Tatsumaki vs Goku

[Jobbo]

Grace has already concluded.

 

[Maraderchik]

You can ask people from Knowledgeable Members List via their message walls to comment in the thread. If it is accurate, it will be accepted and the changes will be made.

Actually i did it. You can check the thread if you want. My proposition pretty clear and based on actual scan and Murata's statement, so i just didn't see why there any problem to apply this.

 

[Maraderchik]

>Thirdly, according to her profile, her Aura Manipulation can be resisted by characters with strong will, irrespective of how strong or weak the character may be.

The main problem is while it was resisted 3 times its just only once mentioned about strong will or something like this. And this is Saitama, who pretty much broken in OPM verse and can't be really serve as measurement, On the other hand she can use it against Garou before his adaptability work on, same with Golden sperm, he was just stronger than Tats.

 

[Xantospoc]

In that very fight, they actually point as GS and Garou as examples of people with exceptionally strong wills.

Also, according to an Drama CD, apparently, Saitama could resist her TK even during training

 

[Maraderchik]

In that very fight, they actually point as GS and Garou as examples of people with exceptionally strong wills.
Also, according to an Drama CD, apparently, Saitama could resist her TK even during training

Can you put some quotes and link on this, it's will be nice.

 

[The_Calaca]

Already requested.

 

[Xantospoc]

In that very fight, they actually point as GS and Garou as examples of people with exceptionally strong wills.
Also, according to an Drama CD, apparently, Saitama could resist her TK even during training

Can you put some quotes and link on this, it's will be nice.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11124/111243179/4952279-1711749753-oimg0.jpg

Here it's plainly explained. AS for the other, I have no clue, I honestly despise OPM and the fact I know this much makes my stomach ache

 

[Maraderchik]

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11124/111243179/4952279-1711749753-oimg0.jpg

isn't this page prove nothing like strong will GS and Garou...? Garou overcome her TK due his adaptability and sheer difference in strength, same for GS.

If this theory work then, in whole OPM verse there only 3 character with strong will. Which is kinda strange whit AS, Bang, and especially Fubuki.

 

[AquaWaifu]

yeah it shows even Atomic Samurai, Bang, Fubuki all fall to Tatsumaki


its more that those three GS, Garou and Saitama simply graciosuly exceed the level of willpower needed to resist her TK.

I doubt Goku at this point in the DB canon that is being used here as the similar levels of Willpower to those three, he seems on the same level as others in OPM.

 

[Akreious]

"I doubt Goku at this point in the DB canon that is being used here as the similar levels of Willpower to those three, he seems on the same level as others in OPM."

The hell? Goku has less willpower than Saitama or the then-given up Boros? Seriously? Are you hearing yourself right now? The Kid who's species relies on an energy source that directly ties itself with Willpower has less Willpower than Saitama, who is bored out of his mind and has absolutely no desire to do anything better other than to have fun. Saitama may have had the level of displayed Willpower back when he had hair and did his training, but not the Saitama that we know now.

Also Goku of this thread and the Goku that went into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber had no real mentality change. Goku went into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and was in complete Isolation for a month and only came out because he couldn't handle the atmosphere, not because the isolation was getting to him. That's a massive level of Willpower right there.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I want to point out that Garou was affected just fine by pshycos until he adapted.

So its either that Saitama in verse invincibility making his will so high or that he is more determinated than garou at all times

 

[AquaWaifu]

Except for the fact we first learn of his resistence to Tatsumaki's TK is when he is bald, so yeah he has insane willpower even in current.

 

[Akreious]

Except for the fact we first learn of his resistence to Tatsumaki's TK is when he is bald, so yeah he has insane willpower even in current.

You're going to need to cite this information. All we have about TK Resistance and Willpower is ONLY when Saitama was bald, Tatsu never attempted it on Training-With-Hair Saitama.

Also, that doesn't say much. You're going to have to prove Goku has lesser Willpower with, I can't believe I'm saying this, Willpower Feats. So far, Goku has a SIGNIFICANTLY better "Willpower" feat than Bald Saitama.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I think there is someone much better to compare actualy.

What are goku's willpower feats that put him above half transformed garou? After all, he was affected by the pshycic powers of someone weaker than tatsumaki.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Except for the fact we first learn of his resistence to Tatsumaki's TK is when he is bald, so yeah he has insane willpower even in current.

You're going to need to cite this information. All we have about TK Resistance and Willpower is ONLY when Saitama was bald, Tatsu never attempted it on Training-With-Hair Saitama.
Also, that doesn't say much. You're going to have to prove Goku has lesser Willpower with, I can't believe I'm saying this, Willpower Feats. So far, Goku has a SIGNIFICANTLY better "Willpower" feat than Bald Saitama.

Y-you just stated the OPPOSITE of that! You argued he DIDNT have willpower when he was bald

 

[Akreious]

No, I said that theres no reason to place bald saitama's willpower higher than Pre bald saitama and that just because the willpower resist thing was introduced when saitama was bald. Basically it does not mean Bald Saitama > Pre bald Saitama

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

That doesn't really matter here tough.

We know that pshycic powers work on people as determinated as garou when he was half monster.

So, what puts goku at that level?

 

[Akreious]

What feats does Half Monster Garou have?

As a Toriyama rule, hax in DB scales to one AP. So if someone is on par with Goku, their hax such as hallucinations and such will work.

