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I am against the WN having Photos, at least for the Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ke frontpage. I just want to remind that many character designs are different in the WN - like Milim. She's a blonde goth loli there.
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Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 12
- Thread starter Celestial_Pegasus
- Start date
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I just made an unfathomable discovery! And I can't comprehend how no one among us ever managed to notice it!
It concerns the "Imaginary Space".
First off, while it still has not been 100% confirmed yet, it seems like Rimuru's Time Warp really seems to be 5D (possibly even 6D depending on what the standard assumptions for the multiverse void are) based on various threads I have been reading.
So let's look at what happens. First off Yuuki uses his technique on Rimuru, which "sends Rimuru to the end of time of the local space-time continuum" (most likely 4D). Evidently this part is NOT simple timetravel, since Ciel is able to make observations at the time, so it seems like Rimuru's "time" was accelerated to infinite instead since Rimuru would be able to obviously break out of any sort of "barriers" or other status effects cast upon him (which means that PTD Rimuru's key version of Ciel already got at least infinite calculation speed). During that entire time, the imaginary space was accumulating energy at a rate that, from the context, appears to be the normal speed of the space-time continuum, though appearently Veldora was asleep within as well, probably due to Ciel not wanting to deal with a bored nagging Veldora the entire time, or perhaps due to Rimuru's soul corridor with him, causing Veldora's "inner time" to be accelerated to infinite as well.
Then the effect wore off once the timeaxis reached its ends. This is where things get interesting. At this point Rimuru is within the multiversial (2-C up to 2-A, possibly High 2-A) void. Here Rimuru stands observing the location of the now disappeard Space-Time Bubble of the universe, or perhaps even entire multiverse since the universe he was in seemed to be "main universe" of Veldanava's multiverse. At this point Rimuru does something completely outlandish compared to any other feats up until now. He intiates a Space-Time travel that includes the void of the multiverse, which obviously needs an additional time axis that's specific to the mutliverse void (since he needs to "go back" within the timeline of the multiverse to reach a "time" where the universe space-time bubble "still exists") and then proceed through the already known 4 dimensions (1 temporal + 3 spatial) of the universe Rimuru just came from, which makes 5 dimensions in total, though optionally if we assume that the "multiverse void" has 4 spatial dimensions by default, then Rimuru would even be traveling through 6 dimensions in total, but as I said the 6th one depends on how the "standard assumptions" for the multiverse void are handled.
This is where things get really weird. During this Time Warp, Veldora also somehow is still there, and the imaginary space including all its contents too, despite no indication whatsoever from Rimuru's or Ciel's side that they'd be "taking the entire imaginary space along". That might not be an issue if we assume the imaginary space to be "inside" Rimuru, but that doesn't seem to be the case based on the following line:
This means that it technically isn't a part of Rimuru by default and would continue existing even if Rimuru died/stopped existing.
This means that Imaginary Space might be something that exists even BEYOND Rimuru's Time Warp capabilities or at least on an equal level. Hence his Imaginary Space could be 5D, 6D or even 7D, depending on how the standard assumptions go. Based on Ciel being able to calculate all these things, I think her having immeasurable calculation speed in the EoS would be appropriate as well.
And this might admittedly be a bit of a long-shot, but based on these discoveries I wonder if Rimuru's statements about his thoughts and memories transcending space-time, might actually imply High-Godly Regenerationn with the now additional supporting evidence (i.e. no longer just "flowery language") and not just a simple connection with his other selves, but I might have to re-read these passages first to ensure I don't remember them wrong.
It concerns the "Imaginary Space".
First off, while it still has not been 100% confirmed yet, it seems like Rimuru's Time Warp really seems to be 5D (possibly even 6D depending on what the standard assumptions for the multiverse void are) based on various threads I have been reading.
So let's look at what happens. First off Yuuki uses his technique on Rimuru, which "sends Rimuru to the end of time of the local space-time continuum" (most likely 4D). Evidently this part is NOT simple timetravel, since Ciel is able to make observations at the time, so it seems like Rimuru's "time" was accelerated to infinite instead since Rimuru would be able to obviously break out of any sort of "barriers" or other status effects cast upon him (which means that PTD Rimuru's key version of Ciel already got at least infinite calculation speed). During that entire time, the imaginary space was accumulating energy at a rate that, from the context, appears to be the normal speed of the space-time continuum, though appearently Veldora was asleep within as well, probably due to Ciel not wanting to deal with a bored nagging Veldora the entire time, or perhaps due to Rimuru's soul corridor with him, causing Veldora's "inner time" to be accelerated to infinite as well.
