Tensura LN Cosmology Upgrade Tier 1 (Retry)

[Mizuki67]

I disagree. Reasoning wasn’t good at all.no different from head canon compared to astral explanation.will leave that to a different thread.

You cannot disagree when literally all you have been saying is assumptions to begin with Rimuru never teleported or bfred to a random place instead the world has reached to the point of destruction which is referred to as the end of the world

As for vega he probably got caught up in the space time storm and he got sent to a random place beyond space and time or somewhere at the end of space and time. No where was it mentioned that Rimuru used the space time distortion path way to travel

 

[Vietthai96]

Qawsed already agreed that both arguments are low 1-C

uh oh, what??

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

You cannot disagree when literally all you have been saying is assumptions to begin with Rimuru never teleported or bfred to a random place instead the world has reached to the point of destruction which is referred to as the end of the world

Used raws to prove his point.and rimuru was literally BFRed to beyond space-time.there isn’t even much different from yall argument besides things like chronological order and disagreement on beyond space time ≠ end of space time.

As for vega he probably got caught up in the space time storm and he got sent to a random place beyond space and time or somewhere at the end of space and time

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

uh oh, what??

Previous page. Unless I am somehow misunderstanding something

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Previous page. Unless I am somehow misunderstanding something

Qawsed never agreed with Astral about L1-C.

He only agreed with CodeCCLL if he can prove it.

CodeCCLL already wrote their argument, just wait for Qawsed.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

You're confusing time as a dimension and time as a direction of event placement. You can have a single time axis for a Low 1-A space if everything move in the same direction.

Indeed, but in such a case, if we remove the Time Axis from the Low 1-A construct, it won't have any "Time" at all[since its only governed by a single time axis], it would just be a collection of spaces, not "Time".

You just posted a slightly different version of my "would count" image there.

I did copy the part in the blue box from you, yes, since I was making the drawing in a hurry. But the point is, that is what happened here when Rimuru was sent to "Beyond Space and Time" and outside the regular 4D Timeline.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Qawsed never agreed with Astral about L1-C.

He only agreed with CodeCCLL if he can prove it.

CodeCCLL already wrote their argument, just wait for Qawsed.

By slightly different I just meant it's yelling the same thing is a different way. Either would count.

Am I misunderstanding something? He said either would count as low 1-C when I asked if astral version would count

 

[Mizuki67]

If it works in that way it would. But I'm getting like four different answers on how it works.

But if her time travel is going to a previous temporal snapshot and coexisting timelines don't naturally branch out, it would be Low 1-C.

But the blog also mentions MWI as the basis flr the cosmology and in that if worlds are formed directly from character actions then it's just Tier 2 since you can never get a uncountable infinite from that.

So if the current stance is different snapshots then sure, it's Low 1-C. If it's any MWI related then it's limit will always be 2-A due to how that terminology works in my mind.

Also MWI is just a branching of a single timeline, there is an encompassy timeline that contains all of these timelines, and there are countless of these encompassy timelines in cosmology.

Alright however can we get ur reply on this. I don't think the many world theory are referring to different worlds, rather they are only referring it as branching timeline

Edit: Low 1c for the verse is evident. I do not think that it could be denied and the verse also mentioned the existence of extra dimensional spaces that was brought up on Astral reply. We have added more information and proof below you can check it out if you want

亜空間には、常に位相の変動が生じている。それは予測出来るものではなく、それに巻き込まれた ならば、どんな異次元空間へ飛ばされるか予測不可能なのだ。
In the Subspace, there are always Phase Fluctuations. It's not something you can predict. If you get caught up in it, it's impossible to predict what kind of extra-dimensional space you will be transported to.
{Translator's Note: The "Extra-Dimensional Space" is referring to the Empty Space after the End of the Universe/Timeline[aka "Beyond Time" and/or Outside the 4D Timelines}
-Volume 21

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Am I misunderstanding something? He said either would count as low 1-C when I asked if astral version would count

He only spoke about the image that Astral showed, which was the same as what he sent before. The two are the same, that comment had nothing to do with his L1-C argument.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

They are literally the same thing as code has mentioned. The only thing that is independent from time is the subspace. Take it or leave it

I believe I already refuted that thoroughly. Why are you still bringing it up -_-

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

It is stated that at some point while returning, Rimuru crashed into a piece of tash floating into subspace. There are two possibilities in this regard. This trash either enters World through space-time storms or other means from subspace and crashes into Rimuru, or Rimuru accidentally gets disoriented while traveling through time and ends up in subspace. The latter is probably more likely.

Kinda missed this in the bundle of replies, so replying now. The latter could be, yeah, but I feel like people are misunderstanding that my claims and your claims contradict each other, so I ought to thoroughly clarify my part of how Rimuru travelled FROM the end of time and space TO a point where the world was not destroyed, and what the "Garbage" was.

Rimuru crashed into something while using the Space-time distortion path

Spoiler: Scan

俺達が通った〝時空の歪曲路〟を跳ばされていったみたいだけど、多分、亜空間に漂っていたゴミ だろうし、シエルさんが気にしていないのなら大丈夫だ。多分。
It seems they jumped through the same “space-time distortion path” we went through, but it's probably just some garbage floating in subspace, and if Ciel-san doesn't mind, it's okay. Probably.

When Vega[and Mai] were trapped inside the Subspace and the others used Breakdown Nostalgia on Vega, it was basically this point:

Spoiler: Scan

古城舞衣マイ・フルキは、全力で跳んだ先のどことも知れぬ空間に漂っていた。
Mai Furuki was drifting in an unknown space beyond where she had leapt with all her might.

恐らくは、亜空間と称される次元の狭間だ。
It was probably the gap between dimensions known as subspace.

ラミリスの迷宮から無秩序に跳んだから、位置座標を見失ってしまったのである。
They'd lost track of their spatial coordinates because of their uncontrolled leap from the labyrinth of Ramiris.

生きているだけでも儲けものだが、これはマイの権能によって『生存可能な空間を自動調整』され た結果であった。
It was a blessing to be alive, but this was the result of Mai's power to “automatically adjust the space in which she could survive”.

そうとは知らぬまま、マイは自分の幸運に感謝した。
Unaware of this, Mai was grateful for her good fortune.

After they were lost in Subspace, Mai stated that that she could still "jump through space-time" for some reason

Spoiler: Scan

（ク、クソッ!! 確かに俺じゃあ、複雑な権能なんて扱えねー気がする。けどよ……どうする？）
（Damn it! I certainly don't think I could handle a complex authority. But...... what should I do?)

このままマイに舐められるのは癪しゃくだし、かと言ってマイを殺してその権能を奪っても、ここ で手詰まりになってしまっては意味がなかった。
It would be irritating to be wronged by Mai, but killing Mai and taking away her power would be meaningless if he were to be stuck here.

