Terraria: Pervasive Speed and AP Issues

[RRTheEndMan]

also said arrow's at least wall level if all of that passes which is unlikely, so that point is kinda moot.

Don't they come from space? In 10 seconds that would be MHS. Tough I agree with Island and powerscaled level being hakai'd. And we actually know the Size of terraria's Island. But that's hax

 

[Assaltwaffle]

As per Dragon's suggestion, I will highlight this.

 

[Dark649]

I'm not familiar with the verse, but Assault brought up good points.

 

[Ryukama]

Damn what an essay. I appreciated the puns scattered in it though.

Anyways I'll keep an open mind and wait for Saikou, however from what I read Assalt seems to be making a massive amount of sense.

TBH though I almost think these profiles should be deleted if so much is wrong with them. Unless others are willing to then go through all the trouble of finding new feats that can actually be used.

 

[Jinsye]

Well we have 5-C and 9-B feats if this goes through.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

1. Stars explicitly come from the sky, which is true even when used in space (Where you'll get the weapon). These can't come from just the atmosphere, when you're basically out of it.

2. We have Cloud-to-Ground lighting as well, it's just that the Tesla Coil is slower so it was used instead.

3. See above. We'd have to recalc it though.

4. Eater of World is far stronger than someone who's High 7-C+. He only has to be less than 2x times stronger than the King Slime to be Low 7-B.

5. They're close to the 6-C people but still below them.

6. The Terrarian island has whole mountain chains in the background. One Mountain would be 7-A, but pretty sure a whole chains of them would be quite easily 6-C. The corruption of the Island also affects said mountains, so it's not just a tiny part of it being corrupted.

7. Except that Solar Eclipses can be manually summoned instantly. And that the existence of the bosses prevents even that from happening.

8. Apparently, needing to boost yourself by quite a bit to even stand a chance isn't valid scaling.

9. It's just a transition effect, much like anything that fades in or out in any game.

10. Comes from an objective narration that has no reason to be hyperbolic all of sudden.

Regarding it being 3-C, it was decided to be that way back in the thread, not even something I decided on.

Abilities:

1. The ectoplasm enemy from the dungeon, the tortured soul in hell.

2. He resists a machine that, while he can activate himself, isn't part of his regular power set. He can't selectively choose to speed up something and not speed up something else. It also applies when someone else activates it.

3. Curse and Silence status effect.

4. Could be mentioned, but it's not like it's utterly inapplicable in combat anyway.

5. Pretty sure we treat disintegration as matter manip. Also it not being usable in combat in-game =/= it not being usable in combat at all.

 

[Rocker1189]

Kudoes for the effort.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I agree with AW. Sorry, Saik.

 

[RRTheEndMan]

Saikou The Lewd King wrotean essay about:
Expert Wall of Text is too difficult, so nope.

1. shhh if the timeframe is accepted to be 10 secs for 10000 km the AP becomes 3x and speed is always equalized anyways so who cares That still doesn't disprove 1b
2.;3.;4. Dunno
5.;6.; Still hax

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Try not to quote large walls of text please.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

1. The stars coming from above the casting location regardless of height just supports that they are magically generated. I've already established that these "stars" are not meteors and they aren't true stars for obvious reasons. Why would a magically generated construct come from the asteroid belt instead of just being constructed at a set point above the user?

2. So cloud-to-ground lightning was ignored and the Tesla Turret used since it moves slower. I know you see how absuivr and blatantly decietfuk that is. You have cloud-to-ground lightning to scale with, but use a slower projectile and assign lightning speed to it despite lightning showing itself to be faster.

I'm also having a memory lapse; what causes the real lightning?

4. The Wiki doesn't scale like this. Without a provable measure of superiority, being above someone, even by a decent margin is just "at least."

More later; my time is limited.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Something I should point out, it's very unlikely that anyone in Terraria can go above Subsonic, as the Cell Phone, etc display exactly how fast you are going, which speed cannot exceed 169(?) MPH. And before you say anything, a Mario speed upgrade was denied in the past for that same reason.

