TenSura LN Major Revision - Raphael is a Regeneration Device

[Dog3352]

He literally still lost 70% of his magicules even after blocking it.the fact that the ability was erased means it reach his heart core.

Him losing magicules doesn't prove anything, and absolutely not, the LN itself says that he sacrificed beelzebuth for the blow to be NEUTRALIZED, even saying that beelzebuth would consume Hinata's attack (so he doesn't take damage obviously), and the manga makes it clear that Rimuru didn't take any damage.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Him losing magicules doesn't prove anything, and absolutely not, the LN itself says that he sacrificed beelzebuth for the blow to be NEUTRALIZED, even saying that beelzebuth would consume Hinata's attack (so he doesn't take damage obviously), and the manga makes it clear that Rimuru didn't take any damage.

Also for the manga.the page after that he literally falls down cause 70% of his magicules was erased (literally same scene in anime except anime skipped over the dialogue. (Also that is the amount he STORED ) and he stores it inside his stomach.be that his aura,things he eats,and everything else.

Note: monsters are made out of magicules

 

[Dog3352]

Also for the manga.the page after that he literally falls down cause 70% of his magicules was erased (literally same scene in anime except anime skipped over the dialogue. (Also that is the amount he STORED ) and he stores it inside his stomach.be that his aura,things he eats,and everything else.

Note: monsters are made out of magicules

Yes, I know that your magicules dropped by 70%, I read chapters 5 and 6, but it doesn't change the fact that the attack didn't cause any damage to Rimuru, much less hit him, as the attack was consumed and neutralized by beelzebuth.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Yes, I know that your magicules dropped by 70%, I read chapters 5 and 6, but it doesn't change the fact that the attack didn't cause any damage to Rimuru, much less hit him.

in terms of damage, it probably wiped out over 70 percent of my store.


Which, hey, it's fine as long as I'm alive...but what a scary attack

 

[Dog3352]

in terms of damage, it probably wiped out over 70 percent of my store.


Which, hey, it's fine as long as I'm alive...but what a scary attack

Yes, he says that using beelzebuth to neutralize the attack consumed 70% of his magicules, I'm not seeing the point here, the attack hasn't hit him yet or anything.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Yes, he says that using beelzebuth to neutralize the attack consumed 70% of his magicules, I'm not seeing the point here, the attack hasn't hit him yet or anything.

Where do you think the magicules come from? Also it very clearly hit him. The plan was to swallow it up with Beelzebub. Something simple that shouldn’t take magicules. But that isn’t how it worked. Beelzebub was erased and he lost over 70%

 

[The_golden_and_silver_house94]

Hinata was can still use mathematician even after her soul got destroyed.
She was revived using the skill

 

[Dog3352]

Where do you think the magicules come from? Also it very clearly hit him. The plan was to swallow it up with Beelzebub. Something simple that shouldn’t take magicules. But that isn’t how it worked. Beelzebub was erased and he lost over 70%

Rimuru planned to SACRIFICE the beelzebuth ability to stop the attack (he sacrificed it, but Raphael revealed that he could make the ability "come back" because it was stored), he sacrificed it to neutralize the ability and does not suffer damage, the manga makes it very clear that he did not suffer damage.

Rimuru spending 70% of his magic for something like that doesn't refute anything, and he even had to go to the point of sacrificing a skill to stop the attack, in addition to making it very clear how dangerous that attack was, so it's pretty obvious that stopping that attack was not a "simple task".

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

He's saying that he spent magicules, not that the place where the magicules came from was destroyed or anything like that, and that wasn't simple at all, Rimuru needed to SACRIFICE his beelzebuth to cancel the attack The plan was to SACRIFICE beelzebuth, he was going to permanently sacrifice the ability to stop the attack, despite Raphael saying he recovered the ability in chapter 6. Beelzebuth wasn't erased, and that wasn't the plan, Rimuru sacrificed beelzebuth, that was the plan, of course activating an ability that reaches a point of almost sacrificing her permanently would use magicules.

A whole lot of yap that the scan I sent already clearly explains.70% of his STORED magicules were erased. With obviously means that it has to reach where it is stored in the first place. the thread has already explained multiple times where the skills are located. (I won’t be responding anymore since you simply don’t like to read.)

 

[Dog3352]

A whole lot of yap that the scan I sent already clearly explains.70% of his STORED magicules were erased. With obviously means that it has to reach where it is stored in the first place. the thread has already explained multiple times where the skills are located. (I won’t be responding anymore since you simply don’t like to read.)

Bruh, Rimuru SPENT the stored energy to stop the attack, nothing says that the magicules were erased by the attack, it says that Rimuru consumed the magicules (with beelzebuth) to cancel the attack.

And as I said/showed, beelzebuth was used as a shield so that the attack was nullified, the Melt Slash didn't go through Rimuru's body and destroy the skill, Rimuru cast the skill for to be destroyed and nullify the attack to save himself.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Hinata was can still use mathematician even after her soul got destroyed.
She was revived using the skill

Reread your scan again. If you still don't understand what your scan is saying, then mark where it states that her soul was destroyed.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Bruh, Rimuru SPENT the stored energy to stop the attack, nothing says that the magicules were erased by the attack, it says that Rimuru consumed the magicules (with beelzebuth) to cancel the attack.

And as I said/showed, beelzebuth was used as a shield so that the attack was nullified, the Melt Slash didn't go through Rimuru's body and destroy the skill, Rimuru cast the skill for to be destroyed and nullify the attack to save himself.

