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Tatsumaki vs Goku

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I vote Tatsumaki due to chi manipulation and being able to dodge and influence his energy attacks away from her.
 
Goku have homing ki blast or why did you bring his ability to direct his ki after he throw the blast?...

Btw, voting for Tats due range advantage and ways to deflect all Goku's range attacks, and keep the distance while doing so. On the other hand she can attack while moving, so it's literally endless hit'n'run fight.

And if i'm not mistake Tats TK didn't work only on Saitama, who's much stronger than Tatsumaki (and this version of Goku).
 
Maraderchik said:
Goku have homing ki blast or why did you bring his ability to direct his ki after he throw the blast?...

Btw, voting for Tats due range advantage and ways to deflect all Goku's range attacks, and keep the distance while doing so. On the other hand she can attack while moving, so it's literally endless hit'n'run fight.

And if i'm not mistake Tats TK didn't work only on Saitama, who's much stronger than Tatsumaki (and this version of Goku).
Click to expand...
Half of these reasonings make no sense. Goku only uses his Kamehameha as a finisher so she isnt redirecting crap. Her ranged advantage is useless due to being unable to stop goku from bullrushing her due to his indomitable strong will which is basically a textbook requirement tobeat Tatsumaki. Her attacks wont slow Goku down enough and she underestimates people way too much to use a tactic such as hit and run.

No, her telekinesis didnt work on Saitama because his will was too strong. This is why it's one of her weaknesses. Conversely, you need to provide evidence Tatsumaki can TK people way stronger than her as goku here is 4x stronger. Oh and also he has Nimbus to quickly catch up to her so even if she did do hit and run, Goku wouldnt really be all that deterred
 
AKM sama said:
I don't know about the vote count but I can definitely say that the votes for Tats due to "psychic power", "ripping apart Goku", "Aura manipulation", "BFR", "FRA", "deflecting Goku's ki blasts", etc should not be counted.
They are either wrong or lack sufficient explanation.
Click to expand...
So due to this comment and the previous long debate the votes of Arceus0x (psychic hax), Ricsi-viragosi (TK argument), Shadow Warrior (this wasn't counted for the OP but someone added it to the vote count later), Maraderchik (BFR), GyroNutz (psychic hax and redirect ki-blast argue), ArrogantShmuck (was a FRA), Blahblah1975 (deflecting attacks Goku only uses when he's sure they're gonna hit), SuperGraphitte (also FRA), AquaWaifu (used the reasons previously debunked) are no longer valid. Quangotjoker vote is valid. Maraderchik's second vote shouldn't be counted due to arguing something already debunked and OOC battle tactics for Tats.

Goku: 7 (Dzhindzolia, Therefir, ApiesDeathbyLazors, Calaca, Epiccheev, TheRustyOne, Jobbo, [Xantospoc?], [Cal?]).

Tatsu: 1 (Quangotjoker). Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
> Goku only uses his Kamehameha as a finisher so she isnt redirecting crap.

Umm, so Goku ki manip better than Tats TK or what exactly is the point of this? There no reason why she can't just direct his Kamehameha to the ground for example.

>Her ranged advantage is useless due to being unable to stop goku from bullrushing her due to his indomitable strong will which is basically a textbook requirement tobeat Tatsumaki.

You know, usually you didn't wait while your opponent just come close and hit you. Especially when you can simultaneously attack and move.

>Her attacks wont slow Goku down enough and she underestimates people way too much to use a tactic such as hit and run.

It's just normal tactic, if you can't stomp your enemy you just kite it and use hit'n'run to the end of the fight.

>No, her telekinesis didnt work on Saitama because his will was too strong.

Dude, he's literally 59.000.000.000 (hopefully im not mistake anything)stronger, his will power doesn't even matter on this scales. She can use her TK on Golden Sperm pretty fine (almost take his head, well it's kinda exaggerated but you get the point), and he's should be much stronger (like 700 times stronger) than her.

> Oh and also he has Nimbus to quickly catch up to her so even if she did do hit and run, Goku wouldnt really be all that deterred

They're have same speed, why would he catch her?
 
After hearing the arguments for Goku having the AP advantage, having a strong enough will to resist Chi/Aura manipulation, and Tatsumaki underestimating him due to her arrogance, I'm convinced that my reasoning for voting Tatsumaki was wrong and I'll switch to Goku.
 
@Calaca

Why my vote shouldn't be counted? It's pretty much the same with Quangotjoker.

Btw, voting for Tats due range advantage and ways to deflect all Goku's range attacks, and keep the distance while doing so.
Someone can just bring any evidence that her TK didn't work because of strong will?... In the same page when Fubuki thinks why TK didn't work on Saitama, Tatsumaki mentioned that it doesn't work on Garou and Golden Sperm, why someone like Golden Sperm have any strong will in the first place?

