Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 20

[mal]

that mean VoTW can get tier 2b-2A because it keep deleting timelines no?

 

[Zegion]

Hey can anyone tell me why does turn null is not considered as nep?



And also wn diablo should get conceptual manipulation because of nihility right?(correct me if I am wrong)

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

I got the Official Translation of Volume 12 and found this

These demons boasted incredible powers, wholly exempt from the concept of death. It wasn’t impossible to eradicate them at the root, but it would require careful, intricate preparations—but instead of paying all those sacrifices, it was best to negotiate and win them over to your side. That, Ludora and Velgrynd believed, was the most advisable move to make against Guy in this game.
If Velgrynd made it a fight, she could destroy Blanc, but the damage to the region would be unimaginable. It wasn’t a realistic option, they concluded.

Can Primordial Demons have Immortality Type 5?

 

[Metalballrun]

Wasn't Velgrynd talking about the many worlds Veldanava had created? Surely it refers to the universe.

Yes they refer to universes.

It was also strange when Velgrynd was talking about the universe and suddenly she was talking about a planet that the True Dragons could destroy.

Like I said before, this is because the word for planet and universe/world is often interchangeable, in more ways than one.
Don't you find it strange that whenever Velgrynd travels from one universe to another, she seemingly only finds one planet each for most of them, and these planets' names are used to represent that universe/world? Like Earth.
It's the same thing here. It's a common trope not just in Japanese novels but most stories that employs the multiverse cosmology but never ventures outside 1 planet for the most part.

Not necessarily, the planet and star stuff are all pretty casual. Besides the statement from Velgrynd is definitely NOT referring to planets but universes or parallel worlds.

Casual planet busting and star busting are far from proofs of universe-busting. There's an unimaginably large gap between those tiers.
Velgrynd is talking about parallel worlds, but most of the destruction feats refer to planetary destruction (even if it's casual).

If we're bringing up takes from translators, from what I remember, most of them are neutral (since they don't really care), but leaning more on planetary destruction, like Grey/Neo IIRC. I could be wrong but the raw text from the world destruction is pretty similar to the 5-B justifications for Gluttony anyways.

as they have several others 5-B statements

Doesn't the existence of several 5-B/4-C statements supports the fact that they are on that level, though?

I'd note that 5-B is just a tentative tier, they could be far higher than that. Especially with how you interpret Gravity Collapse.

then how a ''True Dragon at full power can destroy a weak world'' is only about planet?

It's in reference to how semi-material/semi-spiritual/magical worlds are protected and enriched by magic. You can interpret that the worlds like the foundation world are more durable, since magic rocks apparently are 100x more durable than normal rocks or something. Or you can interpret it as something else. Here's an example of a statement from Velgrynd:

Spoiler: V17

Gensei and Kondou are roughly equal. However, his strength was far less powerful than Kondou’s was when they first met.

Most of the humans in the material world die from the dense concentrations of magical elements once they cross the world. But a few were reborn by remodeling, transforming their bodies into powerful beings.

These were the ‘otherworlders’ of Velgrynd’s homeland.

That’s right, I’ve forgotten. This world is very low in magic. That’s why it’s harder to cast a spell, and the level physical strengthening is low. Their physical strength is innate, so it’s rather amazing that they can even be this powerful.

And so Velgrynd made her decision, remembering the shock she felt in her fingertips.

Back home, it was as powerful as a rank A. She was impressed by what he can do with a rare-grade weapon.

Now then, you can imagine the strength of the enemy.

I guess the demon class is about B rank to A-minus rank. The Mythical/Dragon rank is about A-
minus rank. If so, the demon must be a “phantom-race”.

The phantom-race is an Aggressor tribe, a half-mental life form. In the material world, it could only be active for a short time without incarnation. Particularly in this world where magic is scarce, its energy efficiency would have been too low if it had not possessed a human.

Therefore, if it uses its true strength, its human body would not be able to withstand it.

He’s getting weaker. Well, this world isn’t protected by magical elements, so if you use too much power, it might destroy it. If they’re destroying it, or even invading it, do they control its power? That’s probably why Kondou’s current strength was so important in a fight.

If the phantom-race is serious, then the inhabitants of this world don’t stand a chance. Velgrynd concluded and smiled at her good fortune to be here now.

Point is, material worlds like Satoru's Earth or Kondou's EARTH that has little magic, aren't protected by magic, therefore can easily be blown away by True Dragons unleashing their full power.

Can Primordial Demons have Immortality Type 5?

It's possible, but just that one statement isn't enough, I think. The whole thing is too vague.

Primordial Demons' immortality is pretty similar to the WN, I'm not sure if they have Type 5. Being "above the concept of death" isn't literal IMO, this is just in reference to them having infinite lifespans as spiritual lifeforms and resurrecting/regenerating when their souls are destroyed. Which effectively makes them "above conventional life or death", but I'm not sure what the Immortality page is really trying to say.

It's better to ask somebody more familiar with the Immortality standards when the time comes that you want that approved and added.

 

[Metalballrun]

In any case, we don't really have any profiles about these characters yet, and it seems to be the general consensus to wait for the officials or the fan translations before making them. Which is gonna be around the next 2-3 years, so we shouldn't worry about it too much for now.

I would rather have people worry about the scaling of the Demon Lord Seeds and Enlightened individuals that we actually have profiles for. Since they should be upgraded to 6-B.

I'd also note that the idea of having Low 2-C True Dragons means several characters in the series would be Low 2-C, like most Primordial Demons and Rimuru's top subordinates like Benimaru through scaling. So yeah, that is another rather headache of a scaling in the event that that happens.

 

[Worthless]

Spoiler: V17

Gensei and Kondou are roughly equal. However, his strength was far less powerful than Kondou’s was when they first met.

Most of the humans in the material world die from the dense concentrations of magical elements once they cross the world. But a few were reborn by remodeling, transforming their bodies into powerful beings.

These were the ‘otherworlders’ of Velgrynd’s homeland.

That’s right, I’ve forgotten. This world is very low in magic. That’s why it’s harder to cast a spell, and the level physical strengthening is low. Their physical strength is innate, so it’s rather amazing that they can even be this powerful.

And so Velgrynd made her decision, remembering the shock she felt in her fingertips.

Back home, it was as powerful as a rank A. She was impressed by what he can do with a rare-grade weapon.

Now then, you can imagine the strength of the enemy.

I guess the demon class is about B rank to A-minus rank. The Mythical/Dragon rank is about A-
minus rank. If so, the demon must be a “phantom-race”.