The magicules where purified (erased) rimuru could no longer use magic perception which is based on them.
Gluttony doesn’t even use magicules in the first place based on the fact that it can still be used in holy field where magicules don’t exist.. So him losing magicules wasn’t based on it.melt slash is even more powerful then hinata sword which destroys your spiritual body on the 7th strike. It is a spiritual attack so it does no damage physically. A sword cut would do no damage to your body.

 

[Tatsumi504]

This is seems like what you think than what he thinks.

I guess since that was my own understanding of it.

He literally claims that even if Melt Slash had direct hit Rimuru, it would have only destroyed his physical body.

I wanted to ask, is there any other feat of disintegration/meltslash destroying information bodies besides when Beelzebub was destroyed?

 

[Vietthai96]

Hinata was can still use mathematician even after her soul got destroyed.
She was revived using the skill

I'm not really interest in this thread but i happen to see this comment so i'm confused, since you claimed that Hinata soul is destroyed, yet the scan say:

Hinata died right here. Granville's attack can crush people's souls as well. That's why Chloe absorbed Hinata's soul and jumped back into the past

Hinata's consciousness alone was stored in her unique skill - the remain of her soul

Hinata's consciousness stayed here because her skill was rooted in her soul. If you planted this skill back in Hinata's body, wouldn't that revive her?

Isn't all of this mean her soul still exist??

 

[Dog3352]

The magicules where purified (erased) rimuru could no longer use magic perception which is based on them.

Rimuru directly stated which magic was "purified"/erased by Hinata's attack, which were the magicules in the surrounding area, besides, he never said that his universal perception is bad due to his own magicules being purified or anything like that, but because the magicules in the surrounding area were "purified".
If his magicules were erased by Hinata's attack, why didn't he just state it directly like he did about the surrounding magicules? Instead, he basically states that sacrificing beelzebuth to stop the attack consumed magicules.

Gluttony doesn’t even use magicules in the first place based on the fact that it can still be used in holy field where magicules don’t exist.. So him losing magicules wasn’t based on it.melt slash is even more powerful then hinata sword which destroys your spiritual body on the 7th strike. It is a spiritual attack so it does no damage physically.

Sacrificing the skill ≠ using the skill, as we have seen (as far as it is stated), Rimuru spent/used magicules to sacrifice beelzebuth.
Even in his scan Rimuru states "Canceling out Hinata's strike consumed a vast amount of magicules", he literally says that "canceling Hianata's attack consumed magicules", and not that Hinata's attack "purified"/erased her magicules, these are things completely different.

 

[Berga14]

Isn't all of this mean her soul still exist??

Sometimes "Soul" is used to indicate the entire spiritual body or some part of it.
My understanding of that part is this:

• the skills are born from the will of the user
• will and skill are in the core
• core is in the soul
• soul gets erased but the skill gets saved by the timetravel, the skill containted the part of the Will/information of Hinata that later will be used to revive her

 

[Vietthai96]

Sometimes "Soul" is used to indicate the entire spiritual body or some part of it.
My understanding of that part is this:

• the skills are born from the will of the user
• will and skill are in the core
• core is in the soul
• soul gets erased but the skill gets saved by the timetravel, the skill containted the part of the Will/information of Hinata that later will be used to revive her

No offense, but you need actual scan to support this line of logic, since scan itself say that skill rooted in the soul, the remain of soul is skill, which mean skill = soul, so if one claimed soul is destroyed then that also mean skill also is destroyed, and vice versa

 

[Berga14]

he never said that his universal perception is bad due to his own magicules being purified or anything like that, but because the magicules in the surrounding area were "purified".

So we have an attack that purifies magicules, Rimuru gets attacked, he shilds himself with belzebub which doesn't exactly require magicules and for you the motivation fro him loosing 70% of them is... due to shilding himself with a skill that doesn't require that magicules? But then around him magicules are actually erased... completely logical.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

No offense, but you need actual scan to support this line of logic, since scan itself say that skill rooted in the soul, the remain of soul is skill, which mean skill = soul, so if one claimed soul is destroyed then that also mean skill also is destroyed, and vice versa

From the looks of it, Rimuru can survive Meltslash by sacrificing just one of his skills. I don't see why he can't reduce the damage and use Infinite Regeneration to recover instead of being completely erased. Even Raphael or Rimuru never talks about being completely erased.

There are too many different simplest interpretations than just directly jumping to the big conclusion of Rimuru getting completely erased here & getting Regenerated from nothing or some damn resurrection thanks to Raphael.

 

[Tatsumi504]

From my own knowledge, this is simply wrong. It being a instrinct skill has nothing to do with it being soul or body-mind, And it should be mentioned that for example, Shions "infinite regeneration is a "extra skill" while Rimuru's is a instrinct skill. An instrinct skill means that it is bound to the physiology of the user. Meaning it doesn't disqualify it from regeneration that way.

"Bound to the physiology of the user" is exactly my point. Being bound to their physiology is in reference to obtaining the skill by being from a certain species. It is nowhere the same as a natural enhanced healing factor. Furthermore...

Intrinsic skills ｢固有能力スキル, koyū sukiru｣ are skills inherent to the physiology of the user, typically obtained from birth or through evolution.


These skills can be broadly split into three different categories, these being species-specific intrinsic skills ｢種族固有能力スキル, shuzoku koyū sukiru｣, bloodline-specific intrinsic skills, and individual-specific intrinsic skills. They usually take the form of common, extra, and resist skills, but in rare instances, unique skills or even the equivalent of ultimate skills are possible.

~Tensura Wiki​

Basically states the same thing.

As mentioned earlier this can't be compared to a spell or magic that is simply wrong.

Saying it disqualifies it without magicules is honestly dumb (I don't know how to phrase it in any other way, so I apologize for being a bit rude) Saying something cost stamina or mana as an argument for disqualifying as regeneration is stupid.