ヴェガは迷った。
Vega felt confused.

このままではマイと二人、この何処とも知れぬ亜空間に取り残されるだけである。
At this rate, he and Mai would be left alone in this unknown subspace.

ここから跳ぶにしろ、マイ頼りだ。マイの気力が回復するのを待って、それから当てもなく『時空 間跳躍』する事になるだろう。
Mai was the only one who could help him jump from here. They would have to wait for Mai to recover her energy and then make a “space-time leap” without any idea of where they were going.

そうなると協力は必須な上に、いちいちマイの機嫌を窺わねばならない。
In that case, not only would cooperation be necessary, but Mai's mood would have to be observed at every step.

However, just during this monologue, they encounter what's called a "Space-time storm", and Mai got caught up in it.

Spoiler: Scan

それに気付いたのはマイが先か、それともヴェガだったのか……。
It was Mai who noticed it first, or was it Vega.....

強大無比の時空嵐が、その場に突然発生していた。
A powerful and unparalleled space-time storm was suddenly generated in that place.

亜空間の法則は、人知の及ぶところではない。
The Laws of Subspace are beyond comprehension.

その時空嵐に巻き込まれて無事で済むのかどうか、それさえも不明なのである。
Whether or not one could be caught in such a space-time storm and survive is unknown.

「逃げた方がいいわね」
“We'd better run away.”

「言われるまでも──」
“You don't have to tell me...”

ヴェガは、その言葉を最後まで言えなかった。
But Vega couldn't bring himself to finish the sentence.

マイもそうだが、より強大な力を垂れ流していたヴェガを中心に、新たなる時空嵐が発生したから だ。
The same is true of Mai, for another space-time storm was generated, centered on Vega, with even more powerful forces flowing out of it.

「──きゃ!?」
“───Kyah?!"

「ぐわぁ────────ッ!?」
“Wha--?!"

それは、抗う事など出来そうもないほど、強力無比なエネルギーの本流だった。
It was a stream of energy so powerful and unparalleled that it was impossible to resist.

ヴェガの手がマイから離れた。
Vega's hand left Mai.

それは好機なのだが、マイはそれどころではなかった。
It was an opportunity, but Mai had no time to worry about it.

光が舞う。
Light was dancing.

その時空の渦に巻き込まれるなり、精神生命体であるマイの意識さえも朦もう朧ろうとなって──
As soon as Mai was caught in the vortex of Time and Space, even her consciousness, as a spiritual life form, became fuzzy...

『諦めるなって言ってくれたのに、ゴメンね、ユウキ君──』
"I'm sorry, Yuki, even though you told me not to give up...”

そう心の中で呟いて、マイは意識を手放したのだった。
Mai muttered this in her mind as her consciousness faded away.

その時空嵐が去って、ヴェガは一人、しぶとく生き残っていた。
By the time the space storm had passed, Vega was the lone survivor.

「クックック、大した事なかったぜィ！」
"Kukuku, it was no big deal!”

喉元過ぎれば熱さを忘れるというが、ヴェガはまさにそれだ。
As they say, you forget how hot it is when it gets to your throat, and Vega was just like that.

だから反省もしないので、同じ過ちを繰り返すのである。
So, without reflecting on his actions, he kept making the same mistakes over and over again.

「チッ、マイとはぐれちまったか。これほど強力なエネルギーの奔流の直撃を浴びちまったんじ ゃ、もう死んじまったかもな」
”Damn, I've lost Mai. She's probably dead after being hit by such a powerful torrent of energy."

マイが死んでもどうでもいいが、その権能を奪えなかったのは残念だった──と、ヴェガは思った。
It didn't matter if Mai died, but it was a pity that he couldn't take that power away from her, Vega thought.

So basically, Mai was the one who got caught up in the Space-time storm. The "Space-time storm" is the Space-time distortion path.
It basically transfers whatever is caught up inside it to a random Dimension, and that's where Mai ended up in, as "Garbage" inside the "Dimension" and inside the "Cardinal World" but outside the Cardinal "Universe"[basically she ended up at the same place as where Rimuru was at "Beyond Space-Time, the Empty Extra-dimensional space outside the timeline], and during that "transfer/jump", Rimuru bumped into her when his first attempt at time wrap failed.

Spoiler: Scan

亜空間には、常に位相の変動が生じている。それは予測出来るものではなく、それに巻き込まれた ならば、どんな異次元空間へ飛ばされるか予測不可能なのだ。
In the Subspace, there are always Phase Fluctuations. It's not something you can predict. If you get caught up in it, it's impossible to predict what kind of extra-dimensional space you will be transported to.
{Translator's Note: The "Extra-Dimensional Space" is referring to the Empty Space after the End of the Universe/Timeline[aka "Beyond Time" and/or Outside the 4D Timelines}

時間の流れさえも歪曲された異界であるが故に、たとえ『空間支配』を有していたとしても、跳ば された場所から今と同じ地点への復帰は現実的ではなかった。
Because even the flow of time would be bent in that other world, it would not be realistic to return to the same point from which one was jumped, even if one had “spatial domination”.

ヴェルグリンドはそれを成し遂げたが、あれは偶然と奇跡が重なった例外である。
Velgrynd had accomplished that, but it was an exception, a combination of chance and miracle.

跳ばされた先だが、人が生息している別次元世界アナザーワールドだったらまだマシで、何もない 宇宙の終しゅう焉えんだったり、生命が誕生する前の大破壊の真っ最中だったりしても不思議では ない。
It would have been better if they had jumped to another world in another dimension inhabited by human beings, but it would not be surprising if they would jump to the end of the universe where there is an empty space, or to the middle of the great destruction before the birth of life.

{Translation Note: The Kanji for "Universe" in the "end of the universe where there is an empty space" is the same as the "Feldway's power was limited to destroying the Universe of the Cardinal World"

So basically, this is how Mai[the "Garbage" that Ciel mentioned] ended up bumping into Rimuru. The "Space-time storm" basically BFRed Mai from Subspace[outside the "World" and "Dimensions"] inside the "Cardinal World" where she bumped into Rimuru[Just because Ciel mentioned it was "Garbage in Subspace" does NOT mean Rimuru was inside the Subspace at any point, no].
Now, wasn't Rimuru already at the end of the cardinal world? Then how did he bump into Mai INSIDE the cardinal world? Well, remember that Rimuru used Time Wrap twice, the first time, he did a "mistake", and the second time, well, we don't know[cliffhanger-kun]

Spoiler: Scan

そうして俺は『時空間跳躍タイムワープ』を初めて体験して──ゴンッ──と、何かを跳ね飛ばしたような感覚があった。
And then, for the first time, I experienced the 'Space-Time Leap'──and felt like I'd bounced off something.
{Translator's Note: This is the first Space-Time Leap he did}

ん？
Hm?

