TenSura LN Major Revision - Raphael is a Regeneration Device

[Astral_Trinity439]

YAP INCOMING

HG:High Godly
MG:Mid-Godly
LG:Low-Godly

Based on the arguments provided, it appears inconsistent with High-Godly Regeneration

- HGR: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, soul, and at least one other fundamental aspect of a character's existence.

To begin with, infinite regeneration requires Magicules, Since infinite regeneration consumes magicules for physical regeneration, if the magicules themselves are erased, the regeneration process should theoretically be impossible. This dependency on magicules implies that it’s not an automatic recovery from complete erasure, as HGR would demand. You shouldn't depend on anything to get HGR; it must be your natural ability.

Already clarified that Magicules aren't the only thing that can be utilized for using skills in the sandbox, so argument from ignorance.

The Core Must Survive': Infinite Regeneration being a skill located in the Heart Core means the core needs to stay intact for the regeneration to work. This contradicts High-Godly standards because High-Godly Regeneration wants the character to recover even if the core (or any essence containing their skills and abilities) is erased.
"It grants the user ridiculously powerful regenerative properties, vastly superior to those afforded by Ultraspeed Regeneration. Any type and amount of damage that doesn't outright kill the user can be instantly regenerated." -Tensura Wiki.



The ability can't even regenerate you from absolute destruction, thus disqualifies for HGR instantly.

Already clarified that infinite regeneration would have already been erased. You're outright ignoring what I said in the sandbox. So again, argument from ignorance.

Raphael is actually inside Rimuru's core (or at least the soul); your own scan says that. "But deep down, in a heart he should never have had, in a corner of Rimuru’s soul—a will was born." Raphael resides inside the corner of Rimuru, so if Rimuru dies, then so does Raphael.

That does not mean if his soul is destroyed, Raphael will be too. Since Raphael is also called Soulless, it means it also has some level of independency from Rimuru's own Soul.

Additionally, I already elaborated upon the case where Raphael could have been destroyed as well in the OP, so again, argument from ignorance.

Now you got the soul resurrection part absolutely wrong and out of context. Raphael did not regenerate any souls because none of them were destroyed, and even if she regenerated, they were completely annihilated but more like damaged from being outside their bodies.

*Grammar
Your own wording is contradicting yourself.
This scan would like to say nuh uh, restoring the soul completely is also possible by making a completely new one.
Also, that's already dealt with by the second scenario I presented in the OP and the sandbox, which you're ignoring, so again, argument from ignorance spammed.

When Farmuth Kingdom destroyed the tempest federation, including Shion, and many others died, and their souls were about to vanish into the sky, but the barrier they created kept them residing around the federation. It's blatantly stated that without the barrier, the souls would vanish and no ability would keep them coming back.

A heavy "Did not know" type of scenario, because Rimuru [Raphael] also completely regenerated the enemies of the empire later during the eastern empire war arc even tho the attacks Carrera had used had destroyed their Soul.
The only beings Raphael could not resurrect were the ones whose heart core or ego had been destroyed, but that's also already explained in the OP as to the fact that Raphael didn't have a backup or had analyzed the heart core of those individuals beforehand.

So no soul destruction happened; Raphael just resurrected the souls and put them back in their bodies after Rimuru became Demon Lord. Raphael objectively does not bring souls back from like nothingness.

If by that you mean "destruction of both the heart core and the ego included" by "from nothingness", yes, it directly cannot, but it indirectly can as clarified in the sandbox by already having a backup of Rimuru as well as infinite regen. So again, ignorance.

Raphael’s Backup Ability: While Raphael can make a "backup (as you call it)" for skills like Beelzebuth, this ability doesn’t necessarily imply that Raphael can regenerate Rimuru’s entire existence from total erasure. Simple as that. Rimuru =/= Beelzebuth, come on, bro. This at best qualifies for skill creation.

That argument is backed up with nothing; Rimuru's Beelzebuth resides in his heart core, which implies if Raphael can copy the skill itself, copying all of the heart core is not far off.

This is also backed up by the fact that in alternate timelines, Great Sage and Raphael [in separate timelines where Rimuru didn't have infinite regen] managed to keep Rimuru alive from hinata's disintegration and the empire's attacks[that has many individuals capable of using disintegration] respectively, despite the earlier case being so clear in the fact that Rimuru was erased by Disintegration before he reached tempest and became a demon lord[and gained infinite regen].

This proves that even Great Sage is capable of backing up the entirety of Rimuru, as well as surviving disintegration by possibly backing itself up in the VoTW. Raphael would obviously be far superior.

Also, the fact that both Raphael and Great Sage can usurp[forcefully control] VoTW[the world system], and are also a part of it[part of the laws of the world], something like a backup in VoTW is not far fetched at all.

About Meltslash: To be fair, new arguments don't give anything new to Meltslash's ability. Rimuru can still outlast damage with infinite regen before getting erased, even if he takes the attack head-on. This can be why Raphael was confident it wasn't a threat to themselves.

Infinite regeneration regenerates the physical body in that context, also, nothing physical can exceed the speed of light in tensura verse. So saying that "Rimuru can outlast and outperform disintegration or melt slash] when said abilities work at the speed of light is outright inconsistent and nonsense.

Or Melt Slash is a fraud. Yes, it doesn't matter no matter how many times it states an existence erasure attack. This is clearly anti-feat for it; this simply shows that it never was an attack strong enough to erase someone and can be bypassed by outlasting it.

Argument from ignorance, your assumption has no proof solidifying it.

Incidentally, it was necessary to interfere with the spirit in order to damagethe mind. As represented by “Disintegration,” the “information particles”could not be reached without destroying the spirit.

So yes, it can indeed reach the core/information particles.
Another part to back that up even more is Perlix's scenario which I linked at the end of the OP, where his info particles and soul as a whole were indeed disintegrated, so yeah, argument from ignorance once again.

Another argument can be about it's inconsistency: Fuse forgot that Rimuru wasn't supposed to take an EE attack directly and not get erased at that time; this would also explain everything.

Nothing to back up that argument.

-Moreover, the blog is literally arguing that Rimuru can regenerate “infinitely” and thus qualifies for High-Godly.

No? WTF
I ctrl+f my sandbox myself for the term "Infinitely" and I see no results. Now you're making things up -_-

But there's a catch this “infinite” regeneration relies on magicules as a power source. High-Godly Regeneration is about restoring yourself from complete and absolute erasure, body, soul, concept n everything. Needing magicules clearly shows a limitation if Rimuru's source of magicules were cut off or totally erased, he wouldn't regenerate. HGR requires the ability to come back without relying on external resources or energy, so calling it HGR just doesn’t add up here.

Soul energy exists, once again.
And for the part that soul was erased, Raphael exists.
Raphael may be an independent entity from Rimuru's heart core, but it is still Rimuru's own ability. So no, it's not "external resources" as you say it.

- It’s also mentioned that Rimuru’s regeneration depends on his core surviving, which totally goes against what HG should be. If Rimuru’s core is destroyed or erased, then he can't regenerate. With true HG, there’s no “core” or specific point of survival it’s about coming back from absolutely nothing, no matter how thoroughly you’re erased. Needing this core actually shows a limit in his regeneration, not a strength.

