Tensei Slime Conceptual Manipulation

[GLHF22]

First we know that Great spirit are concepts

"In nothingness power finds its fill. That is a holy spirit. The great holy spirit is the source of power. Among these, light and darkness, the two great spirits. Who came to exist at the same moment as the world. But, the world was without form, a ephemeral existence. Light and shadow, darkness and the light. Two existences that shall never interweave. One day, the great spirit time was born. The child of light and darkness. And thus the world began to move. The moving world spun, without purpose, around itself. Inside the flowing currents of life and death, Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, and Sky―these five great spirits were born. And since then, these were the great eight spirits. Until the light consumes the world, erasing darkness. Until a new spirit is born, erasing all. Life and death, heralding the coming end of the world." and then Angel , Demon , and Spirits are fragment of Great spirits " Demons are an existence like spirits or angels. It seemed to be an existence that received power receives from the spirit of Darkness, and specialized in the demonic attribute. Similarly, the Angel specialized in the holy attribute of the spirit of Light, the exception to this seemed to be called a Spirit." "By the way, great spirits did not have ego―they were masses of energy. The Fire Spirit was just an excess fragment of the entire mass. Like a monster, this fragment gained self awareness. And this self-aware fragment of pure energy thus became a monster. in a few words-paranormal phenomena is what it is, not that i understand or i want understand, but i do get what she want us to do, the point is " Create Another Fragment is that it?" Great Spirits are concepts, the sentient spirits are fragments of concepts, does that mean Spirits are also conceptual? And They are lack Souls and only gain a soul when summoned into the material world: "Summoning.It means to be summoned to the material world from the spiritual world. By obtaining a temporary body, the pleasures of the surface could be tasted. That is smell, touch and taste. I could collect enough information to control the world. A summoned demon without an ego seems to be affected by the personality of the Summoning master. Various kind of information is received from the summoner's side. According to the contents of the request, it seemed that I could obtain a lump of information called "Soul".*We could evolve into higher beings if we collected a lot of "Souls"." Beings in the Level of True Demon Lord and True Dragon are able to Perma kill Spirits, Angel, and Demons by destroying its Fragments (Concepts) "And then, that guy appeared. Since being in this world, I felt fear for the first time. The existence of a genuinely strong being was carved into my soul. A demon with red hair. He appeared before us, and easily swept us away like we were just insects. My followers and I were exterminated. "Fumu. There's no resistance. Boring" Along with fear, I felt hatred gushing forth from the depths of my heart. My subordinates, my companions were…! Amidst the anger, an ability awakened inside me." - Diablo When killed Demons in Underworld Thats also means True Dragons like Veldora are fine even if his concepts is destroyed, for more evidence in gaiden chapters Veldora is fine when he tanked an attack that can destroy the concept of time "If it is considered to be a transition of time, if the expansive power disappears from this universe, the concept of time is lost. ÒÇÇIf expansion of the universe is positive energy, the phenomenon occurring in front of you is a negative energy. Negative energy is special, it is not of the property of defending and doing something. ÒÇÇVeldora is not affected by nearly all interference waves. That is that "probability manipulation" is all-purpose. ÒÇÇEven if this was an attack from an enemy, it would have never worked. ÒÇÇEven if the world is destroyed, Veldora can move to other dimensions without being affected. ÒÇÇ ÒÇÇEnergy is gone - that is, time has stopped - even in the world, it is possible to work without problems with Veldora." This actually an upgrade for Veldora or True dragons for be able to tank a Low 2C explosion Furthermore Rimuru before EOS is able to survive a Low 2C Explosion "That's right. We were hurled to beyond space and time due to Yuuki's attack. The lifespan of the planet has already ended a long time ago, but the collapse of the world hasn't yet been reached. From that I deduced, Yuuki probably couldn't destroy the world itself yet. When he was at the phase where he destroyed the celestial bodies as well as the space-time continuum, I presume that Yuuki's lifespan had come to an end. However, I can't judge whether his wish was fulfilled or not. After that, we wandered around as we drifted in the space and I witnessed the end of this universe." That Rimuru is after he awake from his sleep for Countless Years in the Void, and keep in mind that Rimuru state fo existance after EOS and Before EOS Rimuru is the same And That also means Rimuru is able to Resist a conceptual Manip (Or maybe his concepts has been erased but he is fine since he also a true dragons) from The Last Great Spirit who born in the future that Erasing All "And since then, these were the great eight spirits. Until the light consumes the world, erasing darkness. Until a new spirit is born, erasing all. Life and death, heralding the coming end of the world." And again, that Rimuru is still Sleep in the end of time and space So i think we have to add Conceptual Manipulation (Destruction) to True Dragons and existence who comparable to them, and Resistance to Conceptual manipulation for Top Tiers Tensei Character, and True Dragons are fine even if their concepts is destroyed

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

You're really insistent about this concept stuff aren't you?