もしかして、初心者運転にありがちな、事故ったとか？
Could it be that it was a common beginner accident?

《気のせいです》
《It is just your imagination.》

あ、そう？
Oh, really?

俺が何かを言うより先に、シエルさんがそう断言した。
Ciel-san responded before I could say anything more.

そう言うのなら、そうなのだろう。
If it's her saying that, it might be true.

俺達が通った〝時空の歪曲路〟を跳ばされていったみたいだけど、多分、亜空間に漂っていたゴミだろうし、シエルさんが気にしていないのなら大丈夫だ。多分。
It looks like they were forced to jump the Space-Time Distortion Path we passed through, but it's probably some garbage that was floating around in subspace, so if Ciel-san doesn't mind, it's not a problem. Probably.

初めて実行する『時空間跳躍タイムワープ』だったから、軽くミスしちゃったのかもね。
This is the first time I've ever done a Space-Time Leap, so I probably made a mistake.

まあ、そういう事もあるだろうと、俺は気にしない事にした。
Well, I decided not to worry about these sort of thing.

それじゃあ気を取り直して──
Well then, let's pull ourselves together──

「行くぞ！」
「Let's go!」

《御心のままに、我が君主イエス・マイロード──!!》
《As you wish, Master!》

俺の命令にシエルさんが応える。
Ciel-san responded to my order.

いつものように簡単に、それは当たり前の事だった。
As always, it was the norm.

シエルさんが俺の事を、絶対的に信頼してくれているのが感じられた。
I can feel Ciel-san's absolute trust in me.

その気持ちを裏切らないように心に刻み、俺は俺が正しいと思える世界を選択する。
Carving those feelings into my heart in order to not betray them, I chose a world I thought was right.

また失敗するかも知れないが、もはや俺に敗北はない。
I might make a mistake again, but I can't lose anymore.

そろそろ不幸の連鎖を終わらせて、明るい未来を築こうじゃないか！
It’s about time we put an end to this chain of misfortune and build a bright future!

そんなふうに考えながら、俺は皆が待つ過去へと向けて『時空間跳躍タイムワープ』したのだった。
With that thought in mind, I used “Space-Time Leap” and jumped toward the past where everyone was waiting.
{Translator's Note: This is the second Space-Time Leap he did}

So basically, Rimuru used Space-Time wrap once, but made a mistake. This "mistake" was that he didn't directly go to the point he wanted to[aka, in front of Feldway, like he did in WN with Yuuki], rather, he jumped to before the Cardinal World was destroyed, but he was still outside the Timeline/Universe[same thing as "Beyond Space-Time; he basically reverse-travelled from "End of Space-Time" to "Beyond Space-Time"]. After that, he used the Space-time leap again, and well, cliff-hanger strikes...

To simply, we can put it into this order.

Other than that, yes, Rimuru has never been in subspace, which is a completely timeless place.

Completely agree

Even if he were found, he couldn't travel through time in any way, he could only travel like Velgrynd.

Pretty much, or well, he could do it like what happened to Mai.

If you read the parts of the blog about other dimensional worlds and try to criticize the relevant parts with the Cardinal World, you can understand the situation better.

I think I described my viewpoint quite thoroughly in this reply that I'm writing, now.
Actually, I think now we may have a better chance since we now have an explicit statement regarding the "beyond Time and Space" and "Outside the Timeline before the end of the world" being an extra-dimensional space.

Before ending this, I want to clarify "How did Rimuru time travel then, if he was at the end of the world where the Hypertimeline had ended?", well, its via travelling in the Time axis/"Time" of the Dimension that contained the Cardinal World [since well, we know that Dimensions contain self-enclosed other-worlds like the cardinal world itself]
After this, I won't be replying until tomorrow, so there may be now reply for around 12 hours.

 

[Mizuki67]

Kinda missed this in the bundle of replies, so replying now. The latter could be, yeah, but I feel like people are misunderstanding that my claims and your claims contradict each other, so I ought to thoroughly clarify my part of how Rimuru travelled FROM the end of time and space TO a point where the world was not destroyed, and what the "Garbage" was.

Rimuru crashed into something while using the Space-time distortion path
When Vega[and Mai] were trapped inside the Subspace and the others used Breakdown Nostalgia on Vega, it was basically this point:
After they were lost in Subspace, Mai stated that that she could still "jump through space-time" for some reason
However, just during this monologue, they encounter what's called a "Space-time storm", and Mai got caught up in it.
So basically, Mai was the one who got caught up in the Space-time storm. The "Space-time storm" is the Space-time distortion path.
It basically transfers whatever is caught up inside it to a random Dimension, and that's where Mai ended up in, as "Garbage" inside the "Dimension" outside the Cardinal "World", and there, Rimuru bumped into her when his first attempt at time wrap failed.
So basically, this is how Mai[the "Garbage" that Ciel mentioned] ended up bumping into Rimuru. The "Space-time storm" basically BFRed Mai from Subspace[outside the "World" and "Dimensions"] inside the "Cardinal World" where she bumped into Rimuru[Just because Ciel mentioned it was "Garbage in Subspace" does NOT mean Rimuru was inside the Subspace at any point, no].
Now, wasn't Rimuru already at the end of the cardinal world? Then how did he bump into Mai INSIDE the cardinal world? Well, remember that Rimuru used Time Wrap twice, the first time, he did a "mistake", and the second time, well, we don't know[cliffhanger-kun]
So basically, Rimuru used Space-Time wrap once, but made a mistake. This "mistake" was that he didn't directly go to the point he wanted to[aka, in front of Feldway, like he did in WN with Yuuki], rather, he jumped to before the Cardinal World was destroyed, but he was still outside the Timeline/Universe[same thing as "Beyond Space-Time; he basically reverse-travelled from "End of Space-Time" to "Beyond Space-Time"]. After that, he used the Space-time leap again, and well, cliff-hanger strikes...

To simply, we can put it into this order.

Completely agree

Pretty much, or well, he could do it like what happened to Mai.

I think I described my viewpoint quite thoroughly in this reply that I'm writing, now.
Actually, I think now we may have a better chance since we now have an explicit statement regarding the "beyond Time and Space" and "Outside the Timeline before the end of the world" being an extra-dimensional space.

Before ending this, I want to clarify "How did Rimuru time travel then, if he was at the end of the world where the Hypertimeline had ended?", well, its via travelling in the Time axis/"Time" of the Dimension that contained the Cardinal World [since well, we know that Dimensions contain self-enclosed other-worlds like the cardinal world itself]
After this, I won't be replying until tomorrow, so there may be now reply for around 12 hours.

Yeah this starts to make sense now. I agree with this

 

[Mizuki67]

Astral isn’t using eost at all.that is for a different thread. Qawsed already agreed that both arguments are low 1-C. The only difference between you and astral argument is that end of space time≠ beyond space time which you disagree with.