Already clarified in the sandbox that all skills, even if they share the same name, are different in potency. That "needs the core" is shion's skill, not Rimuru's. So your argument itself is inconsistent and from ignorance.

Additionally, the blog seems to bring up that Rimuru can survive attacks like Meltslash, implying it’s enough to justify HG. But the problem is that Meltslash doesn’t fully EE someone’s existence on every possible LEVEL it’s an attack that can kill but isn’t a guaranteed form of “Absolute EE” that HG would cover. So even if Rimuru survives it, that’s more of a feat against a specific attack, not a qualification for regenerating from complete High-Godly-level erasure, also this argument brings up that Raphael can “backup” certain skills like Beelzebuth and other abilities, making it sound like Rimuru’s protected even if he's erased. But again, there’s a problem. Raphael is essentially backing up individual skills, not Rimuru’s entire existence. HG requires the ability to return completely, not just to restore certain abilities. If every part of Rimuru was erased, a skill backup wouldn’t rebuild his entire being ~~~Raphael isn’t a true “restore from scratch” mechanism.

Already clarified that in the OP as well, how regeneration will indeed Rimuru's entire being[including even Raphael itself], and how Raphael would still regenerate Rimuru [including even its own shell] via backup from VoTW.

So all of this shows that Rimuru’s regen isn’t really HG. He fits more into LG or MG because his whole existence depends on things like magicules and his core being intact. That’s not the kind of self-sufficiency or resilience you’d need to truly qualify for HGR

In conclusion, all of your arguments were either from ignorance or pure assumptions with no backup.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

If the argument is that Raphael is regenerating Rimuru, then it's a resurrection or healing I guess, not regeneration.

It doesn’t matter if it's high-godly or whatever. I won’t be participating in this thread. But I just wanted to say that it's a resurrection or healing if he's being revived thanks to Raphael (an external factor). As you said, they are two different concepts altogether, despite sharing the same body, and even if you're arguing for type 8 immortality. Either way it doesn't suit for Regeneration.

Raphael is not entirely an "External factor", no, even if its a skill that has some level of independency, in the end, its still Rimuru's own skill/power, so no, it's indeed regeneration.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Well, for starters, Infinite Regeneration is a skill that requires magicules to use, which should instantly mean that it would be impossible to use the skill after a complete erasure of the person.

Already explained how it does not necessarily need magicules in the sandbox, argument from ignorance.

This scan is not completely correct due to this:

Okay, so, why are you using an arc where it was great sage and not raphael to argue against Raphael, when the difference in potency is so great?
Great Sage cannot analyze the Soul, as said in the scan, thus why those measures were needed, but Raphael can indeed analyze souls.

For those who can't understand, the problem is very simple, Raphael declares CLEARLY and DIRECTLY that he would be able to regenerate from a direct hit, but says that he would regenerate the PHYSICAL BODY, Raphael makes it clear that the blow would destroy Rimuru's physical body, but it doesn't say anything about the soul or core, so assuming that the "direct blow" described by Rimuru is talking about destroying the soul, core and physical body is fallacious, since only the physical body is clearly pointed out.

Not really, Raphael did only talk about regeneration of physical body via infinite regen, but it didn't say soul wouldn't be destroyed either.
Even more so, the same attack had earlier destroyed Beelzebuth, a skill that resides in Rimuru's heart core, even tho at that time Rimuru had tried to block it and not take a "direct hit".

In addition to Hinata's attack not targeting or trying to erase Rimuru's soul, as it was not her goal to kill Rimuru, she even tried to aim at a place that wouldn't kill him, so assuming that Hinata tried to erase the Rimuru's soul or something doesn't make any sense.

That's another scenario, not Raphael's scenario where it would be a "direct hit", you're connecting two things that aren't related -_-

And if I'm not mistaken, the melt slash does not destroy the spiritrons instantly, I believe the downgrade OP already mentioned this, but, even if we consider that the attack would hit Rimuru's soul (something that is not stated/pointed out),

No, see the end of the OP where I mentioned Perlix's example for context.

survival of Rimuru may well be because he regenerates his soul before it is completely destroyed. In addition to nothing pointing out that Rimuru's soul would be destroyed, there is also nothing pointing out, declaring or showing that Infinite Regeneration would bring him back even if his soul were COMPLETELY erased.

NO. That's outright inconsistent due to this:

Infinite regeneration regenerates the physical body in that context, also, nothing physical can exceed the speed of light in tensura verse. So saying that "Rimuru can outlast and outperform disintegration or melt slash] when said abilities work at the speed of light is outright inconsistent and nonsense.

The OP unfortunately didn't specify much about what soul energy is, so I decided to do my research, and according to what I researched, soul energy is an energy that exists in the soul, it can be used for things like casting spells, soul energy is part of the structure of the soul.



As shown in the OP scan itself, a character without a soul loses the ability to use such energy, as the energy is part of the structure of the soul itself, which means that no ability can be used with soul energy if the soul is destroyed or something, so obviously he doesn't support HGR at all, since if the character's existence is erased (including the soul), he would be unable to use such a thing.

Mind you, "Soul energy" was for a scenario where he would not have any magicules left to regenerate his physical body.

Also, infinite regen itself would be an exception to this since clearly, even for shion's case, it could keep regenerating her being as long as her heart core was not destroyed [that means soul being destroyed is not a problem for this skill].
And, for the heart core part itself, saying "so rimuru's skill is limited to that too" is not an argument since all skills, even if they have the same name, have different potencies.

The main argument for regen is still Raphael's existence, not infinite regen's existence.

Another problem I have with the OP is very simple, the OP stated that magicules are not necessary to regenerate the soul due to the existence of "soul energy", which has no evidence, the OP just shows that soul energy exists, and no statement/evidence that soul energy is stated to be used to reform/regenerate the soul in place of magicules or anything of the sort.

Where did I say Soul energy could be used to regenerate the soul itself? That's your own assumption.
I said it can be used as a replacement in case Rimuru runs out of magicules, but not a permanent measure.

Also, as stated above, infinite regen is a clear exception to both the magicules part and the soul energy part due to how shion utilized it.

The real evidence about HGR was about the "fact" of Rimuru and Raphael pointing out that Rimuru would have been completely destroyed, body, soul, mind, his entire existence would be erased, but as Raphael not only does not declare such a thing, but directly states that what would be destroyed/erased would be the physical body, nothing says/evidences that the soul would be destroyed, or that Infinite Regeneration would bring him back if (after) his soul was completely erased, that's just NLF.

That's a problem with you for ignoring the clear evidence of how disintegration does reach the heart core.
It's also ignoring the fact that Raphael said "the physical body can be regenerated", it didn't say the soul would not have been destroyed, that assumption is open when backed up by further context, which is indeed the case as shown by the scenario with Perlix and Shion.

In short, you only focused on one or two points from the OP and sandbox while completely ignoring the rest, resulting in a heavy argument from ignorance.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Raphael is not entirely an "External factor", no, even if its a skill that has some level of independency, in the end, its still Rimuru's own skill/power, so no, it's indeed regeneration.

