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Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 20

Shouldn't Rimuru have Negation Immortality Type 6 for the same reason he got Type 9?
Yes, also practically (in versus battles) acausality type 3 negation.
Those branching timelines do exist, since Velgrynd even travelled between them, and because there wouldn't be any other way to prevent overlapping identity contradictions from happening. This is why Velgrynd could travel to different timelines but not a timeline where she already existed in.
Is there proof that the space-time continuums Velgrynd travels to are branched versions of the same timeline rather than other worlds? (consider next reply)
I think this solves the question of whether parallel worlds or dimensions exist.
There's a difference between parallel dimensions, and branched versions of the same timeline.

By the way, can you link the interwiev?
---Seeing as the story revolves around Rimuru, it would appear that even the fierce battles seem warm and welcoming. However, the outside world is harsh, creating a stark contrast in the mood. Once again, I think "TenSura" is Rimuru's story.

Fuse: Indeed. Guy by his lonesome can destroy the world, but he doesn't do that because it's pointless. Perhaps the reason why not a lot of characters who would do meaningless things is because of "TenSura".
 
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Is there proof that the space-time continuums Velgrynd travels to are branched versions of the same timeline rather than other worlds? (consider next reply)
Yes. The Kanji used for the ParaIIeI Worlds in the scan where it was taIking about ParaIIeI WorIds not overIaping in Voume 17 in context to TimeIines within a Dimension is the same as the exact same as the Kanji used for paraIIeI WorIds in context to branching timeIines in VoIume 11
And both have that property of the same identity cannot overIap in the same paraIIeI WorId
I also found an interview with Fuze-sensei and he said these interesting facts:
Can you give the source of these interviews?
 
@CodeCCLL @Berga14 @Franako
Should we give Aca4 or at least Limited Aca4 to Primals in their non-US key?
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@CodeCCLL @Berga14 @Franako
Should we give Aca4 or at least Limited Aca4 to Primals in their non-US key?
image.png
Primal Magic could also damage Velgrynd, and is essentially Nihility Banish is a Primal Magic, as well as being comparable to an Ultimate Magic like Disintegration.

So to me both Ultimate Magic and Primal Magic itself is like an acausality type 4 attack.

Therefore, just add subtitles such as "Dark Magic" , "Primal Magic" , "Ultimate Magic" to the "Magic and Skills" page and expand the page.
 
Therefore, just add subtitles such as "Dark Magic" , "Primal Magic" , "Ultimate Magic" to the "Magic and Skills" page and expand the page.
Not that, I'm talking about giving Aca4 to them because "they cannot be harmed by half-hearted attacks, only through applying Ultimate enchantment Alternate to all of attacks could Damrada inflict any damage on Ultima"
That's practically the same as Aca4 + Invulnerability that US users have
 
Not that, I'm talking about giving Aca4 to them because "they cannot be harmed by half-hearted attacks, only through applying Ultimate enchantment Alternate to all of attacks could Damrada inflict any damage on Ultima"
That's practically the same as Aca4 + Invulnerability that US users have
I think it should work, but given how intertwined haxes and physical stats are in Tensura, this may need to be elaborating. Anyway, we'll talk about it in crt in due course.

(I don't see any reason why it should be limited)
 


What would this give Guy?
More proof for acausality type 4 (due to the nature of subspace).
Also seeing this it seems to be Negation of immortality with preparation.
If we are talking about permanently destroying Guy, this also requires negating the high-godly resurrection.

With enough preparation time, combat applicable immortality type 5 and high godly resurrection negation can work.
 
Also seeing this it seems to be Negation of immortality with preparation.


I think this is likely referring to "Disintegration" as that spell requires some time to cast, and it can destroy everything down to the Ego, which Primordial Demons aren't shown to regen from [they are only shown to do so from Core destruction]

Although, if we do give it Immortality and Resurrection negation, then we can give it to Velgrynd as well
The demon lord Leon, Guy’s cooperative pawn at the moment, was being threatened by Jaune in his territory. Violet was active in the West, and any false moves could lead to untold damage. Blanc, of course, was stationed in the East.