Already said before we don't know if all spirits are fragments of the great spirits, also it was seemingly retconned in the light novel anyway so sort of pointless to discuss atm till we see it brought up again.

Demons and angels aren't exactly spirits, just like them, they are more accurately spiritual lifeforms, they just receive power from the great spirits of light and darkness.

Nobody is able to permakill demons and angels, it's literally stated by Gii and Testarossa that if they die they would just resurrect, and this is when facing off against top tier characters, only one who can permanently put them down is Rimuru due to absorbing them.

Pretty sure Diablo didn't permakill any demons, sure it was mentioned they would just regenerate.

Didn't you say you got the translations for the gaiden from like a autotranslator or something? If so would rather wait for the accurate translations. Regardless the gaiden takes place after eos so if legit the dragons would only get a new key, and not some sort of retroactive scaling for everybody by scaling to them.

An unknown amount of time passed after he was sent to the end of space-time, so upgrading Rimuru to Low 2-C, and then say scale others to him doesn't work, and no point in adding a key for this since he didn't do anything except tank the universe being destroyed and was a sort of transitional phase to his 2-B form.

 

[GLHF22]

"ÒÇîAh――ÒÇì


The first one to react was Garasha, she pulled Pico and threw her towards Dino.

She protected Pico from the tentacle with her own body, but that was her limit.

When the tentacle grasped Garasha, it dragged her into『Absolute Barrier』.

From inside Pico's arm who had lost her balance, Gaia jumped to Garasha while it criedÒÇîKyui~~!!ÒÇì.

Everything happened instantaneously.


ÒÇîGarasha!ÒÇì


Although Dino shouted, he couldn't move.

Because he understood that if he moved now,『Absolute Barrier』 would collapse.


ÒÇîI'll――ÒÇì

ÒÇîStop! You'll disappear if you enter it――ÒÇì


Dino stopped Pico, who was about to jump in.

Needless to say, the power inside wasn't something she could endure.

Even if he did that, Dino knew that he would end up losing Pico as well.

(Damn it! If only I didn't let my guard down……)

Dino lamented, but he couldn't do anything.

He had no other choice but to give up."

Even though Diablon cant True Dragons are able to perma kill Angel and Demons

Angel and Demons are the same like spirit they are fragment of the Great spirit even if spirit not fuelled by great spirits


" Demons are an existence like spirits or angels. It seemed to be an existence that received power receives from the spirit of Darkness, and specialized in the demonic attribute.

Similarly, the Angel specialized in the holy attribute of the spirit of Light, the exception to this seemed to be called a Spirit."

By the way, great spirits did not have ego―they were masses of energy.
The Fire Spirit was just an excess fragment of the entire mass.
Like a monster, this fragment gained self awareness.
And this self-aware fragment of pure energy thus became a monster. in a few words-paranormal phenomena is what it is, not that i understand or i want understand, but i do get what she want us to do, the point is " Create Another Fragment is that it?"

For that gaiden chapters yes i got that from auto translator, but is just for more Evidence for be able to fine tanked an attack that can destroy a concepts

even you erase that evidence it still doesnt matter since Rimuru who also a true dragon is still fine when he faced the last great spirits, even though the other True Dragons are unknown

and also i didnt upgraded Rimuru to Low 2C but maybe only his durability, its a feats that makes him resist or fine to Conceptual manipulation, and even though top tiers tensei cannot survive or resist a conceptual destruction, True dragons can

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

What you just posted is that they would disappear, nothing proves they would permadie, and what was going to kill Pico was the combo attack from Diablo, Dino, Benimaru and Zegion, a really specific technique, it wasn't a true dragon that was gonna kill Pico.

Plus it's contradicted by Gii not caring if he die cause he would come back anyway despite facing off against ppl comparable to him, bare in mind Gii>True Dragons.

You just reposted the same thing you did in the op which literally says demons are like spirits, not that they are spirits.

The stuff from the autotranslator shouldn't be considered till we get the accurate translations.

Scales only to Rimuru since an unknown amount of time passed and he was already in the process of becoming a God.

No point in upgrading his durability as i said before, but resistance to concept manipulation for Rimuru alone is fine though.