Then it’s not high godly if you claim they are the same. Make up your mind whether you are arguing they are different concepts or the same. If you claim they are the same, then it’s still mid-godly. Raphael having a separate consciousness doesn’t make it high godly. If you argue they are different, then it’s resurrection or healing because it would be considered an external factor due to being separate concepts, even though they share the same body.

Either way, as long as regeneration is done through skills, that’s healing or resurrection. Regeneration is something that occurs naturally.

 

[Tempestdragon6]

don't bother with them astral they won't listen they are ignorant

 

[Berga14]

Either way, as long as regeneration is done through skills, that’s healing or resurrection. Regeneration is something that occurs naturally.

90% of wiki regenerations is from abilities/skill. As long as it's passive is okay.

 

[CelestialVortex01]

don't bother with them astral they won't listen they are ignorant

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Then it’s not high godly if you claim they are the same. Make up your mind whether you are arguing they are different concepts or the same. If you claim they are the same, then it’s still mid-godly. Raphael having a separate consciousness doesn’t make it high godly. If you argue they are different, then it’s resurrection or healing because it would be considered an external factor due to being separate concepts, even though they share the same body.

I already explained it, they are the same in some sense and separate in another sense. Raphael is independent of Rimuru insofar as that it can exist completely without him, but at the same time, Raphael is still Rimuru's own power. So this case falls under neither your first case nor your second case.

Either way, as long as regeneration is done through skills, that’s healing or resurrection. Regeneration is something that occurs naturally.

Not really, as long as its the user's own ability and passive, it works. That's how more then half of the profiles having regeneration on this wiki go about.

 

[Vietthai96]

Either way, as long as regeneration is done through skills, that’s healing or resurrection. Regeneration is something that occurs naturally.

Addition, Regeneration mean your phisology capable of regenerating yourself back, if not then it isn't regen

 

[Berga14]

your phisology

Not necessary physiology, even a passive spell is okay.
The important things are:
1) the effect need to be from the user
2) needs to be passive

 

[Godsatoshi23]

Not necessary physiology, even a passive spell is okay.
The important things are:
1) the effect need to be from the user
2) needs to be passive

You should probably check this thread. Which explains clearly even if the spell is passive it still comes under healing.
Thread 'Problem with the healing page explanation' https://vsbattles.com/threads/problem-with-the-healing-page-explanation.168562/

 

[Vietthai96]

Not necessary physiology, even a passive spell is okay.
The important things are:
1) the effect need to be from the user
2) needs to be passive

If it is a spell then it fall under either healing, resurrection or restoration depend on contexts and feats, passive or not

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I already explained it, they are the same in some sense and separate in another sense. Raphael is independent of Rimuru insofar as that it can exist completely without him, but at the same time, Raphael is still Rimuru's own power. So this case falls under neither your first case nor your second case.

You’re contradicting yourself now. I already addressed this, and you’re just repeating the same thing.

Either you make them separate entities and get High-Godly resurrection or healing, or make them a single entity and disqualify them for High-Godly. There’s no in-between because it’s either Rimuru’s concept is completely erased or not. So, Raphael surviving is an anti-feat for complete erasure if you argue that she and Rimuru are the same. If not, if you claim she is a different concept, then it’s clearly resurrection or healing.

Not really, as long as its the user's own ability and passive, it works. That's how more then half of the profiles having regeneration on this wiki go about.

90% of wiki regenerations is from abilities/skill. As long as it's passive is okay.

Well, just downgrade them, then.

Not necessary physiology, even a passive spell is okay.
The important things are:
1) the effect need to be from the user
2) needs to be passive

@DarkGrath response

So if someone has 'died' and they bring themselves back to life, that's resurrection. If someone loses some part of their form and passively gains it back, that's regeneration. If someone loses some part of their form and actively gets it back, that's healing. And if someone has died and they bring themselves back to life, with their their lost parts of their form naturally coming back in the process, that would be resurrection and regeneration.

The moment you argue that Raphael is bringing Rimuru back, it already disqualifies it as natural regeneration. I won’t continue further, as I’ve already provided my arguments and even posted the staff's words here. Anything else is just a waste of my time if Tensura supporters here still don’t get it.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

you have to wait 3 months if you want to reverse an accepted CRT

the last thread has agreed that they do this instead of continuing on the thread where it was downgraded

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Before we go anywhere too far in the wrong direction, I need to clear up, "Infinite regeneration" is not a Spell, but rather a skill. It is very important to difference the two in the series, since they function very differently.

More importantly, Infinite Regeneration is an Intrinsic skill for demon slime, and to explain how it works here is a quote from the wiki

Intrinsic skills ｢固有能力スキル, koyū sukiru｣ are skills inherent to the physiology of the user, typically obtained from birth or through evolution.

My point is even though his "infinite regeneration" being a skill "a intrinct skill" in this case, would not disqualify it from being regeneration. Since the skill just represents a property of the physiology.


It should be noted that infinite regeneration, as well as all other "regeneration" skills only works on the user.


Also something That I think is important to this is that Raphael is a part of RImuru but the same time not. As mentioned, the high godly regeneration will be dependent on immortality 8 (Raphael)

The reason why I bring this up, While Raphael is currently a part of Rimuru, she is not bound by him. What I mean by this, is that if he truly were to die, Raphael would still exist, and just wait for a new user to awaken it. It is very hard to explain exactly how it works though.


I do hope I cleared some stuff up, Since I don't wanna be a main debater, just wanna clear some misunderstandings up. Even though I am far from the best at explaining/debating things

 

[Fixxed]

Not necessary physiology, even a passive spell is okay.
The important things are:
1) the effect need to be from the user
2) needs to be passive

"Passive" in here mean it are already a essential nature of your being that will occur even without your will or consciousness

It is why healing is "Active", because it need "will" to happen, whatever it is your will or someone will or something's "will"

Passive in here not mean like infinite speed, so passive spell are healing. Your own being must regenerate your being

 

[Berga14]

Passive" in here mean it are already a essential nature of your being that will occur even without your will or consciousness

yep, i just thought that spell if passive could count as well (not that it metters in this crt)

Passive in here not mean like infinite speed, so passive spell are healing. Your own being must regenerate your being

This is what is happeing, Raphael isn't a spell or some 3rd party.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Yes, the assumption that Rimuru would have survived Melt Slash via Infinite Regeneration was based on a "Direct Hit" principle, not some "Could have been dodged" one. Melt Slash, under this assumption, would have really destroyed Rimuru, Soul and All.

We know Rimuru can have a limited reaction to Melt Slash. Just because Rimuru takes a direct hit from Melt Slash doesn't mean that even if he takes the hit, he can't avoid taking all of Melt Slash's damage.

Yes, a direct stab strike to the chest restricts us human's movement, so you're unlikely to be able to prevent the blade from reaching your heart, but Melt Slash isn't the type of attack that would restrict Rimuru's movement.

I'll look into the rest later.

 

[Dog3352]

Okay, so, why are you using an arc where it was great sage and not raphael to argue against Raphael, when the difference in potency is so great?
Great Sage cannot analyze the Soul, as said in the scan, thus why those measures were needed, but Raphael can indeed analyze souls.

Shion's soul sent an encrypted message from inside the barrier, confirming that her soul was still there, so being Raphael or not doesn't matter at all.
There is still no regeneration of the soul being completely erased.

