Tamni question : Beyond Aeons? What does it do?

[Threemagi]

Aleister and Aiwass for example, who are beyond Aeon of Osiris . And Accelerator, who is beyond ... Idk.

Anyway, the logic is, lastest Aeon>>old Aeon . How would we translate it into applicable combat ability in versus thread with neutralverse as a battleground?

I honestly don't get Aeons manipulation thingies.

Can Aleister/Accel stomp [insert character here] because [insert setting here] doesn't have concept of Aeon?

 

[Accelerate420]

Aleister isn't beyond Aeons unless you count his new body, but we don't key that yet. Aiwass being beyond Aeons is debateable since Aiwass couldn't do anything to Coronzon and he's likely still Horus.

Being beyond Aeons depends in the application. For Coronzon it gave her resistance to all Magic in the toolbox of the world so long as she had her body and let her manipulate specific spells through the tree.

ISIS = Magic based around Paganism

Osiris = Magic based around Judaism, Christianity, basically the modern day religions that deal with the concept of a singular God.

Horus = Magick/Abilities based upon human will and moving past the concept of God.

For someone like Accel whose entire power is 'no u' this gives him essentionally Anti-Magic in general unless it's /really/ specific. The way it's treated is just an Anti-Magic in general to make it simplier until we fully understand the terms of it. Though Coronzon would only have resistance to the Magic and not a full Anti like Accel.

It depends on the character. If the character only uses Magic that falls under Accel's field, then yes, it's a stomp sinec Accel is fully Anti-Magic now, since Aeons are represenative of Humanity, and most fantasies would either be Pagan or Judaism in terms of ISIS or OSIRIS.

TL;DR: No, but technically yes. For Accel we just translate it as pure Anti-Magic/Magic-Negation due to how it relates to his field at the moment. Aleister, we don't have a key for that and Coronzon should have Magic Resistance to a point as well. Aiwass I don't think is beyond aeons without more proof.

 

[Threemagi]

@Accel420 I mean in context of 'Beyond Osiris' for Aleis and Aiwass. Horus magic>>Osiris magic .

In neutralverse, we won't know if (for example) Meliodas uses Osiris magic or Horus magic.


Okay, its magic negation for accel. And only magic. Not negate pure psychic reality warping.


Thank you for your explanation.

 

[Accelerate420]

@Accel420 I mean in context of 'Beyond Osiris' for Aleis and Aiwass. Horus magic>>Osiris magic .
In neutralverse, we won't know if (for example) Meliodas uses Osiris magic or Horus magic.


Okay, its magic negation for accel. And only magic. Not negate pure psychic reality warping.


Thank you for your explanation.

Meliodas would use OSIRIS Magic most likely, given what I know about the verse, and it'd still count. Well he's still protected against psychic reality warping stuff too.

The way Aeon advantages go is odd, because you have ISIS magic being effective against Aleister vs Osiris Magic doing nothing to him. It's not simply >> is better than the other, they're different kits to work with and one may have more versatility than the other, but more draw backs, etc. Osiris Magic is simple and easy to use without much drawbacks but ISIS magic might be different and require different things.

There is no clear advantage for one over the other yet.

 

[Threemagi]

@Accel420 Rock-Paper-Scissors then (or Rock-Paper-HolyRight :lol: )

Aeon advantage is too situational to apply in real versus then

Except white boi's. In which he can lolnope magic , basically . on top of being mage himself. Now he really lives up the reputation of AIM/Esper being magicbane.

 

[Threemagi]

... Wait, Aiwass >> Accel (Wings) is because of Aiwass is in Horus, right? Accel is still Osiris

But Accel isn't made of magic. Espers aren't mage, they're weird small scale reality warpers. And yet Espers are in Osiris Aeon

 

[Scrlk666777]

Accelerator, with Clonoth and Platinum wings should be beyond Aeons. It's only black wings that are of the Osiris Aeon and possibily white wings as well.

Espers aren't magic but it has been hinted that the wings are magic or at least similar to it.

To be honest being beyond aeons if still, for the large part, unknown. We know that Coronzon was able to completely destroy IB and Accelerator was able to stop Neph from regenerating and would have killed her if she didn't move out of the way.

Accelerator also forced Coronzon's soul out of her body which I'm sure only he could have done that due to being the only person besides Coronzon at the time to be beyond aeons.

