances?)
 
Who are represented in fictional form, and therefor classifiable.
That would clearly ignore the whole intention of the situation, as the actual authors appear after the already in-verse fake authors(which were their actual in-verse fictional avatars) die.
 
That would clearly ignore the whole intention of the situation, as the actual authors appear after the already in-verse fake authors(which were their actual in-verse fictional avatars) die.
Which means that they aren't the true authors.... who are the True Authors of swann. They very clearly are fictional and represent the authors writing, but then again, so did Swann writers before True Swann was introduced, and we added it as well. Also, they have direct importance in SCP, and aren't just an offhand mention.
 
Which means that they aren't the true authors.... who are the True Authors of swann. They very clearly are fictional and represent the authors writing
They show up after what we previously thought were the authors die. They are quite clearly intended to be the actual real life authors.

Although yea I guess it's just the Swann thing kicked up a notch to include metafictional phenomenon as well.
 
Which means that they aren't the true authors.... who are the True Authors of swann. They very clearly are fictional and represent the authors writing, but then again, so did Swann writers before True Swann was introduced, and we added it as well. Also, they have direct importance in SCP, and aren't just an offhand mention.

infinite day you think scp-682 will have high godly regen plus more resistances soon?
 
You know since we're on the topic of the SCP authors, there's a question I want to ask because it'll be stuck in my head otherwise.
Isn't SCP-3999 suppose to be the author of the article, Lord StarFish? At least that's what I've heard is the case but IDK, I mainly ask because then wouldn't 3999 have an author key or just be it's own thing
 
I somehow missed this but I agree with the OP and the stuff about True Authors, I believe this is a very clear-cut upgrade given how it almost exactly aligns with the mathematical aspects of our standard.
 
I think this seems fine. Does this mean the team will look at the low tiers more. anyway scp-3000 is the brother of the serpent canonically SCP-4812 is the source.
 
You know since we're on the topic of the SCP authors, there's a question I want to ask because it'll be stuck in my head otherwise.
Isn't SCP-3999 suppose to be the author of the article, Lord StarFish? At least that's what I've heard is the case but IDK, I mainly ask because then wouldn't 3999 have an author key or just be it's own thing
Yes, 3999 is meant to represent the author Lord Stonefish, but not in the way someone like the Swann are, unless I missed some article about it that adds new info. At best you could treat it maybe as an avatar, but It works very differently from even the most direct author inserts like Scarlet Berkeley. Talloran gains his abilities by the end of it later as well iirc, so I think it is better to treat it as metaphorical but cosmologically unrelated entity
 
We still need to discuss who counts as a "Protagonist" since the broad definition would mean that 90% of our SCP profiles will get it.
 
We still need to discuss who counts as a "Protagonist" since the broad definition would mean that 90% of our SCP profiles will get it.
Clef, Kondraki, Bright, Gerald, Lucien, basically all the 05's, and most high-level researchers, and all field agents who feature as a protagonist prominently in their stories.
 
Ok so about a year ago, I made a CRT on why SCP-5800, otherwise known as the Infosphere, was 5D and hence Low 1-C. However, after deliberation with Ultima, we have come to the conclusion that the Alephs mentioned in SCP-5800 could be real Alephs. This would bump all Noospheric creatures to 1-A. Of course, this would - by default - bump Narratives up to High 1-A.

If the above is proven true
I agree with the upgrade itself from outside context, but you never really explained why they should be real Alephs. Like I expected at least some explanation but this was really just "Ultima said so".

Information about True Authors should also have been added to OP in the first place. This thread is kind of a mess.
 
I agree with the upgrade itself from outside context, but you never really explained why they should be real Alephs. Like I expected at least some explanation but this was really just "Ultima said so".

Information about True Authors should also have been added to OP in the first place. This thread is kind of a mess.
It was debated extensively between Ultima and Ovens in discord, and they eventually found enough supporting details to believe that the alephs are actual alephs. Ultima or Oven will give you better context though.
 
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