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Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Downgrades (4kids)
- Thread starter Austrian-Man-Meat
- Start date
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Well then.
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Was this version of Shredder heavily amped compared to the one that was shown to cause the Moon eclipse?
What was the scenario regarding this feat?
Edit: Destroying two Earth-sized planet simultaneously would be just 2x the minimum requirement for Planet level, and thus not automatically guarantee said feat here qualifies for Large Planet level.
What was the scenario regarding this feat?
Edit: Destroying two Earth-sized planet simultaneously would be just 2x the minimum requirement for Planet level, and thus not automatically guarantee said feat here qualifies for Large Planet level.
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Not gonna lie that just seems like a typical villain says they're going to take over the world while a visual effect of him holding the earth in their hand is shown. If you can show the context of that scene proving he is indeed actually destroying planets in his palm and answer Lina's questions that might help better with his rating.
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If the above feat that Dark649 posted was done by an amped, amped Shredder
Why would he be gloating about how much power he has (showing off that he can destroy two Earth-sized planets), when he was able to do a feat comparable/stronger that that in a weaker form?
| Missing the fact that his amped amped feat is super casual. | ||
~ The Everlasting |
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Oh yeah, I'm well aware of the two Earth sized planets calc, which is why we just use Large Planet Level for 5-A and considering Multi-Planet Level and outdated rating. But as long as the energy required to cause an eclipse reaches 2.7 Yottatons, which I believe was the gravitaitional binding energy of Uranus? That would be baseline 5-A
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@Lina
Because that's a very clear demonstration of power, if he actually did it. And if he did, then the outlier argument becomes even less valid.
Because that's a very clear demonstration of power, if he actually did it. And if he did, then the outlier argument becomes even less valid.
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Except that the feat above is done by a super amped shredder, and not the base shredder that apparently moved the Moon without effort?
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Okay, and? I don't see what the contradiction is.
Both feats show that things on this cosmic scale are possible in this cartoon. And I would like for Dark / Cal to explain more about this Shredder.
Both feats show that things on this cosmic scale are possible in this cartoon. And I would like for Dark / Cal to explain more about this Shredder.
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- Thread starter
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I'd prefer having the video as compared to an image whose context is ambiguous. With that said, where is this feat of Shredder changing the Earth?
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- Thread starter
- #172
The video linked has neither the image you've shown before, or the Earth changing feat present.
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I won't have much time to argue this tonight. Can't see the video.
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And what I've pointed out before is that while there is no direct statement, literally everything else points to it being of his causation. Unless you want to believe the moon moved itself and aligned just right for an extended period of time during his rule of Japan. The assumption that it was just an anomaly relies on a series of consequences that just don't make sense.
Also, what's with the outlier argument? The logic used there ca downgrade virtually any non-shonen series with constant feats. Tengu Shredder has two major feats: The Eclipse and warping the Earth in his image. One is 5-A, the other is 5-B. Yes, he did the 5-B feat when at full power but that doesn't make the 5-A feat an outlier.
Also, what's with the outlier argument? The logic used there ca downgrade virtually any non-shonen series with constant feats. Tengu Shredder has two major feats: The Eclipse and warping the Earth in his image. One is 5-A, the other is 5-B. Yes, he did the 5-B feat when at full power but that doesn't make the 5-A feat an outlier.
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I'm inclined to side with Matt, Cal, Dark, and Ever on the issue.
It's plain strange to use the least likely scenario as a justification to denounce the most likely scenario. On top of this, the primary argument against the statistics consistently clings to the idea that every episode has to show a character's maximum power, when this is rarely the case in fiction unless it's for dramatic purposes.
As stated numerous times, it's ridiculous to expect this. Otherwise we'd be downgrading virtually every verse on the wiki.
I'd like to see the feats myself in a video, but I still trust Dark's, Cal's, and Matt's judgment given what was presented.
