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Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Downgrades (4kids)

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Austrian-Man-Meat

Austrian-Man-Meat

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Tengu Shredder is rated as large planet level for the following feat , however, I have two major problems with it; and they are as follows:

  • It is not a feat, I say this because nothing directly states Shredder is the one who caused a eclipse; nothing even states how he went around achieving it either, so as to how someone would find a way to calculate it is beyond me. The only statement we recieve is "Shredders betrayal plunged Japan into an age of darkness" this only proves a certain trope is at work instead of Shredder displaying his power.
  • It is a severe outlier even if it were a feat, keep in mind this large planet level "feat" was performed when Tengu Shredder had yet to amp up to perform a feat which involved changing the face of the Earth which would be millions of times weaker than what was calculated (assuming it wasn't a result of hax and could actually contribute to his physical statistics). There exists no other feat in the series which would come even remotely close to what was calculated. Meaning, it is an anomaly.
 
IIRC Shredder (unshielded or unarmored at that) could tank the subatomic implosion of a giant science facility, so we could scale their durability from that
 
Your only argument against this is a series of freak consequences and anomalies that happen in a specific order, instead of the far more logical chain of events. Frankly, it's dumb to assume he didn't cause the eclipse when:

  • The Moon moved just moments before he conquered Japan, implying he did it to strike fear into his enemies.
  • It lasted during his entire rule, which was implied to be at the very least, weeks, if not months or years, given the intense training the Tribunal had to go through in order to stop Oroku.
  • It only subsided when he was sealed away, which again, was weeks, months or even years later.
You're assuming that the Moon moved itself at massively hypersonic speeds and kept in place for months or years, which is a leap in logic that baffles me.

It's not an outlier. He warped the entire Earth without even trying. Using this argument is like saying "Vegeta's planet bust is an outlier because his next best feat at the time was destroying a mountain".
 
Darkanine said:
It's not an outlier. He warped the entire Earth without even trying. Using this argument is like saying "Vegeta's planet bust is an outlier because his next best feat at the time was destroying a mountain".
Click to expand...
This is like base level Vegeta performing a feat which surpasses any other feat he has (including saiyan transformations etc) by the millions.
 
@AMM

Missing the fact that his amped amped feat is super casual.

It's like saying Frieza's Namek feat is an outlier because of his Planet Vegeta feat.
 
Can someone link both feats please, Shredder creating the eclipse and Shredder Reality Warping the planet.
 
"The Moon moved just moments before he conquered Japan, implying he did it to strike fear into his enemies."

How would the eclipse appearing then imply that, and it's not like you have any evidence (like a statement) for that either. If he wanted to strike fear into the masses he has plenty of more effective ways of doing so seeing as he would be 5-A and all. It's quite the massive waste of energy.

"You're assuming that the Moon moved itself at massively hypersonic speeds and kept in place for months or years, which is a leap in logic that baffles me."

And you're assuming a character who has never come close to this level of power (even when he was amped to such a degree the people who previously beat him couldnt even beat his lowly minions) caused an eclipse through methods unknown to us, which we also don't even really know if it should scale to his physical stats because of a scene which has an obvious presence of this trope . You say you have your troubles regarding the freak circumstances but my response is what's with the lack of suspension of disbelief? We don't really shift our eyes much at physics being violated due to faster-than-light speeds but all of a sudden is it not appropriate for the teenage mutant ninja turtles?

"Missing the fact that his amped amped feat is super casual."

Speaking of, do you know where I can find the feat in question? It's not linked on the profile and I don't have any hint to go from on how I should find it.
 
Your only arguments seem to be "it's just a trope" (Which isn't really an argument) and "it's inconsistent" (Even though you haven't brought up feats to make it an actual outlier).
 
The real question is, has Shredder needed to struggle on a consistent basis to destroy buildings or small things like that? If he has then that would make the solar eclipse an outlier.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
The real question is, has Shredder needed to struggle on a consistent basis to destroy buildings or small things like that? If he has then that would make the solar eclipse an outlier.
Click to expand...
Shredder survived the subatomic implosion of an entire science facility, without his armor on too IIRC.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
He destroyed cars with a wave of his hand on the way to the Baxter building. He is almost always incredibly casual when doing just about anything.
Click to expand...
Hmmm... Well as long as he isn't constantly portaid vastly weaker then his Planet Level+ Eclispe Feat and needs to try for much smaller things, then it isn't an outlier if everything he does is casual.
 
I agree with the OP. It is a obvious massive outlier even if he did perform this feat. As mentioned above shredder struggles to destroy buildings. And there aint no "muh ki kontrol" to defend this outlier.

How anyone is defending this is mind boggling to say the least.

When people use shredder casually destroying cars as a reason for why this is not a outlier you know this is wrong.
 
