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Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken (LN) Minor CRT

First, I think many of @Celestial Pegaus's points make sense. I also give my own opinions.

Hinata (First Key)
"crush all physical and spiritual presences within its defined space" and "made cells and souls vanish without a trace" isn't enough for Existence Erasure. THe best I see for it is Deconstruction. An erased Statements is needed, in my view, to Existence Erasure

Rimuru (First Key)
I don't he had Accelerated Development. Like Celestial Pegasus said he was born strong beacuse he was born form Veldora's aura which make least B rank monster. Then, he got stronger after being naming Veldora. There is an argument that be made that he also get stronger with each characters that he absorb as for example, he got stronger after absorbing Orc Disaster Geld enough to onseshot a dragon's on it level later.

Rimuru (Second Key)
If Disintegration is not Existence Erasure then Melt Slash is not Existence Erasure either and is whatever ability that Disintegration qualify as.

Resurrection would be fine.

Demon Lord's Haki potency
Demon Lord's Haki = Passive Sleep, Confusion, Fear, Death and Radiation manipulation

Coercion = Passive Sleep, Confusion and Fear manipulation

I don't think Corcion was passive since it look it required activation and was based in magic aura which is always active.

The other point that Celestial Pegasus's made look fine to me.

Minor Adjustments
I agree with Neo's and Celestial's points on the AP
 
@Elizhaa for the Accelerated Development, he doesn't need to be weak for getting that. The point is that he was able to catch up in terms of strength between the Octagrams(like for example Guy who has eons of experience and strength and Rimuru is getting closer to him) in a matter of short time (Like 2 or 3 years) and he was able to even master some skill handling too plus he is almost catching up in terms of skill compare to Hakurou who has 300+ years experience so yeah I believe Rimuru should have that
 
He had many factors that made him stronger as @Celestial Pegasus and I explained. You could make argument he would get Accelerated Development because:

  • All of Creation: Provides full coverage of all non-concealed phenomenons.
where aside Power Mimicry, he learned abilities quickly because Information Analysis as i.e he learned a lot of magic quickly from reading library worth of books in a short timeframe. Then, again, these could be simply be intelligence feats.
 
Well it fits the criteria too plus this too:

Cause of Accelerated Development

  • Training: The character gains increased results from performing training appropriate for raising a statistic or ability.
  • Battle: The characters development is faster than normal while battling. Different from the "Training"-Type Accelerated Development this type has a specific focus on increase in battle, which is larger than the increase gained through normal training. List Reactive Power Level instead of this Type of Accelerated Growth.
  • Leveling: Usually used in RPG like settings. The character gains more exp than others for performing the same tasks and/or gains larger increases upon leveling up.
  • Passive: The character can train by doing either nothing in particular, only everyday activities or things that he can constantly do at the side during everyday life.
  • Other: Various other causes of accelerated growth are imaginable and should be explained on the profiles if applicable.(Can learn abilities instantly due to Great Sage like reading a book in the library then learns them instantaneously)
Type of Developing Property

  • Physical Stats: The users strength, speed and/or durability grows at a faster pace than normal. This can be further separated by which of these statistics grow at a faster rate.
  • Intelligence: The users intelligence grows at a rapid pace or it is able to quickly expand its knowledge through its high intelligence.
  • Abilities: The user can learn new skills and abilities, or improve and master them, at a much faster pace than normal.
  • Other: Various other properties could develop at an accelerated rate or only very specific subsets of the above apply. Such cases should be explained on the profiles.
 
I don't think the cause would be "Battle" because from what I know Rimuru was never stated to grow stronger in battle at this point in the LN. The others points though seem fine.

Also, reading these many books would take lifetimes for even schoolard:

I quickly began browsing through the magic tomes. There were so many here, you could never finish them in a lifetime if you read them any normal way. So, um, apologies to the diligent scholars out there putting in all that time in reading rooms, but I'm using the Great Sage to read these suckers.
If someone watched me in there, it'd probably look like I was just running a hand over a book, then meekly returning it to the shelf. But my hand was taking in the entirety of each book, recording it fully and accurately. Running the Sage and Glutton skills in parallel, I copied each magic tome into my mind at breakneck speed. I could take the time to pore over the contents later—or really, I could let the Sage do that. All I had to do here was pluck a book from the shelves, then put it back.