The phantom-race is an Aggressor tribe, a half-mental life form. In the material world, it could only be active for a short time without incarnation. Particularly in this world where magic is scarce, its energy efficiency would have been too low if it had not possessed a human.

Therefore, if it uses its true strength, its human body would not be able to withstand it.

He’s getting weaker. Well, this world isn’t protected by magical elements, so if you use too much power, it might destroy it. If they’re destroying it, or even invading it, do they control its power? That’s probably why Kondou’s current strength was so important in a fight.

If the phantom-race is serious, then the inhabitants of this world don’t stand a chance. Velgrynd concluded and smiled at her good fortune to be here now.

This remind me of solo leveling verse lol

 

[Metalballrun]

This remind me of solo leveling verse lol

Yes the general idea is kinda similar.

I'm still having trouble downscaling the characters, Existence Points are quite troublesome among other things.

 

[Community_Gamer]

I agree that its s huge gap. A lot of those feats were thousands of years ago. And everyone's gotten much stronger since. But I never argue Tensura characters above Star universal.

Grey is cool but he doesn't translate from the LN. I don't believe Neo does either. Which is fine. There's plenty of valid arguments for universal I just don't care to make them.

Casual planet busting and star busting are far from proofs of universe-busting. There's an unimaginably large gap between those tiers.
Velgrynd is talking about parallel worlds, but most of the destruction feats refer to planetary destruction (even if it's casual).

If we're bringing up takes from translators, from what I remember, most of them are neutral (since they don't really care), but leaning more on planetary destruction, like Grey/Neo IIRC. I could be wrong but the raw text from the world destruction is pretty similar to the 5-B justifications for Gluttony anyways.

 

[Community_Gamer]

In any case, we don't really have any profiles about these characters yet, and it seems to be the general consensus to wait for the officials or the fan translations before making them. Which is gonna be around the next 2-3 years, so we shouldn't worry about it too much for now.

I would rather have people worry about the scaling of the Demon Lord Seeds and Enlightened individuals that we actually have profiles for. Since they should be upgraded to 6-B.

I'd also note that the idea of having Low 2-C True Dragons means several characters in the series would be Low 2-C, like most Primordial Demons and Rimuru's top subordinates like Benimaru through scaling. So yeah, that is another rather headache of a scaling in the event that that happens.

Are you using YenPress terms?

 

[Metalballrun]

Are you using YenPress terms?

I alternate with both, but recently I've been preferring using certain YP terms that I deem to be better than the fan translations, especially with V6/7. IE Enlightened is better than Sage IMO since it's distinct and separates itself from the Skills with Sage in them.

 

[Nxdia00]

I think Enlightened already used in LN FanTL too along with Hero and Champion instead of Chosen Hero and Hero. iirc

 

[Metalballrun]

This is the AP scaling I made so far. I still feel that there's still a lot of things to be improved and fixed, so it's not gonna be in a CRT soon unfortunately.

Spoiler: New AP

765 Teratons, 6-A​

Rimuru Tempest (Demon Slime): Continent level (Comparable to Daemon Lord Carrera, who can create a Gravity Collapse that can destroy the Great Jura Forest. Should be comparable to Leon Cromwell, Comparable to Leon Cromwell, whose fight against the Yellow Primordial would result to the destruction of El Dorado, a continent larger than Australia, as a consequence, and is capable of destroying El Dorado by himself. As an Awakened Demon Lord, should be superior to the Cherub Pulcinella, who can destroy the continent of Atlantis within a fraction of a second)

Ruminas Valentine: Continent level (Comparable to other Awakened Demon Lords like Rimuru Tempest and Leon Cromwell, whose fight against the Yellow Primordial would result to the destruction of El Dorado, a continent larger than Australia. As an Awakened Demon Lord, should be superior to Pulcinella, who can destroy the continent of Atlantis within a fraction of a second)

Diablo (Demon Peer): Continent level (Should be comparable to Demon Slime Rimuru, and is Rimuru's strongest subordinate, taking half of Rimuru's magicules upon being named. As a fellow Daemon Lord, should be comparable to Carrera, who can create a Gravity Collapse that can destroy the Great Jura Forest. In terms of magic techniques and physical ability, the difference between Diablo and Sare is compared to the difference between an adult and an infant)

Hinata Sakaguchi (Complete Saint): Continent level (Capable of harming and parrying sword strikes with Demon Slime Rimuru. Physically stronger than old Granbell Rosso)

Granbell Rosso (Young): Continent level (Became far stronger after absorbing Maria's and Razul's energy, which increased his magicules, restored his youth, and gained him an Ultimate Skill, allowing him to fight equally against Ruminas Valentine. Overwhelmed Hinata Sakaguchi)

Razul: Continent level (Fought Oni Shion and a restrained Diablo at the same time, and has more magicule content than both of them combined. Was overwhelming a team of Shion and Ranga as he continued to get stronger as the fight went on. Stated to be stronger than old Granbell Rosso)

Yuuki Kagurazaka (Saint): Continent level (Yuuki remodeled his body to evolve from a human to a Sage, and then to a fully evolved Saint equal to a spiritual lifeform, surpassing Hinata Sakaguchi's Saint form. If he were to convert all his energy into magicules, he could rival Leon and Ruminas)

229.5 Teratons, High 6-B (Less, Equal to, or Greater than)​

Louis Valentin (Roy Absorbed): Large Country level (Several times stronger after absorbing Roy's powers, regaining his original power prior to being split in two by Ruminas) Note: Several is "three or more", so we're under the assumption that Louis is thrice as strong as before

Laplace: At least Large Country level (Comparable to Louis Valentin. Easily killed a weakened Roy Valentin), likely far higher at full power (Implied to be stronger than Roy even if the Roy was at full strength, and implied to be capable of defeating Louis if he was to go all out. Laplace's previous identity is the True Hero Sarion Grimwald, and while he lost his power as a hero, much of his combat prowess remains)

Clayman: Large Country level (Became significantly stronger with his incomplete Demon Lord Awakening, causing his Existence Value to double. His drastic increase in power caused Carrion to worry, and Frey claims she would be incapable of defeating him)

Granbell Rosso (Old): At least Large Country level (Stated by Ruminas to be stronger than the former Demon Lords, which include Kagali, Roy, Carrion, Frey, and Clayman. Despite being physically weaker than Hinata Sakaguchi, he was able to fight her through sheer skill and experience)

