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Tatsumaki vs Goku

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"I just mentioned that if someone didn't use actual BFR in series, there nothing to stop them from do it in VSbattle, same as hit'n'run."

Yes but it also means as per SBA, they're in-character so if they've never showed a large scale of tactical thinking then there's no reason to suspect they'd suddenly switch gears to do such a thing.
 
Akreious said:
"I just mentioned that if someone didn't use actual BFR in series, there nothing to stop them from do it in VSbattle, same as hit'n'run."
Yes but it also means as per SBA, they're in-character so if they've never showed a large scale of tactical thinking then there's no reason to suspect they'd suddenly switch gears to do such a thing.
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Isn't there just no room for any fight 1v1 for her? I mean always when she's fight against significantly strong enemy he can't just run from it because this enemy will attack everyone else. And second they all just much faster than her.

@Calaca So how much stronger do you need to be to affect on KHH? Oh, she can affect Goku himself, and make him lose concentration.
 
Maraderchik said:
@Calaca So how much stronger do you need to be to affect on KHH? Oh, she can affect Goku himself, and make him lose concentration.
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How? Goku's still 4x stronger and when he uses a Super KHH his power increases by a large extent. Goku wasn't able to stand against Raditz before using the KHH which made Raditz flinch.
 
"Isn't there just no room for any fight 1v1 for her?"

Not really. She simply lacks any good way to overcome Goku's 4x AP advantage and sheer force of will. Her AP already comes from her TK so any arguments that her telekinesis can throw Goku around and such is tossed out the window since Goku himself is 4x stronger than said Telekinesis.

"I mean always when she's fight against significantly strong enemy he can't just run from it because this enemy will attack everyone else. And second they all just much faster than her."

The stronger the enemy, the more a hit and run tactic should work better. Even if they're much faster, moving somewhat is better than moving none at all which she failed to even attempt to do so, or use TK to move the citizens out of the warzone.

"So how much stronger do you need to be to affect on KHH? Oh, she can affect Goku himself, and make him lose concentration."

The Kamehameha as seen in the Raditz Saga unquantifiably boosts someone's AP temporarily. So unquantifiably stronger than Goku himself; something Tatsumaki is wholly incapable of doing in this battle btw.

Also, what concentration? Flipping him around and such? He already does backflips and sideflips on a hourly basis with no signs of losing concentration so that's not possible. Throwing him around? How is that any different from just getting hit by a sufficiently stronger source like he's always taken with no damage to focus at all?
 
Calaca Vs said:
Maraderchik said:
@Calaca So how much stronger do you need to be to affect on KHH? Oh, she can affect Goku himself, and make him lose concentration.
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How? Goku's still 4x stronger and when he uses a Super KHH his power increases by a large extent. Goku wasn't able to stand against Raditz before using the KHH which made Raditz flinch.
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She did it against monster Garou, Saitama and Golden Sperm, so i didn't see particular problem to do it against someone with just x4 strength advantage.

>Also, what concentration?

Like this for example. You can't use KHH if you can't move. These guys vastly stronger than this version of Goku.

https://s3.********.org/data/4dd38ef896825f7944878844dfeb5956/x12.jpg

https://s5.********.org/data/84ae6b0a96402246cb222f380f495e9b/x10.jpg

>The stronger the enemy, the more a hit and run tactic should work better. 'Even if they're much faster, moving somewhat is better than moving none at all.

Sure, especially if you cannot see how fast your opponent move.

>which she failed to even attempt to do so, or use TK to move the citizens out of the warzone.

Technically she did that once. And in the MA arc there just no point in running from Garou or other monsters, former is just capable move faster than everyone else on the stage and latter is just not strong enough (to the moment when Black Sperm become Golden) to do something like this.
 
Akreious said:
Not really. She simply lacks any good way to overcome Goku's 4x AP advantage and sheer force of will. Her AP already comes from her TK so any arguments that her telekinesis can throw Goku around and such is tossed out the window since Goku himself is 4x stronger than said Telekinesis.

The stronger the enemy, the more a hit and run tactic should work better. Even if they're much faster, moving somewhat is better than moving none at all which she failed to even attempt to do so, or use TK to move the citizens out of the warzone.
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Ok, I'm going to address these two points here. Firstly, why is this whole '4x her AP' thing being brought up all the time? Her feat, which was pretty much baseline, was done incredibly casually. Secondly, she's affected people with her telekinesis that are FAR stronger than her, while being depowered, very weakened and exhausted (Case in point; Monster Garou before he adapted). So no, TK is still a very legitimate argument.

Let's look at each of these fights, case by case.

Vs Golden Sperm: She was stomping his previous form and then suddenly got blitzed by Golden Sperm. Not only was she caught off-guard; this was a very dangerous situation where if she had tried to run, other heroes and a hostage could be killed by Golden Sperm.

Vs Monster Garou: Same thing on a much greater scale, plus she was so exhausted that she fainted from over-exertion.

Vs Saitama: A low A-Class hero who should be fodder to her. Not to mention that she was pissed off and not prepared to think tactically, AND Saitama was gripping her arm for the majority of the fight from what I remember.
 
Her feat was done casually, doesn't mean at full power she is 4x stronger than that.

She can use TK on her opponents, but Goku has a very strong will so he'll resist it.

This thread seems to be going in circles.
 
AKM sama said:
Her feat was done casually, doesn't mean at full power she is 4x stronger than that.
She can use TK on her opponents, but Goku has a very strong will so he'll resist it.

This thread seems to be going in circles.
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Grace has started hours ago and the argues about Tats's win aren't enough to grant anything.

This'll be over in 14 hours.
 
While I'm with you that Wukong wins (yes, I did that on purpose), we can't discount votes because they have different opinions.
 