Would that be enough to let me harness the magic inside, though…? Received. It is possible to thoroughly examine the contents with Analyze and Assess, then comprehend it with the All of Creation skill. Once comprehended and stored within memory space, the magic may be executed with Cast Cancel.

Really? Whoa. So all I gotta do is think about what kinda magic I want? What a crazy set of skills. There's just no end to the wonders the Sage brings me.

In that case, it's settled. I'm not even gonna bother reading the titles of these books. Just in and out, shelve and unshelve, over and over. Each volume converts itself into knowledge for me. The mere thought made me want to do this more than ever.

So over the next two days, I read those books until I was blue in the face, successfully memorizing every one in the magic-tome stacks. That was how I rounded out my little vacation. The other librarians and visitors gave me passing stares, like I was some kind of wacko, but I had no regrets. Before my lofty goal of learning more magic, that was just a trivial detail
~ LN Volume 4 chapter 5​
 
There are several points for why Rimuru should have Accelerated Development aside from the ones mentioned so far:

  • While all monsters can expand their magicule storage by eating other monsters, having a skill for doing so like Starved or Predator/Gluttony is inherently superior
  • In addition to the usual conversion of the target monster's body into expanded magicule capacity, Rimuru via Predator/Gluttony can also "eat" the skills of a monster and obtain them for himself in that way.
  • Via Degenerate, Rimuru can not only create new skills via mixing other skills with each other, but he can also disassemble useless/duplicate skills into magicule storage capacity, essentially reversing the process where magicule storage capacity is consumed to gain skills
  • Via Gluttony's Supply/Receive or Beelzebuth's Food Chain, Rimuru can apply Power Bestowal or Power Mimicry with anyone connected to him via soul corridors, i.e. all 160.000+ citizen of the Jura Tempest Federation
  • It's stated that Rimuru's handling of energy is so anormally efficient that it shocked even Ifrit and Veldora
 
So we have;

Hinata First Key

  • Existence Erasure rejected (Concluded)
Rimuru First Key

  • Accelerated Development accepted (Concluded)
Rimuru Second Key

  • Existence Erasure rejected (Concluded)
  • Resurrection accepted (Concluded)
  • Reactive Evolution accepted (Concluded)


Demon Lord's aura - need more information (Concluded)

Minor Adjustments - nothing will change (Concluded)
 
For the Disintegration is sounds like it's a good matter manipulation but deconstruction seems good too. Hinata doesnt have both of them in her profile tho
 
Elizhaa said:
I don't think the cause would be "Battle" because from what I know Rimuru was never stated to grow stronger in battle at this point in the LN. The others points though seem fine.
Click to expand...
Eh, there were such incidents though.

  • Predator-ing Ranga's papa wolf in "mid battle" and instantly using the newly obtained mimicry and Skills
  • Learning Icicle lance in the middle of the Ifrit battle just by Predator-ing one instance of it
  • Learning the Modelwill Art from just a little inspiration from watching Gelmud use his magic balls and Death March Dance - note that unlike magic and skills, Rimuru cannot learn Arts via Predator-ing
  • Learning how to break out of aura suppression at the first try in a way others deem to nigh-impossible (against Gazel Dwargo)
  • Learning Magic Aura just by being struck by inspiration while looking to find a way to beat a Lesser Daemon without raising a fuss
  • Coming up with Megiddo after seeing Disintegration used once
  • Learning Predictive Simulation through Raphael by watching Hinata use it once
  • Cover the greatest "elemental weakness" of a monster by absorbing one Melt Slash, making any Absolute Defense impervious to Spirit Particle attacks and by extention to most Holy-magic attacks that are usually very effective against monsters and are basically the "anti-magicule".
Yea that's quite a lot, if I say so myself. Escpacially since fights aren't really the "main focus" of the story.
 