Yeah I now know why both of you and @Berga14 said that both arguments can work now

I apologise for the misunderstanding.

 

[Mizuki67]

Alright however can we get ur last reply on this

I want to add that Rimuru also time leap 2 times. One is where he escaped the end of space and time (A place where even the hypertimeline and its world has ended) using the space time distortion path or the dimension time axis and one is where he used the time axis of the Cardinal world, the place where he got thrown at which is beyond space and time and a place that exists outside the timelines is what we are arguing for. With the evidence provided we can add up that the timeline and universe was already over at the time Rimuru was sent to a place beyond space and time which the verse also calls it an extra dimensional space or an empty universe

Anymore questions please ask in discussion thread if possible because we don't want to clog the thread for now

That is all from me

 

[Mizuki67]

Kinda missed this in the bundle of replies, so replying now. The latter could be, yeah, but I feel like people are misunderstanding that my claims and your claims contradict each other, so I ought to thoroughly clarify my part of how Rimuru travelled FROM the end of time and space TO a point where the world was not destroyed, and what the "Garbage" was.

Rimuru crashed into something while using the Space-time distortion path
When Vega[and Mai] were trapped inside the Subspace and the others used Breakdown Nostalgia on Vega, it was basically this point:
After they were lost in Subspace, Mai stated that that she could still "jump through space-time" for some reason
However, just during this monologue, they encounter what's called a "Space-time storm", and Mai got caught up in it.
So basically, Mai was the one who got caught up in the Space-time storm. The "Space-time storm" is the Space-time distortion path.
It basically transfers whatever is caught up inside it to a random Dimension, and that's where Mai ended up in, as "Garbage" inside the "Dimension" outside the Cardinal "World", and there, Rimuru bumped into her when his first attempt at time wrap failed.
So basically, this is how Mai[the "Garbage" that Ciel mentioned] ended up bumping into Rimuru. The "Space-time storm" basically BFRed Mai from Subspace[outside the "World" and "Dimensions"] inside the "Cardinal World" where she bumped into Rimuru[Just because Ciel mentioned it was "Garbage in Subspace" does NOT mean Rimuru was inside the Subspace at any point, no].
Now, wasn't Rimuru already at the end of the cardinal world? Then how did he bump into Mai INSIDE the cardinal world? Well, remember that Rimuru used Time Wrap twice, the first time, he did a "mistake", and the second time, well, we don't know[cliffhanger-kun]
So basically, Rimuru used Space-Time wrap once, but made a mistake. This "mistake" was that he didn't directly go to the point he wanted to[aka, in front of Feldway, like he did in WN with Yuuki], rather, he jumped to before the Cardinal World was destroyed, but he was still outside the Timeline/Universe[same thing as "Beyond Space-Time; he basically reverse-travelled from "End of Space-Time" to "Beyond Space-Time"]. After that, he used the Space-time leap again, and well, cliff-hanger strikes...

To simply, we can put it into this order.

Completely agree

Pretty much, or well, he could do it like what happened to Mai.

I think I described my viewpoint quite thoroughly in this reply that I'm writing, now.
Actually, I think now we may have a better chance since we now have an explicit statement regarding the "beyond Time and Space" and "Outside the Timeline before the end of the world" being an extra-dimensional space.

Before ending this, I want to clarify "How did Rimuru time travel then, if he was at the end of the world where the Hypertimeline had ended?", well, its via travelling in the Time axis/"Time" of the Dimension that contained the Cardinal World [since well, we know that Dimensions contain self-enclosed other-worlds like the cardinal world itself]
After this, I won't be replying until tomorrow, so there may be now reply for around 12 hours.

For extended explanation and evidence please refer to this

 

[Meli_Tempest]

If it works in that way it would. But I'm getting like four different answers on how it works.

But if her time travel is going to a previous temporal snapshot and coexisting timelines don't naturally branch out, it would be Low 1-C.

But the blog also mentions MWI as the basis flr the cosmology and in that if worlds are formed directly from character actions then it's just Tier 2 since you can never get a uncountable infinite from that.

So if the current stance is different snapshots then sure, it's Low 1-C. If it's any MWI related then it's limit will always be 2-A due to how that terminology works in my mind.

A doubt has arisen for me, this that Qawsedf has said, can it be counted as an approval? Or should we wait for his explicit approval?

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

A doubt has arisen for me, this that Qawsedf has said, can it be counted as an approval? Or should we wait for his explicit approval?

It should count. But wait just in case he clearly accepted astral picture

 

[Antvasima]

Which staff members have accepted what here so far?

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Which staff members have accepted what here so far?

I guess it could see the changes being fine from the updated proposals; Ciel’s statements seem like solid evidence that some form of additional time axis exists, as its statements should be 2 and 3, given its supergenius intelligence, its status as some form of deity, and it does not lie.

Looks alright.

If it works in that way it would. But I'm getting like four different answers on how it works.

But if her time travel is going to a previous temporal snapshot and coexisting timelines don't naturally branch out, it would be Low 1-C.

But the blog also mentions MWI as the basis flr the cosmology and in that if worlds are formed directly from character actions then it's just Tier 2 since you can never get a uncountable infinite from that.

So if the current stance is different snapshots then sure, it's Low 1-C. If it's any MWI related then it's limit will always be 2-A due to how that terminology works in my mind.

By slightly different I just meant it's yelling the same thing is a different way. Either would count.

Elizhaa,DarkDragonMedeus,and possibly qawsed.

Just waiting for qawsed to give final verdict on what he agrees on

 

[Qawsedf234]

CodeCCLL already wrote their argument, just wait for Qawsed.

I've read through the blog multiple times now about the Cardinal World but I'm not seeing him going to a previous time snapshot.

There is no way to do that, I thought. Chloe seemed to be able to 'Time Leap' to read her future memories, but that was just an ability to go back to her past self.

Besides, it cannot be used while time is suspended. In this "end of time and space", no time is flowing, so even Chloe probably can't go back to the past.

From what I see here, Chloe would be capable of going to the best but it wouldn't work for two reasons:

• They aren't strong enough to defeat Feldway
• She can't use it in a realm with suspended or zero time

So that's a limitation of her power and she would be able to accomplish it if she wasn't stuck in a timeless zone.

Its essence was not 'the ability to move to a place you have been to once, at will' but 'the ability to transcend all time and space and arrive at a desired place.

This is just better time travel since the current iteration of the person arrives at the time of their choice.

Ultimately speaking the only way this is Low 1-C is assuming that the universe was destroyed retroactively. As in the entire timeline he was in was deleted from start to finish. Which isn't provided by the blog.

If it is, then yeah its Low 1-C since there's nothing to return to and he returned to it anyways. If its not retroactively destroyed then its just a Tier 2 reality.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

I've read through the blog multiple times now about the Cardinal World but I'm not seeing him going to a previous time snapshot.