We dont give characters stronger AP just because a feat is done casually. Like Saitama is only around baseline planet. Also the attack that Goku scales from only scratches him a little so he's also unquantifiably stronger.
 
That's not true. Tatsumaki is only Low 6-B because her High 6-C feat was done extremely casually (though it was so close to baseline anyway). Saitama is baseline planet level because we don't know if he's a casual planet buster or not; we only have statements that don't say one way or the other.
 
Point is, just because someone does something casually doesnt mean they're massively stronger than that.
 
Akreious said:
Point is, just because someone does something casually doesnt mean they're massively stronger than that.
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True but it does make a difference when one character is casually 6-b, and the other is 6-b at full power
 
No. It doesnt. You're giving Tatsu way too much of a benefit of a doubt. Goku came out with mere scratches against the attack he scales to. My ass is that full power.

Also it's a difference when one character is casually BASELINE 6-B while another is FOUR TIMES at max power.
 
Dude we said that for hours. Tatsu's TK isn't effective against strong-willed people.
 
Just noting, her AP can be below Goku's and she can still deflect stuff. The utilixation of force on the side of the ki blasts is still good for deflection, as it does not have to counter the forward force imparted by the blast and all she needs to do is shove them away from her, not try to meet them head on and throw back. Shoving everything to the outside really shouldn't be that difficult, as she doesn't need to oppose the vector of goku's shots, instead instating a vector of her own to move them in a direction that they should freely go to.
 
Yes it is, it worked on plenty of people with strong wills. Genos, monster association, plenty of s class, Monster Garou. Goku is no different.
 
If he has flight and superior AP, it would run into trouble working.
 
Wokistan said:
Just noting, her AP can be below Goku's and she can still deflect stuff. The utilixation of force on the side of the ki blasts is still good for deflection, as it does not have to counter the forward force imparted by the blast and all she needs to do is shove them away from her, not try to meet them head on and throw back. Shoving everything to the outside really shouldn't be that difficult, as she doesn't need to oppose the vector of goku's shots, instead instating a vector of her own to move them in a direction that they should freely go to.
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She also has a passive barrier which basically does this.
 
Doesn't need to. All he needs is some way to control his movement or propel himself in a direction without a wall or ground. Doesn't he have that weird cloud thing?
 
Telekenesis isn't really something you resist, you just outdo it in terms of lifting strength or AP. If he can propel himself in a direction, due to his superiority in terms of AP Tats wouldn't be able to mantain total control over his movement. She can impart a force on him with it, but not a strong enough one to impede him. Goku's pretty smart in terms of fighting too, so him figuring out how to mitigate this disadvantage isn't a large leap in logic.
 
Speed equalized covers Nimbus.

And was Fubuki who stated that TK doesn't work so good in enemies with strong will. Genos is fodder no matter the will. Garou was stronger and strong-willed so os Goku.

And no. I already explained why she won't deflect Goku's ki attacks easily. First of all he doesn't spam it. And stronger enemies has been shown struggling to stop the KHH or similar attacks.
 
Can't she just move out of the way of the KHH, or nudge it from the side so she doesn't have to go against it's AP? Always wondered why more people in dragon Ball didn't just go for a quick dodge and hitting their opponent during endlag, as opposed to trying to beam struggle.
 
Garou was stronger than Tats, and still got restrained temporarily before he adapted to it. Goku is far weaker than him.
 
Wokistan said:
Telekenesis isn't really something you resist, you just outdo it in terms of lifting strength or AP. If he can propel himself in a direction, due to his superiority in terms of AP Tats wouldn't be able to mantain total control over his movement. She can impart a force on him with it, but not a strong enough one to impede him. Goku's pretty smart in terms of fighting too, so him figuring out how to mitigate this disadvantage isn't a large leap in logic.
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HMMMMMMMMMMM x4 and x700 which one is bigger?... I'm just tired with this crap about his AP advantage that counter TK.

@Calaca you just comparing Goku Low 6-B with High 6-A Garou... it's not about freaking strong will. All opponents who resist Tats TK was much stronger than Goku.

This conversation just going in same way that arguing about how Meliodas counter Boros' blast which is 125 times stronger than Meliodas show he can counter...

>And stronger enemies has been shown struggling to stop the KHH or similar attacks.

The problem is, it was different version of Goku and it's just hard to compare which on have problem and why.
 
If she overpowered saitama resisting it with tier 5 force she would be tier 5. Obviously this is not the case, and scaling things to saitama is not really a good idea since he generally doesn't give a shit. TK scales to her AP/lifting strength, she doesn't suddenly just pull a bunch of random power out of her ass.
 
@Wokistan, besides Saitama's case there was 2 times she capable of restrict movements or even slightly harm more powerful beings than Goku.
 
Maraderchik said:
@Wokistan, besides Saitama's case there was 2 times she capable of restrict movements or even slightly harm more powerful beings than Goku.
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Such as?
 
Wokistan said:
If she overpowered saitama resisting it with tier 5 force she would be tier 5. Obviously this is not the case, and scaling things to saitama is not really a good idea since he generally doesn't give a shit. TK scales to her AP/lifting strength, she doesn't suddenly just pull a bunch of random power out of her ass.
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No it's just tk, it kinda ignores strength
 
The Wright Way said:
Maraderchik said:
@Wokistan, besides Saitama's case there was 2 times she capable of restrict movements or even slightly harm more powerful beings than Goku.
Click to expand...
Such as?
Click to expand...
https://s5.********.org/data/84ae6b0a96402246cb222f380f495e9b/x10.jpg

https://s5.********.org/data/afa0fc5c62a01bcedfb3210e44026a2b/x14.jpg
 
No it's just tk, it kinda ignores strength

There are a lot of instances of characters resisting TK with strength. Also, her tier comes from a feat performed with TK.
 
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