These demons boasted incredible powers, wholly exempt from the concept of death. It wasn’t impossible to eradicate them at the root, but it would require careful, intricate preparations—but instead of paying all those sacrifices, it was best to negotiate and win them over to your side. That, Ludora and Velgrynd believed, was the most advisable move to make against Guy in this game.
If Velgrynd made it a fight, she could destroy Blanc, but the damage to the region would be unimaginable. It wasn’t a realistic option, they concluded.
I think this is enough to say that by "destroy" Velgrynd was referring to permanent destruction.
 
Guys I was thinking of fixing our information type 2. We understand that interacting with soul or spiritual body does not necessarily grant them information type 2 sometimes. Like let's say you destroy an object. The information of that object will still remain. So destroying an object does not mean it works on a fundamental level. We understand that Tensura has different kind of molecules as well so yeah everything is still composed of information yes but it doesn't mean they can interact with information. Like the lock curse placed on Summoners. That has nothing to do with information type 2

So Info type 2 would only be given to those who can permanently kill spiritual lifeform. Like diablo who killed a demon without any possible chance of resurrection and the Devastator Virus that works on hgr resurrection (Ramiris bracelet) while the affects are still active making resurrection difficult

Info type 2 will be removed for those who only interact with the soul

To be honest I think spiritual lifeforms can keep their ae info type 2 because we still consider the core as information and we have never seen any humans interact with the abstract form of spiritual lifeforms only spiritual lifeforms has manage to interact with the abstract form so far and they are able to resurrect as long as their information particles are safe. But still conceptual magic can still be used on spiritual lifeforms that has a physical/material body. So yeah demi spiritual lifeform who does not have the ability to fully resurrect can die if the core of their material body is destroyed not talking about the core/heart that exists within the soul. So we should consider the possibility that spiritual lifeforms can kill each other with their Abstract forms.

For the Death Streak part I think it is possible that spiritual lifeforms could reconstruct their body and withstand that attack. So there is possibility that this could be hgr but the chances are slim and would only be given to full fledge spiritual lifeforms that can resurrect from physical destruction





What do you think @CodeCCLL @Astral_Trinity439
@ashen
 
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I think this is likely referring to "Disintegration" as that spell requires some time to cast, and it can destroy everything down to the Ego,
There is mentione of intricate preparations and sacrifices, on the other hand disintegration can be done almost instantly if the target is small as we saw with Nicolas. So no.
which Primordial Demons aren't shown to regen from [they are only shown to do so from Core destruction]
Again no. It is obsivously stated that primordials can return from any condition. Also strongly implied that the core contains the ego, so destroying the core means destroying the ego.
I think this is enough to say that by "destroy" Velgrynd was referring to permanent destruction.
It is not enough unless there is mention of eradicating at the root or destroying permanently.
 
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Guys I was thinking of fixing our information type 2. We understand that interacting with soul or spiritual body does not necessarily grant them information type 2 sometimes. Like let's say you destroy an object. The information of that object will still remain. So destroying an object does not mean it works on a fundamental level. We understand that Tensura has different kind of molecules as well so yeah everything is still composed of information yes but it doesn't mean they can interact with information. Like the lock curse placed on Summoners. That has nothing to do with information type 2

Info type 2 to those who can permanently kill spiritual lifeform. Like diablo who killed a demon without any possible chance of resurrection and the Devastator Virus that works on hgr resurrection (Ramiris bracelet) while the affects are still active making resurrection difficult

Info type 2 will be removed for those who only interact with the soul

To be honest I think spiritual lifeforms can keep their ae info type 2 because we still consider the core as information and we have never seen any humans interact with the abstract form of spiritual lifeforms only spiritual lifeforms has manage to interact with the abstract form so far

For the Death Streak part I think it is possible that spiritual lifeforms could reconstruct their body and withstand that attack. So there is possibility that this could be hgr but the chances are slim and would only be given to full fledge spiritual lifeforms that can resurrect from physical destruction