From what I see here, Chloe would be capable of going to the best but it wouldn't work for two reasons:

• They aren't strong enough to defeat Feldway
• She can't use it in a realm with suspended or zero time

So that's a limitation of her power and she would be able to accomplish it if she wasn't stuck in a timeless zone.

This is just better time travel since the current iteration of the person arrives at the time of their choice.

Ultimately speaking the only way this is Low 1-C is assuming that the universe was destroyed retroactively. As in the entire timeline he was in was deleted from start to finish. Which isn't provided by the blog.

If it is, then yeah it’s Low 1-C since there's nothing to return to and he returned to it anyways. If it’s not retroactively destroyed then it’s just a Tier 2 reality.

idk if you did already. But can you look at astral explaination? See if it changes anything?

Kinda missed this in the bundle of replies, so replying now. The latter could be, yeah, but I feel like people are misunderstanding that my claims and your claims contradict each other, so I ought to thoroughly clarify my part of how Rimuru travelled FROM the end of time and space TO a point where the world was not destroyed, and what the "Garbage" was.

Rimuru crashed into something while using the Space-time distortion path
When Vega[and Mai] were trapped inside the Subspace and the others used Breakdown Nostalgia on Vega, it was basically this point:
After they were lost in Subspace, Mai stated that that she could still "jump through space-time" for some reason
However, just during this monologue, they encounter what's called a "Space-time storm", and Mai got caught up in it.
So basically, Mai was the one who got caught up in the Space-time storm. The "Space-time storm" is the Space-time distortion path.
It basically transfers whatever is caught up inside it to a random Dimension, and that's where Mai ended up in, as "Garbage" inside the "Dimension" and inside the "Cardinal World" but outside the Cardinal "Universe"[basically she ended up at the same place as where Rimuru was at "Beyond Space-Time, the Empty Extra-dimensional space outside the timeline], and during that "transfer/jump", Rimuru bumped into her when his first attempt at time wrap failed.
So basically, this is how Mai[the "Garbage" that Ciel mentioned] ended up bumping into Rimuru. The "Space-time storm" basically BFRed Mai from Subspace[outside the "World" and "Dimensions"] inside the "Cardinal World" where she bumped into Rimuru[Just because Ciel mentioned it was "Garbage in Subspace" does NOT mean Rimuru was inside the Subspace at any point, no].
Now, wasn't Rimuru already at the end of the cardinal world? Then how did he bump into Mai INSIDE the cardinal world? Well, remember that Rimuru used Time Wrap twice, the first time, he did a "mistake", and the second time, well, we don't know[cliffhanger-kun]
So basically, Rimuru used Space-Time wrap once, but made a mistake. This "mistake" was that he didn't directly go to the point he wanted to[aka, in front of Feldway, like he did in WN with Yuuki], rather, he jumped to before the Cardinal World was destroyed, but he was still outside the Timeline/Universe[same thing as "Beyond Space-Time; he basically reverse-travelled from "End of Space-Time" to "Beyond Space-Time"]. After that, he used the Space-time leap again, and well, cliff-hanger strikes...

To simply, we can put it into this order.

Completely agree

Pretty much, or well, he could do it like what happened to Mai.

I think I described my viewpoint quite thoroughly in this reply that I'm writing, now.
Actually, I think now we may have a better chance since we now have an explicit statement regarding the "beyond Time and Space" and "Outside the Timeline before the end of the world" being an extra-dimensional space.

Before ending this, I want to clarify "How did Rimuru time travel then, if he was at the end of the world where the Hypertimeline had ended?", well, its via travelling in the Time axis/"Time" of the Dimension that contained the Cardinal World [since well, we know that Dimensions contain self-enclosed other-worlds like the cardinal world itself]
After this, I won't be replying until tomorrow, so there may be now reply for around 12 hours.

 

[Mizuki67]

Alright however can we get ur reply on this. I don't think the many world theory are referring to different worlds, rather they are only referring it as branching timeline

Edit: Low 1c for the verse is evident. I do not think that it could be denied and the verse also mentioned the existence of extra dimensional spaces that was brought up on Astral reply. We have added more information and proof below you can check it out if you want

I want to add that Rimuru also time leap 2 times. One is where he escaped the end of space and time (A place where even the hypertimeline and its world has ended) using the space time distortion path or the dimension time axis and one is where he used the time axis of the Cardinal world, the place where he got thrown at which is beyond space and time or known as the place that exists outside the timelines is what we are arguing for. With the evidence provided we can add up that the timeline and universe was already over at the time Rimuru was sent to a place beyond space and time which the verse also calls it an extra dimensional space or an empty universe

Anymore questions please ask in discussion thread if possible because we don't want to clog the thread for now

That is all from me

I've read through the blog multiple times now about the Cardinal World but I'm not seeing him going to a previous time snapshot.

From what I see here, Chloe would be capable of going to the best but it wouldn't work for two reasons:

• They aren't strong enough to defeat Feldway
• She can't use it in a realm with suspended or zero time

So that's a limitation of her power and she would be able to accomplish it if she wasn't stuck in a timeless zone.

This is just better time travel since the current iteration of the person arrives at the time of their choice.

Ultimately speaking the only way this is Low 1-C is assuming that the universe was destroyed retroactively. As in the entire timeline he was in was deleted from start to finish. Which isn't provided by the blog.

If it is, then yeah its Low 1-C since there's nothing to return to and he returned to it anyways. If its not retroactively destroyed then its just a Tier 2 reality.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Neither comment answers my question. Unless he's returning to a space that was retroactively destroyed he can always jump backwards towards it. If it was wiped out completely, as in time no longer existed in any capacity as described here, then its Low 1-C. If you can't show that I can't agree with an upgrade. If you can then there's a hyper-timeline present.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Ultimately speaking the only way this is Low 1-C is assuming that the universe was destroyed retroactively. As in the entire timeline he was in was deleted from start to finish. Which isn't provided by the blog.

[1] Ciel states from the beginning that where they are is the end of the world/the end of space-time. [2] Then states that the place they are in is a point beyond space-time where space-time ends.

Can I ask what you understand from here?

 

[Mizuki67]

Neither comment answers my question. Unless he's returning to a space that was retroactively destroyed he can always jump backwards towards it. If it was wiped out completely, as in time no longer existed in any capacity as described here, then its Low 1-C. If you can't show that I can't agree with an upgrade. If you can then there's a hyper-timeline present.

You are kidding right you do know that the flow of time at the end of space time was mentioned to be non existent. It was as if Time turned to zero

and the fact that the place beyond space and time is called an extra dimensional place should already prove it

What more proof do we have to show you ?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Can I ask what you understand from here?

What you showed me is that there's an end point. Not that things before that end point don't exist. Which isn't a qualifier.