Hinata Sakaguchi (Incomplete Saint): Large Country level (Overwhelmed a weakened Rimuru Tempest, who believed he would have lost nine of out ten times even if he was at full strength. Veldora believes she can singlehandedly defeat Charybdis. An Enlightened Hinata was able to end a battle against Roy and Louis Valentin in mutual destruction. A Saint has a baseline Existence Value of over one million)

76.5 Teratons, 6-B (Equal to or Greater than)​

Rimuru Tempest (Slime Key, Volume 4/5): Country level+ (Has ten times less magicules prior to his Demon Lord awakening. As a Special A, Calamity Class monster, Rimuru harmed and consumed Ifrit and Orc Disaster Geld, absorbing their powers, and then later consumed the core of Charybdis, becoming stronger each time until he reached Disaster Class S. Became far stronger after training under Milim Nava, with Milim stating that he's qualified to declare himself a Demon Lord)

Sare (Sage): Country level+ (Stated to have nearly killed Roy Valentin. Second only to Hinata among the Ten Great Saints, and is the closest to becoming a real Saint)

Carrion (Pre-Awakening): Country level+ (Should be comparable to Rimuru Tempest, who believed Carrion was stronger prior to Rimuru's training under Milim Nava. Rimuru comments that his aura feels stronger than Charybdis), likely Large Country level with Royal Beast (His energy and possibly his physical abilities increases threefold in this form. His Beast Roar was able to somewhat numb Milim Nava's hand)

Charys: Country level+ (As a flame lord and named by Veldora, has surpassed Carrion and Frey in terms of magicules)

Roy Valentin: Country level+ (Observed by Rimuru to have a superior aura to base Carrion)

Charybdis:

• Attack Potency: Country level+ (Rimuru stated that the Tempest Scales violently reshaped a nearby forest, and a direct hit from them would've turned anyone in the Tempest forces into mincemeat, making Charybdis superior to Rimuru and the Kijins during the events of Volume 3)
• Durability: Country level+ (Can take the force of its own blows when using Body Slam), its large size, regeneration, and Magic Interference make it difficult to kill (The combined forces of Tempest and Dwargon's elite Pegasus Knights only dealt 30% damage to it in 10 hours of battle)

Benimaru (Oni): Country level+ (One-shot an incomplete Charybdis. Rimuru states that Benimaru holds power beyond the Demon Lord Seed, and Alvis comments that Benimaru is on the same level as Carrion), higher with Magic Flame Transformation (In this state, his strength, stamina and psyche are greatly enhance, acquiring properties of a spiritual lifeform)

Shion (Oni): Country level+ (Overwhelmed Seed Clayman. Was able to competently fight against Razul. Stomped Dagruel's three sons, who individually have magicules comparable to Seed Clayman), higher with Battle God (In this state, her strength, stamina and psyche are greatly enhance, acquiring properties of a spiritual lifeform. Razul was bewildered and believed his exoskeleton will be damaged by Shion's attack)

Ranga (Post Harvest Festival):

• Attack Potency: Country level+ (Should be comparable to Shion, whom he teamed up with to fight against Razul, the latter feeling the need to dodge Ranga's attacks)
• Durability: Country level+ (Was able to survive attacks from Razul, although was gravely injure)

Yuuki Kagurazaka (Human): Country level+ (Somewhat comparable to Oni Shion), likely Continent level with Greed Flare (Capable of matching blows with Demon Lord Rimuru and injured his arm, although Anti-Skill has nullified Rimuru's defenses)

<76.5 Teratons, 6-B (Less than)​

Treyni (Dryad Doll): Country level+ (Her magicule count doubled, making her equal to Disaster Rank S, but is still weaker than Carrion. Superior to Souei and Geld), likely Continent level with Wind Spirit King

Souei (Oni): Country level+ (Superior to Glenda Adley, who can fight evenly and kill some of his clones)

Geld (Post Harvest Festival): Country level+ (Comparable to Oni Souei. Was able to fight base Carrion albeit both were holding back)

Glenda Adley: Country level+ (Capable of fighting one of Oni Souei's clones evenly and killing him, and manages to kill two more before ultimately being defeated, although Souei's clones are weaker than the real one in an unknown margin. As an Enlightened and a member of the Ten Great Saints, should be comparable to Demon Lord Breeds like Clayman)

Shizue Izawa:

• Attack Potency: Unknown (Weaker than before, but should still retain much of her combat ability), likely Country level+ with Ifrit (Uniting with Ifrit, Shizue believes she could defeat Orthos, a named Arch Demon. Shizue one-shot a Fire Dragon, despite it being at least on the same level as a Sky Dragon on top of having flame resistance) | Country level+ (Shizue can completely control Ifrit and make his power her own. According to Hinata, Shizue is far stronger than Sage of Fire Azu, one of the Seven Celestial Sages who can borrow power from a Fire Spirit King. Shizue is also stronger than Gerald of Fire, one of the Ten Great Saints, according to Fuze)
• Durability: Unknown, likely Country level+ with Ifrit, Unknown with Anti-Magic Mask (The Anti-Magic mask is assumed to be a subject of a temporal paradox, cycling between its users through countless time-loops with an unknown origin. It is described to have a "time compression of infinity", an item that "surpasses time", and that "through countless eons it had remained the same, a universal constant". Diablo states that the endless loop set into motion comes back to Rimuru Tempest, its genesis and destruction, implying that the mask cannot be destroyed until it is possessed by Rimuru) | Country level+, possibly Unknown with Anti-Magic Mask

21.86 Teratons, 6-B (Less than, equal to, more than)​

Treyni (Dryad): Country level (Around two times weaker than her Dryad Humanoid Fairy form. Superior to the Kijins), likely Large Country level with Sylphide (Can harm Laplace and Charybdis)

Reynald Jesta: Country level, likely Country level+ (

Beretta (Arch Doll): Country level (Two times stronger than the Elemental Colossus, which is stronger than the Sky Dragon which was on Ifrit's level before Veldora's training)

Orc Disaster Geld: Country level (Comparable to Slime Rimuru and superior to the Kijins during the events of Volume 2. Should be stronger than the likes of a Sky Dragon, who is described to be capable of toppling a small country in seconds)

Hakurou (Kijin): Country level (Despite having lower energy, was described by Veldora to be potentially stronger than Pre-Orc Lord fight Rimuru and the strongest of the Kijins in combat ability. Was able to bisect and decapitate Orc Disaster Geld. Became stronger after training under Milim Nava)

Benimaru (Kijin): Country level (Superior to Hakurou. Became stronger after training under Milim Nava, with Rimuru stating that he can give Treyni a run for her money)

Shion (Kijin): Country level (Became stronger after training under Milim Nava, and described by Souei as second only to Benimaru in strength)

Souei (Kijin): Country level (Was able to restrain Orc Disaster Geld. Became stronger after training under Milim Nava, with Rimuru stating that he can give Treyni a run for her money)

10.93 Teratons, 6-B (Less than, equal to, more than)​

Ifrit: Country level (Has over half the magicules of Orc Disaster Geld. Comparable to the Sky Dragon who is described to be capable of toppling a small country in seconds)

 

[Worthless]

Charybdis 6-B? Awesome.