I mean she's can't use it because of VAST difference in strength not x4 but x700.
 
Maraderchik said:
Umm, so Goku ki manip better than Tats TK or what exactly is the point of this? There no reason why she can't just direct his Kamehameha to the ground for example.

It's just normal tactic, if you can't stomp your enemy you just kite it and use hit'n'run to the end of the fight.

Dude, he's literally 59.000.000.000 (hopefully im not mistake anything)stronger, his will power doesn't even matter on this scales. She can use her TK on Golden Sperm pretty fine (almost take his head, well it's kinda exaggerated but you get the point), and he's should be much stronger (like 700 times stronger) than her.

They're have same speed, why would he catch her?
Click to expand...
She can't do it easily. Take Raditz as an example. He needed to stop Goku's KHH instead of deflecting it and Raditz was stronger than the KHH.

Tatsumaki isn't the kind of fighter who runs from the opponent to spam. It's out-of-character as far as we know because she didn't do it before for the vastly advantage she has over her enemies. On top of that she underestimate her opponents very much and IIRC she can't sense Goku's power.

Did you see Tats's profile? One of her weaknesses is that she can't use her powers at full strength against strong will opponents.

Nimbus grants Goku flight to close the range gap. Speed equalized give the perfect chance to let Goku close distances.

Maraderchik said:
@Calaca
Why my vote shouldn't be counted? It's pretty much the same with Quangotjoker.
Click to expand...
I already explained in that comment.

If you disagree with the profiles then make a CRT.
 
Why is 'Tats' hax won't work due to willpower' ANY different than the whole 'DB hax doesn't work on stronger opponents' thing which we don't count in vs battles?

Goku doesn't have a resistance so he should be affected
 
Yes, and 'DB hax doesn't work on stronger opponents' is a weakness of the hax, not a resistance of the user, but we treat it differently here.
 
>If you disagree with the profiles then make a CRT.

i'm already made one but to no avail, and i'm kinda dispirited by this, because looks like you must be well known user to make a CRT which will be accepted..

>Nimbus grants Goku flight to close the range gap. Speed equalized give the perfect chance to let Goku close distances.

If two target will move in the same direction with same speed, how one of them can shortened distance to another?

>Tatsumaki isn't the kind of fighter who runs from the opponent to spam.

Because all her opponent was stomped by her. The only moment when she had troubles is MA ark.

>She can't do it easily. Take Raditz as an example. He needed to stop Goku's KHH instead of deflecting it and Raditz was stronger than the KHH.

Sorry i didn't know about this so can you give some link on this fight?
 
Tats's powers don't work very well against strong willed opponents. It's not Goku's resistance to mindhax or stuff but a weakness from Tats's powers due to Goku's strong will. IDK where are you trying to go. That'd work exact the same against any strong willed character in any verse.
 
You know, repeating yourself doesn't exactly answer my argument.

Given DB hax as an example, we don't treat hax 'weaknesses' like that
 
Her power didn't work well 3 times, and it was opponents who's 700 and in Saitama's case 59.000.000.000 times stronger than her, cmon.
 
Maraderchik said:
i'm already made one but to no avail, and i'm kinda dispirited by this, because looks like you must be well known user to make a CRT which will be accepted..

If two target will move in the same direction with same speed, how one of them can shortened distance to another?

Because all her opponent was stomped by her. The only moment when she had troubles is MA ark.

Sorry i didn't know about this so can you give some link on this fight?
Click to expand...
Actually i'm not. I think I'm almost an unknown character here. ovo

They aren't gonna move forever. And I don't think Tatsu'll move and attack at the same time before she gets damage from Goku and realized he's much stronger.

Does she spam range in the moment you quote? That'd be helpful to determine if she'd do it against Goku.

https://youtu.be/3H9FV9E9wpo?t=148

The same happens when Goku attacks Frieza with a KHH. The latter only stopped the attack and was VASTLY superior to that.

GyroNutz said:
You know, repeating yourself doesn't exactly answer my argument.

Given DB hax as an example, we don't treat hax 'weaknesses' like that
Click to expand...
I don't get your point actually. Sorry. If you're talking about DB's hax resistance due to power I think that was discussed in a CRT where was stated only EE scales to power levels. Goku doesn't have Mind Manip Resistance due to Vegeta's resistance for example. Is that what are you talking about?
 
>Actually i'm not. I think I'm almost an unknown character here. ovo

Umm, what?

>Does she spam range in the moment you quote?

Again what? ~_~ She allways use range attacks, or just spam with everything that lay around.

