Tensura LN Cosmology Upgrade Tier 1 (Retry)

[LoganKroos]

How many staffs are needed

2

 

[CodeCCLL]

How many staffs are needed

At least one more.

2

3 staff, including one admin, are sufficient.

 

[Eisoks]

How many staffs are needed

1 more staff needed for it to get accepted

 

[Infinitinet]

This seems okay.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

How many staffs are needed

At least 3, 2 have already agreed and just one more is needed

 

[CelestialVortex01]

I will go ahead and count this as his vote and apply the changes if by 7 days we are not getting any response from staff

I don't think you can do that...

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Anyways what do u think about this quote given by Qawsed on our previous thread

This is unrelated to this thread as Qawsedf said that about the "End of Space and Time", which exists after the Cardinal World has been destroyed. This thread, in the first place, aims for Low 1-C Worlds

 

[CodeCCLL]

Anyways what do u think about this quote given by Qawsed on our previous thread

Qawsed thought that the different direction/way meant here was time travel back and forth also which is partly true because the reason for using the expression "different direction/way" is because just the events in the branched timelines are different from each other. Chloe goes back in time again and again, but each time the events in her timeline change and the future takes a different shape.

I will go ahead and count this as his vote and apply the changes if by 7 days we are not getting any response from staff

If you do this you will be reported because Qawsed's comment is just leaning towards disagreeing with the old thread.

 

[Mizuki67]

Qawsed thought that the different direction/way meant here was time travel back and forth also which is partly true because the reason for using the expression "different direction/way" is because just the events in the branched timelines are different from each other. Chloe goes back in time again and again, but each time the events in her timeline change and the future takes a different shape.
If you do this you will be reported because Qawsed's comment is just leaning towards disagreeing with the old thread.

I will just wait then. It seems that i still dont know how hypertimelines work

 

[Mizuki67]

With that being said, from what i understand the place beyond space and time should be able to prove hypertimelines because it happened after the Cardinal Universe was destroyed yet the cardinal world having its own branch timelines still remains and was not affected by its destruction

Now I understand

 

[Wikisource]

Bump

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

Bump

 

[LoganKroos]

Sometimes I think that administrators purposely ignore topics so as not to update many characters, or they simply don't have enough administrators, one way or another this is a really annoying problem with this site

 

[Eisoks]

Sometimes I think that administrators purposely ignore topics so as not to update many characters, or they simply don't have enough administrators, one way or another this is a really annoying problem with this site

Exactly my thought

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

Sometimes I think that administrators purposely ignore topics so as not to update many characters, or they simply don't have enough administrators, one way or another this is a really annoying problem with this site

To be honest I think the same, they have been tagged several times and they don't even check it.

 

[karo_senpaii]

To be honest I think the same, they have been tagged several times and they don't even check it.

Or they might just have real life stuff they are dealing with and are busy? I'm sure like 20 other threads pinged them as you did

 

[Bernkastelll]

bump

 

[CodeCCLL]

Sometimes I think that administrators purposely ignore topics so as not to update many characters, or they simply don't have enough administrators, one way or another this is a really annoying problem with this site

They do not have to evaluate every thread posted on their message walls; it is normal for them not to evaluate the verses that do not interest them or that they do not know.

However, further staff promotions may be considered.

 

[Wikisource]

Sometimes I think that administrators purposely ignore topics so as not to update many characters, or they simply don't have enough administrators, one way or another this is a really annoying problem with this site

Well, this could be understand because they have many request in their message wall, including the verse they don't like or don't know. They also need spend their time to their life. You may feel annoying but if we have many problems need to be solve, they have them too. All we can do now is wait patiently until someone replies.

 

[Berga14]

Anyway i think we can stop talking about staff activity here, at least 2 out of the 4 pages here are full of useless comments. I don't want a 5th one.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

They do not have to evaluate every thread posted on their message walls; it is normal for them not to evaluate the verses that do not interest them or that they do not know.

However, further staff promotions may be considered.

This seems the most reasonable, yeah.

 

[Bernkastelll]

bump

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

Bump

 

[Shiraito983]

bump

 

[Wikisource]

Bump

 

[Bernkastelll]

bump

 

[Qawsedf234]

Qawsed thought that the different direction/way meant here was time travel back and forth also which is partly true because the reason for using the expression "different direction/way" is because just the events in the branched timelines are different from each other. Chloe goes back in time again and again, but each time the events in her timeline change and the future takes a different shape.

So this is per the definition not a qualification for two temporal dimensions

However, caution is necessary. As explained above, we require that the additional time dimension is "a line comprised of uncountably infinitely many points." If new versions of timelines are only created if they are changed, due to time travel for example, then the number of "snapshots" of the timeline would be far more limited. The amount of snapshots would be one more than the times the timeline was changed. So, for example, if the timeline is rewritten 2 times, there would be 3 snapshots of the timeline: the original, the timeline after the first rewrite and the timeline after the second rewrite. That are far less than the required uncountably infinitely many.