 

[DebatingIsMyGoal]

Just a thought, since LN Ultimate Skill users understand and are released from the laws of the world and since causality is a law of the world shouldn't Ultimate Skill users get a least Acausality type 4(possibly type 5) like the WN?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

It'd be Type 4

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Just a thought, since LN Ultimate Skill users understand and are released from the laws of the world and since causality is a law of the world shouldn't Ultimate Skill users get a least Acausality type 4(possibly type 5) like the WN?

Is there such a statement in LN? All I know is Velgrynd who is outside the laws of the world

 

[Nxdia00]

I think Yuuki should have resistance to Information Analysis(?) or smh like that? Based on how Raphael can't directly interfere with Yuuki and just deduce thing after it really shown in the fight between Rimuru and Yuuki.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Agree with you. And tbh, it's more of a "True Dragon destroying the world with just fully released Aura" kind of thing in the raw iirc.

can u give me the screenshot of the raw pls?

 

[Nxdia00]

can u give me the screenshot of the raw pls?

〝竜種〟が全力解放すれば吹き飛ぶような弱小世界もあれば、覚醒魔王に匹敵するほどの天使や悪魔が、恒常的に争いを繰り広げている荒廃した世界もあった。

 

[Bernkastelll]

〝竜種〟が全力解放すれば吹き飛ぶような弱小世界もあれば、覚醒魔王に匹敵するほどの天使や悪魔が、恒常的に争いを繰り広げている荒廃した世界もあった。

hmm, i tried to translate, and both of translations that I tried, resulted in something like ''weak worlds'', sad.

 

[Community_Gamer]

hmm, i tried to translate, and both of translations that I tried, resulted in something like ''weak worlds'', sad.

Yes but that's fine it doesn't negate anything

 

[Community_Gamer]

This is the AP scaling I made so far. I still feel that there's still a lot of things to be improved and fixed, so it's not gonna be in a CRT soon unfortunately.

Spoiler: New AP

765 Teratons, 6-A​

Rimuru Tempest (Demon Slime): Continent level (Comparable to Daemon Lord Carrera, who can create a Gravity Collapse that can destroy the Great Jura Forest. Should be comparable to Leon Cromwell, Comparable to Leon Cromwell, whose fight against the Yellow Primordial would result to the destruction of El Dorado, a continent larger than Australia, as a consequence, and is capable of destroying El Dorado by himself. As an Awakened Demon Lord, should be superior to the Cherub Pulcinella, who can destroy the continent of Atlantis within a fraction of a second)

Ruminas Valentine: Continent level (Comparable to other Awakened Demon Lords like Rimuru Tempest and Leon Cromwell, whose fight against the Yellow Primordial would result to the destruction of El Dorado, a continent larger than Australia. As an Awakened Demon Lord, should be superior to Pulcinella, who can destroy the continent of Atlantis within a fraction of a second)

Diablo (Demon Peer): Continent level (Should be comparable to Demon Slime Rimuru, and is Rimuru's strongest subordinate, taking half of Rimuru's magicules upon being named. As a fellow Daemon Lord, should be comparable to Carrera, who can create a Gravity Collapse that can destroy the Great Jura Forest. In terms of magic techniques and physical ability, the difference between Diablo and Sare is compared to the difference between an adult and an infant)

Hinata Sakaguchi (Complete Saint): Continent level (Capable of harming and parrying sword strikes with Demon Slime Rimuru. Physically stronger than old Granbell Rosso)

Granbell Rosso (Young): Continent level (Became far stronger after absorbing Maria's and Razul's energy, which increased his magicules, restored his youth, and gained him an Ultimate Skill, allowing him to fight equally against Ruminas Valentine. Overwhelmed Hinata Sakaguchi)

Razul: Continent level (Fought Oni Shion and a restrained Diablo at the same time, and has more magicule content than both of them combined. Was overwhelming a team of Shion and Ranga as he continued to get stronger as the fight went on. Stated to be stronger than old Granbell Rosso)

Yuuki Kagurazaka (Saint): Continent level (Yuuki remodeled his body to evolve from a human to a Sage, and then to a fully evolved Saint equal to a spiritual lifeform, surpassing Hinata Sakaguchi's Saint form. If he were to convert all his energy into magicules, he could rival Leon and Ruminas)

229.5 Teratons, High 6-B (Less, Equal to, or Greater than)​

Louis Valentin (Roy Absorbed): Large Country level (Several times stronger after absorbing Roy's powers, regaining his original power prior to being split in two by Ruminas) Note: Several is "three or more", so we're under the assumption that Louis is thrice as strong as before

Laplace: At least Large Country level (Comparable to Louis Valentin. Easily killed a weakened Roy Valentin), likely far higher at full power (Implied to be stronger than Roy even if the Roy was at full strength, and implied to be capable of defeating Louis if he was to go all out. Laplace's previous identity is the True Hero Sarion Grimwald, and while he lost his power as a hero, much of his combat prowess remains)

Clayman: Large Country level (Became significantly stronger with his incomplete Demon Lord Awakening, causing his Existence Value to double. His drastic increase in power caused Carrion to worry, and Frey claims she would be incapable of defeating him)

Granbell Rosso (Old): At least Large Country level (Stated by Ruminas to be stronger than the former Demon Lords, which include Kagali, Roy, Carrion, Frey, and Clayman. Despite being physically weaker than Hinata Sakaguchi, he was able to fight her through sheer skill and experience)

Hinata Sakaguchi (Incomplete Saint): Large Country level (Overwhelmed a weakened Rimuru Tempest, who believed he would have lost nine of out ten times even if he was at full strength. Veldora believes she can singlehandedly defeat Charybdis. An Enlightened Hinata was able to end a battle against Roy and Louis Valentin in mutual destruction. A Saint has a baseline Existence Value of over one million)