 

[GLHF22]

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[Celestial_Pegasus]

Dragons don't scale even if we assumed his state of existence never changes, why would we apply to the dragons and not just see this as exclusive to Rimuru? He is far superior to them, and it's never stated dragons resist concept hax only that having their conceptual selves destroyed isn't the same as dying, see the thing here is Rimuru's conceptual self was never destroyed in the first place he straight up tanked it.

Use concept hax against dragons>they die, and get reborn, use it against Rimuru>he laughs it off as nothing happens. Totally different.

They don't scale, and i still don't agree with this whole Rimuru's state never changes at the end, we are only shown these feats ie concept resist and acausality at the end why should we assume a weaker Rimuru has it when it was only shown by a stronger one and was never stated that ie his state of his existence never changed?

Occam's razor says he got it from countless years of getting stronger, characters get random resistances and stuff all the time in fiction.

 

[GLHF22]

Rimuru already at his peak after he Named Ciel and get Turn Null, his skill was not really change, only after he Absorbs Yuuki, that he gained literally everything, Yuuki himself cannot do shit to him before EOS and forced to BFRed him, and Ciel stated that he Continously Produce Turn Null energy and never stated evolving his body, and again right after he got BFRed by Yuuki to nd of time and space means The Last Great Spirit already born

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The last spirit ends the universe, yuuki didn't succeed in doing so, some time after yuuki failed, the spirit did end the universe, which rimuru tanked after spending an unknown amount of time asleep getting stronger while ciel was using his body.

Again prove rimuru had these abilities before, prove this isn't just some random abilities that characters get in fiction without any explanation.

I am not even arguing he has them cause he is stronger anymore, i am arguing we only see it when he is stronger, so it's just an unexplained thing he gained cause he wasn't shown to have it before

You can't really prove it's not since we only saw these abilities when he is eos and not earlier.

 

[GLHF22]

You cannot do that. Just because its unexplained doenst means it never exist, if it never explained means its nothing should be explain if he already have it in the first place, Just like its never explained when he became god Doesnt means he is not a God it just means he already a god in the very begining

and don't equate Slime Verse with other Fiction, it's stupid when you say it, just because other fiction does it, doesn't mean this fiction too, Rimuru of course doesn't get random abilities without reason its implied that Ciel can create any skills and Ciel has been around since he became True dragon

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Literally nothing proves he had it before, why should we assume he did? I am just sticking to what has been shown, you're the one making assumptions here.

No idea what you're trying to say about him being a God , he only became a God at the end, and a legit one, you keep pretending that he isn't and just got an ap boost, when he has been called a God, and is superior to the God of the verse.

Because other fiction does it means that it happening in slime isn't surprising, it's a common occurrence in fiction, but you want to ignore it by making up your own headcannon, by your logic because a persons state of existence doesn't change i can just claim a character has the abilities they displayed at a later date, from the very beginning.

 

[GLHF22]

The only one who making assumptions is you, there is never explained he evolved again, and you assume he evolve and become God , and then again you said he just get random ability out of nowhere, its all just assumptions, im just stick with the verse,

>First Rimuru BFRed to end of time and space >Faced the last Great Spirit >And then Ciel produce Turn Null continuously

End

So can you see the difference? My logic doenst apply for other, its out of context

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

He was never called a God before eos, God is only used to refer to veldanava and eos rimuru, and his body clearly underwent changes, so no i don't think i am making assumptions.

Again ppl in fiction gain random abilities all the time.

Pretty wrong here considering he was asleep the entire time, which is why ciel took over, and again some time passed since the world wasn't completely destroyed yet when he arrive at the end of space time.

I am saying time has passed which is enough time for say a random ability to occur/rimuru to gain new abilities/get stronger, while you are saying rimuru is completely static despite the fact that tanking a low 2-C attack was above rimru's paygrade before being bfr'ed, what you're suggesting is that even rimuru pre bfr is low 2-C which is unsubstantiated, and we know time passed so he obviously got stronger.

Regardless not interested in arguing this anymore, already presented my points.

 

[GLHF22]

He multiple Times called a God,

His Followers

Western Army

Even a paladin

First when we don't know that Rimuru can tank High 4C attack we think he only 6A

Second we also don't know if Beelzebub can absorbs a High 3A attack

Last we don't know that Beelzebub can swallow a universe when its out of control

Latter on we know that by the feats that has shown on the WN even though WN never explained it

The same case for Rimuru's resistance simply because we barely saw he fighting, you know that the only real battle that Rimuru carried out in the final arc was the final battle