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Super Sonic Rebuff

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There's no proof that anyone tanked the Final Egg Blaster. And I'm not using AoE fallacy, but it does need to be pointed out that weapon/vehicle scaling isn't as linear with A > B > C logic as character scaling. Dragon Ball has other explanations such as Ki Control, and other verses have explanations such as Precision Strikes or Star Wars characters having Force Manipulation. Nuclear and Satellite weapons don't have those levels of control. Superman can basically do stuff like vaporize a Scorpion to save a Butterfly due to Precision. Metal Overlord, Ultimate Gemerl, and Eclipse Cannon don't have those same principles. Eclipse Cannon even when designed for pure destruction peaks at Tier 5.

Darth Vader is also a character who's way weaker than the Death Star since he died from the Death Star's explosion. And it's implied Luke would have died if he was on there too. Again, no one has ever survived the Final Egg Blaster and literally nothing has ever stated to have more fire power than the Final Egg Blaster.

I know Chip is Light Gaia, but Chip is also a weakened state of Light Gaia. The point was is that there are 0 comparison to the Final Egg Blaster so there should be 0 comparisons to the Final Egg Blaster period. Dark Gaia's best feat is still Tier 5, and even with all his might he struggled in his attempt to destroy a single planet and has zero indications of being Tier 4. None of Eggman's other robots have any indications of being Tier 4 let alone 4-A.
 
Except the the FEB is the only top tier machine who has a feat, the other should be as strong as It.

Vader was never said to be more powerful than the Death Star, the force was, and Eggman said it was Impossible to beat Overlord without the emeralds.

The Eclpse Cannon was created to destroy the Black Comet, only that:https://youtu.be/CBisWZ8eKV0 (13:26) not pure destruction, also the Eclipse Cannon never fired with all seven emeralds, Metal Overlord and Ultimate Gemerl objective was to beat Super Sonic, they should be as powerful or else Eggman's a idiot.

Dark Gaia did his tier 5 feat by awaking up, he only struggled because he split apart because he wasn't awakened at the right time.

There's no reason that Eggman's top tier machines would not be as powerful as the FEB, specicialy since they don't have anti-feats
 
I also don't really care about 4-A coming back but I'm just gonna say that assuming that the FEB is stronger than The Phantom Ruby Death Egg Bot,Metal Sonic,Metal Madness and Metal Overlord and all robots built to fight Super Sonic is quite the stretch and would be massive PIS for him to not use 4-A against Super Sonic.
 
Also it's not a stretch to assume Eggman got better at building stronger machines.

KInda like how he fully controlled the Time Eater when he had trouble controlling previous creatures.
 
Except when Shadow used it, he inserted all of his own Chaos Power into the Eclipse Cannon, which does count as it being powered by all 7 Chaos Emeralds. And when the Eclipse Canon has all 7 Chaos Emeralds, even Black Doom has feat of its power; Final Hazard also elaborates that the Eclipse Cannon powered by 7 Chaos Emeralds is Tier 5.

The Black Comet was the center of Black Doom's power and was the thing about to destroy the human race. "Piercing Planets or Stars" regardless of how you look of it is still not even close to 4-A. Not even Super Sonic has a reason to be on par with FEB like many other inventions do. Black Doom and Gerald worked together, and Gerald told Doom it was designed to destroy the planet, but he didn't tell him the part that it was going to use that power to protect the planet instead.

Actually, the robots do have "Anti-Feats" they all lost to Super Sonic; that's their Anti-Feat. But even Super Sonic consistently struggles to face threats that are at best Tier 5 and has 0 proof that he can survive a shot from the FEB. The Tier 2 stuff came much later. Speaking of Emerl, actually his method of destroying the Earth was the use of the FEB. Which Eggman tried to stop him but failed. Even Eggman feared ever using the FEB after that event, which kind of goes to show that 4-A is inconsistent.