No offense taken. It's one thing if magicules, soul power simply enhance one's natural regenerative capabilities i.e. it accelerates the healing but rather it's a fuel for a skill/magic/ability to function and said ability is what performs the healing. "Without x energy, certain skills cannot function" isn't the same as "without x energy, wounds won't heal as quickly".

Now If you could prove that it functioned as a spell, it would be a different story. But it doesn't.
Also saying it is engraved in data is not a real argument since Data(information) is litterly the root of everything within the verse.

It being engraved data already separates it from something inherent to biology, the working of the verse plays no role in it. "Prove it functioned as a spell", ain't y'all the ones who agreed it is IM 2, CM, Law etc.?

 

[Dog3352]

So we have an attack that purifies magicules, Rimuru gets attacked, he shilds himself with belzebub which doesn't exactly require magicules and for you the motivation fro him loosing 70% of them is... due to shilding himself with a skill that doesn't require that magicules? But then around him magicules are actually erased... completely logical.

He "sacrificed" the skill, which is completely different from "using" the skill, so yes, the logic continues.

It is even logical to say that Rimuru's magicules, which are deeper than his physical body, were erased, when the LN declares that Rimuru sacrificed beelzebuth to NEUTRALIZE the ability (basically erase it), when there is not a single damage to Rimuru's body, when Rimuru himself declares that "cancelling Hinata's ability spent his magicules" (literally directly states that what spent his magicules was sacrificing beelzebuth, not Hinata's attack), and when Rimuru himself declares in his question to Raphael that the blow dodn't hit him.

It is completely logical to say that the attack ignored the body (it did 0 damage to Rimuru), ignored the soul, and ONLY hit Rimuru's magicules, while we totally ignore the scans that make it clear that the blow did not hit Rimuru, this seems much more logical.

 

[Hasty12345]

I disagree with the upgrade, @Dog3352 makes far more sense.

 

[Berga14]

He "sacrificed" the skill, which is completely different from "using" the skill

Except that he just used the skill, there isn't an option of "sacrifce" for skills. It's just a choice of words from Raphael cause she knew what was going to happen to belzebub.

It is even logical to say that Rimuru's magicules, which are deeper than his physical body, were erased, when the LN declares that Rimuru sacrificed beelzebuth to NEUTRALIZE the ability

Is there some word missing? Cause this doesn't really have any meaning.

when Rimuru himself declares that "cancelling Hinata's ability spent his magicules" (and not any kind of "purification), and when Rimuru himself declares in his question to Raphael that the blow didn't harm him.

First link is a gif.
Also what picture do you have in mind when you say "cancelling out the attack spent magicules"?

when Rimuru himself declares in his question to Raphael that the blow didn't harm him.

That scan doesn't say that... it says that that he wouldn't have died.
Also the loss of magiculess isn't really harm to Rimuru to begin with, he can get them from Veldora or just sleep for 3 days and that's it.

 

[Dog3352]

Except that he just used the skill, there isn't an option of "sacrifce" for skills. It's just a choice of words from Raphael cause she knew what was going to happen to belzebub.

No, he would literally permanently sacrifice the beelzebuth skill, if he was just going to use it, he wouldn't say that sacrificing the skill would be a hug loss, plus he would only find out later that beelzebuth was "not" sacrificed because Raphael told him he had a copy of skill.

So yes, sacrificing and using the ability are different things.

Is there some word missing? Cause this doesn't really any meaning.

If Rimuru neutralizes the skill, it becomes ineffective, that's the meaning of "neutralize", so the attack would have 0 effect.

First link is a gif.
Also what picture do you have in mind when you say "cancelling out the attack spent magicules"?

Wrong image, this link simply remained on my keyboard, I've already changed it.
This is declared in this image.

That scan doesn't say that... it says that that he wouldn't have died.
Also the loss of magiculess isn't really harm to Rimuru to begin with, he can get them from Veldora or just sleep for 3 days and that's it.

He says "Even if I didn't offset it with Beelzebuth, Lord of Gluttony, could I not have been killed by a direct hit from Melt Slash?".
"been" is a past participle word, basically, Rimuru indicates a possibility, which would be if the attack had hit him, making it clear that the attack did not hit him.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Rimuru directly stated which magic was "purified"/erased by Hinata's attack, which were the magicules in the surrounding area, besides, he never said that his universal perception is bad due to his own magicules being purified or anything like that, but because the magicules in the surrounding area were "purified".

I never claimed it was his own based on that reasoning. I was saying that him not being able to use it proves that it erases magicules,& therefore your reasoning of magicules being what canceled it out invalid as magicules get erased by coming in contact with it.and I was using the fact that gluttony doesn’t use magicules in the first place to prove that it wasn’t in reference to it. With magicules literally making up thier bodies.and your statement of it only destroying the physical body false as a vastly weaker skill could already destroy the spiritual body.your comments about him not getting hit are false as the ability protecting him was literally erased.

If his magicules were erased by Hinata's attack, why didn't he just state it directly like he did about the surrounding magicules? Instead, he basically states that sacrificing beelzebuth to stop the attack consumed magicules.

Sacrificing the skill ≠ using the skill, as we have seen (as far as it is stated), Rimuru spent/used magicules to sacrifice beelzebuth.
Even in his scan Rimuru states "Canceling out Hinata's strike consumed a vast amount of magicules", he literally says that "canceling Hianata's attack consumed magicules", and not that Hinata's attack "purified"/erased her magicules, these are things completely different.

To quote the series.

