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Tabuu vs Goku

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Even if hoku was that far above baseline, fairly sure that Tabuu is more impressive. Dialga is low 2-C via being born, so literally no effort on it's part, and arceys is much stronger, albeit unquantifiably so. Master hand treats Arceus as a toy. Pretty sure that's a bigger Gap than 4000. Tabuu 1 shotted master hand.
 
How is Goku 4000 times low 2-C?

Via scaling. Although there's no guarantee it's exactly 4000x since there's no guideline minimum for "Stomps" or "Superior"s.
 
Wokistan said:
Even if hoku was that far above baseline, fairly sure that Tabuu is more impressive. Dialga is low 2-C via being born, so literally no effort on it's part, and arceys is much stronger, albeit unquantifiably so. Master hand treats Arceus as a toy. Pretty sure that's a bigger Gap than 4000. Tabuu 1 shotted master hand.
Click to expand...
Infinite Zamasu is low 2-C via existing. No different from Dialga. No effort whatsoever since the universe IS his body.

Jiren is MUCH stronger, being the greatest foe the cast ever faced. Jiren utterly treats the UIO Goku that fought a Casual Jiren that was stated to be superior to Zamasu as a joke, still treats him as a joke even though he got buffed and went into UIO twice, and only surpassed Jiren once he mastered UI, which Goku then fodderized Jiren. And then Jiren Limit Broke and was superior to regular MUI Goku for awhile, then an enraged MUI Goku fodderized Jiren again.

In short, "'Treats as a toy" is a bad example of how powerful he is since MUI Goku utterly shitstomps on Jiren who treats people who, even though are stated superior to Infinite Zamasu and has had massive jumps and boosts in power, like utter trash and never actually went close to 100% power until UIO Goku started mastering UI.
 
He "treats him as a toy" in a literal sense. SSB arceus is an inanimate object from the perspective of master hand, it's not a metaphorical thing.
 
Zamas isn't universal+ by existing, he is universal for being a universe, which is more baseline than any other feat. MUI did not fodderize full power Jiren either, Jiren was still stronger than him until Goku got his rage-induced power amp
 
I keep seeing "Super Saiyan Blue Arceus" o_o


I know it's not a metaphorical thing, but even toys to us can potentially be dangerous. And there should be a point where a chain of stomps and fodderizing should at reach that level of "You literally cannot even".
 
Cropfist said:
Zamas isn't universal+ by existing, he is universal for being a universe, which is more baseline than any other feat. MUI did not fodderize full power Jiren either, Jiren was still stronger than him until Goku got his rage-induced power amp
Click to expand...
Zamasu is indeed Universal+ by existing. He's Universal for being a Universe. He IS a Universe. So, by existing, he IS a Universe. I don't get your logic.

I think you're missing some info. MUI DID Fodderize 100% Jiren. Did you not see all the "Kore de, Owari DAAA!" memes? That was Jiren's 100% attack and Goku utterly crapped all over it. Then Jiren proceeded to get stomped even harder afterwards. Jiren had to go Limit Breaker to surpass MUI Goku, then an Enraged MUI Goku stomped THAT Jiren.
 
Technically, being an universe would logically pretty baseline, since Low 2-C = can one-shot an universe.

That's probably not how it works here tho, I'm just trying to use logic, so don't take my word for it.
 
It's like how humans aren't above baseline human level just for being a human.

When did he fodderize UIS Goku? Either way Goku eventually collapsed from not being able to handle Ultra Instinct's power so he really isn't that casual universal+.
 
Sigh...

Note how not a single effing person was one shot in this Dragon Ball chain of superiority. The level of wank for this level of fodderizing in the ToP is beyond ridiculous.
 
Just going to point out that Dialga, by no means, is baseline Low 2-C. Like at all.

And im sure Cal and several others would back me up on that.
 
Son Gandhi said:
So who has the ap advantage here, can nobody agree? Based on what I've read goku has ap advantage, if that's the case he spams IT and one shots with a full powered kamehameha.
Click to expand...
Goku doesn't have the AP advantage.
 
Via scaling. Although there's no guarantee it's exactly 4000x since there's no guideline minimum for "Stomps" or "Superior"s.
You literally pulled that number out of your ass.
 
Noahkaismith said:
Via scaling. Although there's no guarantee it's exactly 4000x since there's no guideline minimum for "Stomps" or "Superior"s.
Click to expand...
You literally pulled that number out of your ass.
I was never the one who claimed 4000x. What the hell are you saying I'm doing exactly?

"Note how not a single effing person was one shot in this Dragon Ball chain of superiority. The level of wank for this level of fodderizing in the ToP is beyond ridiculous."

Kefla could've 1-shot Goku dead in his tracks if she actually landed a hit. Jiren could've 1-shot Goku at any point prior to MUI Goku and arguably 3rd UIO Goku. Goku even when going SSB Kaiokenx20 against Jiren (When his SSB state during that time was in fact Low 2-C already, so that's 20x baseline) could've been 1-shot by Jiren at any time should he have wished. Where is this "Wank" I hear you keep claiming? Cal this is like the 2nd or 3rd time I've seen you say DBS is being wanked now without even attempting to see how the other argument has been formed in the first place.
 