 

[Kaltias]

We actually do allow tier jumps if you are much stronger compared to a high end feat.

 

[Schnee_One]

4. Ragyō Kiryüi

 

[Kaltias]

Akron is 4-B for a 4-B feat.

Godcat's avatars are 4-B upscaling from High 4-C though.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

We actually do allow tier jumps if you are much stronger compared to a high end feat.

But the Eater of Worlds is not any definable margin stronger than King Slim aside from in-game health and damage. It is only certain that he is stronger.

 

[Kaltias]

If it's an unknown degree of superiority it should only be "at least High 7-C" yes

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Just a little nitpick, I'd say that "having the power of the earth" is a lot different than "having all of the power ON earth". The former refers to the planet itself, while the latter refers to all of the power possessed across the globe. Because of this the former is a lot more specific.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Arbitrary

Granted, but the wording is ambiguous to the point that you don't know which option is correct.

@Saikou

5. We don't reverse scale. If someone is weaker than another character be a decent margin we don't slap on the next tier down. Doing so is very fallacious sense it violates normal scaling. By the same logic you could say "X character is 1% of a 4-B so he is 4-C" even when X character has no showings beyond High 6-A and he shown to be inferior to the 4-B.

6. Having several islands =/= Island level. And you don't address the most damning issue, which is that corrupting/hollowing a location does not give AP.

7. Once again this is nothing but game progression. The mech bosses don't hold it back manually, the just prevent a player from getting an unfair advantage and skipping the progression that is omnipresent throughout Terraria.

8. No, you know this is outright wrong. You don't need to increase your power to fight Plantera, it just makes him easier. Once again he is just an unquantifiable amount above the mech bosses and cannot be scaled outside of "at least..."

9. Yes, exactly. So we are in agreement that this is wrong I assume.

10. An "objective narration?" Why does a tooltip have exemption from hyperbole when it clearly displays it? The Solar fragment uses an undeniable hyperbole, and the Lunar Hook also has a likely hyperbolic statement as well.

Just because it was agreed on being 3-C doesn't make it correct. If there isn't a reason for it to be 3-C then my points stand even if it isn't raw hyperbole.

Abilities:

1. The Dungeon Spirit isn't valid for the reasons above. The Hell soul is interesting, but at the same time can it really be classified as soul destruction? If it can, literal normal animals in Terraria have soul destruction, since anything that does damage can do this.

So what is more likely: every single being in Terraria is capable of destroying souls, or the one example that may be legit isn't a real soul, like all the others.

2. Literally everything in the game resists this. Worms resist this. This is clearly just game mechanics that only time moves forward.

3. Perfectly fair; just needs to be elaborated on.

5. I shouldn't have used disintegration either. The Drill Mount just destroys blocks like any normal pixiaxe, just very quickly t numerous blocks at a time. Considering that normal picks are combat applicable in-game, if this was meant to deal damage why wouldn't it?

 

[Kaltias]

We don't reverse scale.

That's actually more a case by case thing.

But we don't scale backwards people unquantifiably below someone else yeah. It's considered only when you can have an idea of the strength gap.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

@Assalt

The point I'm getting across is that I think the galaxy statement works the same way. I'd be a lot more likely to treat "the power OF an entire galaxy" as legitimate, as opposed to "all the power IN the galaxy".

That's just my two cents. I can 100% agree and see why this wouldn't be accepted, especially when comparing it to the powers of the rest of the verse.

 

[Drag-O-Drawgon]

Ummm...

There are multiple enemies (ones stated above, wraiths, other things I'm probably forgetting) that are ghosts, and show it by being intangible to blocks, unlike most normal enemies. Also, enemies don't attack other enemies, so that question is null.

That's all I will say on this topic. I'll let everyone else finish this.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Hmm. News to me; I thought this was a universal rule.