76.5 Teratons, 6-B (Equal to or Greater than)​

Rimuru Tempest (Slime Key, Volume 4/5): Country level+ (Has ten times less magicules prior to his Demon Lord awakening. As a Special A, Calamity Class monster, Rimuru harmed and consumed Ifrit and Orc Disaster Geld, absorbing their powers, and then later consumed the core of Charybdis, becoming stronger each time until he reached Disaster Class S. Became far stronger after training under Milim Nava, with Milim stating that he's qualified to declare himself a Demon Lord)

Sare (Sage): Country level+ (Stated to have nearly killed Roy Valentin. Second only to Hinata among the Ten Great Saints, and is the closest to becoming a real Saint)

Carrion (Pre-Awakening): Country level+ (Should be comparable to Rimuru Tempest, who believed Carrion was stronger prior to Rimuru's training under Milim Nava. Rimuru comments that his aura feels stronger than Charybdis), likely Large Country level with Royal Beast (His energy and possibly his physical abilities increases threefold in this form. His Beast Roar was able to somewhat numb Milim Nava's hand)

Charys: Country level+ (As a flame lord and named by Veldora, has surpassed Carrion and Frey in terms of magicules)

Roy Valentin: Country level+ (Observed by Rimuru to have a superior aura to base Carrion)

Charybdis:

• Attack Potency: Country level+ (Rimuru stated that the Tempest Scales violently reshaped a nearby forest, and a direct hit from them would've turned anyone in the Tempest forces into mincemeat, making Charybdis superior to Rimuru and the Kijins during the events of Volume 3)
• Durability: Country level+ (Can take the force of its own blows when using Body Slam), its large size, regeneration, and Magic Interference make it difficult to kill (The combined forces of Tempest and Dwargon's elite Pegasus Knights only dealt 30% damage to it in 10 hours of battle)

Benimaru (Oni): Country level+ (One-shot an incomplete Charybdis. Rimuru states that Benimaru holds power beyond the Demon Lord Seed, and Alvis comments that Benimaru is on the same level as Carrion), higher with Magic Flame Transformation (In this state, his strength, stamina and psyche are greatly enhance, acquiring properties of a spiritual lifeform)

Shion (Oni): Country level+ (Overwhelmed Seed Clayman. Was able to competently fight against Razul. Stomped Dagruel's three sons, who individually have magicules comparable to Seed Clayman), higher with Battle God (In this state, her strength, stamina and psyche are greatly enhance, acquiring properties of a spiritual lifeform. Razul was bewildered and believed his exoskeleton will be damaged by Shion's attack)

Ranga (Post Harvest Festival):

• Attack Potency: Country level+ (Should be comparable to Shion, whom he teamed up with to fight against Razul, the latter feeling the need to dodge Ranga's attacks)
• Durability: Country level+ (Was able to survive attacks from Razul, although was gravely injure)

Yuuki Kagurazaka (Human): Country level+ (Somewhat comparable to Oni Shion), likely Continent level with Greed Flare (Capable of matching blows with Demon Lord Rimuru and injured his arm, although Anti-Skill has nullified Rimuru's defenses)

<76.5 Teratons, 6-B (Less than)​

Treyni (Dryad Doll): Country level+ (Her magicule count doubled, making her equal to Disaster Rank S, but is still weaker than Carrion. Superior to Souei and Geld), likely Continent level with Wind Spirit King

Souei (Oni): Country level+ (Superior to Glenda Adley, who can fight evenly and kill some of his clones)

Geld (Post Harvest Festival): Country level+ (Comparable to Oni Souei. Was able to fight base Carrion albeit both were holding back)

Glenda Adley: Country level+ (Capable of fighting one of Oni Souei's clones evenly and killing him, and manages to kill two more before ultimately being defeated, although Souei's clones are weaker than the real one in an unknown margin. As an Enlightened and a member of the Ten Great Saints, should be comparable to Demon Lord Breeds like Clayman)

Shizue Izawa:

• Attack Potency: Unknown (Weaker than before, but should still retain much of her combat ability), likely Country level+ with Ifrit (Uniting with Ifrit, Shizue believes she could defeat Orthos, a named Arch Demon. Shizue one-shot a Fire Dragon, despite it being at least on the same level as a Sky Dragon on top of having flame resistance) | Country level+ (Shizue can completely control Ifrit and make his power her own. According to Hinata, Shizue is far stronger than Sage of Fire Azu, one of the Seven Celestial Sages who can borrow power from a Fire Spirit King. Shizue is also stronger than Gerald of Fire, one of the Ten Great Saints, according to Fuze)
• Durability: Unknown, likely Country level+ with Ifrit, Unknown with Anti-Magic Mask (The Anti-Magic mask is assumed to be a subject of a temporal paradox, cycling between its users through countless time-loops with an unknown origin. It is described to have a "time compression of infinity", an item that "surpasses time", and that "through countless eons it had remained the same, a universal constant". Diablo states that the endless loop set into motion comes back to Rimuru Tempest, its genesis and destruction, implying that the mask cannot be destroyed until it is possessed by Rimuru) | Country level+, possibly Unknown with Anti-Magic Mask

21.86 Teratons, 6-B (Less than, equal to, more than)​

Treyni (Dryad): Country level (Around two times weaker than her Dryad Humanoid Fairy form. Superior to the Kijins), likely Large Country level with Sylphide (Can harm Laplace and Charybdis)

Reynald Jesta: Country level, likely Country level+ (

Beretta (Arch Doll): Country level (Two times stronger than the Elemental Colossus, which is stronger than the Sky Dragon which was on Ifrit's level before Veldora's training)

Orc Disaster Geld: Country level (Comparable to Slime Rimuru and superior to the Kijins during the events of Volume 2. Should be stronger than the likes of a Sky Dragon, who is described to be capable of toppling a small country in seconds)

Hakurou (Kijin): Country level (Despite having lower energy, was described by Veldora to be potentially stronger than Pre-Orc Lord fight Rimuru and the strongest of the Kijins in combat ability. Was able to bisect and decapitate Orc Disaster Geld. Became stronger after training under Milim Nava)

Benimaru (Kijin): Country level (Superior to Hakurou. Became stronger after training under Milim Nava, with Rimuru stating that he can give Treyni a run for her money)

Shion (Kijin): Country level (Became stronger after training under Milim Nava, and described by Souei as second only to Benimaru in strength)

Souei (Kijin): Country level (Was able to restrain Orc Disaster Geld. Became stronger after training under Milim Nava, with Rimuru stating that he can give Treyni a run for her money)

10.93 Teratons, 6-B (Less than, equal to, more than)​

Ifrit: Country level (Has over half the magicules of Orc Disaster Geld. Comparable to the Sky Dragon who is described to be capable of toppling a small country in seconds)

I definitely had some issues with accuracy and phrasing here and there but overall it looks good.