Not really, Raphael did only talk about regeneration of physical body via infinite regen, but it didn't say soul wouldn't be destroyed either.
Even more so, the same attack had earlier destroyed Beelzebuth, a skill that resides in Rimuru's heart core, even tho at that time Rimuru had tried to block it and not take a "direct hit".

Hinata herself was targeting a part of Rimuru's body so as not to kill him, if she wanted to destroy his soul, that would be useless, so it's quite obvious that she wasn't going to destroy his soul.

That's another scenario, not Raphael's scenario where it would be a "direct hit", you're connecting two things that aren't related -_-

It's the same scene, the blow is used against Rimuru near the end of chapter 5, after that, chapter 6 focuses on several other things, and only near the end of chapter 6 (which is the scan in your OP), Rimuru and Raphael mentions Melt Slash and starts talking about that attack.
Rimuru even talks about using Beelzebuth to stop the attack, which was exactly what he used against the last blow Hinata used on him (Melt Slash), making it more than obvious that he is talking about that moment.

https://tensurafan.github.io/read/v7

Mind you, "Soul energy" was for a scenario where he would not have any magicules left to regenerate his physical body.

Also, infinite regen itself would be an exception to this since clearly, even for shion's case, it could keep regenerating her being as long as her heart core was not destroyed [that means soul being destroyed is not a problem for this skill].
And, for the heart core part itself, saying "so rimuru's skill is limited to that too" is not an argument since all skills, even if they have the same name, have different potencies.

The main argument for regen is still Raphael's existence, not infinite regen's existence.

Soul Energy cannot be used if you don't have the soul, so this is an anti-feat.

Where did I say Soul energy could be used to regenerate the soul itself? That's your own assumption.
I said it can be used as a replacement in case Rimuru runs out of magicules, but not a permanent measure.

Also, as stated above, infinite regen is a clear exception to both the magicules part and the soul energy part due to how shion utilized it.

You said in your own OP that the reason soul regeneration doesn't use magicules is due to the existence of Soul Energy.

That's a problem with you for ignoring the clear evidence of how disintegration does reach the heart core.
It's also ignoring the fact that Raphael said "the physical body can be regenerated", it didn't say the soul would not have been destroyed, that assumption is open when backed up by further context, which is indeed the case as shown by the scenario with Perlix and Shion.

In short, you only focused on one or two points from the OP and sandbox while completely ignoring the rest, resulting in a heavy argument from ignorance.

Raphael made it clear that the physical body would be regenerated, nothing about the soul or anything like that, assuming this is NLF, in addition to Hinata herself trying her best not to kill Rimuru and even targeting a specific corner of his body so as not to kill him. , which would be pointless if she was trying to destroy his soul.

 

[Meli_Tempest]

in addition to Hinata herself trying her best not to kill Rimuru and even targeting a specific corner of his body so as not to kill him. , which would be pointless if she was trying to destroy his soul.

Rafael and rimuru were talking about a hypothetical case where he would have taken a direct hit from "Melt Slash", so, this argument is wrong at the root.

It's not that hard to understand, for crying out loud.

 

[Dog3352]

Rafael and rimuru were talking about a hypothetical case where he would have taken a direct hit from "Melt Slash", so, this argument is wrong at the root.

It's not that hard to understand, for crying out loud.

-That even if I didn't use "Gluttonous King Beelzebuth to cancel the attack, I wouldn't be killed even when hit by Melt Slash" head on?

It is more than clear that they are talking about that attack, nothing talks about anything hypothetical, stop inventing things without evidence.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Soul Energy cannot be used if you don't have the soul, so this is an anti-feat.

• A soul is crystallized energy[3] defining one's collective consciousness, thoughts, ideas, virtual memory, they also cover the Spiritual and Astral Body[4] as well as their skills[5], all of which are made of Information[6].

My friend, first learn what the soul is, then discuss something about the things that concern the soul, okay?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

You’re contradicting yourself now. I already addressed this, and you’re just repeating the same thing.

Either you make them separate entities and get High-Godly resurrection or healing, or make them a single entity and disqualify them for High-Godly. There’s no in-between because it’s either Rimuru’s concept is completely erased or not. So, Raphael surviving is an anti-feat for complete erasure if you argue that she and Rimuru are the same. If not, if you claim she is a different concept, then it’s clearly resurrection or healing.

Fiction is not a place for 0s and 1s, a scenario must not be limited to merely 2 cases.
Rimuru's own concept was erased, but Raphael is its own concept[conceptual intelligence].
Yet at the same time, it is still Rimuru's power.

That's why immortality type 8 exists, to link 2 things/entities, and that link can extend to making them not "external" to each other.

HGR is about regenerating from your fundamental aspects, something that is necessary for one's existence under normal circumstances.

A simplified logical example I can give you is accidental qualities. They're not inherent to the substance that possesses them, nor completely dependent on them ["Three-sided-ness" cannot exist without something being a triangle", but "Red-ness" can exist without a triangle being red], If you erase the concept of "Triangles", it does not inherently erase "Red-ness", but it also does not stop "Red-ness" from being linked[as being an accidental quality] to a triangle either].

If we extend this to Raphael and Rimuru, Raphael is an accidental quality/aspect while his own heart core is a fundamental aspect. Raphael is still tied to Rimuru, insofar as that "it's an accidental quality of X-thing" and is thus not an "External factor", but it's also not dependent on each other to exist [red-ness can exist without triangle-ness and triangle-ness can exist without red-ness].

Therefore, the regeneration is not done by an external factor but rather by an internal yet accidental factor.

Shion's soul sent an encrypted message from inside the barrier, confirming that her soul was still there, so being Raphael or not doesn't matter at all.

Doesn't really have anything to do with "can it do it" or not.

There is still no regeneration of the soul being completely erased.

Mind you, no, after it evolved into Raphael, it could regenerate a soul fully.

Hinata herself was targeting a part of Rimuru's body so as not to kill him, if she wanted to destroy his soul, that would be useless, so it's quite obvious that she wasn't going to destroy his soul.

Targetted at a part of Rimuru's body or not, skills[that reside in the heart core] cannot be reached by destroying the outer layers that cover the soul.

Incidentally, it was necessary to interfere with the spirit in order to damagethe mind. As represented by “Disintegration,” the “information particles”could not be reached without destroying the spirit. ~ Volume 19

It's the same scene, the blow is used against Rimuru near the end of chapter 5, after that, chapter 6 focuses on several other things, and only near the end of chapter 6 (which is the scan in your OP), Rimuru and Raphael mentions Melt Slash and starts talking about that attack.
Rimuru even talks about using Beelzebuth to stop the attack, which was exactly what he used against the last blow Hinata used on him (Melt Slash), making it more than obvious that he is talking about that moment.

https://tensurafan.github.io/read/v7

He and Raphael are taking that moment as an example for Raphael's assumption regarding Rimuru's survival chances.

And, stop contradicting yourself for once.
You stated yourself in the part before that "Hinata herself was targeting a part of Rimuru's body", yeah no, that's not a "direct hit", mind you. On the other hand, the scenario that Raphael was assuming later on was not only that "If Rimuru didn't use Beelzebuth to block it" but also "Rimuru took on a direct hit".