Darkanine makes a lot of sense. It is obvious that Oroku moved the moon if it moved to cause the eclipse right before he conquered Japan, lasted during his whole rule, and only returned to normal when he was defeated.

@Aizen

Saying that it is "mind bobbling" isn't an argument.
 
FanofRPGs said:
Shredder survived the subatomic implosion of an entire science facility, without his armor on too IIRC.
Click to expand...
Reed Richards is High 7-A by survivng the sub-atomic destruction of his suit. This could wield Tier 6.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
FanofRPGs said:
Shredder survived the subatomic implosion of an entire science facility, without his armor on too IIRC.
Click to expand...
Reed Richards is High 7-A by survivng the sub-atomic destruction of his suit. This could wield Tier 6.
Click to expand...
Nevermind, the feat is an outlier then.
 
It's not an outlier. It's a good feat, and should be calculated. It would give further credence to him being Tier 5 if he tanked a Tier 6 explosion without his armor.
 
In either case, how exactly does moving the moon via unknown means and changing the Earth (need the scene for context) equate to large planet level physical stats?
 
The profile lists him as having Magic, Reality Warping, and Energy Manipulation. Any feat done with either of those could scale to his physical Attack Potency.
 
Someone linked me the episode where he supposedly survive the explosion and apperantly he was on life support after. Their fore if he wasn't saved via Unkownnown or however he surived(since we never see how he survived the explosion) I can only conclude that at MOST he is whatever a small subatomic implosion would get. And the large planet level feat is an outlier.
 
I don't think that the people arguing against this even realize that this isn't the Shredder from Seasons 1 - 4, nor does it scale to the turtles in base during seasons 1 - 4. This is a separate, much more powerful character from the later seasons. The turtles only scale to him after various power ups.
 
There's three Shredders in the series.

Utrom Shredder, the main one and the one in the video (who btw, has a 2-A feat via prep, so 5-A isn't new for the series)

Cyber Shredder, a robot Shredder they encounter in the future (there's a series dedicated to that)

and

Tengu Shredder, the original Shredder/Oroku Saki who was a human turned demon, and inspired the Utrom one.
 
Darkanine said:
You're assuming that the Moon moved itself at massively hypersonic speeds and kept in place for months or years, which is a leap in logic that baffles me.
Click to expand...
This reminds me of an argument related to a Castlevania Eclipse feat.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
The profile lists him as having Magic, Reality Warping, and Energy Manipulation. Any feat done with either of those could scale to his physical Attack Potency.
Click to expand...
How is that the case?
 
@AMM

The Reality Warping doesn't come out of nowhere. It comes from the power of the character, a power which he logically should be capable of applying in physical attacks, specially when the former feat is done super casually while in the later he is actually putting effort.
 
Cal is correct. Theirs a total of four shredders in the TMNT 2003 series.

  • Utrom Shredder. The main antagonist of the first two or three series. He's actually an alien in a robot suit.
  • Karai Shredder. His adoptive daughter. Irrelevant here.
  • Cyber Shredder. Antagonist of Fast Forward.
  • Tengu Shredder. This is the original Oraku Saki. He's wickedly powerful, able to manhandle enemies who are comparable to Utrom Shredder without trying, so trying to apply Utrom's feats to him tp say it's an outlier is inane. If you guys are going to say it's an outlier, at least do better research.
Even then. AoE =/- Attack Potency. This is basic stuff, guys.
 
I trust Dark's judgment since he is the one who seems to have watched the whole show, and has the most knowledge of it.
 
I still completely agree with DarkAnine, Matthew, The Everlasting, and Cal. The Chrono Trigger cast are Large Planet Level due to similar feats that Queen Zeal preformed. Not to mention we recently upgraded the MLP god tiers due to moving the Sun despite their best detruction feats being Island Level? Although, I do question what happened Calamity Ganon's moon moving feat. But anyway, I see no reason to downgrade Tengu Shredder to anything below 5-A.
 
A quick tl;dr of this thread:

The Moon does some weird stuff so we're scaling that to Shredder even though the only feat that ever comes close has him massively amped and there's no statement or indication by any of the characters that Shredder himself is responsible for moving the Moon

Going by this I guess we should upgrade John Redcor from King of the Hill because every time he starts talking about his culture the wind starts blowing even if he's inside which means it's totally a legit power and not just something done for comedic effect.

Or maybe Arthur should be upgraded to City level because a thunderstorm showed up once he got sad on his family trip and then magically disappeared once everything turned around for the better.
 
@Darkanine why didn't you start off with saying there are different Shredders that would have likely ended this discussion quickly. The only reason I ask if he has consistenly struggled to do weaker things was because I thought there was only one.
 
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