What do you think @CodeCCLL @Astral_Trinity439
@ashen


I edited the reply btw I had a discussion with ashen earlier
 
Guys I was thinking of fixing our information type 2. We understand that interacting with soul or spiritual body does not necessarily grant them information type 2 sometimes. Like let's say you destroy an object. The information of that object will still remain. So destroying an object does not mean it works on a fundamental level. We understand that Tensura has different kind of molecules as well so yeah everything is still composed of information yes but it doesn't mean they can interact with information. Like the lock curse placed on Summoners. That has nothing to do with information type 2

Info type 2 to those who can permanently kill spiritual lifeform. Like diablo who killed a demon without any possible chance of resurrection and the Devastator Virus that works on hgr resurrection (Ramiris bracelet) while the affects are still active making resurrection difficult

Info type 2 will be removed for those who only interact with the soul

To be honest I think spiritual lifeforms can keep their ae info type 2 because we still consider the core as information and we have never seen any humans interact with the abstract form of spiritual lifeforms only spiritual lifeforms has manage to interact with the abstract form so far and they are able to resurrect as long as their information particles are safe. But still conceptual magic can still be used on spiritual lifeforms that has a physical/material body. So yeah demi spiritual lifeform who does not have the ability to fully resurrect can die if the core of their material body is destroyed not talking about the core/heart that exists in the soul

For the Death Streak part I think it is possible that spiritual lifeforms could reconstruct their body and withstand that attack. So there is possibility that this could be hgr but the chances are slim and would only be given to full fledge spiritual lifeforms that can resurrect from physical destruction





What do you think @CodeCCLL @Astral_Trinity439
@ashen


Also about the Unconventional resistance to Info type 2. That part should be removed as well since it is only talking about the core of the material body. Volume 1 did not introduce us about the heart yet which is the most crucial thing. I think that is all from me
 
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Guys I was thinking of fixing our information type 2. We understand that interacting with soul or spiritual body does not necessarily grant them information type 2 sometimes.
Heavily agree.... just because you interact with a concept doesn't mean its Conceptual Manip, can just be NPI on concepts.
Unless its a case where its stated that a being can interact with Information particle or information due to them having the same nature as it[example, DLFS], or are stated to directly manipulate info particles themselves[such as Raphael], giving them NPI on Info type 2 would suffice.
Like let's say you destroy an object. The information of that object will still remain. So destroying an object does not mean it works on a fundamental level.
We understand that Tensura has different kind of molecules as well so yeah everything is still composed of information yes but it doesn't mean they can interact with information.
Exactly. Just because you destroyed something doesn't mean you destroyed its fundamental aspect. Additionally, just because you destroyed a fundamental aspect doesn't mean you did it via purely manipulation of the "substance" that composes said aspect, rather then pure force; Soul destruction does not mean Soul Manipulation.
Like the lock curse placed on Summoners. That has nothing to do with information type 2
Agreed as well.
Info type 2 to those who can permanently kill spiritual lifeform. Like diablo who killed a demon without any possible chance of resurrection and the Devastator Virus that works on hgr resurrection (Ramiris bracelet) while the affects are still active making resurrection difficult
Unsure about the Devastator Virus, but if my memory serves correctly, we are never elaborated upon that Demons destroy Souls via interacting with Information or Information particle directly, same with Diablo. So giving it NPI on Info type 2 should be sufficient, and far better then direct info type 2.