Soul Energy cannot be used if you don't have the soul, so this is an anti-feat.

Once again, there's nothing stopping Infinite Regeneration from being an exception to that since it's directly said that Infinite regen can keep working for Shion as long as the heart core is not destroyed. Which, if you haven't forgotten, is a step below Rimuru's version of it.

Also, would you mind going through the tensura physiology pages and learning what "Soul Energy" actually is? It's not the Soul itself, unlike what you're misunderstanding it as due to the name, rather, it refers to the quantity and quality of infons/data particles in the heart core inside the soul:

Raising the dead…Ever since Shion’s death, Raphael had been busying itself analyzing the structure of souls. Now it seemed like it was well on its way to figuring out almost all the principles.

Whether it belongs to a human being or a monster, all souls have a set quality and quantity. It is composed of matter known as data particles, and through managing and applying certain forces to them, it’s possible to control life and death to some extent.

The souls of plants and animals house only a very tiny amount of energy. Human souls, meanwhile, have tons and tons. We’ve already confirmed that a certain amount is given to everyone equally, and the ability to fully hardness that soul energy leads to the manifestation of soul powers—or what we call special skills. This data, engraved in your soul since birth, is the source of those powers.

You said in your own OP that the reason soul regeneration doesn't use magicules is due to the existence of Soul Energy.

Read it again my dude:

However, strictly speaking, these Magicules are only necessary when regenerating the Physical Body, not the Soul, which is because the Physical Body is made of Magicules (it's a Magicule-Bade Corpus). Because essentially, Skills instead need a thing called "Soul Energy" to work: [PS, I fixed a type here and replaced the term "Soul" for "Skills, I highlighted the word I replaced.]

First off, it weakens you a lot. Which, yeah, of course it does—I took all their soul energy out. I’ve taken their souls, and there’s no real reason for me to give them back, and I don’t see how they have any right to complain about it. So thanks to that, they’re no longer able to invoke any skills. Even if skill data was written into their hearts, they can’t use it at all without enough soul energy. From now until the natural end of their lives, they’ve got no hope of learning or using a single skill. —OTL Light Novel; Volume 13, Epilogue; The Deeds Of A Demon Lord

That is to say, Infinite Regeneration only requires Magicules when regenerating the Physical Body, because the Physical Body is made up of Magicules. It can also, however, perfectly work without it as long as the user has enough Soul Energy

.I'm very clearly saying that Soul Energy can be used as a replacement for magicules, not "Soul energy can be used to regenerate the soul" -_-

Raphael made it clear that the physical body would be regenerated, nothing about the soul or anything like that, assuming this is NLF, in addition to Hinata herself trying her best not to kill Rimuru and even targeting a specific corner of his body so as not to kill him. , which would be pointless if she was trying to destroy his soul.

For one, stop using Hinata's example when Raphael's assumption was based on 2 more conditions added. Conditions different, results different, that's a basic thing anyone can understand.

For two, Disintegration IS a spell that erases both the physical body AND the Soul. Because Hinata's case was not directly aiming at Rimuru as to not try to kill him, the soul was not completely destroyed, but it partially still was, proven fully by the fact that you cannot reach the heart core[information particles and skills] without destroying the outer layers. Scan for that in one of my earlier parts of my replies to you.

For third, and last, Raphael's assumption is a direct hit, a new condition that wasn't present when Hinata did it. I'mma repeat myself, conditions different, results different. So stop assuming your own "NLF" scenarios when there's 0 evidence to support your claims, other than the unnecessary links you're making between non-related scenarios.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

We know Rimuru can have a limited reaction to Melt Slash. Just because Rimuru takes a direct hit from Melt Slash doesn't mean that even if he takes the hit, he can't avoid taking all of Melt Slash's damage.

Yes, a direct stab strike to the chest restricts us human's movement, so you're unlikely to be able to prevent the blade from reaching your heart, but Melt Slash isn't the type of attack that would restrict Rimuru's movement.

I'll look into the rest later.

You're giving an example of a physical attack[which Rimuru is immune to] to elaborate on a spiritual attack.... not the best example...

Also, how are you concluding "he will avoid talking all of Melt Slash's damange"?
Also, for the "that would restrict Rimuru's movement", except, he cannot have movement in comparison to Melt Slash since he's not faster then SoL....

If you're saying "he'll dodge it in advance via thought acceleration", no, that wouldn't count as a "direct hit" to begin with, thus contradicting the starting conditions.

 

[CodeCCLL]

You're giving an example of a physical attack[which Rimuru is immune to] to elaborate on a spiritual attack.... not the best example

Yes, a direct stab strike to the chest restricts us human's movement, so you're unlikely to be able to prevent the blade from reaching your heart, but Melt Slash isn't the type of attack that would restrict Rimuru's movement

Are you sure you understand what I'm saying?

Also, how are you concluding "he will avoid talking all of Melt Slash's damange"?

There is a period of time between the moment the attack hits the body and the moment it destroys the core. Therefore, this period can save the core from complete destruction.

Also, for the "that would restrict Rimuru's movement", except, he cannot have movement in comparison to Melt Slash since he's not faster then SoL....

If you're saying "he'll dodge it in advance via thought acceleration", no, that wouldn't count as a "direct hit" to begin with, thus contradicting the starting conditions.

Yet I knew. I knew full well what had just happened... Because I had seen that same exact technique used before. It was the ultimate holy sword art, 'Melt Slash'-the strongest technique developed by Hinata.

"-Everyone, spread out!"

Heeding Hinata's order, the combatants reacted quickly. The swiftness of their actions did not dishonor their titles, yet they were still too slow. Granbell struck with 'Melt Slash'. This act alone sent out a fan-like shockwave.

Hinata dashed out at that instant and blocked Granbell's sword in front of him. Her movement was impressively fast, but that alone was not enough to block Granbell's attack entirely.

Hinata herself can already react to Granbell's Melt Slash.

 

[Dog3352]

• A soul is crystallized energy[3] defining one's collective consciousness, thoughts, ideas, virtual memory, they also cover the Spiritual and Astral Body[4] as well as their skills[5], all of which are made of Information[6].

My friend, first learn what the soul is, then discuss something about the things that concern the soul, okay?

Bruh, this literally doesn't refute anything I said, the scan itself says that soul energy is part of the structure of the soul, if there is no soul, there is no soul energy.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Are you sure you understand what I'm saying?

Are you referring to how Disintegration keeps the target in place while Melt Slash doesn't?

There is a period of time between the moment the attack hits the body and the moment it destroys the core. Therefore, this period can save the core from complete destruction.

And that's the problem, how will he do that?

Even more so, such feable attempts to prevent core destruction aren't even useable.

There was no way to temper it in a feeble attempt to reduce its lethality. That’s why she could only rarely use it.

Also, adding on to this:

The sword she wielded had the power to dispel and evaporate all types of evil.

Report. Unable to defend. Unable to evade…!

I had never heard Raphael sound legitimately panicked before. Even with my senses enhanced a millionfold, the light looked like it was going at regular speed—a sign of just how fast she was going.

Hinata herself can already react to Granbell's Melt Slash.