It's plain strange to use the least likely scenario as a justification to denounce the most likely scenario. On top of this, the primary argument against the statistics consistently clings to the idea that every episode has to show a character's maximum power, when this is rarely the case in fiction unless it's for dramatic purposes.
As stated numerous times, it's ridiculous to expect this. Otherwise we'd be downgrading virtually every verse on the wiki.
I'd like to see the feats myself in a video, but I still trust Dark's, Cal's, and Matt's judgment given what was presented.
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@Darkanine: Anomaly or not, the AoE effect for the 4 Dragons argument hardly works considering that the AoE effect usually applies to who have already shown feats of varying degrees of strengh (Characters who have performed stronger feats throughout the series performing a casually lesser feat), but in this case, 4 Dragons have shown us only one feat, so we should set their tiering based on that.
Also, how do you know that Shredder reality-warped the Moon? the calculation indicates that Shredder directly moved it with kinetic energy and not via reality warping, considering that we don't know whether he actually reality warped that Moon or not, him directly using his powers to move the Moon is more likely.
But then there is another issue. If you are saying that amped shredder using his full power to perform a 5-B feat, why would a weaker version of Shredder just casually producing a 5-A feat make any sense?
Especially the gap between 5-B and 5-A is close to 50 times.
Everything indicates that the moon moved because of him.
And has this been stated? How do you know this.
@Rep: Hmm...
With the case of a least likely scenario to the most likely scenario, the characters actually showing off thier maximum power actually applies here because in terms of feats, the 4 Dragons have shown us exactly one feat. This means that the single feat that is shown to us is the only we can go by when assigning a tier form them.
Lastly, this would not downgrade many verses, as many large scale feats have the user directly shown to us performing said feat, and not as ambiguous of a feat such as this one.
Also, how do you know that Shredder reality-warped the Moon? the calculation indicates that Shredder directly moved it with kinetic energy and not via reality warping, considering that we don't know whether he actually reality warped that Moon or not, him directly using his powers to move the Moon is more likely.
But then there is another issue. If you are saying that amped shredder using his full power to perform a 5-B feat, why would a weaker version of Shredder just casually producing a 5-A feat make any sense?
Especially the gap between 5-B and 5-A is close to 50 times.
Everything indicates that the moon moved because of him.
And has this been stated? How do you know this.
@Rep: Hmm...
With the case of a least likely scenario to the most likely scenario, the characters actually showing off thier maximum power actually applies here because in terms of feats, the 4 Dragons have shown us exactly one feat. This means that the single feat that is shown to us is the only we can go by when assigning a tier form them.
Lastly, this would not downgrade many verses, as many large scale feats have the user directly shown to us performing said feat, and not as ambiguous of a feat such as this one.
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Are we still on the AoE topic?
Whether or not he reality warped the moon, he still moved it. The calc is the kinetic energy of the moving moon. He didn't teleport it or make a new moon. He moved it.
The Outlier argument, again, makes no sense. You're arguing it makes no sense for him to perform a Planet level feat when full powered. You're acting like he struggled to do it, he just "did" it. He had no reason to do this no a scale greater than Earth. Narrative wise, why would he do this to affect other planets as well? It would't add anything to the story at all. Arguing it makes it an outlier is stupid. It's like saying "All of MetalGreymon's feats are huge outliers, because WarGreymon struggled to hold a skyscraper before".
Whether or not he reality warped the moon, he still moved it. The calc is the kinetic energy of the moving moon. He didn't teleport it or make a new moon. He moved it.
The Outlier argument, again, makes no sense. You're arguing it makes no sense for him to perform a Planet level feat when full powered. You're acting like he struggled to do it, he just "did" it. He had no reason to do this no a scale greater than Earth. Narrative wise, why would he do this to affect other planets as well? It would't add anything to the story at all. Arguing it makes it an outlier is stupid. It's like saying "All of MetalGreymon's feats are huge outliers, because WarGreymon struggled to hold a skyscraper before".
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Then that makes the outlier argument even less valid.Dark649 said:
I agree with Ant that's the matter is mostly settled.
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