I've been thinking we needed something like this for awhile myself.

Also did I miss it? I don't see Chaos Doll Beretta.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Looks great.

 

[Metalballrun]

I definitely had some issues with accuracy and phrasing here and there but overall it looks good.

Yes, it is still pretty rough. Feel free to voice out your concerns so that things can be more accurate and so on.

Also did I miss it? I don't see Chaos Doll Beretta.

It's because I'm still struggling with how to rate everyone below 76.5 Teratons.

I realized that the current list basically assumes that 700k EP means 76.5 Teratons of AP, since that was Seed Carrion's EP before awakening, and that's about the maximum EP Seed Rimuru had as an estimate (I recall a statement about TDL Rimuru's EP being around 7M or lower, I can't find it though).
It also makes sense because Treyni's EP as a Dryad Doll is 600k (in line with the statement of her being S Class but weaker than Carrion), and Rimuru being stronger should definitely have more EP than her.

The problem is:

• EP isn't always scaled linearly. Carrion was worried about Clayman who only had at most 100k more EP than him. And since Clayman only really got raw energy from his pseudo-awakening, Carrion was definitely concerned over strength. That wouldn't be the case if Clayman was only 1/8 stronger than Carrion.
• Lacking feats and statements to properly gauge everyone else's AP.

The same problem goes for those above 76.5 AP since that includes Awakened Clayman. With Roy/Louis having practically no feats except fighting Laplace whose power level goes from struggling against Roy up to fighting someone like Vega.

I think Saint Hinata should probably be downgraded to High 6-B+ too, though that's a minor concern.

Overall I'm waiting and hoping for more feats in V19 as well more information and EP for other characters.

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

I think Saint Hinata should probably be downgraded to

Wasn't there a statement that the Saint was equivalent to the True Demon Lord in volume 11?

So I think Hinata can stay at 6A since she is on par with the True Demon Lord.

From a sage that possibly rivalled a ‘Demon Lord Seed,’ a human could grow to become a ‘saint’ which was the equivalent of an awakened demon lord. (Volume 11)

 

[Metalballrun]

It doesn't exactly work like that.

Saints are just the equivalent evolutionary line of humans to the TDL of monsters. But just as TDL power levels may vary, so would Saints. Especially with Saints, since they need training and time to cultivate their strength.

Volume 12 basically says that Saint Yuuki > Saint Hinata, and Yuuki in terms of energy is around Leon and Ruminas level, the characters from which Rimuru is currently scaling from.

Plus, it's not that big of a downgrade anyways (assuming it's decided that that would be the case). The 6-A characters are practically baseline 6-A with only 5 Teratons above the baseline. Hinata would just scale below them.

 

[Community_Gamer]

Yes, it is still pretty rough. Feel free to voice out your concerns so that things can be more accurate and so on.


It's because I'm still struggling with how to rate everyone below 76.5 Teratons.

I realized that the current list basically assumes that 700k EP means 76.5 Teratons of AP, since that was Seed Carrion's EP before awakening, and that's about the maximum EP Seed Rimuru had as an estimate (I recall a statement about TDL Rimuru's EP being around 7M or lower, I can't find it though).
It also makes sense because Treyni's EP as a Dryad Doll is 600k (in line with the statement of her being S Class but weaker than Carrion), and Rimuru being stronger should definitely have more EP than her.

The problem is:

• EP isn't always scaled linearly. Carrion was worried about Clayman who only had at most 100k more EP than him. And since Clayman only really got raw energy from his pseudo-awakening, Carrion was definitely concerned over strength. That wouldn't be the case if Clayman was only 1/8 stronger than Carrion.
• Lacking feats and statements to properly gauge everyone else's AP.

The same problem goes for those above 76.5 AP since that includes Awakened Clayman. With Roy/Louis having practically no feats except fighting Laplace whose power level goes from struggling against Roy up to fighting someone like Vega.

I think Saint Hinata should probably be downgraded to High 6-B+ too, though that's a minor concern.

Overall I'm waiting and hoping for more feats in V19 as well more information and EP for other characters.

You shouldn't use EP to scale power. Its quite counterintuitive to the narrative and flawed.

Rimuru also said that unawakend Karion was 400K and Pseudo-Awakened Clayman was unstable so he was bouncing between 700K and 800K. That's why 800K became the baseline for Special S Rank.

Pseudo-Awakened Clayman should be at least several times stronger than Karion seeing as he thought he'd need to fight with Rimuru to win. Not surprising considering how massive the normal Harvest Festival is.

Anyways we should avoid using information outside of V12.

As for Beretta he no diff'd Viola who's stronger than Base Clayman.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Yes but that's fine it doesn't negate anything

hmm i know but, it feels weird, like, a weak world would be like, below Low 2-C in terms of potency, but above High 3-A

 

[Nxdia00]

Rimuru also said that unawakend Karion was 400K and Pseudo-Awakened Clayman was unstable so he was bouncing between 700K and 800K. That's why 800K became the baseline for Special S Rank.

Karion's EP before awakaned actually around 700K

"Or rather, there seem to be individual differences. My impression is that Karion's pre-evolutionary value was around 700,000, and Frey-san's was less than 400,000." – V18

 

[Metalballrun]

You shouldn't use EP to scale power. Its quite counterintuitive to the narrative and flawed.

EP is used as a baseline gauge for power, though? And that's how I'm using it.
EP is based on magicule content and physical abilities. So it's just as reliable, if not moreso, than just scaling based on magicule content, which is what we and the series has been doing prior to EP being introduced.

The EP system has obvious flaws, which is why I'm not using it as the sole basis for scaling. Other feats and statements would take precedent.
But the problem is there aren't any other alternatives, especially for those below 700k EP.

Rimuru also said that unawakend Karion was 400K and Pseudo-Awakened Clayman was unstable so he was bouncing between 700K and 800K. That's why 800K became the baseline for Special S Rank.

Carrion is 700k (V18). Clayman's official EP was only a few thousand short of 800k.

Anyways we should avoid using information outside of V12.

As for Beretta he no diff'd Viola who's stronger than Base Clayman.

I'm open for suggestions on how to downscale the rest of the characters.