>https://youtu.be/3H9FV9E9wpo?t=148

Isn't Raditz just tank KHH? And looks like Goku can't move while controlling KHH and he must concentrate... so it's kinda disadvantageous..


https://s5.********.org/data/84ae6b0a96402246cb222f380f495e9b/x10.jpg

Tats TK work on Garou, not so well but still.

https://s5.********.org/data/afa0fc5c62a01bcedfb3210e44026a2b/x14.jpg

Same with Golden Sperm.
 
Stuff like that yeah. Could you link the CRT please, cause I still see people use the DB hax argument a lot.

Also worth mentioning that Tatsumaki was able to hold off Monster Garou (before he adapted) who's hundreds of times stronger and has a similar level of willpower to Goku, with her telekinesis. She did this while being depowered, extremely weakened and exhausted. I don't see how her telekinesis won't work here
 
Maraderchik said:
Umm, what?

Again what? ~_~ She allways use range attacks, or just spam with everything that lay around.

Isn't Raditz just tank KHH? And looks like Goku can't move while controlling KHH and he must concentrate... so it's kinda disadvantageous..

https://s5.********.org/data/84ae6b0a96402246cb222f380f495e9b/x10.jpg

Tats TK work on Garou, not so well but still.

https://s5.********.org/data/afa0fc5c62a01bcedfb3210e44026a2b/x14.jpg

Same with Golden Sperm.
Click to expand...
I said I'm not too known in this forum. That's all.

Let me correct the statement. I don't think Tatsu is the kind of fighter who hit n' run from the opponent.

The calcs are useful but aren't answering my request. We need calcs to prove she spams range and run from stronger opponents (like MG or BS).

The point in the video isn't Goku homing the KHH but Raditz stopping instead of deflecting it. Raditz was much stronger than Goku and considerably stronger than the KHH. Same happens with Frieza in Namek.

GyroNutz said:
Stuff like that yeah. Could you link the CRT please, cause I still see people use the DB hax argument a lot.

Also worth mentioning that Tatsumaki was able to hold off Monster Garou (before he adapted) who's hundreds of times stronger and has a similar level of willpower to Goku, with her telekinesis. She did this while being depowered, extremely weakened and exhausted. I don't see how her telekinesis won't work here
Click to expand...
I'll look for it. Don't know what happened to the thread anyway. AFAIK we can't scale hax resistance to power in DB and I saw this rule in a lot of threads.

It's not that her TK won't work. Her powers aren't so effectives against strong willed opponents, that's all. MG is a good example of it yeah.
 
>spams range and run from stronger opponents

All opponents stronger than her at the same time vastly FASTER than her. There just no speed equalization in OPM to encourage this kind of tactic.

>The point in the video isn't Goku homing the KHH but Raditz stopping instead of deflecting it. Raditz was much stronger than Goku and considerably stronger than the KHH. Same happens with Frieza in Namek.

But can he deflect it? Why he run from KHH in the first place, it's pretty bad example of his ability to deflect anything?
 
Maraderchik said:
All opponents stronger than her at the same time vastly FASTER than her.

But can he deflect it? Why he run from KHH in the first place, it's pretty bad example of his ability to deflect anything?
Click to expand...
But does she run from them while attacking?

It's an example of how a stronger enemy can deflect the attack. Tatsu's 4x weaker so she couldn't do it so easily.

And even Frieza stopped the KHH when chapters before he reflected Vegeta's strongest attack with no much effort. And it was stated in the manga Frieza was nearly half of his full power when Goku KHH him.
 
Tatsumaki is too arrogant to hit and run. She didn't do it against Saitama, she didn't do it against neither Garou nor Black Sperm. Her main strategy is to overwhelm her opponents and crush them into nothingness. I don't remember her ever running away against an opponent
 
>But does she run from them while attacking? >Tatsumaki is too arrogant to hit and run. She didn't do it against Saitama, she didn't do it against neither Garou nor Black Sperm. Her main strategy is to overwhelm her opponents and crush them into nothingness. I don't remember her ever running away against an opponent

First time Golden Sperm take hostage, so it's kinda hard to run or do anything at all.

Second time it was Garou who didn't even care about her and he didn't made any attempt to come in CQC with her.

And last one, Saitama, he just stand in melee in the HA basement, how the heck she supposed hit'n'run here? Anyway Saitama is the worst example of measurement anyone strength in OPM.

>It's an example of how a stronger enemy can deflect the attack.

In my opinion it's very bad example. At first he just run from it and then he just try to tank it.
 
Maraderchik said:
>But does she run from them while attacking?
>Tatsumaki is too arrogant to hit and run. She didn't do it against Saitama, she didn't do it against neither Garou nor Black Sperm. Her main strategy is to overwhelm her opponents and crush them into nothingness. I don't remember her ever running away against an opponent

First time Golden Sperm take hostage, so it's kinda hard to run or do anything at all.