This very much can mean that she just noticed Granbell was about to use Melt Slash in advance and moved in to block it. Otherwise it would contradict the whole premise of the LN for the "Nothing physical can exceed SoL" assumption, since her coming in to block the attack is still considered physical movement.

Also, you're forgetting that the whole point of this is not "can Rimuru dodge it" but rather "what happens if Rimuru takes on a direct hit". No dodging is involved here, it's just Rimuru standing as is and experiencing melt slash directly.

 

[Dog3352]

Mind you, no, after it evolved into Raphael, it could regenerate a soul fully.

Right, but that doesn't prove that Raphael is capable of creating a soul from 0 for Rimuru if he is completely killed.

Targetted at a part of Rimuru's body or not, skills[that reside in the heart core] cannot be reached by destroying the outer layers that cover the soul.

Which doesn't refute the fact that Hinata wasn't going to destroy Rimuru's soul, even Raphael confirms that he would regenerate Rimuru's body, and doesn't say anything about the soul.

He and Raphael are taking that moment as an example for Raphael's assumption regarding Rimuru's survival chances.

And, stop contradicting yourself for once.
You stated yourself in the part before that "Hinata herself was targeting a part of Rimuru's body", yeah no, that's not a "direct hit", mind you. On the other hand, the scenario that Raphael was assuming later on was not only that "If Rimuru didn't use Beelzebuth to block it" but also "Rimuru took on a direct hit".

Still a fallacy, the attack used by Hinata would still be a direct hit, she just wasn't aiming for the soul or any vital point, a direct hit is something that completely/directly hits the target, this doesn't refute anything.

Rimuru himself says "Even if I didn't offset it with Beelzebuth, Lord of Gluttony, could I not have been killed by a direct hit from Melt Slash?", the "didn't" part is a word that is part of the past participle, being an event that OCCURRED in the past (therefore, speaking directly of that blow), if you were talking about ANOTHER attack, you would have to mention something like "possibility" (a possible alternative event), which would be something like "would have", instead of "have been".

Read it again my dude:

I'm very clearly saying that Soul Energy can be used as a replacement for magicules, not "Soul energy can be used to regenerate the soul" -_-

However, strictly speaking, these Magicules are only necessary when regenerating the Physical Body, not the Soul, which is because the Physical Body is made of Magicules (it's a Magicule-Bade Corpus). Because essentially, Skills instead need a thing called "Soul Energy" to work: [PS, I fixed a type here and replaced the term "Soul" for "Skills, I highlighted the word I replaced.]

Clearly there is a change in the OP, since when I took the screenshot, you said that magicules did not regenerate the soul because souls need soul energy.

However, strictly speaking. these Magicules are only sary when regenerating the Physical Body, not the Soul, which is because the Physical Body is made of Magicules (it's a Magicule-Bade Corpus). Because essentially, Souls instead need a thing called "Soul Energy" to work:

For one, stop using Hinata's example when Raphael's assumption was based on 2 more conditions added. Conditions different, results different, that's a basic thing anyone can understand.

For two, Disintegration IS a spell that erases both the physical body AND the Soul. Because Hinata's case was not directly aiming at Rimuru as to not try to kill him, the soul was not completely destroyed, but it partially still was, proven fully by the fact that you cannot reach the heart core[information particles and skills] without destroying the outer layers. Scan for that in one of my earlier parts of my replies to you.

For third, and last, Raphael's assumption is a direct hit, a new condition that wasn't present when Hinata did it. I'mma repeat myself, conditions different, results different. So stop assuming your own "NLF" scenarios when there's 0 evidence to support your claims, other than the unnecessary links you're making between non-related scenarios.

No.

What the hell are you talking about? No part of Rimuru's soul was destroyed, he used Beelzebuth to completely stop the attack, there is nothing that hints at any kind of soul destruction, even Raphael says that Rimuru's body would regenerate from a direct attack, and not on his soul.

What the hell kind of argument is that? A DIRECT ATTACK/HIT is something that HITS THE PLACE BEING TARGETED, which is exactly what Hinata's attack would be, you have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to indicate that with "direct attack/hit" Raphael is talking about another attack or anything like that, Rimuru's question is literally exactly about Hinata's attack that was parried.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Right, but that doesn't prove that Raphael is capable of creating a soul from 0 for Rimuru if he is completely killed.

Read before saying something.

A skill that created a fully new soul for its target

Although its from Ciel, given that Raphael can manipulate info particles as well, its likely she can do this too:

«‘Isolation’ of the “information particles” that constituted Clayman’s ‘heart’ has been completed. Would you like to combine them together to make up for Teare’s missing components?»

Rimuru only had Clayman's heart

I didn’t want to leave such a thing behind, and I thought Clayman would be happier to return to his friends rather than to remain in my body. Perhaps, Ciel-san could have revived Clayman completely.

Source for both: Volume 19

Which doesn't refute the fact that Hinata wasn't going to destroy Rimuru's soul, even Raphael confirms that he would regenerate Rimuru's body, and doesn't say anything about the soul.

Not really, no, just because Hinata "didn't want to kill Rimuru" wouldn't reduce the lethality of Melt Slash. Also, Hinata only shows the attack to those she wants to kill.
Additionally, the "wasn't going to kill Rimuru" isn't even fully true, since Hinata did consider the scenario of killing Rimuru as well, she still assumed that it could still kill him. Because just because she aims at another spot does not mean the lethality of the technique is reduced and soul destruction is prevented.

You're again forgetting that even Hinata's own attack destroyed Beelzebuth, a skill, that kinda stuff resides in the heart core, and to reach the heart core, you need to destroy the soul first.

Still a fallacy, the attack used by Hinata would still be a direct hit, she just wasn't aiming for the soul or any vital point, a direct hit is something that completely/directly hits the target, this doesn't refute anything.

Not really. Rimuru said "even if I took a direct hit", which means Hinata's previous attack that had hit Rimuru but aimed not directly at him is not a direct hit.

To begin with, just because Hinata didn't aim at a lethal area wouldn't reduce the lethality of the strike to begin with.
Even more so, even if it did not directly aim at Rimuru, that would still does not matter because the attack also purifies[erases] everything in the area around it.
It being a fallacy is merely your own conclusion that purposely does not take into account other context.

I wonder what kind of "Research" you did when reading the volume if you missed this part.

Rimuru himself directly quotes that attack, and Raphael responds by saying THE attack, making it very clear that Raphael was talking about that specific attack, and Rimuru was also quoting him.

Him quoting hinata's attack does not make Raphael's assumption have the same conditions, no.

Clearly there is a change in the OP, since when I took the screenshot, you said that magicules did not regenerate the soul because souls need soul energy.

"Souls" was a typo, the right word meant there was skills. If that's what you're getting at, then yeah, that's a mistake on my part for not double-reading everything for potential typos.

No.

Not really, nothing suggests otherwise.

What the hell are you talking about? No part of Rimuru's soul was destroyed, he used Beelzebuth to completely stop the attack, there is nothing that hints at any kind of soul destruction, even Raphael says that Rimuru's body would regenerate from a direct attack, and not on his soul.