As for Beretta, we can't really say Viola was definitely stronger. Viola only "looked stronger" than Clayman, it was a one-off statement by Rimuru IIRC.
Nevertheless, Chaos Doll Beretta has 400k EP IIRC so he scales above Clayman regardless, with beating Viola as supporting evidence.

 

[Metalballrun]

hmm i know but, it feels weird, like, a weak world would be like, below Low 2-C in terms of potency, but above High 3-A

"Weak worlds" only refers to the lack of magic.
Our world, where Mikami Satoru came from, is a weak world for example.

 

[Bernkastelll]

"Weak worlds" only refers to the lack of magic.
Our world, where Mikami Satoru came from, is a weak world for example.

Alr

 

[Community_Gamer]

EP is used as a baseline gauge for power, though? And that's how I'm using it.
EP is based on magicule content and physical abilities. So it's just as reliable, if not moreso, than just scaling based on magicule content, which is what we and the series has been doing prior to EP being introduced.

EP used in conjunction with Rankings and Threat Levels does give a minimum gauge of one's tier, therefore their minimum power. But ascertaining their specific AP should be strictly through feats and power scaling. What I'm getting as is that I don't think one should use EP to scale to someone else's EP and therefore scale to their feats and/or statements.

I'll think I'll leave it at, and let those that care naturally form their own views.

The EP system has obvious flaws, which is why I'm not using it as the sole basis for scaling. Other feats and statements would take precedent.
But the problem is there aren't any other alternatives, especially for those below 700k EP.

Yes, which would simply be left as inclusive.

Carrion is 700k (V18). Clayman's official EP was only a few thousand short of 800k.

Are you talking about after his training?
Or Awakened Karion?...hmm no Awakened Karion is higher than that.

Yeah I don't recall that referring to past Karion but you could remind me. Well I'll get that section again eventually since I'm almost done rereading again.

I'm open for suggestions on how to downscale the rest of the characters.

As for Beretta, we can't really say Viola was definitely stronger. Viola only "looked stronger" than Clayman, it was a one-off statement by Rimuru IIRC.
Nevertheless, Chaos Doll Beretta has 400k EP IIRC so he scales above Clayman regardless, with beating Viola as supporting evidence.

I don't know about scaling above Clayman at the time. By Base Clayman I meant before Crazed Pierrot/Clown aka Full Power Clayman. Beretta also trains and gets stronger by the time of V10. So he may have not been as strong as Clayman during V6.

 

[Metalballrun]

But ascertaining their specific AP should be strictly through feats and power scaling. What I'm getting as is that I don't think one should use EP to scale to someone else's EP and therefore scale to their feats and/or statements.

That's true, but:

1. It counts as supporting evidence and, like you said, a potential baseline value.
2. We do see EP used in an almost linear scaling, with Yuuki, Laplace, and Jahil. So in their case specifically, their AP would be scaled accordingly with how Fuse used EP as multipliers.
3. Like I said before, there are problems with characters in the Sage/Seed level, as they lack feats and enough scaling statements to backscale them from Seed Rimuru.

That's why I'm asking for suggestions, and it's also why I'm taking really long to finish this on top of other things I'm doing, since I'm well aware that Existence Value isn't enough.
Thing is we need exact values and reliable scaling chain for the revision to be feasibly approved.

Yes, which would simply be left as inclusive.

Did you mean inconclusive?

Are you talking about after his training?

Rimuru said Carrion has an estimated 700k EP prior to his awakening, while Frey had 400k. This is in Volume 18, when the two's performance in the labyrinth were being discussed.

By Base Clayman I meant before Crazed Pierrot/Clown aka Full Power Clayman. Beretta also trains and gets stronger by the time of V10. So he may have not been as strong as Clayman during V6.

How much stronger did Clayman even get in his Crazy Pierrot form? I don't think it was any significant, he essentially just went into "battle mode".

I haven't read the series in a very long while so I forgot who had training and how much they've become stronger, so it would be nice if we get some list of it.
But we are making aggregated keys of characters anyways, so e.g. Beretta's Chaos Doll key would include feats in V10 and beyond.

At a later date I'm gonna go over the scaling chain again, maybe browse your discord for feats since I don't have time right now.

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Chapter list volume 19

Spoiler: Chapter list LN volume 19

LN19

- Disturbance in the Capital
Prologue
- The Head Angel Makes His Move
Ch1 - The First Battle
Intermission - Legions of Justice
Ch2 - The Great War Begins
Ch3 - Capital in Flames
Ch4 - AssembledWarriors
Final - Evolving Evil

 

[Community_Gamer]

That's true, but:

1. It counts as supporting evidence and, like you said, a potential baseline value.
2. We do see EP used in an almost linear scaling, with Yuuki, Laplace, and Jahil. So in their case specifically, their AP would be scaled accordingly with how Fuse used EP as multipliers.
3. Like I said before, there are problems with characters in the Sage/Seed level, as they lack feats and enough scaling statements to backscale them from Seed Rimuru.

That's why I'm asking for suggestions, and it's also why I'm taking really long to finish this on top of other things I'm doing, since I'm well aware that Existence Value isn't enough.
Thing is we need exact values and reliable scaling chain for the revision to be feasibly approved.

I understand. But I want to say I don't think that all or possibly most of those characters can be scaled to specific quantifiable degree.

At least aside from the bare minimum power each threat level is said to have in the series.

Did you mean inconclusive?

I just you couldn't make a claims on it either way. So its left as unknown until further, elaboration.

Rimuru said Carrion has an estimated 700k EP prior to his awakening, while Frey had 400k. This is in Volume 18, when the two's performance in the labyrinth were being discussed.

Yes, I know but I'm saying that be after his training with Milim but before awakening. I guess it doesn't matter if you were referring to Karion like way past V6. If so, then its fine.

How much stronger did Clayman even get in his Crazy Pierrot form? I don't think it was any significant, he essentially just went into "battle mode".

As for Clayman I'll let you judge for yourself.