Gemerl was literally modeled after Emerl and would naturally be comparable to him in base, but even with Chaos Emeralds, saying they're featless only makes Tier 4 more questionable and is the reason some people have doubts of them being less than Tier 5. Tier 5 is still legit for other reasons, but 4-A is not.

Eggman also never built Time Eater on its own, it was an alien as mentioned by an above comment. Another thing that required Outside help.
 
I will have to go to work, so I'll be inactive for 10 hours.
 
^Like everyone else, don't really care about bringing 4-A back, but to say Super Sonic struggles against Tier 5 threats is... questionable.

Unless said T5 threat is shown (like Dark Gaia) to outright damage Super Sonic or their power is commented on being comparable to Super Sonic (Metal Overlord, though, even he never damaged Super Sonic), there's no reason to believe Super Sonic "struggled" against them. The Tier 5 fights, for the majority, have always come across as a stomp fest.
 
The Black Comet is not the center of Black Doom power, that's unfounded headcanon, Gerald never told Black Doom that the Eclipse Cannon could only destroy planet the only thing that Black Doom said about it is that it can pierce stars

I literaly linked Black Doom specificaly saying that he didn't want to destroy the planet, nor the human race

The Final Hazard can't even speak, how could it say that The Eclipse Cannon is only tier 5? Especialy since the Chaos Emeralds were already neutralized by The Master Emerald before, it's only feat is fighting Super Sonic.

I already made a big post explaning that Super Sonic doesn't struggle with tier 5 before, it doesn't make sense that Eggman would built machines weaker than he could, it makes no sense, Eggman was never afraid of using the FEB after Battle, nor built machines with similar power
 
Like DDM I gotta go write my book so i'll be busy so I'll leave this

-FEB<Metal Overlord

(has been cited to be Eggman's most powerful creation placing him above the FEB as Eggman would also use his best machines to take on Super Sonic so they would be placed above the FEB)

-Metal Overlord scales to super forms(He fought Super Sonic along with Super Tails and Super Knuckles)

-Perfect Dark Gaia would also scale to Super Sonic(This would explain Super Sonic's struggle with him)

Here are the different keys:

Metal Overlord:4-A:should be vastly superior to the Final Egg Blaster which destroyed a cluster of stars

Super Sonic:4-A:damaged and ultimately defeated Metal Overlord with the help of Super Tails and Super Knuckles

Perfect Dark Gaia:4-A:fought both Super Sonic and Light Gaia

Tbh the 5-A key should be removed as it's inferior to 4-A.I'll be busy like DDM I have to write my book and won't be free until a while
 
DaBoiWhoOwnsMods said:
^Like everyone else, don't really care about bringing 4-A back, but to say Super Sonic struggles against Tier 5 threats is... questionable.

Unless said T5 threat is shown (like Dark Gaia) to outright damage Super Sonic or their power is commented on being comparable to Super Sonic (Metal Overlord, though, even he never damaged Super Sonic), there's no reason to believe Super Sonic "struggled" against them. The Tier 5 fights, for the majority, have always come across as a stomp fest.
Click to expand...
And both Perfect Dark Gaia and Metal Overlord are 5-A via upscaling and scaling respectively, so if Super Sonic was also 4-A they would be as well
 
Theuser789 said:
Let's look at every Eggman invention and final bosses to see if they are 5-A via scaling or because of their own feats.

3&K: it's because of scaling

Adventure: Chaos has a statment that he would destroy the world by Tikal, but he was using negative energy which is explicitaly weaker than positive ones.

SA2: the Eclipse Cannon wasn't built by Eggman so it wouldn't count for the power of his inventions and the Ark had a statment in the Final Story that the reaction of the emeralds would destroy the planet when the colony colided with Earth, it doesn't scales to the Final Hazard, he's 5-A via scaling.

Advance 1 and 2: it's because of scaling, they should be as powerful as the FEB.