Is this the "research" you did?
If you have trouble remembering the contents of the scans which you probably didn't even read carefully, or trouble connecting the dots between what I said:

• Hinata's attack destroyed Beelzebuth
• Beelzebuth resides in the Heart Core
• To reach the heart core[to destroy beelzebuth], you need to destroy the layers covering the heart core[soul, astral body, spiritual body]
• Thus, because Beelzebuth was destroyed, it means the heart core was reached, which then means that the soul was, even if not completely, still partially destroyed.

Once again, those points do not require too much brainstorming to connect the dots in-between.

Additionally, Disintegration destroys soul and physical body. Just because hinata didn't aim directly at Rimuru does NOT reduce its lethality[scans already linked above].
For disintergration:

The request, delivered in Hinata’s beautiful voice, was granted. The resulting show of force was literally divine, enough to crush all physical and spiritual presences within its defined space. It was the ultimate in targeted, destructive magic, emitting flashes of white light as it poured from Hinata’s hands to the circle. It sped out at thousands of miles per hour, almost at light speed, as its holy power made cells and souls vanish without a trace. It was more than enough to make the Glutton disappear, not affecting the space around it at all. ~ Volume 5

Melt Slash is the same.

What the hell kind of argument is that? A DIRECT ATTACK/HIT is something that HITS THE PLACE BEING TARGETED, which is exactly what Hinata's attack would be, you have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to indicate that with "direct attack/hit" Raphael is talking about another attack or anything like that, Rimuru's question is literally exactly about Hinata's attack that was parried.

Not really. Rimuru said "even if I took a direct hit", which means Hinata's previous attack that had hit Rimuru but aimed not directly at him is not a direct hit.

To begin with, just because Hinata didn't aim at a lethal area wouldn't reduce the lethality of the strike to begin with.
Even more so, even if it did not directly aim at Rimuru, that would still does not matter because the attack also purifies[erases] everything in the area around it.
It being a fallacy is merely your own conclusion that purposely does not take into account other context.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Which doesn't refute the fact that Hinata wasn't going to destroy Rimuru's soul, even Raphael confirms that he would regenerate Rimuru's body, and doesn't say anything about the soul

Do you have any idea how many "bodies" term there are in Tensura (material body, magical body, spiritual body, astral body)?

I said, the scan itself says that soul energy is part of the structure of the soul, if there is no soul, there is no soul energy.

The soul itself is already a kind of energy, and regenerated the soul also means reproduced energy.

 

[Dog3352]

Read before saying something.

Although its from Ciel, given that Raphael can manipulate info particles as well, its likely she can do this too:

Rimuru only had Clayman's heart

Source for both: Volume 19

This still doesn't prove that Raphael continues to exist even if Rimuru's existence is completely erased.
And it doesn't even prove that Raphael, without a body or anything like that, would be able to use "Secret Art of Resurrection" + "Secret Art of Revival", since he used it while he was in control of Rimuru's body.

And the scan you use to prove the opposite doesn't prove anything, since Raphael declares "to be in the corner of Rimuru's soul", declaring to be inside Rimuru, and "in a heart he should never have had" is talking about feelings, Raphael was talking about his inability to feel happiness or sadness, and soon after he talks about the "heart that he (Raphael) should never have", talking about emotions, as he "shouldn't" have those emotions.

Not really. Rimuru said "even if I took a direct hit", which means Hinata's previous attack that had hit Rimuru but aimed not directly at him is not a direct hit.

To begin with, just because Hinata didn't aim at a lethal area wouldn't reduce the lethality of the strike to begin with.
Even more so, even if it did not directly aim at Rimuru, that would still does not matter because the attack also purifies[erases] everything in the area around it.
It being a fallacy is merely your own conclusion that purposely does not take into account other context.

I wonder what kind of "Research" you did when reading the volume if you missed this part.

"Even if I didn't offset it with Beelzebuth, Lord of Gluttony, could I not have been killed by a direct hit from Melt Slash?"

Clearly he doesn't say he was hit, where the hell are you getting that from? In addition to the but, the LN clearly says that Rimuru sacrificed beelzebuth to neutralize the attack, also saying that beelzebuth would consume the attack, the manga makes it clear that Rimuru did not suffer any injuries.

Hinata aimed for a "non-lethal" location because she believed Rimuru would be able to regenerate if only his head remained, making it clear again that she was aiming for a location so as not to fully disintegrate Rimuru's body if Hinata wanted to destroy his soul, her change of aim would be completely useless, it doesn't make any sense for Hinata to be careful not to completely disintegrate Rimuru's body if she was going to destroy his soul anyway, it's pretty obvious that Hinata would only destroy the his body.

I've never argued that Melt Slash doesn't affect magicules, but Hinata's attack wouldn't kill Rimuru anyway, as it wouldn't completely destroy Rimuru, given that she was aiming at a location that wouldn't completely destroy Rimuru, her completely destroying Rimuru's body and destroying his soul would completely go against what she wanted.

Him quoting hinata's attack does not make Raphael's assumption have the same conditions, no.

Raphael's only "speculation" is about Rimuru spending a large amount of magicules, there is no mention of any other attack other than the one Hinata used against Rimuru, she is just answering Rimuru's question, who clearly asks about the attack used by Hinata in the fight.

Souls" was a typo, the right word meant there was skills. If that's what you're getting at, then yeah, that's a mistake on my part for not double-reading everything for potential typos.

Right

Is this the "research" you did?
If you have trouble remembering the contents of the scans which you probably didn't even read carefully, or trouble connecting the dots between what I said:

• Hinata's attack destroyed Beelzebuth
• Beelzebuth resides in the Heart Core
• To reach the heart core[to destroy beelzebuth], you need to destroy the layers covering the heart core[soul, astral body, spiritual body]
• Thus, because Beelzebuth was destroyed, it means the heart core was reached, which then means that the soul was, even if not completely, still partially destroyed.

Once again, those points do not require too much brainstorming to connect the dots in-between.

Additionally, Disintegration destroys soul and physical body. Just because hinata didn't aim directly at Rimuru does NOT reduce its lethality[scans already linked above].
For disintergration:

This definitely didn't happen, Rimuru summoned beelzebuth at the last moment to stop the attack before it reached him (this is even clearer in the manga), he sacrificed beelzebuth for that.

Same thing as before, the attack didn't hit Rimuru. Obviously the attack would be less lethal, since if not, it wouldn't make any sense for Hinata to target another location, in addition to Hinata not wanting to kill Rimuru, much less erase his soul.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Do you have any idea how many "bodies" term there are in Tensura (material body, magical body, spiritual body, astral body)?

The soul itself is already a kind of energy, and regenerated the soul also means reproduced energy.

It's not the Soul itself, unlike what you're misunderstanding it as due to the name, rather, it refers to the quantity and quality of infons/data particles in the heart core inside the soul:

Maybe the point is being missed? His argument doesn't revolve around the soul strictly, he's saying the existence of soul energy as a replacement for magicules is an indicator of the heartcore not being destroyed.

My point is even though his "infinite regeneration" being a skill "a intrinct skill" in this case, would not disqualify it from being regeneration. Since the skill just represents a property of the physiology.


It should be noted that infinite regeneration, as well as all other "regeneration" skills only works on the user.

The souls of plants and animals house only a very tiny amount of energy. Human souls, meanwhile, have tons and tons. We’ve already confirmed that a certain amount is given to everyone equally, and the ability to fully harness that soul energy leads to the manifestation of soul powers—or what we call special skills. This data, engraved in your soul since birth, is the source of those powers.