Then the effect wore off once the timeaxis reached its ends. This is where things get interesting. At this point Rimuru is within the multiversial (2-C up to 2-A, possibly High 2-A) void. Here Rimuru stands observing the location of the now disappeard Space-Time Bubble of the universe, or perhaps even entire multiverse since the universe he was in seemed to be "main universe" of Veldanava's multiverse. At this point Rimuru does something completely outlandish compared to any other feats up until now. He intiates a Space-Time travel that includes the void of the multiverse, which obviously needs an additional time axis that's specific to the mutliverse void (since he needs to "go back" within the timeline of the multiverse to reach a "time" where the universe space-time bubble "still exists") and then proceed through the already known 4 dimensions (1 temporal + 3 spatial) of the universe Rimuru just came from, which makes 5 dimensions in total, though optionally if we assume that the "multiverse void" has 4 spatial dimensions by default, then Rimuru would even be traveling through 6 dimensions in total, but as I said the 6th one depends on how the "standard assumptions" for the multiverse void are handled.
This is where things get really weird. During this Time Warp, Veldora also somehow is still there, and the imaginary space including all its contents too, despite no indication whatsoever from Rimuru's or Ciel's side that they'd be "taking the entire imaginary space along". That might not be an issue if we assume the imaginary space to be "inside" Rimuru, but that doesn't seem to be the case based on the following line:
I closed the『Imaginary Space』. Escaping from it was impossible until I died――Or, even after I died――he would never be freed. | ||
~ WN. ch. 248 |
This means that Imaginary Space might be something that exists even BEYOND Rimuru's Time Warp capabilities or at least on an equal level. Hence his Imaginary Space could be 5D, 6D or even 7D, depending on how the standard assumptions go. Based on Ciel being able to calculate all these things, I think her having immeasurable calculation speed in the EoS would be appropriate as well.
And this might admittedly be a bit of a long-shot, but based on these discoveries I wonder if Rimuru's statements about his thoughts and memories transcending space-time, might actually imply High-Godly Regenerationn with the now additional supporting evidence (i.e. no longer just "flowery language") and not just a simple connection with his other selves, but I might have to re-read these passages first to ensure I don't remember them wrong.
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^The number of Assumption and mistakes are pretty funny.
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Like...?
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A Funny exemple:
"Multiverse void has 4 spatial dimensions by default"
"Multiverse void has 4 spatial dimensions by default"
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I was very clear that I am not sure whether these assumptions work like that or not, hence I left a certain "range" for these things. But I did read several times on different threads that "4 spatial dimensions" is the basic assumption for Tier 2 "outside the space-time continuum universe bubbles", which would precisely be the case with Rimuru standing in the void after the universe (or whole multiversal "world") collapsed.
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Eh
What you implicitly say in your post is basically that after the destruction of Time and Space, the result of this, so the void, is 4-D.
That make no sense.
What you implicitly say in your post is basically that after the destruction of Time and Space, the result of this, so the void, is 4-D.
That make no sense.
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First off assuming the "normal" world Rimuru operated within until that moment was 4-D, i.e. 3 spatial + 1 temporal dimensions, then I mentioned 2 "extra ones" outside it.
First was the extra temporal dimension, which HAS to exist because the narrative just told us that the temporal axis from the Space-Time continuum just ceased to exist, at which point you'd need time travel superior to that concept of time itself to reverse it, hence a dimension above, a "higher dimensional time axis" which logically would be the one of the multiverse that Rimuru was inside at that time - which is seperate from the one within the space-time continuum bubbles. Hence we'd be at 3 spatial dimensions and 2 temporal ones, hence "5D" that Rimuru's Time Warp can traverse. I have yet to see any good rebuttal against THIS part at least.