Heroes: it's because of scaling, Metal Overlord should be as powerful as the FEB.

Shadow: Devil Doom is 5-A via scaling

Battle: the FEB is 4-A, Emerl doesn't scale to it

Advance 3:it's because of scaling, Ultimate Gemerl should be as powerful as the FEB

06: tier 2.

Rush: tier 2

Unleashed: the Chaos Energy Cannon main purpose was to awaken Dark Gaia, Dark Gaia did the 5-A feat when he was so weak he couldn't handle his own wheight: https://youtu.be/JG6KajmJXws?t=39 Perfect Dark Gaia is much stronger than that.

Rush Adventure: tier 2

Generations: tier 2

As you all can see none of Eggman's machines are 5-A via their own feats, they are via scaling, the top tier machine that Eggman built who has a feat is the FEB who is 4-A, it's fair to assume that the other top tier Eggman machines are also 4-A via being made without outside help and with the same amount of prep time, they should have the same power
Click to expand...
Here's the post, as you can see none of the final bosses are tier 5-A, they are either way stronger than the form that did the tier or they are tier 5 via scaling,if they are 4-A it makes the scaling make more sense since we wouldn't have Eggman make a 4-A machine and never use the power again.

Sonic doesn't struggle with tier 5 threats, I made that very clear multiple times, I am literaly repeating myself, If Sonic was 4-A over half of the bosses would be 4-A
 
Alright, I'm back, thank you all for the concerns. But I also got to get back to business.

Super Sonic, didn't exactly "stomp" any of those bosses. He won without injuries, but it's not like he one shotted anyone. But if we're going to put the word "Stomp"; then that only shows a lot of those bosses would be less than 5-A. The also still have launched Sonic and some where shown to be capable of repelling certain attacks.

And actually, Super Shadow legit did deplete all his Chaos Power, reverted to his Base form, and lost all his memories just to cancel out a Tier 5 attack from Final Hazard. Gaia Colossus was the one doing all the muscle work where as Sonic was merely stinging the eyes of Dark Gaia. But still, millions of Years ago, primal Light Gaia was evenly matched with primal Dark Gaia.

I already gave my sense that there's still 0 proof that Metal Overlord has more firepower than FEB. Not to mention Metal Overlord was also another character people keep saying he couldn't harm Sonic; implying he'd be less than 5-A. I don't think anyone of those who fight Super Sonic should be less than 5-A, but 4-A still feels like a massive stretch.
 
Nice to have you back but here's some thoughts on the matter

-While Sonic did not "stomp" them he contended and battled with them which should put him on the level of the bosses he fights in super form

-Keep in mind that Dark Gaia is 5-A and when he becomes Perfect Dark Gaia that's when Super Sonic joins in.That being said Perfect Dark Gaia likely is higher by an unknown extent which sets up 4-A

-The Final Egg Blaster would be weaker than the machines used by Eggman to truly defeat Sonic as the Final Egg Balster was never used again to destroy Sonic.It would be very odd for Eggman to have a weapon that's vastly stronger than Sonic and his Super form and not use it against him.Metal Overlord has been outright stated to be Eggman's most powerful creation (without help) this quote proves that Metal Overlord is stronger due to sheer statements.

For example.....

Darth Sidious has been stated to be the most powerful Sith Lord placing him above Darth Vader,Nihilus,Plagueis,Vitiate and etc

Metal Overlord has been stated to be Eggman's most powerful creation placing him above all other of his creations Death Egg Robot,Nega Wisp Armor and etc.The Final Egg Blaster would fall under this category as it's Eggman's creation.Also saying that Final Egg Blaster is 4-A and nothing else is massive PIS as Eggman's never tried to use it against Sonic at all.As the blast would kill him immediately.

Anyway I'll stop by from time to time to see how this goes,again sorry I'm a bit busy writing thank you
 
I should note that Sega doesn't really care about power scaling; someone tried to argue that Infinity was stronger than Solaris based on a similar statement. Calling Metal Overlord stronger than FEB sounds like the same boat as using that.
 