NeoSuperior said:
Elizhaa said:
I don't think the cause would be "Battle" because from what I know Rimuru was never stated to grow stronger in battle at this point in the LN. The others points though seem fine.
Click to expand...
Eh, there were such incidents though.
  • Predator-ing Ranga's papa wolf in "mid battle" and instantly using the newly obtained mimicry and Skills
  • Learning Icicle lance in the middle of the Ifrit battle just by Predator-ing one instance of it
  • Learning the Modelwill Art from just a little inspiration from watching Gelmud use his magic balls and Death March Dance - note that unlike magic and skills, Rimuru cannot learn Arts via Predator-ing
  • Learning how to break out of aura suppression at the first try in a way others deem to nigh-impossible (against Gazel Dwargo)
  • Learning Magic Aura just by being struck by inspiration while looking to find a way to beat a Lesser Daemon without raising a fuss
  • Coming up with Megiddo after seeing Disintegration used once
  • Learning Predictive Simulation through Raphael by watching Hinata use it once
  • Cover the greatest "elemental weakness" of a monster by absorbing one Melt Slash, making any Absolute Defense impervious to Spirit Particle attacks and by extention to most Holy-magic attacks that are usually very effective against monsters and are basically the "anti-magicule".
Yea that's quite a lot, if I say so myself. Escpacially since fights aren't really the "main focus" of the story.
Click to expand...
Some of the things you quote is likely on Reactive Evolution tho like the Magic Aura
 
Yeah I mean there are some things you said that fit the examples of Reactive Evolution like Rimuru suddenly resisting Gazel's Aur and Learning Magic Aura during the lesser daemon fight. Those example are during combat and that's all in Rimuru's First Key
 
Neo, I don't Rimuru learning from Power Mimicry or Absorbtion as valid case for Accelerated Development. For example, he learned Icicle lance after eating and other abilities from Predation.


The last two point related to his second key, my point was only about his first key. The other things I think I see your points; I do feel though his Accelerated Development's feats are more associated with great sage rather than him just learning from standard battle. Also, I was replying to case in the OP where the case of getting stronger looks associated with physical strength rather than others things like skills.
 
Regarding EE, Sirzech Lucifer form DXD have EE from this, Can disintegrate the body, soul, and consciousness of those he hits with the Power of Destruction to nothingness, We know That mind and conciousness in slime is part of astral body so Disintegration literaly makes body soul and conciousness vanish without trace i think thats enough evidence for EE.
 
Since when is consciousness part of the astral body? The astral body is the vessel for the soul.

Also what's again stated is it makes cells and souls vanish. Nothing is said about reducing a person to nothingness, even if the soul and cells are gone, atoms or subatomic particles could still exist.
 
1571017204299
Er..what? Pretty sure thinking is part of conciousness, Also isnt Disintegration is control particles which work on molecular IIRC?
 
Control particles is a skill exclusive to Rimuru so idk where you're going with that, also control particles is a skill that creates heat or eletricity by controlling the paths of other molecules in the air by working the magicules in the surroundings.

Disintegration is holy magic, and even if it was created by control particles doesn't mean it itself destroys molecules, also i think Neo mentioned before that the manga's explanations for the parts of the body had issues so i am taking what you posted above with a grain of salt.

Also don't you think it's contradictory that perfect memories is a skill which makes mind control useless against the user due to their memories being stored in the astral body, if the mind already existed within the astral body?
 
Eh? Thinking is in astral body but memories it outside it according to explanation above, Al yeah my mistake its Spirit particles not control particles.
 
You just proved my point, if thinking is in the astral body, which you are saying also means the mind is also there, mind haxing someone means affecting the astral body, why couldn't Clayman do the same against Shion?

Why does her memories being stored there make mind control impossible?, When the mind is also there by your interpretation

The only explanation is that the mind itself is elsewhere.
 
To me it seems like the mind itself is located in the brain due to the explanation we get about perfect memory:

ÒÇîGogogogogo. You should be happy, this is the ultimate curse spell that can even control Demon Lords! It is quite the waste to use it against Majin like you, but it doesn't matter. I'll have to reorganize the Five Fingers anyway. Come be my subordinate and be of use to me.ÒÇì
He is completely mistaken judging by his words.