Now the extra spatial dimension on top of that is something I entirely based on assumptions about "anything outside of the space-time continuums", which I heard in several threads is more often than not assumed to have 4 spatial dimensions, but it seems that reasoning is under some sort of silent dispute since I see many others vehemently denying it as well, hence I left it as an "optional" thing until I can see some sort of universal answer to it. Maybe I'll make a Q&A thread for it later to clarify it once and for all. But this would explain why "6D" is still part of Tier 2 to begin with.
First was the extra temporal dimension, which HAS to exist because the narrative just told us that the temporal axis from the Space-Time continuum just ceased to exist, at which point you'd need time travel superior to that concept of time itself to reverse it, hence a dimension above, a "higher dimensional time axis" which logically would be the one of the multiverse that Rimuru was inside at that time - which is seperate from the one within the space-time continuum bubbles. Hence we'd be at 3 spatial dimensions and 2 temporal ones, hence "5D" that Rimuru's Time Warp can traverse. I have yet to see any good rebuttal against THIS part at least.
Now the extra spatial dimension on top of that is something I entirely based on assumptions about "anything outside of the space-time continuums", which I heard in several threads is more often than not assumed to have 4 spatial dimensions, but it seems that reasoning is under some sort of silent dispute since I see many others vehemently denying it as well, hence I left it as an "optional" thing until I can see some sort of universal answer to it. Maybe I'll make a Q&A thread for it later to clarify it once and for all. But this would explain why "6D" is still part of Tier 2 to begin with.
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Space + Time = 4D
No Time + No Space = 0D
You don't need higher D to travel back into time from the void.
All those "proof" only rely on pretty big assumption and without more concerete feat, this will be rejected, you're indeed free to make Q&A or CRT about but from my point of view, it's probably a waste of time.
No Time + No Space = 0D
You don't need higher D to travel back into time from the void.
All those "proof" only rely on pretty big assumption and without more concerete feat, this will be rejected, you're indeed free to make Q&A or CRT about but from my point of view, it's probably a waste of time.
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Those assumptions you presented cannot be correct because they contradict actual feats. "travel back into time" doesn't work if the concept of time has literally been eradictated and the text itself supports that the timetravel along the axis of the (previously) existing space-time continuum that has been shown previously in the series would NOT work, hence what you suggest would still require some sort of feat to accomplish to reverse the non-existent state of time, which you didn't explain.
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Or he just created a new time axis to remplace the previous to travel back into time.
Without a mention of a higher D, it's a complete no, if you can't find at least a statement or something, then it can't be accepted. so i Disagree.
Or you should ask CP, i trust his sense of judgement regarding Tensura.
Without a mention of a higher D, it's a complete no, if you can't find at least a statement or something, then it can't be accepted. so i Disagree.
Or you should ask CP, i trust his sense of judgement regarding Tensura.
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That doesn't work. Else he could have simply created a blank universe and used that to travel back, but from the context of the discussion, such a method didn't seem possible either.
As a "supporting" argument, Time Warp is stated to TRANSCEND Space-Time, which on its own wouldn't be enough for anything as I have read several times by now. But it IS valid as a supporting statement (though to be fair, people have shown differing views on the "transcend" aspect as well).
CP doesn't seem too interested in WN changes anymore, which I can sympathize with since I am in a similar position most of the time (much prefer dealing only with the LN side of the verse and don't want to get involved with WN changes anymore), but this one issue is an exception for me that I have been trying to address for some time already, I just don't know how to formulate it well enough into a CRT since I am still not sure what the official stance is about much of the dimensionality stuff.
I have read VERY contradicting views on that matter up until now. For example your "the void is 0D" statement is not something I have seen mentioned anywhere before about the "outside of the space-time continuum bubbles", but instead I read several times that it's presumed to be 4D space by default with no specifications about time.
As a "supporting" argument, Time Warp is stated to TRANSCEND Space-Time, which on its own wouldn't be enough for anything as I have read several times by now. But it IS valid as a supporting statement (though to be fair, people have shown differing views on the "transcend" aspect as well).
CP doesn't seem too interested in WN changes anymore, which I can sympathize with since I am in a similar position most of the time (much prefer dealing only with the LN side of the verse and don't want to get involved with WN changes anymore), but this one issue is an exception for me that I have been trying to address for some time already, I just don't know how to formulate it well enough into a CRT since I am still not sure what the official stance is about much of the dimensionality stuff.