The second key point is this part

Things like timelines having time that passes at different rates would not qualify, as even the theory of general relativity already establishes that with just one regular time dimension time can flow at different rates in different places. Time flowing backwards in another universe would also not qualify it to have an additional time dimension, as it would still use the same directions of past and future as regular time, just with events playing out in reverse. For the same reasons, statements about independent time streams or of separate kinds of time, which could flow parallel to the original time, would not qualify.

By virtue of the timelines moving in a linear direction that goes forwards-backwards is evidence against two temporal dimensions.

The final aspect is that being beyond or having no space-time isn't evidence either

Neither would dimensions that are timeless voids or are described as beyond spacetime in general qualify. Unless they contradict themselves, these realms should not have a time dimension at all, with change in them happening according to other principles. If they, on the other hand, do contradict themselves, the statement of them not having regular time would inherently not be reliable, making the idea equally unusable.

Overall none of what has been presented really meets the qualifications for two temporal dimensions. The only piece of evidence would be the End of Time having time, but that falls into the "Not reliable and therefore not useable" clause for space-times.

Overall I would still list myself as disagree. I think the author using "Time Axis" just causes confusion since we use a similar but unrelated term for Temporal Axis.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

So this is per the definition not a qualification for two temporal dimensions

The second key point is this part

By virtue of the timelines moving in a linear direction that goes forwards-backwards is evidence against two temporal dimensions.

The final aspect is that being beyond or having no space-time isn't evidence either


Overall none of what has been presented really meets the qualifications for two temporal dimensions. The only piece of evidence would be the End of Time having time, but that falls into the "Not reliable and therefore not useable" clause for space-times.

I am not really knowledgeable on this subject.(and everyone else is sleeping) but I think you misunderstood the argument. Cause the End of time doesn’t have time. Beyond space and time has time. Beyond ≠End.

Idk if you read this yet.sandbox that tries to explain it.

Berga14/COSMOLOGY sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

Overall I would still list myself as disagree. I think the author using "Time Axis" just causes confusion since we use a similar but unrelated term for Temporal Axis.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Idk if you read this yet.sandbox that tries to explain it.

It wasn't in the OP so I didn't see it.

But a quick overview it still has all the same issues I went over before. This part for example

To summarize the above points, basically, there is a Distinction between Timelines and Worlds, a "World" is simply a Higher Timeline (Hypertimeline) that has a timeline for every of its snapshot, as stated when Chloe went through an Infinite/Endless loop where each loop are stated to be a different timeline. And so, each World would be a Low 1-C 5D structure.

Is directly addressed here

However, caution is necessary. As explained above, we require that the additional time dimension is "a line comprised of uncountably infinitely many points." If new versions of timelines are only created if they are changed, due to time travel for example, then the number of "snapshots" of the timeline would be far more limited. The amount of snapshots would be one more than the times the timeline was changed. So, for example, if the timeline is rewritten 2 times, there would be 3 snapshots of the timeline: the original, the timeline after the first rewrite and the timeline after the second rewrite. That are far less than the required uncountably infinitely many.

Infinite =/= uncountable infinite. So it wouldn't be Low 1-C.

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

Overall none of what has been presented really meets the qualifications for two temporal dimensions. The only piece of evidence would be the End of Time having time, but that falls into the "Not reliable and therefore not useable" clause for space-times.

Could you look at these arguments, and those in the previous thread and put them both together, to see if the conclusion is the same?

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Could you look at these arguments, and those in the previous thread and put them both together, to see if the conclusion is the same?

Other thread was a different argument I believe so that wouldn’t do anything. Best he can do is read whole thread but doubt he is changing his mind

 

[Mizuki67]

It wasn't in the OP so I didn't see it.

But a quick overview it still has all the same issues I went over before. This part for example

Is directly addressed here

Infinite =/= uncountable infinite. So it wouldn't be Low 1-C.

It is the wrong sandbox but you see we still feel like it is not possible to travel to a destroyed timeline unless there is another time axis cutting through it

 

[Mizuki67]

The final aspect is that being beyond or having no space-time isn't evidence either

Overall none of what has been presented really meets the qualifications for two temporal dimensions. The only piece of evidence would be the End of Time having time, but that falls into the "Not reliable and therefore not useable" clause for space-times.

The place beyond space and time still has time moving on it. That destination is still called beyond time and it isnot referring to the end of space time. Time is not moving only when they reach the end of space and time. This is evident by the fact that Chloe time travel can't work or even reach there.

I already made it clear that the end of time cannot be a hypertimeline it self since it exists outside of space time in the first place which we would argue for something later.