How pathetic, Clayman.

Shion is not rendered unable to move, it's simply that she doesn't want to move.

Clayman has boasted this skill to the roof yet it has had no effect. But perhaps you guys (readers) don't know why that's the case either. Shion has obtained the skill ÒÇîPerfect MemoryÒÇì that can store her memory in her astral body——In simpler terms, it is a special skill that can save memory even when the brain is damaged.

As long as one retains his conscious soul and memory, he can be revived even when his body is completely damaged. She has become a special species. It won't be too much to call her a semi-spiritual life form.

In other words, she can think with her soul.

That means she has complete immunity against all mind control effects.
~ Volume 6, Chapter 5​
 
Actually i got quotes that explain all this.

Parts of the body:

As the Great Sage explained, there were three types of topological forms in the world: astral bodies, the weakest form that surrounds the soul; spiritual bodies, which can form a base upon which to build one's internal force; and material bodies, those directly connected with this world. The human body is the combination of all three forms.
A high-level elemental is nothing more than a mass of energy that gains sentience. In other words, it uses the "heart" protected by its astral body to control its spiritual one, you could say. This also applied to draconic races like Veldora, but in his case, he not only had a spiritual body, but he had a material one made from matter in the local area that he could freely control. High-level elementals didn't have that kind of power, so when they left the spiritual world, their energy would disperse, and they would disappear. This is the fate that awaited any type of spirit-based life-form in the physical world, including angels and demons. To keep their energy from fading away, they must either find a physical receptacle to form a pact with or a way to physically incarnate themselves. That, in essence, was what made the material body so important in this world.
~ Volume 4, Chapter 7​
Soul:

A soul is a consciousness, by definition, but that alone didn't provide the consciousness any way to express itself. It still needed an astral body to operate upon and begin the thought process—but that wasn't enough, either, since any thoughts produced would just dissipate into the wind. That's where the spiritual body came in, to record and keep those thoughts captive. Even that was still a virtual memory, though, not any kind of permanent storage—and so we come to the material body.
If one had enough mental fortitude, they could recover all their memories even if their brain was permanently damaged. The fact that you saw spiritual life-forms among the monsters was proof enough of that. But if the spirit is damaged, that likely wounds the astral body deeply, even if the brain is left intact. If that wound reaches the soul, resurrection is no longer possible.
~ Volume 5, Chapter 3​
 
@GLHF22
You linked the outdated version of the manga earlier. If you check it on ******** you'll see Jesterly's version which is much more on-point.

Though based on what I checked the "Spirit Particles" really are "Particles" this time, unlike the case of "Control Particles" which was a mistranslation and was actually just "Molecular Manipulation". Though Molecular Manipulation is already outdated ever since Charybdis anyway, since Rimuru combined it with Magic Interference resulting in Control Magic / Magic Manipulation which controls on atomic level since magicules are atoms as I have explained many times in the past.

Spirit Particles are actually refering to sub-atomic stuff based on context though. The Kanji for Disintegration is Ú£èÕ¡ÉÕ┤®Õúè Spirit Particle Decay which seems to be a fantasy version of either õ©¡µÇºÕ¡ÉÕ┤®Õúè Neutron Decay or þ▓ÆÕ¡ÉÕ┤®Õúè Particle Decay based on Jisho but in both cases it's refering to particles, i.e. PARTS of atoms or other kind of sub-atomic particles. This is further proven by GLHF22's Melt Slash scan that shows being able to cut through sub-atomic particles.
 
Before we conclude this thread, I need some input in this;

  • Should we put Reactive Evolution in Rimuru's First Key instead based on this evidences:
    • Learning how to break out of aura suppression at the first try in a way others deem to nigh-impossible (against Gazel Dwargo)
    • Learning Magic Aura just by being struck by inspiration while looking to find a way to beat a Lesser Daemon without raising a fuss
All of them are during in-combat and Rimuru has shown cases of how he adapts and changed the situation in responding to threats. Take note that those 2 examples are LN exclusives since those scenes weren't in the WN.
 