Raphael used Predict Future Attack to calculate the point Hinata aimed at, activating Belzebuth at that exact spot. The moment her sword HIT me, Belzebuth would swallow it all up—or so the plan went.

You can clearly see that the attack hits him. Which was the whole plan. And he didn’t use magicules to sacrifice it since he isn’t the one making it disappear in the first place,it is getting erased by meltslash. What took magicules was canceling it out and yet again gluttony doesn’t use them.really simple. Melt slash and gluttony clashed , gluttony was erased (and therefore the ability was sacrificed in order to nullify meltslash). He literally ACTIVATED the ability in order to swallow it (which he achieved but the skill was erased in the process)



Him not having wounds on his body isn’t relevant
as melt slash is spiritual in nature

 

[The_golden_and_silver_house94]

Reread your scan again. If you still don't understand what your scan is saying, then mark where it states that her soul was destroyed.

Granvell attack destroys peoples souls and what remained after hinata died i.e after granvells attack was her consciousness in her skill mathematician
Rimuru revived hinata using her skill mathematician.

 

[Dog3352]

I never claimed it was his own based on that reasoning. I was saying that him not being able to use it proves that it erases magicules,& therefore your reasoning of magicules being what canceled it out invalid as magicules get erased by coming in contact with it.and I was using the fact that gluttony doesn’t use magicules in the first place to prove that it wasn’t in reference to it. With magicules literally making up thier bodies.and your statement of it only destroying the physical body false as a vastly weaker skill could already destroy the spiritual body.your comments about him not getting hit are false as the ability protecting him was literally erased.

There's nothing important here, but anyway, I never said Melt Slash doesn't cut magicules, I said it wouldn't erase Rimuru's soul, since that was never stated or considered, they're two different things.

To quote the series.

Raphael used Predict Future Attack to calculate the point Hinata aimed at, activating Belzebuth at that exact spot. The moment her sword HIT me, Belzebuth would swallow it all up—or so the plan went.

You can clearly see that the attack hits him. Which was the whole plan. And he didn’t use magicules to sacrifice it since he isn’t the one making it disappear in the first place,it is getting erased by meltslash. What took magicules was canceling it out and yet again gluttony doesn’t use them.really simple. Melt slash and gluttony clashed , gluttony was erased (and therefore the ability was sacrificed in order to nullify meltslash). He literally ACTIVATED the ability in order to swallow it (which he achieved

No, he would literally permanently sacrifice the beelzebuth skill, if he was just going to use it, he wouldn't say that sacrificing the skill would be a hug loss, plus he would only find out later that beelzebuth was "not" sacrificed because Raphael told him he had a copy of skill.

So yes, sacrificing and using the ability are different things.

It is even logical to say that Rimuru's magicules, which are deeper than his physical body, were erased, when the LN declares that Rimuru sacrificed beelzebuth to NEUTRALIZE the ability

No, the manga scan doesn't show that the attack hit Rimuru, just that he is very close to it (even in the manga itself Rimuru says he sacrificed beelzebuth at that moment).
At the very least, prove that sacrificing a skill does not use magicules, since I have already proven that Rimuru sacrificed his skill (which is different from using it) and that Rimuru points out that this is what used up his magicules, which contradicts what you say.

Him not having wounds on his

This is quite contradictory to what is said here and here, Rimuru and Raphael clearly point out that Melt Slash would affect Rimuru's physical body, his last scan is completely contradictory to this, tell me in which chapter you found this scan so I can read the context.

 

[The_golden_and_silver_house94]

I'm not really interest in this thread but i happen to see this comment so i'm confused, since you claimed that Hinata soul is destroyed, yet the scan say:



Isn't all of this mean her soul still exist??

According to my understanding ,the ego/will is surrounded by information forming a soul
A skill is information without the ego engraved onto the soul
Granvells attack destroys hinatas soul information but not the ego,then her skill which is mathematician houses the ego forming something similar to a soul
Now naming chronoa would make hinata lose the skill ,thus there will be no information to contain her ego thus chronoa doesn't do so
Rimuru revives hinata by transplanting her skill which is housing the ego into her body

So a short summary
The will/ego is surrounded by information which then surrounded by energy(soul energy) forming a soul
A skill is information engraved on the soul
Disintegration destroys the soul but not the skill

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

This still doesn't prove that Raphael continues to exist even if Rimuru's existence is completely erased.

Already answered in the OP's counter argument section, so argument from ignorance.

And it doesn't even prove that Raphael, without a body or anything like that, would be able to use "Secret Art of Resurrection" + "Secret Art of Revival", since he used it while he was in control of Rimuru's body.

Also answered in the OP, so once again, argument from ignorance.

And the scan you use to prove the opposite doesn't prove anything, since Raphael declares "to be in the corner of Rimuru's soul", declaring to be inside Rimuru, and "in a heart he should never have had" is talking about feelings, Raphael was talking about his inability to feel happiness or sadness, and soon after he talks about the "heart that he (Raphael) should never have", talking about emotions, as he "shouldn't" have those emotions.

My man, if you don't understand what a heart or ego means in tensura, read the physiology pages. I'm not going to clarify something that is already well-explained in the physiology pages we have created for that sake. -_-

Clearly he doesn't say he was hit,

Being hit does not mean being directly hit. Do you not even know the usage of adjectives in Grammar?

where the hell are you getting that from?

From the scans, what else. Not an argument.

In addition to the but, the LN clearly says that Rimuru sacrificed beelzebuth to neutralize the attack, also saying that beelzebuth would consume the attack, the manga makes it clear that Rimuru did not suffer any injuries.

-_-
He did not suffer any physical injuries because he used Beelzebuth to neutralize the attack. However, Melt Slash destroyed Beelzebuth, which you have to reach the heart core to even achieve.