And Queen Bee is not only unquantifiably below Wall of Flesh, it is pretty significantly below.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

1. Except that the Falling Stars item are a real thing within Terraria despite being neither stars or meteor. The Starfury is just an extension of that. Also the description outright states that the stars come from the Sky.

2. Did you know that A) Lightning speed varies and isn't the same all the thing and that B) The standards were different back then

They're just lightning bolts generate from the Vortex Pillar, with some portals aiming it at the Terrarian.

4. We do though. A lot.

5. See above.

6. I guess that reality warping a planet isn't 5-B anymore and is just hax. Not that it matters, we scale it to the Wall of Flesh via it being able to directly contain the spirits. Unless the spirits are now Unknown all around with only one specific hax being 6-C.

7. Doesn't matter what the purpose of said thing is, it still happens and is directly caused by the mechanical bosses.

8. I guess that there is almost no power difference between the King Slime and the Moon Lord because armor and stuff just makes it "easier"?

9. I'm saying that it appearing as a transition to avoid having to animate it doesn't mean that no actual movement is involved.

10. Lunar Hook is a quote. Never mind the fact that something having "The fury of X" is a real thing in a lot of fiction, so you can't just slap "hyperbole" on everything just via that.

1. No enemy can damage other enemies though. Also the dungeon spirit is stated to be a spirit and moves through walls like a spirit. This is more than what we usually ask for soul destruction.

2. Not really. Stuff like the progression of events and NPCs' daily stuff is also accelerated, implying that everyone is also accelerated, just that it's not shown.

5. Except there is no logical reason at all why it wouldn't be applicable for combat. It can damage both organic and inorganic stuff, alongside being able to destroy things on the Terrarian's level (Lizahard Dungeon bricks)

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Drag-O-Drawgon

Wraiths still don't have the evidence of being raw souls. Intangible, sure, but intangibility isn't exclusive to ghost-like beings. Meteor Heads, Animated Weapons, and many bosses are capable of phasing through tiles in addition to several projectiles.

And NPCs can attack other NPCs, actually. All non-enemy NPCs can kill wraiths, from the wrench-throwing Mechanic to the bow-wielding Guide. The only thing needed to harm them is damage; you don't need to be the player or have a special weapon.

 

[Drag-O-Drawgon]

@Drag-O-Drawgon

Wraiths still don't have the evidence of being raw souls. Intangible, sure, but intangibility isn't exclusive to ghost-like beings. Meteor Heads, Animated Weapons, and many bosses are capable of phasing through tiles in addition to several projectiles.

And NPCs can attack other NPCs, actually. All non-enemy NPCs can kill wraiths, from the wrench-throwing Mechanic to the bow-wielding Guide. The only thing needed to harm them is damage; you don't need to be the player or have a special weapon.

And, you just proved yourself wrong.

As you said they are intangible, yet imply that they aren't ghosts, but every friendly NPC has a feat of hitting an intangible being, and thus, every friendly NPC in Terraria can hit an intangible being (because feats), and there is not much more evidence against these enemies being ghosts. And the behavior of the enemies you listed would make them pretty stupid to not be intangible to blocks, cause otherwise the bosses would be easy to exploit (just look at Golem), and the others would just get stuck on blocks like idiots without any shenanigans.

 

[Keeweed]

I really don't want to respond to this thread, but I think the solar tablet should atleast scale to Plantera. The Lizard people in the game seem to have a rivalry or at least hatered of the Moonlord. When Plantera dies the Dungeon Spirits go berserk and when the Golem dies the Cultist show up (and one of the achievements says the Lunatic Cultist owns the dungeon). So I think Plantera should scale to the tablet because it holds the key to the temple that houses the Golem, who keeps the Cultist and Monnlord at bay. (Also the time manipulation does effect the NPC, I know because I use it to complete the anglers quest faster) (but that's all I have to say and i really didn't want to respond to this thread)

 

[Jinsye]

How the **** the Golem keeps the Moonlord and Cultist at bay is never known. Like the boss is pathetic.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Getting stuck on blocks isn't an excuse. That happens to the vast majority of enemies anyway. The bosses can already be exploited; Plantera can be killed without being hit once with the weakest possible armor using a very basic setup.