Oh yeah plus he learned Modelwill too during the fight against the Orc Disaster which shocked Hakurou. He learned Modelwill Art from just a little inspiration from watching Gelmud use his magic balls. That's some Garou level Reactive Evolution.

I pointed my right hand at Gelmud, who was still in pain and desperately attempting to heal himself. Will this work? When I made that ball, I didn't take any water out from my stomach for it—I just rolled it out from my aura. Maybe if I tried that with magicules instead… There we go. I now had a fist-size piece of spirit above my right hand. So far, so good.
Now, how to fire this at him… Slowly, I pushed it forward, as if executing a breath-type attack. I felt something push lightly against my palm, and then the ball of spirit shot forward as fast as a Water Blade. Guess it worked. Hakuro's eyes burst wide open. "He's learned Modelwill," I could hear him whisper. "Still unrefined, though." So now I had my own magical bolts. We'll just ignore the second thing he said for now. Once I learned something, things would fall into place pretty quickly. I was sure I could burn more magic to boost its strength, too.
~ Light Novel Volume 2​
 
Also another evidence for Reactive Evolution in first key Rimuru.

That just left Hakuro—standing in front of me even now, wooden practice sword in hand. He was a master of the sword; there was no doubting that. You underestimated him at your own peril. He was elderly, but his spirit was like nothing else.
Having this new human form and everything, I thought I'd learn some sword skills of my own. This was, to say the least, extremely optimistic, as was the prospect of learning new Arts for myself anytime soon. My last experience with that sort of thing was back in middle-school phys ed, and I'd never even held a sword before. No way it'd be that easy. I figured I'd be a quick study, what with Hasten Thought and all that, but Hakuro quickly taught me the error of my ways. He had that, too, it turned out, so I had no advantage at all from the get-go. The end result? I basically stood there and let this ogre mage beat me up for an hour or so. The ease with which I had been learning skills had probably spoiled me. Unlike those, Arts were earned strictly through training and concerted effort. It was never going to be quite that easy for me. And while magic seemed a bit like Arts, they essentially ran on two different engines. Yeesh. Icicle Lance came to me just like that, too, when I absorbed it. No point complaining, though. I might be able to do the same with Arts as well, but it looked tricky. There would be no shortcuts with this—I'd just have to give up and admit that it'd take constant, extensive practice. Oops. Now was no time for mulling over this. I had my own practice sword in hand. Manifesting as an adult slowed down my reaction time, which meant I was in child form so I could devote my all to this. Launching Magic Sense, I honed my consciousness on the world around me. Sense Heat Source and Keen Smell were also activated.

Question. Enhance Ultrasonic Wave to evolve the extra skill Sense Soundwave?

Yes

No

Ah. Good job, Sage. Just what I was hoping to hear. I thought "yes" to myself, and with that, I opened up a treasure trove of information—the movements, temperature, smell, sound, and everything else related to the magicules surrounding us. Now there was nothing that could escape my senses. That gave me an extra jab of confidence as I took on Hakuro, his sword casually lifted up to his chest. The next thing I felt was a dull blow to the crown of my head. It couldn't have been a cleaner strike—no pain, no damage. He didn't put any force into it at all. Still, though… That was skill, not speed. We were on completely different levels. "What was that?" "Hoh-hoh-hoh! I call that Haze," he explained with a smile. "It is part of my Formhide skill set, and the more magic I invest, the more I can dilute the presence I project. I believe you have the ability to obtain it for yourself, too, Sir Rimuru." It didn't sound very likely. It apparently took him a good century or so to learn, so I didn't like my chances that much. "Yeah, I… I'd sure like to, sometime." Hakuro nodded approvingly. It hurt my feelings a little, but I couldn't do much about it. Arts weren't skills, after all. They took time. And whatever advantage I had in skills—and I had a big one, I was sure—it was nothing compared to what Hakuro could do.
~ Light Novel Volume 2​
 
So Rimuru learned in 2 or so years what took Hakurou a century... I mean Rimuru used Formhide to hide himself from Hinata, didn't he? Which means he learned it well enough to apply it in practise.
 
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