 

[Mizuki67]

The place beyond space and time still has time moving on it. Time is not moving only when they reach the end of space and time

As to why Rimuru ended up at the end of time I would like to add that space time storm or space time distortion paths usually exists and they always end up to an unknown place - Volume 21 when someone got sent beyond space and time or when they travel to the strange place between world that is unbounded by limitation of time.- volume 17 and 21 You can even end up in the end of an empty universe or in the middle of great destruction before life was borned. - volume 21 . So you can basically get bfred if you are thrown to somewhere in space and time.

Do note that you would also not use words like reached to the end of space time if it is referring to the end of that timeline instead you will say that time will reach to 0 which is literally not the case for tensura when you check volume 21. We already know that the timeline is over after Ciel was jumped to a destination beyond time but the point is Time is still moving there which should have been 0 but they still reach the void at the end which should not add up.

<<Yes, I have. In Feldway's "Chrono-Saltation", we are transported to the far reaches of space-time. There, the life of the stars had long expired, but the world had not yet collapsed. I assume that Feldway's power was limited to destroying the Cardinal World universe.
We do not know exactly what happened in that time line.

We do not know exactly what happened in that time line, because when Ciel-san was jumped, the whole thing was over. We don't even know what happened to Ivarage or how he moved, but what we do know for sure is that the world was not destroyed.

—OTL Light Novel; Volume 21, Epilogue: The Point of No Return

I don't know if that was what Feldway wanted, but it doesn't matter to me.
<- After that, I wandered around in a universe where not even a star twinkled, and watched the end of the world. -I couldn't quite understand what Ciel-san was talking about... You mean to say that the destination of the jump was "beyond time", and from there time passed and you reached "the end of time and space"? I had no idea what he was talking about, like he had witnessed the end of the world. I mean, there was no way he could survive in such a state. I thought "If I'm going to tell a lie, I'd better tell a better one", but then I remembered that Ciel-san does not tell lies. Sometimes I was deceived, but it was not a lie but a story that I misunderstood or was made to misunderstand. Does that mean that this place is really the end of the world?

<<< Yes, that's right.


—OTL Light Novel; Volume 21, Epilogue :The Point of No Return

It seems like this information is missing from CodeCCLL blog that is why you still confused

So yeah the end of space time /= beyond space and time

 

[Mizuki67]

So this is per the definition not a qualification for two temporal dimensions

The second point is this part.

By virtue of the timelines moving in a linear direction that goes forwards-backwards is evidence against two temporal dimensions.

We never argued about Chloe time travel being a hypertimeline anymore. This is no longer relevant to the op

This is the new sandbox not Berga14 sandbox

CodeCCLL/TSSDK Timelines & Hypertimelines Explanation

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Meli_Tempest]

It wasn't in the OP so I didn't see it.

But a quick overview it still has all the same issues I went over before. This part for example

Is directly addressed here

Infinite =/= uncountable infinite. So it wouldn't be Low 1-C.

We are not advocating that Chloe's time travel is the way to obtain L1-C.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

So this is per the definition not a qualification for two temporal dimensions

The timelines are not created when Chloe travels. Rather, they are branching by themselves, constantly, it's Chloe that simply travels to another timeline each time in her loop.

The second key point is this part
By virtue of the timelines moving in a linear direction that goes forwards-backwards is evidence against two temporal dimensions.

We aren't aiming for Low 1-C for the timelines, we're aiming for low 1-C for the overarching Hypertimeline[the world] that encompasses all the timelines inside it.

The final aspect is that being beyond or having no space-time isn't evidence either

This isn't about "lacking" Space or Time, no, its not as simple as that. This is the chronological order[from the reader's viewpoint] of what happened:

Rimuru and Ciel get transferred to "Beyond Space and Time" --> It is "Empty Space"[not Void], outside the Timeline they were in previously, BUT the Cardinal World has still not been destroyed" --> Ciel and Rimuru[sleeping] drift in this Empty space outside the Timelines and Ciel waits for what felt like an eternity for Rimuru to wake up --> The eternity passes when they reach the "End of Space and Time" --> Rimuru wakes up --> Ciel mentions they have reached the point of Emptiness[Void].
The "時空の果て" is used, which means the "End of Space and Time" rather then "Beyond Space and Time" [時空の彼方].

Overall none of what has been presented really meets the qualifications for two temporal dimensions. The only piece of evidence would be the End of Time having time, but that falls into the "Not reliable and therefore not useable" clause for space-times.

The OP is not using "End of Space-Time" as a means to achieve Low 1-C, that thing is beyond the scope of an individual "World", so we're only limiting this OP to beyond space-time and the world itself.

Overall I would still list myself as disagree. I think the author using "Time Axis" just causes confusion since we use a similar but unrelated term for Temporal Axis.