I have read VERY contradicting views on that matter up until now. For example your "the void is 0D" statement is not something I have seen mentioned anywhere before about the "outside of the space-time continuum bubbles", but instead I read several times that it's presumed to be 4D space by default with no specifications about time.
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Eh
Transcending Space-Time isn't 5-D, so the whole "time travel" can be justified because this ability transcend time, it's suggest to interpretation tho, but as i've already said, without more than that, Higher D is a no.
If you don't understand why the void after the destruction of the Universe is not 4-D but 0-D, then i can't help much.
there is other huge mistake in your first post but I'm done with this i guess, you should probably make an effort and make a CRT.
Transcending Space-Time isn't 5-D, so the whole "time travel" can be justified because this ability transcend time, it's suggest to interpretation tho, but as i've already said, without more than that, Higher D is a no.
If you don't understand why the void after the destruction of the Universe is not 4-D but 0-D, then i can't help much.
there is other huge mistake in your first post but I'm done with this i guess, you should probably make an effort and make a CRT.
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What? How does it make sense for several 4 dimensional "space-time continuum bubbles" to exist within a 0 dimensional space? That makes no sense.
In addition I have still not seen a single explanation for how a "dead" concept of time can be reached and utilized via ONLY Space-Time travel without relying on a higher dimensional time axis. Keep in mind that it wouldn't make sense for time itself to be subject to its own effects and if it's "eliminated for good" then simple time travel as it was done within its confines is not enough to bring it back.
An analogy to illustrate what I mean:
Imagine the Space-Time Continuum itself is a computer and any timetravel is a software modification. If the Space-Time Continuum breaks, then no matter how many times, in however many different ways you try to make software modifications to it - it will not work, because the framework itself is broken. If you wanted to fix it, all might perhaps repair the computer - or in the actual example "restore/resurrect that specific continuum of space-time", but there was no indication that Rimuru was capable of doing so (instead Ciel offered to create an entirely new "computer" (Space-Time Continuum) that's nigh-identical to the previous one including the software (history) itself), nor did Rimuru use that method. Instead what Rimuru did was use only software modification (timetravel) to fix the issue, which obviously shouldn't be possible - unless we assume that the reality the computer exists in itself is a simulation and/or has software-like traits itself, i.e. a "higher dimension of existence" compared to the software within the broken computer. Then from that higher dimensional point of view, the broken computer itself is just software (history/timeaxis) itself, just on a higher dimensional scale, and hence can be fixed via software modifcation (timetravel) of that level as well.
Urgh the analogy is a bit forced, but this is par of the course for things relating to higher-dimensional stuff. But as I mentioned, I have yet to see any OTHER explanation for how Rimuru was able to reverse a flow of time to affect even the existence/non-existence state of the (local) concept of time itself without relying on a higher dimensional timeaxis and without making completely wild assumptions not supported anywhere in the text like "Rimuru did actually revive the concept of time off-screen!" because Rimuru does not actually have shown any such feats either. Doubting or denying feats shouldn't be done by asspulling completely non-existent feats, that normally would be rejected for lack of proof too.
In addition I have still not seen a single explanation for how a "dead" concept of time can be reached and utilized via ONLY Space-Time travel without relying on a higher dimensional time axis. Keep in mind that it wouldn't make sense for time itself to be subject to its own effects and if it's "eliminated for good" then simple time travel as it was done within its confines is not enough to bring it back.
An analogy to illustrate what I mean:
Imagine the Space-Time Continuum itself is a computer and any timetravel is a software modification. If the Space-Time Continuum breaks, then no matter how many times, in however many different ways you try to make software modifications to it - it will not work, because the framework itself is broken. If you wanted to fix it, all might perhaps repair the computer - or in the actual example "restore/resurrect that specific continuum of space-time", but there was no indication that Rimuru was capable of doing so (instead Ciel offered to create an entirely new "computer" (Space-Time Continuum) that's nigh-identical to the previous one including the software (history) itself), nor did Rimuru use that method. Instead what Rimuru did was use only software modification (timetravel) to fix the issue, which obviously shouldn't be possible - unless we assume that the reality the computer exists in itself is a simulation and/or has software-like traits itself, i.e. a "higher dimension of existence" compared to the software within the broken computer. Then from that higher dimensional point of view, the broken computer itself is just software (history/timeaxis) itself, just on a higher dimensional scale, and hence can be fixed via software modifcation (timetravel) of that level as well.