Report. Relaunching the ultimate skill Beelzebuth.

Just as the professor reported that to me, Beelzebuth swallowed up all the droplets of murderous light raining down from above.

In a moment, they wereall gone. Yikes. Set this thing to full blast, and it was a real monster. Even the paladins stared wide-eyed at me, shocked at the sight of all those missile blasts disappearing before their eyes.

But…wait a second. Didn’t I “sacrifice” Beelzebuth when I fought Hinata just now?

Understood. The ultimate skill Beelzebuth, Lord of Gluttony, was indeed sacrificed, but a copy had been backed up, so it was not a problem to reactivate.

This makes it clear that Beelzebuth was destroyed earlier when Hinata used Melt Slash herself, which proves that the attack reached the Soul.
If you can't understand that even after me breaking it down into steps that even a child can understand, that's not my problem. I'll just leave it for the staff to evaluate.

Hinata aimed for a "non-lethal" location because she believed Rimuru would be able to regenerate if only his head remained, making it clear again that she was aiming for a location so as not to fully disintegrate Rimuru's body if Hinata wanted to destroy his soul, her change of aim would be completely useless, it doesn't make any sense for Hinata to be careful not to completely disintegrate Rimuru's body if she was going to destroy his soul anyway, it's pretty obvious that Hinata would only destroy the his body.

"Probably"
Yeah, all of that is based off on an assumption, which is directly negated by the fact that such feeble attempts to reduce Melt Slash's lethality reduces nothing.
This is once again backed up by the fact that Beelzebuth was destroyed, to even destroy which you need to reach the Soul.

Instead of basing your arguments on pure "probably" assumptions, do more research, this time actual research rather than some ctrl + f quick scanning for these terms, and then make an argument.

I've never argued that Melt Slash doesn't affect magicules, but Hinata's attack wouldn't kill Rimuru anyway, as it wouldn't completely destroy Rimuru, given that she was aiming at a location that wouldn't completely destroy Rimuru, her completely destroying Rimuru's body and destroying his soul would completely go against what she wanted.

Basing off on assumptions again, argument from ignorance, when Hinata directly confirms that she was ready even if the attack kills Rimuru, and further backed up by the fact that its lethality CANNOT be reduced. Stop ignoring scans by calling them "what the hell is this" my dude.

It's not "she did not want to kill Rimuru", she just thought he wouldn't die since she has warned him, but still thought just a line later that she would be ready even if Rimuru was killed. This proves that even if "Hinata wanted to not kill him", that wouldn't do a thing and would still kill him if he hadn't used Beelzebuth, at least in Hinata's eyes.

So again, read the whole scans, preferably the whole volume, and argue afterwards. I'm here to argue how skills work, not correct someone who refuses to believe how the narrative is actually going because of a single "Probably" assumption.

Raphael's only "speculation" is about Rimuru spending a large amount of magicules, there is no mention of any other attack other than the one Hinata used against Rimuru, she is just answering Rimuru's question, who clearly asks about the attack used by Hinata in the fight.

Dude, what?
Do you know how conditions work?
Attack B without any condition is not the "same attack" as attack B + more conditions, the same as how two mathematical equations are not the same if they have different conditions. This is school level logical deduction everyone learned.
There are clearly additional conditions, "He doesn't use beelzebuth" and "he takes a direct hit".

Him spending a large amount of magicules is because his body is made up of magicules. Now I'm not gonna elaborate on something that's already explained on the physiology pages, once again, so go read them.

This definitely didn't happen, Rimuru summoned beelzebuth at the last moment to stop the attack before it reached him (this is even clearer in the manga), he sacrificed beelzebuth for that.

Key word, Sacrified. And again, keyword from another scan, "backup". Those words very clearly indicate Beelzebuth was destroyed.
Manga may have visual limitations, and skipped much from the LN, so using Manga over LN is a hard no-go here.

Same thing as before, the attack didn't hit Rimuru. Obviously the attack would be less lethal, since if not, it wouldn't make any sense for Hinata to target another location, in addition to Hinata not wanting to kill Rimuru, much less erase his soul.

Argument from ignorance, rather then focusing on a singe visual pannel that doesn't even adapt everything fully from the LN due to, well, manga expenses[whatever you call it], you refuse to understand the step-to-step explanation and continue with your own assumptions.

The fact that Beelzebuth was even destroyed by Melt Slash completely debunks your whole argument, but it seems that point is going in from one side of your head and out from another side.

Calling it fiction doesn’t mean you get a pass on everything.

I didn't mention everything, though.
There is no reason for there to not be an exception when there do exist logical exceptions to it.

Anyways, if you don't plan to understand the narrative even after me pointing it out many times, your posts will be ignored from now on, and I'll simply wait for staff to give their evaluation.

If it’s HGR, then he’s being completely erased along with Raphael and coming back from complete Erasure without help of Raphael if you claim both are single existence, or it’s HG resurrection. If you say Rimuru is revived or regenerated due to Raphael, then Raphael and Rimuru are different concepts sharing the same body.

If you claim Raphael and Rimuru are the same existence, but one gets erased and the other revives the one who was erased, then it disqualifies as HGR because it does not regenerate from complete erasure.

These are the only three possible outcomes you will get. There are no HGR arguments on your end. What you claim as HGR either shows that you don't understand it's a resurrection (if you claim they have different concepts), or you are contradicting yourself by claiming they are the same existence (technically you are debunking yourself and it only grants MGR). Otherwise, prove he can come back from complete erasure without Raphael's help.