Also just being a mechanic to avoid getting stuck is an argument for game mechanics, and thus not having true intangibility (which would make sense since inanimate objects (naturally occurring, too) like boulders and Lizhard traps still kill them. In fact, is there a single instance in which they use intangibility to avoid anything but tiles? It seems like literally anything in the verse can harm them.

Thanks for making that point.

 

[Keeweed]

How the **** the Golem keeps the Moonlord and Cultist at bay is never known. Like the boss is pathetic.

Not even Calamity death mode can make him good

 

[Keeweed]

Also I been wondering do the souls of light, dark, sight, fright, and might count as souls?

 

[Drag-O-Drawgon]

Also I been wondering do the souls of light, dark, sight, fright, and might count as souls?

Those are literal souls that the Terrarian can carry in his inventory. They also ignore gravity and (you guessed it) blocks.

Welp, I'll leave this thread to you guys now. (ok, anytime I say this again, ignore it)

 

[Assaltwaffle]

How the **** the Golem keeps the Moonlord and Cultist at bay is never known. Like the boss is pathetic.

He doesn't. It's game progression; if it wasn't every lower boss is stronger than the higher one and King Slime is the one true God of Terraria.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Drag-O

OK, the souls of light/dark/fright/etc is a good point. But even still Terraria can't harm them, and he cant rip them out of enemies, only collect them after death. So it wouldn't be combat applicable.

 

[Keeweed]

@Drag-O

OK, the souls of light/dark/fright/etc is a good point. But even still Terraria can't harm them, and he cant rip them out of enemies, only collect them after death. So it wouldn't be combat applicable.

But the corruption and hallow made those souls different and since the Terrarian holds both corruption and purification powder he should be able to corrupt or purify souls, like he did for the tax man in Hell.

 

[Drag-O-Drawgon]

And the intangible enemies from before not taking damage (traps are arguable) would actually make a really unfair game, so as of now, game mechanics can go either way, especially with the souls of (bla bla bla). (also, if I say I'll leave to everyone in this thread again, ignore it)

 

[Mand21]

Is it me or the stars coming from the sky doesn't even mean they come from space? For all we know they could come from the stratosphere. Is there any reason to believe the "sky" goes any further beyond that stratosphere-like height a player can reach by building as tall as you can build and using wings to fly as high as you can fly until the ceiling is touched?

 

[Drag-O-Drawgon]

Is it me or the stars coming from the sky doesn't even mean they come from space? For all we know they could come from the stratosphere. Is there any reason to believe the "sky" goes any further beyond that stratosphere-like height a player can reach by building as tall as you can build and using wings to fly as high as you can fly until the ceiling is touched?

The background is black when you reach that height. Not sure at what point in the atmosphere the sky turns black, though.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Saikou

1. Yes, they come from the sky and aren't meteors or stars, so why would they come from the asteroid belt? The highest possible distance would be stratosphere, and that still isn't proven since these stars from the Starfury have different properties than normal stars (can't be seen traveling from the top of the map; can exist during the day; different trail; different color).

2. If real cloud-to-ground lightning is seen, it is the safest possible assumption that the lightning that shows to be real is the average speed, and the other is lower.

I'm on mobile, so I can't look at it, but doesn't the Vortex Pillar lightning get spawned out of portals, not clouds?

4. In what instances does an unquantifiably superior character jump tiers? Two wrongs don't make a right.

More coming.

 

[Keeweed]

^ It's called the space biome and there are Martians that come from Mars in a short amount of time in the game. (Granted not enough to be FTL but still faster than any human way of travel)