Clayman is holding something, something precious looking. It is a mask, a clown mask with the carving of a smile. He puts it on without hesitation. “Oh? Now you seem a bit more intrigued. You are beginning to impress me. I am Demon Lord Rimuru-sama’s personal secretary Shion. Allow me to be your opponent!” Shion looks delighted and announces her name to Clayman. Clayman also— “Demon Lord—No, I am ‘The Laughing Clown (Crazy Pierrot)’ Clayman. I’ll kill you, Majin Shion!” He responds by announcing his title. That’s how they begin their fight at the same time. Clayman with his true self revealed isvery strong. As expected from a demon lord, he is approaching Shion with a strong mana. His natural pair of hands are controlling those ominous black silk beams.The upper pair of hands on his back hold an axe and a mace while the lower half holds a sword and a shield. He is trying to give Shion a hard time with manipulation of both magical and physical attacks. However, Shion is stronger. She waves her odachi named “Hercules’ Edge · Ex” to deflect Clayman’s sword and smash through his shield. Her straight swing from up to down also destroyed the defending axe and mace. All of this wild strength originates from Shion’s Intrinsic Skill “Orge Berserker”. As for her almost cheating effect of weapon destruction, it is probably due to “Certain Outcome” and “Optimal Action” from “Chef”. In other words, Clayman is no match against Shion. Even with his true strength, Clayman is still beaten to a pulp by Shion.

I haven't read the series in a very long while so I forgot who had training and how much they've become stronger, so it would be nice if we get some list of it.
But we are making aggregated keys of characters anyways, so e.g. Beretta's Chaos Doll key would include feats in V10 and beyond.

Well that's good all but that would mean for Tensura those keys would change over time since more context and scaling is revealed. So I its really going come down what cut off is.

At a later date I'm gonna go over the scaling chain again, maybe browse your discord for feats since I don't have time right now.

I'm re-reading the entire series again. Just finished re-reading the manga and Veldora Journals. I'm finishing up V11, I've highlighting statements, feats, and scans for updating older chats. Like there's niche stuff for Benimaru I didn't bother with early on. I've adding new (new as in didn't have them before) characters too, like Treyni and Shuna.

 

[Community_Gamer]

Chapter list volume 19

V19 Spoilers

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Leak Volume 19

Spoiler: leak volume 19

A brief summary of the leaked volume 19:
Prologue:
Michael knew of Obera's betrayal and even though Obera's subordinates fought back, their attacks still couldn't penetrate Michael's Castle Guard and as a result Michael destroyed all of Obera's phantoms. (I don't know exactly whether Obera was also killed or just his subordinates.)

Chapter 1:
Rimuru and Benimaru arrived at Leon's castle just in time for Yuuki, Laplace, Tear, and Kagali to be hit by an ignorant attack. Well, Rimuru managed to save them, after all, by devouring Evil's attacks.

The battle between Silvia and Leon was still at a stalemate.

Benimaru fights Jahil, Benimaru loses 4x the amount of EP from Jahil's EP, and Jahil also has a spear-shaped weapon made by Divine Ancestor. In the end Jahil surpassed Benimaru.

Rimuru fought Feldway, Rimuru used Nihility Collapse on his sword, but didn't know that Feldway actually had Castle Guards and could withstand Rimuru's attacks. Rimuru had quite a bit of trouble against Feldway while Ciel was still analyzing the fight.

Ranga against Vega, actually Vega's Azi Dahaka skill is really strong, but he's the only one who doesn't know how to use it, as a result he only uses punches. Meanwhile Ranga easily blocked Vega's attack by using Stellar Wind King Hastur.

 

[Metalballrun]

I understand. But I want to say I don't think that all or possibly most of those characters can be scaled to specific quantifiable degree.

At least aside from the bare minimum power each threat level is said to have in the series.

Yes, that's fair. Bare minimum is already very helpful.

The main problem is that EP sometimes isn't really linearly scaled as well though, I only try to scale it linearly when I literally have no other choice or Fuse explicitly uses it linearly, but it obviously creates more problems.

So its left as unknown until further, elaboration.

It would be a bit problematic if we leave several profiles at unknown.
We just don't know how much weaker they are compared to the characters scaling directly from feats. There is EP, but I'm avoiding using it as the main basis for scaling as much as possible.

Yes, I know but I'm saying that be after his training with Milim but before awakening.

Was it stated that Milim's training made Carrion significantly stronger? IIRC Carrion and Frey rejected Milim's offer for training, could be wrong.

As for Clayman I'll let you judge for yourself.

Yeah, it doesn't really seem that Clayman got stronger by a lot, his strength should still be around what his EP suggests not counting his Skills which are hax-based anyways.
I think we already scale base Clayman to the highest possible, counting this Crazy Pierrot form IIRC.

So I its really going come down what cut off is.

We will make separate keys for certain arcs if it's warranted. Before deciding to upgrade everyone, I initially wanted Shion to have a third 6-B key during V11 (WN Shion has a similar key).
If there are characters that have quantifiable massive boost or changes in between arcs, it's possible for them to get another key.

've highlighting statements, feats, and scans for updating older chats.

Haven't checked Discord in a while, I'll do so later since spoilers from V19 seems to be available now.

 

[Community_Gamer]

Yes, that's fair. Bare minimum is already very helpful.

The main problem is that EP sometimes isn't really linearly scaled as well though, I only try to scale it linearly when I literally have no other choice or Fuse explicitly uses it linearly, but it obviously creates more problems.

Hazard: A threat that could potentially cause widespread damage to a single town or region.
Calamity: A threat that could topple a country's government. Ex: Rimuru says three Calamities can destroy a country. And Myuormiles says they can casually destroy cities.
Disaster: Small nations would have no chance against such a threat, and a larger one would need to expend all its resources to handle it.
Catastrophe: This level applies only to some extraordinarily powerful demon lords, as well as True Dragons, and reflected the kind of threat that no single nation could handle. It would require international cooperation to give the human race even a chance at survival.

tI would be a bit problematic if we leave several profiles at unknown.
We just don't know how much weaker they are compared to the characters scaling directly from feats. There is EP, but I'm avoiding using it as the main basis for scaling as much as possible.

Problematic yes but it is the case the so be it.

Was it stated that Milim's training made Carrion significantly stronger? IIRC Carrion and Frey rejected Milim's offer for training, could be wrong.

Pretty we learn he's been training with Milim for awhile but since she's so strong he can't really determine his progress, but I'll check later

Yeah, it doesn't really seem that Clayman got stronger by a lot, his strength should still be around what his EP suggests not counting his Skills which are hax-based anyways.
I think we already scale base Clayman to the highest possible, counting this Crazy Pierrot form IIRC.

What's significant is that Shion had to use Orge Berserker which pushes her body beyond its limits.

We will make separate keys for certain arcs if it's warranted. Before deciding to upgrade everyone, I initially wanted Shion to have a third 6-B key during V11 (WN Shion has a similar key).
If there are characters that have quantifiable massive boost or changes in between arcs, it's possible for them to get another key.

Sounds fine

Haven't checked Discord in a while, I'll do so later since spoilers from V19 seems to be available now.