The conclusion we reached in that thread is that regeneration is simply a natural ability to recover as a living thing but to heightened extents. To my knowledge, intrinsic skills are the same as others with the exception being they're engraved in the body and not the soul or heartcore. This unfortunately is the same as passive/active healing we covered in the thread. A skill is still engraved data, virtually still a spell and thus isn't regeneration especially when one considers no healing will be done without stuff like magicules or soul power.

Anyway, I'll try to drop a detailed opinion of this thread later would much prefer a thread done by code but for now I'll wait and see what he thinks about this. I was asked to take a look and planned to be lackadaisical when doing so but...

First and foremost, the CRT used the same repeated arguments from this CRT in the past, which had already been rejected. You can read the counterarguments against the OP from there for more details.

And I took that personally.

 

[Dog3352]

I will no longer comment on this CRT, anyway, if this is accepted, I or someone else will do a downgrade CRT.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

The conclusion we reached in that thread is that regeneration is simply a natural ability to recover as a living thing but to heightened extents. To my knowledge, intrinsic skills are the same as others with the exception being they're engraved in the body and not the soul or heartcore. This unfortunately is the same as passive/active healing we covered in the thread. A skill is still engraved data, virtually still a spell and thus isn't regeneration especially when one considers no healing will be done without stuff like magicules or soul power.

From my own knowledge, this is simply wrong. It being a instrinct skill has nothing to do with it being soul or body-mind, And it should be mentioned that for example, Shions "infinite regeneration is a "extra skill" while Rimuru's is a instrinct skill. An instrinct skill means that it is bound to the physiology of the user. Meaning it doesn't disqualify it from regeneration that way.

As mentioned earlier this can't be compared to a spell or magic that is simply wrong.

Saying it disqualifies it without magicules is honestly dumb (I don't know how to phrase it in any other way, so I apologize for being a bit rude) Saying something cost stamina or mana as an argument for disqualifying as regeneration is stupid.

Now If you could prove that it functioned as a spell, it would be a different story. But it doesn't.
Also saying it is engraved in data is not a real argument since Data(information) is litterly the root of everything within the verse.

 

[CodeCCLL]

His argument doesn't revolve around the soul strictly, he's saying the existence of soul energy as a replacement for magicules is an indicator of the heartcore not being destroyed.

This is seems like what you think than what he thinks.

Hinata herself was targeting a part of Rimuru's body so as not to kill him, if she wanted to destroy his soul, that would be useless, so it's quite obvious that she wasn't going to destroy his soul.

He literally claims that even if Melt Slash had direct hit Rimuru, it would have only destroyed his physical body.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Fiction is not a place for 0s and 1s, a scenario must not be limited to merely 2 cases.

Calling it fiction doesn’t mean you get a pass on everything.

Rimuru's own concept was erased, but Raphael is its own concept[conceptual intelligence].
Yet at the same time, it is still Rimuru's power.

That's why immortality type 8 exists, to link 2 things/entities, and that link can extend to making them not "external" to each other.

HGR is about regenerating from your fundamental aspects, something that is necessary for one's existence under normal circumstances.

A simplified logical example I can give you is accidental qualities. They're not inherent to the substance that possesses them, nor completely dependent on them ["Three-sided-ness" cannot exist without something being a triangle", but "Red-ness" can exist without a triangle being red], If you erase the concept of "Triangles", it does not inherently erase "Red-ness", but it also does not stop "Red-ness" from being linked[as being an accidental quality] to a triangle either].

If we extend this to Raphael and Rimuru, Raphael is an accidental quality/aspect while his own heart core is a fundamental aspect. Raphael is still tied to Rimuru, insofar as that "it's an accidental quality of X-thing" and is thus not an "External factor", but it's also not dependent on each other to exist [red-ness can exist without triangle-ness and triangle-ness can exist without red-ness].

Therefore, the regeneration is not done by an external factor but rather by an internal yet accidental factor.

If it’s HGR, then he’s being completely erased along with Raphael and coming back from complete Erasure without help of Raphael if you claim both are single existence, or it’s HG resurrection. If you say Rimuru is revived or regenerated due to Raphael, then Raphael and Rimuru are different concepts sharing the same body.

If you claim Raphael and Rimuru are the same existence, but one gets erased and the other revives the one who was erased, then it disqualifies as HGR because it does not regenerate from complete erasure.

These are the only three possible outcomes you will get. There are no HGR arguments on your end. What you claim as HGR either shows that you don't understand it's a resurrection (if you claim they have different concepts), or you are contradicting yourself by claiming they are the same existence (technically you are debunking yourself and it only grants MGR). Otherwise, prove he can come back from complete erasure without Raphael's help.

 

[Meli_Tempest]

This definitely didn't happen, Rimuru summoned beelzebuth at the last moment to stop the attack before it reached him (this is even clearer in the manga), he sacrificed beelzebuth for that.

Same thing as before, the attack didn't hit Rimuru. Obviously the attack would be less lethal, since if not, it wouldn't make any sense for Hinata to target another location, in addition to Hinata not wanting to kill Rimuru, much less erase his soul.

There is a direct statement that in order to reach the core information all layers of the soul must be destroyed, Belzebuth (which is IN THE CORE) was completely DESTROYED. That same statement says that you cannot reach the information particles without destroying the spirit.

Nothing you say here works AT ALL, and only demonstrates ignorance.

I repeat again in case it is not clear: You cannot DESTROY an US without destroying all the other layers of the soul.

 

[Meli_Tempest]

He literally claims that even if Melt Slash had direct hit Rimuru, it would have only destroyed his physical body.

It would have destroyed everything, it's not like Melt Slash can change from destroying everything to just destroying the physical body, it's impossible.

The request, delivered in Hinata’s beautiful voice, was granted. The resulting show of force was literally divine, enough to crush all physical and spiritual presences within its defined space. It was the ultimate in targeted, destructive magic, emitting flashes of white light as it poured from Hinata’s hands to the circle. It sped out at thousands of miles per hour, almost at light speed, as its holy power made cells and souls vanish without a trace. It was more than enough to make the Glutton disappear, not affecting the space around it at all. ~ Volume 5

 

[Dog3352]

There is a direct statement that in order to reach the core information all layers of the soul must be destroyed, Belzebuth (which is IN THE CORE) was completely DESTROYED. That same statement says that you cannot reach the information particles without destroying the spirit.

Nothing you say here works AT ALL, and only demonstrates ignorance.

I repeat again in case it is not clear: You cannot DESTROY an US without destroying all the other layers of the soul.

Are you reading the scan? Rimuru used beelzebuth as a "shield" so that the blow wouldn't hit him, sacrificing him "temporarily", the manga makes this even clearer.

The LN itself says "the attack would be neutralized" if he sacrificed beelzebuth, in addition to saying that Hinata's attack would be consumed by beelzebuth.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Are you reading the scan? Rimuru used beelzebuth as a "shield" so that the blow wouldn't hit him, sacrificing him "temporarily", the manga makes this even clearer.

He literally still lost 70% of his magicules even after blocking it.the fact that the ability was erased means it reach his heart core.