Argument from repetition, and nothing here debunks or even addresses anything I said[including the example I gave regarding accidental and essential qualities].
If you want to understand what the latter is, read Ultima's sandbox for an explanation. That's where I got my example from.

Or, if you don't want to read the whole sandbox, a detailed explanation is also given by me here on its logical working.

 

[Dog3352]

Already answered in the OP's counter argument section, so argument from ignorance.

Also answered in the OP, so once again, argument from ignorance.

My man, if you don't understand what a heart or ego means in tensura, read the physiology pages. I'm not going to clarify something that is already well-explained in the physiology pages we have created for that sake. -_-

Heart does not always refer to the core/ego, but, as stated in its own scan, it says that Raphael exists "in the right corner of Rimuru's soul", if Raphel were in another ego/core, this statement would not make any sense. It is quite obvious from the context that heart is referring to Raphael's inability to feel emotions.

And the scan you use to prove the opposite doesn't prove anything, since Raphael declares "to be in the corner of Rimuru's soul", declaring to be inside Rimuru, and "in a heart he should never have had" is talking about feelings, Raphael was talking about his inability to feel happiness or sadness, and soon after he talks about the "heart that he (Raphael) should never have", talking about emotions, as he "shouldn't" have those emotions.

Being hit does not mean being directly hit. Do you not even know the usage of adjectives in Grammar?

From the scans, what else. Not an argument.

The word "directly" just means that it hit the exact point mentioned, there is no change in meaning, "being hit by a bullet" and "being hit directly by a bullet" are the same thing, the difference is that the second one gives a idea that the bullet hit exactly where he wanted (where he was aiming).

-_-
He did not suffer any physical injuries because he used Beelzebuth to neutralize the attack. However, Melt Slash destroyed Beelzebuth, which you have to reach the heart core to even achieve.

This makes it clear that Beelzebuth was destroyed earlier when Hinata used Melt Slash herself, which proves that the attack reached the Soul.
If you can't understand that even after me breaking it down into steps that even a child can understand, that's not my problem. I'll just leave it for the staff to evaluate.

The skill itself was sacrificed/used as a shield, this can be seen much more clearly in the manga, nothing says that Hinata's attack hit Rimuru's soul, core or ego to destroy the skill, Rimuru who used his skill as a shield sacrificing it, there is no evidence that when "sacrificing a skill", the skill remains existing only in Rimuru's core, and not outside his body (which is what the LN and the manga imply).

The skill was sacrificed, at the moment the attack was canceled/absorbed by the beelzebuth skill (Rimuru invokes the skill to absorb the attack when making the sacrifice, making it obvious that the skill does not only exist in the core when it is sacrificed), the skill in "no longer existed" due to the sacrifice, this is what the chain of events points to.

Hinata uses the attack;
Raphael says he needs to sacrifice the skill to nullify the attack;
The "sacrifice" involves Rimuru summoning beelzebuth to absorb the attack (making it clear that the attack does not only exist in the core, but the skill is invoked), sacrificing the skill;
The skill is sacrificed and the attack is nullified.

"Probably"
Yeah, all of that is based off on an assumption, which is directly negated by the fact that such feeble attempts to reduce Melt Slash's lethality reduces nothing.
This is once again backed up by the fact that Beelzebuth was destroyed, to even destroy which you need to reach the Soul.

Instead of basing your arguments on pure "probably" assumptions, do more research, this time actual research rather than some ctrl + f quick scanning for these terms, and then make an argument.

How about you prove that when Rimuru uses the skill as a "shield" (sacrifices it), the skill remains existing ONLY in Rimuru's race? Which is what really needs to be proven here, despite the manga and LN pointing out that the sacrifice of skill causes the skill to be used as a "shield" that is in front of Rimuru's body.

Key word, Sacrified. And again, keyword from another scan, "backup". Those words very clearly indicate Beelzebuth was destroyed.
Manga may have visual limitations, and skipped much from the LN, so using Manga over LN is a hard no-go here.

The manga skipped some things, but there are illustrations of others, like Rimuru using the skill himself on his arm before the Melt Slash hits him, making it very clear that the skill is not just in the core at that moment, we won't exclude it just because it is not 100% faithful to LN, neither secondary raw is 100% faithful to a primary raw in all details.

Argument from ignorance, rather then focusing on a singe visual pannel that doesn't even adapt everything fully from the LN due to, well, manga expenses[whatever you call it], you refuse to understand the step-to-step explanation and continue with your own assumptions.

The fact that Beelzebuth was even destroyed by Melt Slash completely debunks your whole argument, but it seems that point is going in from one side of your head and out from another side.

You still don't prove that when "sacrificing a skill", the skill remains existing only in the core, as I said previously, there is no reason to completely ignore the manga's images just because it skips a dialogue or a scene, what is drawn is still something that comes from LN itself.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Heart does not always refer to the core/ego, but, as stated in its own scan, it says that Raphael exists "in the right corner of Rimuru's soul", if Raphel were in another ego/core, this statement would not make any sense. It is quite obvious from the context that heart is referring to Raphael's inability to feel emotions.

Read the physiology page for god's sake...
A heart core is something that resides inside a Soul. Raphael is a heart core that resides in Rimuru's Soul, but it does not have its own Soul.
"Heart" does not mean anything else when it context to a "Core".

The very ability to "feel emotions" and be self-aware of one's own existence is what defines an "Ego".
Once again, you're refusing to read the physiology pages for no reason
Dude, stop arguing if you don't know how the verse physiologies work, or just read the pages created for the sake of understanding it.

The word "directly" just means that it hit the exact point mentioned, there is no change in meaning, "being hit by a bullet" and "being hit directly by a bullet" are the same thing, the difference is that the second one gives a idea that the bullet hit exactly where he wanted (where he was aiming).