You are kidding right you do know that the flow of time at the end of space time was mentioned to be non existent. It was as if Time turned to zero

They're jumping back to a previous point. Meaning that previous point is required to be destroyed for it to count as Hyper-timeline. If it's not destroyed, then you're still able to reach an existing snapshot which can be done with a single temporal direction.

It's why I asked for evidence if that timeline being erased. Since if it's retroactive you're good. If it's not then I don't see it qualifying for a second axis.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

From what I see here, Chloe would be capable of going to the best but it wouldn't work for two reasons:

• They aren't strong enough to defeat Feldway

I don't understand how this is even a "reason" here, really. How is something about whether or not a character is stronger from another character be related to additional time axis stuff, which more falls under range in context to time travel?

• She can't use it in a realm with suspended

Suspended World is not your normal Low 2-C Time Stop, it stops time not only inside a single timeline but through all Worlds in existence.

時間というのは、限定空間だけを流れているものではない。ありとあらゆる世界の時間と空間に影響を及ぼすのが〝停止世界〟という訳だな。
Time is not something that flows only in a bounded space. The “suspended world” affects the time and space of all other worlds.

The range of suspended world is far bigger then even the structure for which we're proposing a Low 1-C rating for, we're aiming for Low 1-C for a single "Other World", meanwhile Suspended world effects all "Other worlds" in existence. I mean, if the "Hyper time" itself is stopped in a time stop, its not really an anti-feat to Low 1-C or being a hypertimeline, right?

• or zero time

I'm assuming you meant these parts?

そして、今の俺に何が出来るのかを正確に把握し、今後に備える事になったのである。
And now, I have an accurate grasp of what I can do, and I have to prepare for the future.

切羽詰まっていたはずなのに、時間はたっぷりとあった。
I should have been at my wit's end, but I have plenty of time.

いや、正確に言えば時間が流れていないのだから、〝たっぷりと〟どころかゼロである。それでも 平気なのだから、俺もかなりおかしな存在になってしまったみたいだった。
Or, to be more precise it was not “plenty” at all, but zero, because no time had passed. Even so, I was fine, so it seemed that I had become a rather ridiculous existence.

そんな訳で、準備万端。
So, I was ready to go.

時間が流れていないと扱えない権能の方が多いので、ぶっつけ本番となる場面も多そうなのだが、 それでも俺の不安は消え去っていた。
There are many skills that can't be exercised unless time is running, so there will be many situations where I will have to do things on the spot, but even so, my anxiety was gone.

クロエは未来の記憶を読み取れる『時間跳躍タイムリープ』が可能みたいだったが、あれはあくま でも過去の自分へと戻れる能力だ。
Chloe seemed to be capable of “Time Leap” which allows her to read future memories, but it is only an ability to return to her past self.

それに、時間が停止している中では使えない。
Besides, it cannot be used while time is suspended.

この〝時空の果て〟では時間も流れていないので、多分クロエでも過去には戻れないだろう。
Time doesn't flow here at the “End of Time and Space” so even Chloe probably can't go back to the past.

──と思った俺に、シエルさんが囁くのだ。
I thought that, but Ciel whispered to me.

If yes, then you're misunderstanding it again. Because "Chloe cannot go back to the past" is said for the "End of Space and Time", that's literally the end of the Hypertimeline, rather then a timeline in it.
Here's the correct order:
"Timelines/Universes" -> "Beyond Space-Time"/"Empty Space outside the Timeline"/"Extra-Dimensional Space" but still inside the Hypertimeline [so Chloe can travel to the past from here] -> "End of Space-Time"/"End of the World", aka the end of the Hypertimeline itself; Chloe cannot go to the past from here since the Hypertimeline itself doesn't exist.
Here's a diagram to elaborate:

At the end, when it says "Rimuru uses space-time leap again", I'm referring to him still being at a point where the Low 2-C timeline didn't exist.

Ultimately speaking the only way this is Low 1-C is assuming that the universe was destroyed retroactively. As in the entire timeline he was in was deleted from start to finish.

I think I can prove this, but just to be sure, by "Timeline" here you meant the Low 2-C timeline right?
Anyways, I'll answer this in a few minutes, I gotta go somewhere asap.

 

[CodeCCLL]

What you showed me is that there's an end point. Not that things before that end point don't exist. Which isn't a qualifier

The space-time continuum extends infinitely unless destroyed by someone, so under normal circumstances there is no such thing as the end of space-time. Since the Cardinal Universe's space-time continuum was destroyed by Feldway, the place Rimuru was sent to is called the end of space-time, a point in the hypertimeline's future where the Cardinal Universe's space-time continuum was already completely destroyed.


Therefore, while Rimuru is sent to the end of space-time, it is stated that the past, future and present are uncertain because the space-time continuum is being destroyed by Feldway.

 

[CodeCCLL]

I don't understand how this is even a "reason" here, really. How is something about whether or not a character is stronger from another character be related to additional time axis stuff, which more falls under range in context to time travel?

Suspended World is not your normal Low 2-C Time Stop, it stops time not only inside a single timeline but through all Worlds in existence.

The range of suspended world is far bigger then even the structure for which we're proposing a Low 1-C rating for, we're aiming for Low 1-C for a single "Other World", meanwhile Suspended world effects all "Other worlds" in existence. I mean, if the "Hyper time" itself is stopped in a time stop, its not really an anti-feat to Low 1-C or being a hypertimeline, right?

I'm assuming you meant these parts?


If yes, then you're misunderstanding it again. Because "Chloe cannot go back to the past" is said for the "End of Space and Time", that's literally the end of the Hypertimeline, rather then a timeline in it.
Here's the correct order:
"Timelines/Universes" -> "Beyond Space-Time"/"Empty Space outside the Timeline"/"Extra-Dimensional Space" but still inside the Hypertimeline [so Chloe can travel to the past from here] -> "End of Space-Time"/"End of the World", aka the end of the Hypertimeline itself; Chloe cannot go to the past from here since the Hypertimeline itself doesn't exist.
Here's a diagram to elaborate:

At the end, when it says "Rimuru uses space-time leap again", I'm referring to him still being at a point where the Low 2-C timeline didn't exist.

I think I can prove this, but just to be sure, by "Timeline" here you meant the Low 2-C timeline right?

Qawsed poses a question not to your arguments, to my arguments. Can you stop confusing the issue with your own opinion in now? This is extremely annoying.

Frankly, I would understand him if Qawsed no longer found this worth discussing and stopped following the thread.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Qawsed poses a question not to your arguments, to my arguments. Can you stop confusing the issue with your own opinion in now? This is extremely annoying.

Frankly, I would understand him if Qawsed no longer found this worth discussing and stopped following the thread.