Infinite Zamasu is low 2-C via existing. No different from Dialga. No effort whatsoever since the universe IS his body.
Jiren is MUCH stronger, being the greatest foe the cast ever faced. Jiren utterly treats the UIO Goku that fought a Casual Jiren that was stated to be superior to Zamasu as a joke, still treats him as a joke even though he got buffed and went into UIO twice, and only surpassed Jiren once he mastered UI, which Goku then fodderized Jiren. And then Jiren Limit Broke and was superior to regular MUI Goku for awhile, then an enraged MUI Goku fodderized Jiren again.

In short, "'Treats as a toy" is a bad example of how powerful he is since MUI Goku utterly shitstomps on Jiren who treats people who, even though are stated superior to Infinite Zamasu and has had massive jumps and boosts in power, like utter trash and never actually went close to 100% power until UIO Goku started mastering UI.

The difference is that IZ is baseline, Dialga isn't.

Literally the only thing than Jiren did to the first UIO Goku was block his punch. That's not treating him as a joke. SSBKKx20 Goku got several good blows in that did notable damage. Jiren did not treat him as a joke. Limit Breaker Jiren was not surperior to MUI Goku. MUI Goku literally had him buried in a crater, and Jiren literally resorted to attacking the audience. Enraged MUI Goku did not fodderize LB Jiren. Like at all.

Except Master Hand views Arceus as a LITERAL toy. Like a figurine or something.
 
Akreious said:
I keep seeing "Super Saiyan Blue Arceus" o_o


I know it's not a metaphorical thing, but even toys to us can potentially be dangerous. And there should be a point where a chain of stomps and fodderizing should at reach that level of "You literally cannot even".
Click to expand...
PicardDoubleFacepalm-1
I can't even...
 
Akreious said:
I keep seeing "Super Saiyan Blue Arceus" o_o


I know it's not a metaphorical thing, but even toys to us can potentially be dangerous. And there should be a point where a chain of stomps and fodderizing should at reach that level of "You literally cannot even".
Click to expand...
None of those "stomps" are anywhere close to the difference between a person and a literal toy.
 
Noahkaismith said:
Akreious said:
I keep seeing "Super Saiyan Blue Arceus" o_o

I know it's not a metaphorical thing, but even toys to us can potentially be dangerous. And there should be a point where a chain of stomps and fodderizing should at reach that level of "You literally cannot even".
Click to expand...
None of those "stomps" are anywhere close to the difference between a person and a literal toy.
Click to expand...
To be fair, the "literal toys" are not literally toys at all but people who happen to have some sort of toy-based life where they're turned into statues upon being defeated. It's not as if Master Hand or Tabuu can, at will, turn them into those forms and push them around like actual toys.

Tabuu requires a charged attack to do so (which may or may not be hax vs raw firepower) and Master Hand has never been seen interacting with them in that way.
 
"The difference is that IZ is baseline, Dialga isn't."

Any evidence Smash Dialga isn't baseline? I keep seeing people saying Smash Dialga is above baseline when the reasoning states otherwise.

"Literally the only thing than Jiren did to the first UIO Goku was block his punch. That's not treating him as a joke."

Did you completely ignore the fact that Jiren's way of fighting is to let their opponent have their little fun then completely crush them? UIO Goku's last Hurrah was literally no-sold by Jiren who was NEVER TAKING HIM SERIOUSLY EVER. UIO Goku was a complete and utter JOKE to him at that point.

"SSBKKx20 Goku got several good blows in that did notable damage. "

He got thrown off by the ****** up teamwork of Goku and Vegeta, like "what in the hell are you two doing", and then proceeded to kick Goku's ass once they got separated. Notable damage where? he showed a glimpse of his true power and Goku shat his pants.

"Limit Breaker Jiren was not surperior to MUI Goku. MUI Goku literally had him buried in a crater, and Jiren literally resorted to attacking the audience. Enraged MUI Goku did not fodderize LB Jiren. Like at all. "

This is so SO wrong. Jesus christ man, did you not see ANY episodes?

Episode 130. Jiren at 100% is getting his ass kicked hard, like roflstomped by MUI Goku. At time stamp 2:40, Jiren surpasses his limits and goes Limit Breaker.

Here, this fight illustrates that Limit Breaker jiren is superior to MUI Goku. Straight up overpowered.

Goku launched Jiren into an asteroid. Up to this point, Jiren has been getting in all the good hits and this is the first time Goku actually got the upper hand. Goku says this is his power, which triggers Jiren which is what caused him to attack the audience. Can you like, not ignore context? Oh and timestamp 2:04, rewatch that bit. Because Jiren got his ass STOMPED. Name me one time where Jiren actually caused Goku any actual pain.