Urgh the analogy is a bit forced, but this is par of the course for things relating to higher-dimensional stuff. But as I mentioned, I have yet to see any OTHER explanation for how Rimuru was able to reverse a flow of time to affect even the existence/non-existence state of the (local) concept of time itself without relying on a higher dimensional timeaxis and without making completely wild assumptions not supported anywhere in the text like "Rimuru did actually revive the concept of time off-screen!" because Rimuru does not actually have shown any such feats either. Doubting or denying feats shouldn't be done by asspulling completely non-existent feats, that normally would be rejected for lack of proof too.
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You basically said that the destruction of Time and Space leave a 4-D structure, that make zero sense at all. if you don't hunderstand why, then i can't help you, also, "space-time continuum bubbles" mean absolutly nothing.
That still not near to 5-D without concerete proof.
Well, at this point i'll just wait the CRT or what CP has to say about this, i trust his judgement about the verse (that thanks to him if the profiles aren"t messed up)
That still not near to 5-D without concerete proof.
Well, at this point i'll just wait the CRT or what CP has to say about this, i trust his judgement about the verse (that thanks to him if the profiles aren"t messed up)
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You mean to say several 4D constructs exist within an empty 0D space? I was sure that the basic assumptions on this wiki are that "the further you get away from the intial structure of the universe as we know it, the HIGHER the dimensions are", but you seem to claim the opposite here.
And I have proven my point already. I have seen ZERO alternative explanations for Rimuru's feat that don't require several baseless assumptions to work, the main issue being that I have yet to see any explanation for how, without a higher dimensional time axis, the conceptual non-existence of time can be surmounted to reach that specific conceptually non-existent timeaxis via only space-time travel and nothing else.
As a famous saying goes:
"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."
As for CP, he continuously has refused to comment on this issue up until now, if I remember correctly, or just missed it when I wrote about it. And when I asked other moderators their answers were mixed and didn't seem too sure themselves, sounding like "no and yes" or "yes and no" answers.
And I have proven my point already. I have seen ZERO alternative explanations for Rimuru's feat that don't require several baseless assumptions to work, the main issue being that I have yet to see any explanation for how, without a higher dimensional time axis, the conceptual non-existence of time can be surmounted to reach that specific conceptually non-existent timeaxis via only space-time travel and nothing else.
As a famous saying goes:
"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."
As for CP, he continuously has refused to comment on this issue up until now, if I remember correctly, or just missed it when I wrote about it. And when I asked other moderators their answers were mixed and didn't seem too sure themselves, sounding like "no and yes" or "yes and no" answers.
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Hmm. Nope that absolutly not true.NeoSuperior said:
Without even a mention of Higher-D, it's still a no. it can be explained with the ability that "Transcend Space-Time" tho, as long as the Concept of Time existed, you can reache it.
W e l l, then, i'am done with Tensei's debate, until CP answer or the creation of a CRT, i'll stay on my position.
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I'm so confused...
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Well, what would you expect from "higher dimensional hax" and trying to explain why a higher dimensional hax doesn't work in one situation, while another one does.
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I really don't remember Megiddo not being a Skill.
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Something I wanna ask. Isn't it strange that some of these Demon Lord class individuals have Demon Lord's Haki, and well, the actual Demon Lords, or some don't? Seems like a basic skill for them imo.
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Isn't that quite a broad statement to make when the only confirmed users of it are Rimuru and Diablo up to this point? Guess Milim too if she was just holding it back all the time (and likely Guy and some others as well).
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I guess you're right. Just feels weird that some of the Demon Lords like Leon, Milim, Guy, Dino, etc don't have it but people much weaker than them do.
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By the way, I meant the WN variants.
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Do you believe they should have it? It seems consistent with the other High 4-Cs.
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