You guys arguments are essentially the same. With minor differences.Except yours is flawed.you aren’t the only one trying to get this thread done,and you aren’t even protecting it well enough for astral to “stop texting “

 

[Mizuki67]

The space-time continuum extends infinitely unless destroyed by someone, so under normal circumstances there is no such thing as the end of space-time. Since the Cardinal Universe's space-time continuum was destroyed by Feldway, the place Rimuru was sent to is called the end of space-time, a point in the hypertimeline's future where the Cardinal Universe's space-time continuum was destroyed.


Therefore, while Rimuru is sent to the end of space-time, it is stated that the past, future and present are uncertain because the space-time continuum is being destroyed by Feldway.

Would also like to add that the unknown place Rimuru was sent to was also called an extra dimensional space

亜空間には、常に位相の変動が生じている。それは予測出来るものではなく、それに巻き込まれた ならば、どんな異次元空間へ飛ばされるか予測不可能なのだ。
In the Subspace, there are always Phase Fluctuations. It's not something you can predict. If you get caught up in it, it's impossible to predict what kind of extra-dimensional space you will be transported to.
{Translator's Note: The "Extra-Dimensional Space" is referring to the Empty Space after the End of the Universe/Timeline[aka "Beyond Time" and/or Outside the 4D Timelines}
-Volume 21

 

[CodeCCLL]

Would also like to add that the place Rimuru was sent to was also called an extra dimensional space

Then we can add this as additional proof. So, on which chapter/page of Volume 21 is this statement placed?

 

[Qawsedf234]

I don't understand how this is even a "reason" here, really. How is something about whether or not a character is stronger from another character be related to additional time axis stuff, which more falls under range in context to time travel?

I has nothing to do with it, I was just expanding on what the work gives as reasons why Chloe can't time travel.

Suspended World is not your normal Low 2-C Time Stop, it stops time not only inside a single timeline but through all Worlds in existence.

I think you're misunderstanding my point. It wasn't that time stop is an anti-feat, its that she could time travel if time wasn't stopped. Meaning she was capable of jumping back in that instance if that state of existence wasn't imposed upon her.

If yes, then you're misunderstanding it again. Because "Chloe cannot go back to the past" is said for the "End of Space and Time", that's literally the end of the Hypertimeline, rather then a timeline in it.

I already mentioned that as to why she can't go back. The point was that she would be able to if time was still in that dimension, but its not so her powers don't work. The other guy time travelling is going back to a previous segment that Chloe could also go to if circumstances were different.

Therefore, while Rimuru is sent to the end of space-time, it is stated that the past, future and present are uncertain because the space-time continuum is being destroyed by Feldway.

The page you gave does not mention space-time destruction. It just transported him per the page itself

Blast off to the end of time and space

You have to show that Feldway erased that timeline and Rimuru returned to it despite that. Stopping it from existing at one point and then its a void after isn't the same as retroactive erasure.

You guys arguments are essentially the same.

Yeah I'm not sure where the beef is coming from, because both are arguing the same point but working from different starting points.

 

[Mizuki67]

Then we can add this as additional proof. So, on which chapter/page of Volume 21 is this statement placed?

Vol 21 , Chapter 4 it seems like

 

[CodeCCLL]

You have to show that Feldway erased that timeline and Rimuru returned to it despite that. Stopping it from existing at one point and then its a void after isn't the same as retroactive erasure.

I was transported by Feldway's space-time transfer to some unknown place, where the past, the future, and the present were all uncertain.

Didn't you read this part?

And this?

Would also like to add that the unknown place Rimuru was sent to was also called an extra dimensional space.

亜空間には、常に位相の変動が生じている。それは予測出来るものではなく、それに巻き込まれた ならば、どんな異次元空間へ飛ばされるか予測不可能なのだ。
In the Subspace, there are always Phase Fluctuations. It's not something you can predict. If you get caught up in it, it's impossible to predict what kind of extra-dimensional space you will be transported to.
{Translator's Note: The "Extra-Dimensional Space" is referring to the Empty Space after the End of the Universe/Timeline[aka "Beyond Time" and/or Outside the 4D Timelines}
-Volume 21, Chapter 4

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Then we can add this as additional proof. So, on which chapter/page of Volume 21 is this statement placed?

For me it is on page 485 but translation a little different.

I has nothing to do with it, I was just expanding on what the work gives as reasons why Chloe can't time travel.

I think you're misunderstanding my point. It wasn't that time stop is an anti-feat, its that she could time travel if time wasn't stopped. Meaning she was capable of jumping back in that instance if that state of existence wasn't imposed upon her.

I think you are still misunderstanding.

Time was not stopped (that is for suspended world) It didn’t exist. So there was nothing flowing. Cause there was nothing that could flow.

I already mentioned that as to why she can't go back. The point was that she would be able to if time was still in that dimension, but its not so her powers don't work. The other guy time travelling is going back to a previous segment that Chloe could also go to if circumstances were different.

The whole point is that time does not exist so she cannot go back if she was there. There has to be time for her to go back.

In suspended world time is stopped so she cannot travel. Suspended world is NOT the end of time and space. They are even stated to work differently.

But for end of time and space it literally doesn’t exist so she wouldn’t be able to go back either. Obviously she can go back if time still existed since that is literally how her power works.

I don’t see how her being able to travel IF circumstances were different with the hyper timeline still EXISTING debunks low 1-C when that is what is required for her power in the first place.

When the time travel is simply something she CANNOT do cause there is NO time. It is gone.

Suspended world≠EOST

There is never a period where time would exist in EOST/subspace so idk why you are saying “input time in something timeless and she could do it as well”and that is supposed to prove something


(Kinda repeated myself a few times)

The page you gave does not mention space-time destruction. It just transported him per the page itself

You have to show that Feldway erased that timeline and Rimuru returned to it despite that. Stopping it from existing at one point and then its a void after isn't the same as retroactive erasure.

Yeah I'm not sure where the beef is coming from, because both are arguing the same point but working from different starting points.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Ultimately speaking the only way this is Low 1-C is assuming that the universe was destroyed retroactively. As in the entire timeline he was in was deleted from start to finish. Which isn't provided by the blog.

If it is, then yeah its Low 1-C since there's nothing to return to and he returned to it anyways. If its not retroactively destroyed then its just a Tier 2 reality.

If it was wiped out completely, as in time no longer existed in any capacity as described here, then its Low 1-C. If you can't show that I can't agree with an upgrade. If you can then there's a hyper-timeline present.

I think I can prove this, but just to be sure, by "Timeline" here you meant the Low 2-C timeline right?
Anyways, I'll answer this in a few minutes, I gotta go somewhere asap.