"None of those "stomps" are anywhere close to the difference between a person and a literal toy."

"How the hell can an Arceus Amiibo be dangerous?"

Are you actually doing this right now? Barring speed, I'd like to see you try to fight your Action Figures if they were sentient and had relatively the same speed as you. And I mean, have you ever stepped on a Lego? That crap hurts. Living, Sentient Legos? I already cut myself sometimes playing with my lego sets for a day. Now, I don't actually have Amiibos so I can't judge the level of dangerous-ness in comparison to Legos, but Toys and Action Figures aren't utterly weak like you guys are implying. At all.

Oh and I have this philosophy of anything is a weapon if you use it right, and Toys are no exception. Those things HURT and I, I'm using this word a lot, Guarantee that I can find ways to kill someone with it

Oh and Noah, try not to triple post. People get mildly infuriated enough at Double Posts. Just use the edit button like I do when you have to add-on to something.
 
To be fair, the "literal toys" are not literally toys at all but people who happen to have some sort of toy-based life where they're turned into statues upon being defeated. It's not as if Master Hand or Tabuu can, at will, turn them into those forms and push them around like actual toys.

Tabuu requires a charged attack to do so (which may or may not be hax vs raw firepower) and Master Hand has never been seen interacting with them in that way.

Literally the first thing in the game.
 
"Noahkaismith said:
To be fair, the "literal toys" are not literally toys at all but people who happen to have some sort of toy-based life where they're turned into statues upon being defeated. It's not as if Master Hand or Tabuu can, at will, turn them into those forms and push them around like actual toys.

Tabuu requires a charged attack to do so (which may or may not be hax vs raw firepower) and Master Hand has never been seen interacting with them in that way.
Click to expand...
Literally the first thing in the game.
That's Tabuu? I thought that was one of the Hands, not Tabuu.

"MH doesnt see Arceus as a sentient toy with the same speed as them; he sees her as a toy, an inanimate object."

How the **** did we manage to hurt it in-game then?
 
I was responding to how they said that Master Hand had never been seen interacting with them in that way. But anyway, Tabuu is FAR surperior to the hands.

Do you know what an outlier is?
 
Gonna derail a bit, that is actually really really really dumb. Like, wow. So, if I played with my real life action figures right now, there's a chance that PIS could allow them to somehow, physically, **** me up? The hell were the writers on when making the story!?
 
But yeah, if AP goes to Tabuu then this is a stomp. Goku would have like... no advantages at all. AP, Hax, Durability, and Arguably intelligence would all go to Tabuu to which Goku can't do anything.
 
Akreious said:
Gonna derail a bit, that is actually really really really dumb. Like, wow. So, if I played with my real life action figures right now, there's a chance that PIS could allow them to somehow, physically, **** me up? The hell were the writers on when making the story!?
Click to expand...
inb4 Woody beats the shit out of Bonnie in Toy Story 4.
 
Probably Tabuu...? Although I'm now questioning the intelligence of Tabuu if everything is just toys to it, and it somehow allowed toys to beat it up. Like... bro, it's either A) These toys are sentient and beating you up (Unlikely) or B) You are CONTROLLING the toys to beat YOURSELF up.

But yeah, probably Tabuu. In which case, Goku gets assstomped to high hell and beyond.
 
Tabuudebunked
MUI Goku (Enraged) Fodderizes Limit Breaker Jiren who is superior to regular MUI Goku who fodderizes 100% Jiren who fodderizes UIO Goku (Kefla Fight) who is superior to UIO Goku (First fight) who is superior to Infinite Zamasu who is Low 2-C via existing.

Tabuu´s low 2-C is eccuase he beat Master Hand, who created the smash bros universe since the pokemon throphies have almost no reason being as low 2-C as the canon versions.

---


Not to mention that the gameplay waves are NOT omnidirectional, and using the gameplay battle in any shape or form is invaled ocnsidering the fight itself is PIS because tier 7 toys beating a low 2-C is dumb, not to mention it was weakenes by Sonic and thus, it is not a full power and CAN be dodged by proper timing, you CANNOT just ignore gameplay tehcnicaclities when it favours your argument AND it is not even omnidirectional because its on a 2D plane.


Not to mention that the cutsccenes (3D plane) show that the waves are literally just going in 360 degrees and are at least a metter above the ground.


Sorry, but the omnidirecitonal waves and Tabuu´s AP advatnage just got DEBUNKED.


Or just look at this Infinite Speed Captain Falcon in action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiBWAlLKEp0
 
Enraged MUI Goku did not fodderize LB Jiren. Not even close. Jiren never fought UIO Goku (Kefla fight) either.

Wow. Dialga's feat is literally EXACTLY the same as IZ's feat. So if the Smash creation trio isn't low 2-C, then neither is Goku or Jiren.

Just because the victory was PIS doesn't mean you can't use anything from the fight. Although I'll agree with you that it isn't omnidirectional.

You really didn't debunk anything. Try harder next time.
 
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