However, this might grant them Limited info type 2 of sort
The Secret Art of Revival had to be woven using arcane wisdom that humankind couldn’t even begin to understand. It naturally required a massive amount of magical energy, along with an unimaginable amount of force to control it. Even a high-level magic-born couldn’t do that. Only demons, with their knowledge of controlling souls, could handle the job, and even then only a handful of higher-level demons. Heh-heh-heh-heh-heh. I’d expect nothing less of my master.
Its stated that they can manipulate the Soul itself, rather then simply destroy it.
Info type 2 will be removed for those who only interact with the soul
That depends on how the "Interaction" is performed. Exampled above by Demons, who were stated to be able to do that in context to Raphael performing the secret art, and we know that Raphael itself can manipulate Information particles.
To be honest I think spiritual lifeforms can keep their ae info type 2 because we still consider the core as information and we have never seen any humans interact with the abstract form of spiritual lifeforms only spiritual lifeforms has manage to interact with the abstract form so far and they are able to resurrect as long as their information particles are safe.
Agreed
But still conceptual magic can still be used on spiritual lifeforms that has a physical/material body. So yeah demi spiritual lifeform who does not have the ability to fully resurrect can die if the core of their material body is destroyed not talking about the core that exists in the soul
Conceptual Magic would not be Info manip type 2, btw. It would also only be NPI on info type 2
Also about the Unconventional resistance to Info type 2. That part should be removed as well since it is only talking about the core of the material body.
Not sure who has that at their profiles atm, so could you elaborate? Are you referring to True Dragons?
Volume 1 did not introduce us about the heart yet which is the most crucial thing. I think that is all from me
It did, actually.
…Indeed, even if I escaped in spiritual form only, it would be quite difficult to regather magic and form my core once more. Your creating a small tear in the prison helped my chances immensely, no doubt. As for that receptacle—the new core, if you will—if you can bring one to me, all I’d have to do is traverse myself over to it. Transmigration, I suppose…
It sounded as though you could also use this Unlimited Imprisonment skill to cover your own body, making a shield to protect from external attack. Pretty handy thing to have around. This hero was starting to sound downright omnipotent. Between that and Absolute Severance, she was all but invincible, wasn’t she? I really wouldn’t want to run into her…but then, I wouldn’t have to. I would have liked to assume she had died in the ensuing three hundred years, at least. Either way, she was one tough character. So if I was going to get him out of here, it would be through transferring his consciousness into a new body, huh?
As far as I could piece together in the ensuing conversation, the basic idea went like this:
Using his consciousness alone, he could gather magicules toward him to form a physical body. Said body was currently being held in this prison, but that prison also prevented his will from collecting the magic he needed. Could he escape in consciousness form alone? No, because he needed some kind of receptacle. If he simply burst out in spirit form, his essence would scatter to the winds like the magic itself, erasing his very existence. This would result in the birth of a new storm dragon, somehow, somewhere—I didn’t care about the details by this point. But to sum up, maybe he could escape, but if he did, he’d wind up being something else. It wouldn’t matter to him.
Received.
Partial Analysis of unique skill Unlimited Imprisonment complete.

Reporting a potential escape route.

Any escape involving a physical body is not possible. The chance of destroying the prison by physically damaging it is zero. Cannot analyze an escape route involving the annulment of imaginary space. One would need to be caught within the same Unlimited Imprisonment situation in order to analyze it from the inside. This is currently impossible. The chance of escaping in spiritual form is one percent. If a spiritual receptacle is prepared for the target on the outside to aid in the transition, the success rate is three percent. This process is equivalent to transmigration. If the target is poorly compatible with the receptacle, he will lose all memories and abilities. This concludes the report on potential escape routes.
However, to begin with, even normal Spiritual lifeforms can keep their memories inside the Spiritual Body rather then the Physical body, so it its transferring to another physical body[which you claim is what's referring to the "Core" here], then there's no need for him to lose his memories...... UNLESS said core refers to the Heart Core, because we already know that True Dragons, while being able to reincarnate from Core Destruction, still lose their memories while doing so.
 