Anyways, here to post my example of this.
First and foremost, for the scans, you can refer to this post of mine:

Rimuru crashed into something while using the Space-time distortion path
When Vega[and Mai] were trapped inside the Subspace and the others used Breakdown Nostalgia on Vega, it was basically this point:
After they were lost in Subspace, Mai stated that that she could still "jump through space-time" for some reason
However, just during this monologue, they encounter what's called a "Space-time storm", and Mai got caught up in it.
So basically, Mai was the one who got caught up in the Space-time storm. The "Space-time storm" is the Space-time distortion path.
It basically transfers whatever is caught up inside it to a random Dimension, and that's where Mai ended up in, as "Garbage" inside the "Dimension" and inside the "Cardinal World" but outside the Cardinal "Universe"[basically she ended up at the same place as where Rimuru was at "Beyond Space-Time, the Empty Extra-dimensional space outside the timeline], and during that "transfer/jump", Rimuru bumped into her when his first attempt at time wrap failed.
So basically, this is how Mai[the "Garbage" that Ciel mentioned] ended up bumping into Rimuru. The "Space-time storm" basically BFRed Mai from Subspace[outside the "World" and "Dimensions"] inside the "Cardinal World" where she bumped into Rimuru[Just because Ciel mentioned it was "Garbage in Subspace" does NOT mean Rimuru was inside the Subspace at any point, no].
Now, wasn't Rimuru already at the end of the cardinal world? Then how did he bump into Mai INSIDE the cardinal world? Well, remember that Rimuru used Time Wrap twice, the first time, he did a "mistake", and the second time, well, we don't know[cliffhanger-kun]
So basically, Rimuru used Space-Time wrap once, but made a mistake. This "mistake" was that he didn't directly go to the point he wanted to[aka, in front of Feldway, like he did in WN with Yuuki], rather, he jumped to before the Cardinal World was destroyed, but he was still outside the Timeline/Universe[same thing as "Beyond Space-Time; he basically reverse-travelled from "End of Space-Time" to "Beyond Space-Time"]. After that, he used the Space-time leap again, and well, cliff-hanger strikes...

To simply, we can put it into this order.

Now, from these scans, we can see that Rimuru time-leaped twice, I'll be explaining each of the time leap separately, however, know that both are dependent on each other for explanation:
First Time-Leap:

1. Rimuru is sent to "Beyond Space-Time" by Feldway.
2. There, the "Timeline" is "over/had ended", in other words, the 4-D timeline is destroyed, and its just Empty Space.
3. After this, Time passes, despite the Timeline being destroyed/4D time being nonexistent/zero. [first indication that its a higher form of time; we also know that Time doesn't just flow in "Bounded Space"[a single Space-time Continuum], so that's a supporting evidence]
4. Rimuru eventually reaches the "End of Space-Time", the "End of the World", aka where the "Hypertimeline" is destroyed, even that "higher form of time" is zero/nonexistent there.
5. Rimuru uses "Space-Time Leap" and passes through a "Space-Time distortion path", this is his first time leap. [Know that the hyper time is nonexistent here, so he's not travelling in a simple 5D hyper time]
6. However, Rimuru makes a mistake during his first leap, and after this first leap, he "bumps into some garbage", said garbage refers to Mai.
7. However, where was Mai? That's a big point. You see, Mai was originally in Subspace, but got caught up in the Phase Fluctuations and was transported to an Extra-Dimensional Space, said Space is exactly the "Empty Space at the End of the Universe". aka, where the "Universe has been destroyed in its entirety, and going by the standards, we're gonna assume that the "Universe" refers to the Space-Time Continuum of the timeline because its explicitly mentioned that the timeline had ended when the universe was destroyed.
8. From point 1 and 2, we know that "Empty Space after the destruction of the universe" is just "Beyond Space and Time"; Simply say, Rimuru just ended up back to the same spot that Feldway BFRed him to, beyond space and time.

Second Time Leap:

1. Now, Rimuru is again at the "Beyond Space and Time", a point where the "Universe has been destroyed" and the "Timeline has ended"; meaning that 4D time is nonexistent here. There's no "past", "Present" or "future" of that space-time/universe since its destroyed as an entire timeline.
2. Rimuru Time-leaps again, to the "past where everyone is waiting" [aka where the 4D timeline was not destroyed] and although we're left at a cliff-hanger here since the Volume ended, going by the fact that most things about the time travel remain the same in the WN as well, we can say that this time-leap takes Rimuru back to where his friends were, because the same happened in the Web Novel version.

So, there's indeed an example we have of a character traveling to a point in a "Space-time" that shouldn't exist[as an entire space-time on the 4D level]

More indications of the existence of this 5D "Hypertimeline"? Well, Velgrynd states that "Parallel Worlds[4D Timelines] do not overlap in the World-line", I think we can see where this is going given the fact that the verse literally names the Hypertimeline like this.

This is one of the [if not the] most thorough explanation I can give you regarding the timeline destruction stuff. Feel free to ask any questions if you have a doubt or want additional context for any of the points, since I know they might be confusing due to there being a large number of them.

Then we can add this as additional proof. So, on which chapter/page of Volume 21 is this statement placed?

In the PDF I'm reading it, its page 456. In another version I have, its page 485.

Qawsed poses a question not to your arguments, to my arguments. Can you stop confusing the issue with your own opinion in now? This is extremely annoying.

I already explained how both of your arguments aren't too different, and this isn't a thread with only a single participant. Just because you have an argument doesn't mean I cannot present mine, nor does it mean I can simply stop replying and not elaborate on my argument when I see potential in it seeing Qawsedf's replies.
With that, please don't take it as any form of accusation or blame on you, I'm simply doing my part by elaborating on my argument in places where yours lacks something.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Didn't you read this part?

I mean, you literally quoted "Transfer" as in "To move from one place to another". That's not destroying anything.

1. There, the "Timeline" is "over/had ended", in other words, the 4-D timeline is destroyed, and its just Empty Space.

I'm not seeing it being retroactively destroyed here. It ends, but does it end the entire way through. To get a hyper timeline you need Scenario C and I'm not seeing that being presented here.

There's no "past", "Present" or "future" of that space-time/universe since its destroyed as an entire timeline.

If the franchise has an accepted Tier 2 rating because they completely destroyed a space time, then yeah it would count.

I don't know enough about the verse to weigh in, but a basic overview says that they're Tier 2, so I guess you can list me as agreeing with the proposal. Though not the Low 1-A stuff that was mentioned like a page ago.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

I mean, you literally quoted "Transfer" as in "To move from one place to another". That's not destroying anything.

I'm not seeing it being retroactively destroyed here. It ends, but does it end the entire way through. To get a hyper timeline you need Scenario C and I'm not seeing that being presented here.

If the franchise has an accepted Tier 2 rating because they completely destroyed a space time, then yeah it would count.

I don't know enough about the verse to weigh in, but a basic overview says that they're Tier 2, so I guess you can list me as agreeing with the proposal. Though not the Low 1-A stuff that was mentioned like a page ago.

Do we need to wait or can it be closed now?

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Was it achieved or not? I didn't understand XD