 

[AquaWaifu]

No, I said that theres no reason to place bald saitama's willpower higher than Pre bald saitama and that just because the willpower resist thing was introduced when saitama was bald. Basically it does not mean Bald Saitama > Pre bald Saitama

How does that make sense? How does that even matter?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

After being worn down from fighting multiple Heroes, curbstomped by Watchdogman and knocked unconscious by Saitama, he was forced, without sufficient rest, into a battle against multiple A-Class heroes, where he suffered a gunshot wound to his leg and was hit with poisonous arrows to drain his stamina but still managed to defeat all of his opponents. Immediately afterwards he found himself up against Genos and then both Bang and Bomb who subjected him to continued pummeling to the point that he was on the verge of death. Even after all the aforementioned punishment, he still willed himself to resume fighting ignoring the huge amounts of damage that his body had taken.

From his own page. The poison, or the wounds, gave him fever, he also had everyone of his bones broken while fighting bang, got a powerup through sheer will that allowed him to fight back after everything mentioned before happened, and got immortality type 2 through sheer will to not die against a monster he fought after this

The sdecond part I'm just going to ignore because it doesn't matter to fights outside the verse, verse equal or not, and NLF to say all powers are affected by this

 

[Quangotjokes]

"I doubt Goku at this point in the DB canon that is being used here as the similar levels of Willpower to those three, he seems on the same level as others in OPM."
The hell? Goku has less willpower than Saitama or the then-given up Boros? Seriously? Are you hearing yourself right now? The Kid who's species relies on an energy source that directly ties itself with Willpower has less Willpower than Saitama, who is bored out of his mind and has absolutely no desire to do anything better other than to have fun. Saitama may have had the level of displayed Willpower back when he had hair and did his training, but not the Saitama that we know now.

Also Goku of this thread and the Goku that went into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber had no real mentality change. Goku went into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber and was in complete Isolation for a month and only came out because he couldn't handle the atmosphere, not because the isolation was getting to him. That's a massive level of Willpower right there.

Can't use the hyperbolic timechaber as a willpower feat for this goku as it had not happened yet.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Can this Goku fly?

With the Nimbus, yeah. If that's allowed.

 

[Quangotjokes]

Also golden sperm has the combined wills of 12 trillion regular sperm. And full power tats is confirmed capable of killing him.

 

[Quangotjokes]

What people don't get that even if a character has strong will power it doesnt mean tats is out of the fight, she can still spam projectiles with her same AP.

 

[GyroNutz]

As a Toriyama rule, hax in DB scales to one AP. So if someone is on par with Goku, their hax such as hallucinations and such will work.

I thought we decided numerous times that this isn't accepted?

Also why are people still talking about the 'Tats AP comes from TK so it won't really affect Goku due to AP' when I've shown and repeated a clear example of Tats affecting someone more powerful than her (Monster Garou) with TK when she was severely weakened, exhausted and depowered no less?

 

[Quangotjokes]

As a Toriyama rule, hax in DB scales to one AP. So if someone is on par with Goku, their hax such as hallucinations and such will work.

I thought we decided numerous times that this isn't accepted?
Also why are people still talking about the 'Tats AP comes from TK so it won't really affect Goku due to AP' when I've shown and repeated a clear example of Tats affecting someone more powerful than her (Monster Garou) with TK when she was severely weakened, exhausted and depowered no less?

It's either bias, or lack of knowlledge on tats.

 

[IvoryAS]

Bump

 

[Akreious]

"I thought we decided numerous times that this isn't accepted?"

It isn't accepted here but a very real phenomona in-verse.

"Also why are people still talking about the 'Tats AP comes from TK so it won't really affect Goku due to AP' when I've shown and repeated a clear example of Tats affecting someone more powerful than her (Monster Garou) with TK when she was severely weakened, exhausted and depowered no less?"

That doesn't mean anything until you make a CRT to change the info on the profile. Actually, she temporarily stalled Monster Garou and then got wrecked. That isn't a feat of her TK, it's a feat of "Oh this is a thing now. Pop". It's sort of like if I had the strength of 100 men, and I tripped over a wire while charging at the enemy. Then next time, I expect it and proceed to kick the wire along with whatever is holding it. Doesn't mean the initial wire was superior to the 2nd, it simply "Caught me off Guard".

Plus. again, Willpower.

Also to that person who said we can't use hyperbolic, no. This Goku and the Goku that went into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber has had no mental development or difference between the two sagas. Hell, Goku never actually mentally "matured" until he became a parent in DBZ where he got some semblance of caring for a family.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

That doesn't mean anything until you make a CRT to change the info on the profile. Actually, she temporarily stalled Monster Garou and then got wrecked. That isn't a feat of her TK, it's a feat of "Oh this is a thing now. Pop". It's sort of like if I had the strength of 100 men, and I tripped over a wire while charging at the enemy. Then next time, I expect it and proceed to kick the wire along with whatever is holding it. Doesn't mean the initial wire was superior to the 2nd, it simply "Caught me off Guard".

Plus. again, Willpower

Yes, do you know why? Because Garou already adapted to TK at that point. Psycos used it on him, and he adapted to it in a few seconds.

Again, what willpower he has is better than Garou's?

 

[Rinkudamanrd]

Am I....Sure this wasn't done before? I feel like it might have?
Standard Battle Assumptions as always, with exception of speed being equal.

Tornado of Terror: 1

Son Goku:

If Goku went UI then he definatly would win. Probably even SSJ

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Necro.

 

[Rinkudamanrd]

I'm sorry, I dont get what you mean @ShadowWarrior1999

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

You commented on a thread that's been inactive for almost a year.

 

[Rinkudamanrd]

Ohh.

 

[Jasonsith]

So is anyone going to re-discuss that?

 

[Epiccheev]

Goku's high 6-C key became Low 6-B+ this is prob outdated

 

[Schnee_One]

He was always Low 6B+, it's just Tats when from Low 6B to High 6C.