I think you're misunderstanding the OP here heavily, because we're not using the time axis stuff to get Low 1-C this time, unlike the previous tier 1 CRT.

Is directly addressed here
Infinite =/= uncountable infinite. So it wouldn't be Low 1-C.

I think "Constantly Branching" is enough to suggest that they're branching at every instance in time.

However, overall, the aim for Low 1-C is not via completely that, but essentially this from my earlier reply:

I would say that the fact that Rimuru was literally BFRed to outside the Timeline itself, yet time still somehow flowed, is also a good backing feat. I mean, if you are IiteraIIy outside the 4D Space-time and are fIoating in a hyperspace, you wouldn't experience 4D time to begin with. If the cardinal World's Hypertimeline was parallel to the timelines inside it, there wouldn't be any reason for time to still flow, because it would be something like this.

So Rimuru wouldn't have experienced Time, But time was still flowing, which means it is something like this.

This way, even if Rimuru was outside the timeIines, he would stiII be inside the world itseIf, and even if he was outside 4D time, he would stiII experience Time because there is a hypertimeIine orthogonaI to the space he is in.

《──その後、星すら瞬かぬ宇宙を漂うように彷徨さまよい、この世界の終わりを見届けたのです》

After that, he wandered aimlessly through space, where not even the stars twinkled, and witnessed the end of the world.

This isn't even too hard to understand tbh

Now, one could say, why wouldn't Rimuru travel to another timeline instead? Because it would cause the overlapping contradiction since there is only one timeline in which he doesn't exist, that is, the timelines he got BFRed out of.
And that, in itself, is another way to explain it, because normally, the same identity existing under the same Time Axis/Time Line causes a contradiction, thus why no two multiple identities can overlap under a single timeline. However, the fact that there can still exist multiple same identities in different timelines individually, means that the higher Hypertimeline, which encompasses all the branching timelines, is essentially different.

That was pretty much an overall summary of the previous discussion before you came, and I think it's quite simplified so everyone can understand the point.

 

[Wikisource]

Overall none of what has been presented really meets the qualifications for two temporal dimensions. The only piece of evidence would be the End of Time having time, but that falls into the "Not reliable and therefore not useable" clause for space-times.

Overall I would still list myself as disagree. I think the author using "Time Axis" just causes confusion since we use a similar but unrelated term for Temporal Axis.

Well, I'm not really highly appreciated branching timelines, and Chloe's time travel too. The key I think about is The End of Space and Time. Same as Astral's explaination, The End of Space and Time ≠ Beyond Space and Time. In the End of Space and Time, the world or timeline has arrived to nothingness. This mean a space-time continuum has been completely destroyed. When Rimuru can comeback the time before it destroyed mean there are a hyper-timeline where existance and destruction of a timeline is some events was recorded by hyper-timeline.

The temporal dimension generally works like an "event storage machine". That is, if you do action A at time point X, it will be "saved" in the timeline. Simply put, every action in space is tied to time. Therefore, you can travel back in time to change your actions in the past because those actions are saved. Conversely, you cannot go to places that existed before time was created by time travel. Simply because you cannot go to a place that does not exist or rather is not "saved". And when the entire timeline is destroyed, the "saved" events will also disappear, so time travel is also impossible. The fact that a character can travel to places before time was created or travel back in time before the timeline was completely destroyed suggests a hyper-temporal dimension , where the existence of the timeline is just "saved" events. That is, a timeline before and after being created is just "two still images" saved and linked together by a hyper-temporal dimension. It could also be explained that every lower spatial dimension is embedded in a higher spatial dimension. Or that events from lower temporal dimensions are embedded in higher temporal dimensions.

 

[Qawsedf234]

think "Constantly Branching" is enough to suggest that they're branching at every instance in time.

For a MWI to be Low 1-C you'd have to prove infinite branches every instance with those infinite branches also branching an infinite amount every instance. Branching constantly is 2-B to 2-A on its own.

BFRed to outside the Timeline itself, yet time still somehow flowed, is also a good backing feat.

Time flowing outside a timeline isn't enough for a perpendicular time axis. A temporal direction doesn't have a limit on what it affects, since it's just a direction of the flow. It moving differently compared to a normal universe isn't enough in my opinion.

mean there are a hyper-timeline where existance and destruction of a timeline is some events was recorded by hyper-timeline.

If you can prove this, then yes it would count as evidence for a Hypertimeline.

 

[CodeCCLL]

If you can prove this, then yes it would count as evidence for a Hypertimeline.

The part you say "doesn't count" is "Chloe's time travel" , as I explain in detail on the blog. In "Rimuru's time travel" , the "main timeline" where the infinite branching occurred in the first place has been "destroyed". However, Rimuru can still travel from World's timeline to "the destroyed past of the main timeline".

I think you're just not making the connection between the statements in the blog.