We understand that interacting with soul or spiritual body does not necessarily grant them information type 2 sometimes
What is currently accepted is that the soul itself is type 2 information, interacting with the soul is only information type 2 interaction, not information type 2 manipulation.
Like let's say you destroy an object. The information of that object will still remain.
The information of an object is type 1 information. The information that constitutes an object is type 2 information.
We understand that Tensura has different kind of molecules as well so yeah everything is still composed of information yes but it doesn't mean they can interact with information
You seems confuse. The origin/root of all kinds of matter is information particles, but controlling the matter by people who cannot control with information particles is not quantum manipulation. However, in a situation where things such as the soul, mind, memories, thoughts are information type 2, manipulating these metaphysical aspects is information type 2 manipulation.
Like the lock curse placed on Summoners. That has nothing to do with information type 2
If you do not see the soul as information type 2 in the first place, you can say this, otherwise taking the soul captive would be this information manipulation type 2.
To be honest I think spiritual lifeforms can keep their ae info type 2 because we still consider the core as information and we have never seen any humans interact with the abstract form of spiritual lifeforms only spiritual lifeforms has manage to interact with the abstract form
No ordinary human can physically interact with the soul/information type 2 anyway, I have no idea why you are talking about the core for AE justification.
For the Death Streak part I think it is possible that spiritual lifeforms could reconstruct their body and withstand that attack. So there is possibility that this could be hgr but the chances are slim and would only be given to full fledge spiritual lifeforms that can resurrect from physical destruction
What are you talking about here?
Also about the Unconventional resistance to Info type 2. That part should be removed as well since it is only talking about the core of the material body. Volume 1 did not introduce us about the heart yet which is the most crucial thing. I think that is all from me
There are not two cores, material and metaphysical, but metaphysical core has physical vessel consisting of information particles that encompass the conceptual self.

I agree with idea of Veldora being independent of the physical part of the core, which consists of information particles, and removal of unconventional resistance to information manipulation type 2.
 
I don't know why I relate the Negation of immortality with the angelic ability "Michael", since if I remember correctly Rudra can't use it much and that wears him out. Also, I don't know if it's true but Michael said he would kill Diablo, I don't remember well. Also in volume 21 Feldway killed everyone including the primordials, this happens when Feldway has the angelic ability "Michael". Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know if it's related.
 
What does this suggest?
R>F between Physical and Spiritual Worlds via these analogies in the BDE page:
As a default, statements of being "above dimensions" are set at Low 1-A, and the same is applied to statements indicating superiority over "All of space and time," and similar. However, if they are applied to realms that can be inferred to surpass the very composition of the lower reality (e.g. Realms that are, themselves, non-composite, such as conceptual domains, or often, voids of nothingness), then 1-A is the most appropriate rating for them.


Furthermore, keep in mind that Type 2 Beyond-Dimensional Existence (In particular the latter variant) is not simply a combination of a non-dimensional state of existence and greater raw power than all dimensional structures in a cosmology – Though that is a necessary condition to qualify for it, it is not a sufficient one. Instead, the non-dimensional state of existence must be the direct cause of the character/realm's superiority over dimensions. A simple example being voids of nothingness that lack space, time and physicality entirely, but are nonetheless "vaster" than physical reality in some way, with common imagery being the universe as a small object encompassed in such a backdrop.
Also where did you get this from?
Because Space-Time on a Non 1-A level is still essentially Physical. There is this scan implying that the "Space-time" of a Spiritual world is not just your normal Non 1-A Physical Space is this. Additionally, according to the void manipulation page itself:
Void Manipulation, also known as Nothingness Manipulation is the ability to control and manipulate a void: nothingness or non-existence.

Empty space and black holes are not examples of a void as they possess energy and exist in the conventional sense. Manipulating either is Spatial Manipulation and Black Hole Creation respectively.
Which means "Voids" are not simply just "Empty Spaces" as Space is still Physical, while Nonexistence is not
The physical body of every character with this ability has to be nonexistent. That means that users always are Incorporeal, unless maybe they physically qualify for Paradoxical Nonexistence. That means that robots or similar don't qualify for spiritual or mental nonexistence, as they physically exist. Incorporeality alone, however, is not enough. The character has to additionally have at least one combination of the following types:
 
@CodeCCLL @Mizuki67 @Digital_Franz @Meli_Tempest @Curcuma_x_curcuma @Eikichi_Sensei

Hopefully the time interval between this one and the last one doesn't hinder the progress :)
 
@CodeCCLL @Mizuki67 @Digital_Franz @Meli_Tempest @Curcuma_x_curcuma @Eikichi_Sensei

Hopefully the time interval between this one and the last one doesn't hinder the progress :)
Some abilities wording seam cut of, normally there is the "expand to read more" but now thete isn't

Edit: idk if it is only my problem
Edit ²: nothing, it was just my problem
 
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