 

[Threemagi]

@Scrlk Yes, Espers' wings are made out of Telesma, so I guess they're magic. (I'm hoping Aeon isn't exclusive to magic system negation though)

 

[Accelerate420]

They aren't made out of Telesma. Index only said they were 'similar', and Kakine didn't know what kind of matter they were either, just that they were similar to his ability (likely Wings are energy that simply doesn't exist in the phase and comes from somewhere else.) So it can't be explained by Science or current Magic.

 

[Threemagi]

@Accel420 Which means an Aeon covers supernatural phenomena from magic origin, science origin and other vastly alien origin.

Dark matter that made up esper wings have home universe. In that home universe, Dark matter has organic version and inorganic version.

Maybe Dark matter's home universe is Pure World. That'd be weird if Pure World of Physical Laws actually have vastly different physical laws when compared to current universe.


Anyway, Dark matter wings seems to fall under Osiris. While platinum wings is Horus.

Am I overthinking this?

 

[Scrlk666777]

Yes, it's unknown what the wings are and what they are made out of. Index and Kakine were both only guessing. Both could be right though in their own ways. The only one who wasn't guessing was Aiwass but he never stated what the wings were made out of only that they were from the aeon of Orisis.

Black wings seem to act, in a way, differently than White wings and Platinum wings in that Accelerator completely loses himself and begins to speak in the angelic langaue, something he has not done on White wings or yet in Platinum wings.

Tbh I think it's likely the wings are most likely neither and could actually transend both.

Platinum wings are of no aeon, they are beyond them.

 

[Accelerate420]

Yeah, I've considered the idea that Dark Matter is a substance that exists outside the Phase that Kakine just draws from since it still exists after he's gone. (Sample Shoggoth). Platinum wings isn't Horus, White Wings is. Platinum Wings is beyond Aeons.

Though technically both White and Black would be Osiris since they're both the same, with Platinum wings being noticeably different and are based off of Aiwass's wings. All we know is that Black Wings are noticeably of Osiris but everything else is out there. It doesn't really matter though because the Wings are subjected to Accel's thought process at the time less-so than the Aeons, so Accel having gone beyond Aeon's and starting to exhibit Holistic phenomena through "opening up his world" ties in to going Beyond the World and beyond aeons.

Aeon's are literally related to the time frame of the people less so than magic. That's why Aleister can use Horus magick while in Osiris. If it's a Fantasy world that believes in Gods, it'd technically fall upon the ISIS Aeon. If it's a world where there's a singular God, it'd be Osiris. Etc, etc.

 

[Threemagi]

It doesn't really matter though because the Wings are subjected to Accel's thought process at the time less-so than the Aeons, so Accel having gone beyond Aeon's and starting to exhibit Holistic phenomena through "opening up his world" ties in to going Beyond the World and beyond aeons.

Aeon's are literally related to the time frame of the people less so than magic. That's why Aleister can use Horus magick while in Osiris. If it's a Fantasy world that believes in Gods, it'd technically fall upon the ISIS Aeon. If it's a world where there's a singular God, it'd be Osiris. Etc, etc.

So, Aeon-Level-Up is change in mindset and perception of reality brought about by time-frame/Age people live in.
Or something like that? (I'm more confused now :lol )

The problem is that quantifying Accel as someone who is beyond Aeons. Obviously, Accel is beyond the influence of any magic and beyond the influence of alien physics (of Dark matter wings things).

Sooo, in conclusion, Accelerator have Magic Immunity and Law Manipulation Immunity?

 

[Accelerate420]

It doesn't really matter though because the Wings are subjected to Accel's thought process at the time less-so than the Aeons, so Accel having gone beyond Aeon's and starting to exhibit Holistic phenomena through "opening up his world" ties in to going Beyond the World and beyond aeons.

Aeon's are literally related to the time frame of the people less so than magic. That's why Aleister can use Horus magick while in Osiris. If it's a Fantasy world that believes in Gods, it'd technically fall upon the ISIS Aeon. If it's a world where there's a singular God, it'd be Osiris. Etc, etc.

So, Aeon-Level-Up is change in mindset and perception of reality brought about by time-frame/Age people live in.
Or something like that? (I'm more confused now :lol )

The problem is that quantifying Accel as someone who is beyond Aeons. Obviously, Accel is beyond the influence of any magic and beyond the influence of alien physics (of Dark matter wings things).