The idea here is that Rimuru blocked the attack with beelzebuth [tho Beelzebuth was destroyed in the process] during hinata's attack, which does not count as a direct hit. On the other hand, this time he would let it hit directly without doing anything himself[in raphael's assumed scenario].

The skill itself was sacrificed/used as a shield, this can be seen much more clearly in the manga, nothing says that Hinata's attack hit Rimuru's soul, core or ego to destroy the skill,

Argument from ignorance + repetition. I will repeat myself, do not argue if you do not know the narrative working, and do not argue with the manga when it clearly has visual limitations and can skip details.

Rimuru who used his skill as a shield sacrificing it, there is no evidence that when "sacrificing a skill", the skill remains existing only in Rimuru's core, and not outside his body (which is what the LN and the manga imply).

Your own self-assumed deduction, which is completely wrong. The very fact that it was "scarified" means it did not exist any longer. You're refusing to understand what the term itself literally means -_-

How about you prove that when Rimuru uses the skill as a "shield" (sacrifices it), the skill remains existing ONLY in Rimuru's race?

What do you mean by race? Typo perhaps?

Which is what really needs to be proven here, despite the manga and LN pointing out that the sacrifice of skill causes the skill to be used as a "shield" that is in front of Rimuru's body.

The act of sacrificing comes after the skill being used, not before it -_-
And nothing here goes against my point of it reaching the heart core, tho.

The manga skipped some things, but there are illustrations of others, like Rimuru using the skill himself on his arm before the Melt Slash hits him, making it very clear that the skill is not just in the core at that moment, we won't exclude it just because it is not 100% faithful to LN, neither secondary raw is 100% faithful to a primary raw in all details.

Does not really mean or contradict it didn't reach the heart core.
Skills and Magic are basically the same except in what kind of magicules they use, realization of "Non-physical phenomenon into real life"[refer to skills and magic page].
That "tornado" or absorption thingy[whatever you call it] that Rimuru covered it with is not the actual skill but rather a phenomenon realized into real life through the skill itself. The skill still remains in the heart core, and nothing the skill [in its information type 2 form] is on his arm instead. Your assumptions are nonsensical and based on a single manga panel rather than the entire series.

Skills do not leave the heart core just to be activated, which you have no proof of otherwise other than a visually limited manga panel and a conclusion based off of that singe panel while refusing to read the physiology pages that clearly explain the working.

You still don't prove that when "sacrificing a skill", the skill remains existing only in the core, as I said previously, there is no reason to completely ignore the manga's images just because it skips a dialogue or a scene, what is drawn is still something that comes from LN itself.

I will repeat myself only once, Visual limitations for the manga part, Physiology page for the core part.
Argument from repetition and ignorance, you're basing your arguments without understanding or even reading the physiology pages, when the pages exist for the very sake of letting others understand how the verse works......
"You still don't prove that when "sacrificing a skill", the skill remains existing only in the core" Something otherwise [like your assumption] contradicts the physiology of skills, so no.

 

[Tempestdragon6]

what kind autistic behavior is this

 

[Dog3352]

Read the physiology page for god's sake...
A heart core is something that resides inside a Soul. Raphael is a heart core that resides in Rimuru's Soul, but it does not have its own Soul.
"Heart" does not mean anything else when it context to a "Core".

The very ability to "feel emotions" and be self-aware of one's own existence is what defines an "Ego".
Once again, you're refusing to read the physiology pages for no reason
Dude, stop arguing if you don't know how the verse physiologies work, or just read the pages created for the sake of understanding it.

I literally posted a scan of this, I know this very well, even if you are right that "heart" refers to the core, it is still stated that Raphael exists "in the right corner of Rimuru's soul", so unless there is something that refute this, if Rimuru is completely destroyed, so is Raphael.

And honestly, taking into account that the context talks purely about "emotions", I still believe that it is talking about emotions when it talks about the heart, and you argue that Raphael has his own heart/core separate from Rimuru's when the statement says that Raphael exists in Rimuru's soul contradicts what you are arguing, and taking into account the context talking purely about emotions, it is quite obvious that the "heart he (Raphael) should never have" is his capaciy to feel emotions, being that he was thinking purely about it before "winning this heart he should never have had" (LN makes it clear that that "heart"/emotions came into existence at that moment).

The idea here is that Rimuru blocked the attack with beelzebuth [tho Beelzebuth was destroyed in the process] during hinata's attack, which does not count as a direct hit. On the other hand, this time he would let it hit directly without doing anything himself[in raphael's assumed scenario].

I never said that hit was a direct hit, I said the "assumption" is still talking specifically about that hit, the "assumption" is if THAT hit caught on like it was supposed to.

Argument from ignorance + repetition. I will repeat myself, do not argue if you do not know the narrative working, and do not argue with the manga when it clearly has visual limitations and can skip details.

What has visual limitations is the LN, since there is an image for each 700-line text, and the manga didn't skip details, just monologues, but this is something that every manga does, therefore, it doesn't count as something "less canonical" , especially if it shows images that portray the LN in a way that does not escape what is said in the LN.

Your own self-assumed deduction, which is completely wrong. The very fact that it was "scarified" means it did not exist any longer. You're refusing to understand what the term itself literally means -_-

He sacrificed it, but Raphael reveals he had a copy of the ability, so I don't see his point.

What do you mean by race? Typo perhaps?

*Core

The act of sacrificing comes after the skill being used, not before it -_-
And nothing here goes against my point of it reaching the heart core, tho.