Second time it was Garou who didn't even care about her and he didn't made any attempt to come in CQC with her.

And last one, Saitama, he just stand in melee in the HA basement, how the heck she supposed hit'n'run here? Anyway Saitama is the worst example of measurement anyone strength in OPM.

>It's an example of how a stronger enemy can deflect the attack.

In my opinion it's very bad example. At first he just run from it and then he just try to tank it.
Click to expand...
You need to give an example and time that shows it's actually in-character for Tatsumaki to do Hit and Run tactics. Every example shown has her floating in one spot and throwing stuff around. This wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that her personality and lack of any comment on her fighting strategy made it apparent this is how she usually fights.

It's like me saying "Goku would snap her neck if he got the opportunity". Sure, he CAN with a 4x AP advantage, but he wouldn't as it isn't IC.
 
Calaca Vs said:
Look Vegeta vs Frieza and Goku KKx20 vs Frieza.
Frieza is capable of deflecting with the leg Vegeta's attacks but Goku's even hurt his hand.
Click to expand...
i just find out, but isn't it's DBZ, while Goku in this thread from DB? Or it's the same series?

There just a bunch of different versions of opponents thant's make it very hard to understand who capable on what.

Why Frieza deflect Vegeta's attack but can't do the same with Goku, why Raditz just tank this attack and take it as nothing?

@Akreious

Nevertheless, BFR is legit tactic to many in vsbattle. Tats never be in a situation when hit'n'run is available tactic decision.

Offtopic: And as fellow Overlord supporter(?) you should know about arrogant behavior that's will be significantly reduced after ones defeat. (And i think there should be CRT to remove this weakness from her profile)
 
"Nevertheless, BFR is legit tactic to many in vsbattle."

Eh, it's legit but Goku's got many ways to rebound. He could always fight back against her TK with Nimbus to push him in the opposite direction so he'd essentially just be levitating with two equal forces. He could always use a foot kamehameha to propel himself into trees and such to obscure her view of him in order to escape TK, stuff like that.

"And as fellow Overlord supporter(?) you should know about arrogant behavior that's will be significantly reduced after ones defeat. (And i think there should be CRT to remove this weakness from her profile)"

Eh, I honestly don't see Tatsumaki changing even after being defeated due to arrogance. I'm not too caught up on OPM but does she have like a father/parent figure that tells her "stop being arrogant"? Cuz' Shalltear had her literal God tell her to be more tactical and stop with the arrogance so her example is significantly more extreme.
 
There's no DBZ in DB manga. Frieza, Cell and Buu's arc belongs to Dragon Ball aswell. And as such the rules within the verse are still the same.

Frieza was vastly supperior to both of them but Goku was at a higher level than Vegeta. The former even reached nearly 50% of Frieza's full strength with that blast while Vegeta was fodderized by Frieza.

Goku and Piccolo were fodder to Raditz since the KHH and SBC came out. The former made Raditz tanked it because he needed to.

In all the cases a stronger character may deflect or tank the attack if he can do it. Raditz couldn't deflect Goku's KHH just like Frieza did it with Vegeta's ki blast. Sure, Frieza and Vegeta's gap is significantly bigger than Goku and Raditz's but the rule still stands.

Nappa was capable of deflect Gohan's Masenko.

Even stronger opponents had some difficult stopping or deflecting ki attacks. Tatsumaki is even weaker so she won't do it any easily.
 
Akreious said:
"Nevertheless, BFR is legit tactic to many in vsbattle."
Eh, it's legit but Goku's got many ways to rebound. He could always fight back against her TK with Nimbus to push him in the opposite direction so he'd essentially just be levitating with two equal forces. He could always use a foot kamehameha to propel himself into trees and such to obscure her view of him in order to escape TK, stuff like that.
Click to expand...
I just mentioned that if someone didn't use actual BFR in series, there nothing to stop them from do it in VSbattle, same as hit'n'run.

@Calaca so what the gap between Freeza and Vegeta, and between Raditz and Goku?

Because it's kinda strange if you can't deflect 6-B(Goku) attack while you 5-B( Raditz).
 
Maraderchik said:
@Calaca so what the gap between Freeza and Vegeta, and between Raditz and Goku?

Because it's kinda strange if you can't deflect 6-B(Goku) attack while you 5-B( Raditz).
Click to expand...
The Goku who fighted Raditz is 5-B. The rules for the verse are the same tho.

The power levels said Raditz was from 3 to 4x stronger than Piccolo and Goku but that doesn't apply here. VSBW doesn't care about power levels.

And Frieza vs Vegeta gap is unknown but Frieza toyed with the Prince with no effort. With Goku he had a fight more close but because Goku was powering up himself during the whole fight.
 
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