Sooo, in conclusion, Accelerator have Magic Immunity and Law Manipulation Immunity?

That's actually a much better way to put it than I did, yes. It's a change in mindset and perception. Aleister's perception was ahead of the world and he realized Osiris was going to become obsolete and so forth, so he inherently could perform Horus Magick or make his own.

Uhhh, I don't know about Law Manip immunity. All espers have some form of resistance to Law and probability manipulation but it's very specific. Magic Immunity at the moment, yes, unless the specifics of the Magic are /very/ specific like Curtana's slicing effect.

 

[JBennett]

My personal opionion of how Aeons work is base on its relationship with gods when compared to one another. Isis is about worshiping multiple gods on an even playing field with them, living in harmony with them, and example of this would be Shintoism.

Osiris is about worshiping a single powerful god. Now the reason I believe that Osiris is higher then Isis is due to how Osiris is about worshiping one single god that resides above all others where as Isis is about living in harmony with all gods, if one single god of the groupe were to rebel and take over that one god would have all the power.

Horis is different, its not about worshiping a god but rather evolving outside of god's rule. God has power over everything, the rules, laws, and systems. God even controls creation itself. So what would happen if someone decided to act outside of that system, that they decided that they no longer wanted to act within the bounderies set up by god? Any one within the system wouldn't be able to properly judge them since they no longer act within the laws in place nor in any others laws set up by any other group.

You can see this in the interaction between Aiwass and Accel, Accel is a part of a system that follows the laws of Osiris, the strongest will stand on top, even the city is base around it sure Aleister may not be worshiped as a god but he still is viewed as 'someone at the top'. Aiwass however isn't a part of that system, sure he has many names like Dragon and Angel but he doesn't call himself by those names just a mere 'exsistance'. An identity that has no roots within the world, a world primarially rulled by Osiris.

Any ways that's just my interpertation on the Aeons and I felt like stating my idea on the subject.

 

[Inori_Hatsune]

Probably outer god stuff since to aru has some reference to cthullu mythos?

 

[Accelerate420]

J's view of it is pretty accurate and interesting.

 

[JBennett]

I primarily got this idea base on the comments by Kazuma in NT 22 that NT 20, 21, and 22 repersents the different Aeons. "It was mentioned in the story, but NT20 represented the
Aeon of Isis with all the activity by Greek and Egyptian gods from before Christianity,
NT21 represented Osiris with everything coming down to the power of the Christian bible,
and NT22 represented Horus by moving beyond even that."

Volume 20 was about using the power of the gods.

Volume 21 uses the power of a single god and evolve to a higher level.

Volume 22 is about useing a method that doesn't follow any previous roots, the eggs from within Touma's arm and Accel's holistic attack with the help of a tree/system that is not apart of the Sephiroth or the Qliphoth.

Personally it seems like the concept of Aeons are so in depth that trying to catagorized it in VSB terms won't do it justice.

 

[Scrlk666777]

That's a good way of explaining it, I think you basically hit the nail on the head and you used Kamachi's layout of NT20-22 to do it as well!

Being beyond aeons could potentially be completely broken. I am only talking potential here but for example it has the potential to be able to nullify any attack, as long as it's from one of the three aeons of Isis, Osiris and Horus.

 

[Threemagi]

Volume 20 was about using the power of the gods.

Volume 21 uses the power of a single god and evolve to a higher level.

Honestly, not many verses use 'Idol Theory' as basis for their superpowers.
They all use their own power.

But still, powers like Chakra and Haki have defined mechanics/hierarchy for example. Maybe its why Espers are in Osiris, because all Espers follow same mechanics (reliant on mathematical calculations, more brainpower = higher chance of getting on top) despite Espers not using of Idol Theory.

Osiris = World of Powerlevel? Where only One can be the strongest

Horus & beyond = World where the concept of 'powerlevel' is irrelevant? (Eveyone's strength is always fluctuating like Holy Right on crack?)

Damn this is getting more confusing.

 

[Zensum]

I agree with JB as well.

From a vs match and power level perspective, what being from a later Aeon or higher on a Tree is rather vague at the moment. Kamachi is kinda beating around the bush, hopefully we get more explict statments in part 3.