From the moment the skill is being used outside of Rimuru's body, this goes against what you say, the skill is sacrificed at the same moment Beelzebuth consumes the Melt Slash, nothing indicates that the blow went through the skill and reached the core, just that the act of "consuming"/using the ability and sacrificing was the same act.

Does not really mean or contradict it didn't reach the heart core.
Skills and Magic are basically the same except in what kind of magicules they use, realization of "Non-physical phenomenon into real life"[refer to skills and magic page].
That "tornado" or absorption thingy[whatever you call it] that Rimuru covered it with is not the actual skill but rather a phenomenon realized into real life through the skill itself. The skill still remains in the heart core, and nothing the skill [in its information type 2 form] is on his arm instead. Your assumptions are nonsensical and based on a single manga panel rather than the entire series.

This does not prove that a "sacrificed" skill continues to exist only within the core, it is one thing to say that just the use of the skill is just the phenomenon being brought into reality and that the skill continues to exist in the core, another thing is to say that the sacrificing a skill leaves it remaining only in the core, Rimuru is literally sacrificing the skill, not just invoking it, they are two different things.

I will repeat myself only once, Visual limitations for the manga part, Physiology page for the core part.
Argument from repetition and ignorance, you're basing your arguments without understanding or even reading the physiology pages, when the pages exist for the very sake of letting others understand how the verse works......
"You still don't prove that when "sacrificing a skill", the skill remains existing only in the core" Something otherwise [like your assumption] contradicts the physiology of skills, so no.

Same thing as before.
No, my argument does not contradict the page, the page mentions that skills/magic are phenomena brought into reality, while the real skill remains existing in the core, but nothing says about the sacrifice being the same thing as just invoking the skill, the point "Sacrificing" is literally taking the existing ability in the core itself and causing it to be destroyed by actually invoking it as a "shield" (something that can be seen in the LN itself).

If the sacrifice were just the invocation of a spell/skill existing in the core into reality, as it normally is, then there would be no sacrifice of the ability itself, since the ability itself would still only exist in the core, this would be a serious contradiction with the act of "sacrificing" a skill, then it is quite obvious that the act of using/invoking the skill is about taking the skill itself and using it as a shield bringing it into reality as a sacrifice.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

I literally posted a scan of this, I know this very well, even if you follow that the heart refers to the core, it is still stated that Raphael exists "in the right corner of Rimuru's soul", so unless there is something that refute this, if Rimuru is completely destroyed, so is Raphael.

I never said that hit was a direct hit, I said the "assumption" is still talking specifically about that hit, the "assumption" is if THAT hit caught on like it was supposed to.

What has visual limitations is the LN, since there is an image for each 700-line text, and the manga didn't skip details, just monologues, but this is something that every manga does, therefore, it doesn't count as something "less canonical" , especially if it shows images that portray the LN in a way that does not escape what is said in the LN.

He sacrificed it, but Raphael reveals he had a copy of the ability, so I don't see his point.

*Core

From the moment the skill is being used outside of Rimuru's body, this goes against what you say, the skill is sacrificed at the same moment Beelzebuth consumes the Melt Slash, nothing indicates that the blow went through the skill and reached the core, just that the act of "consuming"/using the ability and sacrificing was the same act.

This does not prove that a "sacrificed" skill continues to exist only within the core, it is one thing to say that just the use of the skill is just the phenomenon being brought into reality and that the skill continues to exist in the core, another thing is to say that the sacrificing a skill leaves it remaining only in the core, Rimuru is literally sacrificing the skill, not just invoking it, they are two different things.

Same thing as before.
No, my argument does not contradict the page, the page mentions that skills/magic are phenomena brought into reality, while the real skill remains existing in the core, but nothing says about the sacrifice being the same thing as just invoking the skill, the point "Sacrificing" is literally taking the existing ability in the core itself and causing it to be destroyed by actually invoking it as a "shield" (something that can be seen in the LN itself).

This honestly just proves you didn’t read. If you don’t want to read,then simply don’t comment on the thread and just wait for mods. You are just repeating already addressed arguments and making the thread longer

 

[Dog3352]

This honestly just proves you didn’t read. If you don’t want to read,then simply don’t comment on the thread and just wait for mods. You are just repeating already addressed arguments and making the thread longer

I read, cite where my argument contradicts the skill/magic page.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Granvell attack destroys peoples souls and what remained after hinata died i.e after granvells attack was her consciousness in her skill mathematician
Rimuru revived hinata using her skill mathematician.

Again reread your scan and mark this headcanon you are spitting and resend the scan it you can even find the word in there.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

I read, cite where my argument contradicts the skill/magic page.

You edited it and I don’t feel like reading all that again. But that isn’t even the argument in the first place. I will let astral deal with you

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Argument from repetition, and nothing here debunks or even addresses anything I said[including the example I gave regarding accidental and essential qualities].
If you want to understand what the latter is, read Ultima's sandbox for an explanation. That's where I got my example from.

Or, if you don't want to read the whole sandbox, a detailed explanation is also given by me here on its logical working.

Your argument is based solely on repetition and ignorance, that's all. Just call the staff, and let's see who agrees with your misconceptions about regeneration and resurrection.

 

[Dog3352]

You edited it and I don’t feel like reading all that again. But that isn’t even the argument in the first place. I will let astral deal with you

Basically: false accusation without evidence. I didn't change/edit my arguments at any point, at most I stopped arguing about one thing or another.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Your argument is based solely on repetition and ignorance, that's all.

Except, not really.

Just call the staff, and let's see who agrees with your misconceptions about regeneration and resurrection.

A staff came and pinged the other staff already 2 pages ago.
Tho, sure, I'll just call more staff, not a problem.