Well that's a massive power gap as Infinite has shown no 2-C feats at all while this is far more plausible.Infintie was beaten down by base Sonic and the Rookie so that's quite a different boat while FEB and Metal Overlord are far closer in these terms.Also that quote Eggman uses is probably just dramatic speech as he's claimed other of his inventions to be his "ultimate creation" as well but Metal Sonic is outright confirmed to be his strongest machine which would place him above the FEB which wouldn't be an outlier like Infinite being above Solaris.(Also Solaris isn't Eggman's creation lol who proposed that?)

Yeah Sonic's power-scaling is as wonky as Sonic 06's physics
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Alright, I'm back, thank you all for the concerns. But I also got to get back to business.

Super Sonic, didn't exactly "stomp" any of those bosses. He won without injuries, but it's not like he one shotted anyone. But if we're going to put the word "Stomp"; then that only shows a lot of those bosses would be less than 5-A. The also still have launched Sonic and some where shown to be capable of repelling certain attacks.

And actually, Super Shadow legit did deplete all his Chaos Power, reverted to his Base form, and lost all his memories just to cancel out a Tier 5 attack from Final Hazard. Gaia Colossus was the one doing all the muscle work where as Sonic was merely stinging the eyes of Dark Gaia. But still, millions of Years ago, primal Light Gaia was evenly matched with primal Dark Gaia.

I already gave my sense that there's still 0 proof that Metal Overlord has more firepower than FEB. Not to mention Metal Overlord was also another character people keep saying he couldn't harm Sonic; implying he'd be less than 5-A. I don't think anyone of those who fight Super Sonic should be less than 5-A, but 4-A still feels like a massive stretch.
Click to expand...
Those bosses are only 5-A via scaling, If Sonic was 4-A most of them would be as well, and I already explaneid why most of Eggman's machines that fought Super Sonic should be as strong as FEB, it's Occam's razor, it's way more simple to assume that Eggman's strongest inventions without help are as strong as the FEB.

Super Shadow only died because he couldn't handle his own super form, Sonic had no problems and Shadow also hadn't no problems fighting against Devil Doom later, also Gaia Colossus was just a distraction to Perfect Dark Gaia, he couldn't even damage him and kept getting knocked out by attacks that Super Sonic could tank

There's proof that Overlord is stronger than the FEB, Eggman thought that it was impossible to beat him without the emeralds even though he can make 4-A mechs, and what Oblivion said as well
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I think someone once calc'd Piercing the Yellow Sun at 5-A, which that would be our standard if we're going to assume the translation is accurate. But the more proper translation of Sonic Adventure 2 simply said destroy the planet. Anyway, 4-A is literally Quadrillions of times more than 4-C and 80 Sextillion times greater than Dark Gaia's best feat.
Click to expand...
1. The statement was in Shadow the Hedgehog (The Game). Not SA2. Credibility lost?

2. Piercing a star would just be 4-C at best. Cause it didn't specifically said what star it was going to destroy. And knowing the range of these weapons, they can destroy/pierce (they mean the same in this context) a bunch of stars. Also my main argument was to debunk the fact you said Eggman has no machinery that's Tier 4. I just gave you one and you guys calced the second one. Making 2 Tier 4 feats. Also the Tier 5 feats should be adequated towards Base Sonic. He has more Tier 5 feats than Tier 6 feats if you pay attention to story and lore in Sonic games.
 
That's right,keep in mind that Sonic in base form contended with and damaged Dark Gaia whom was able to break open the planet and is 5-A.Sonic only becomes Super when Dark Gaia becomes Perfect Dark Gaia who is stronger than before.

I think it would be best if Base Sonic should be 5-A for dealing with base Dark Gaia,While Super Sonic should be 4-A from scaling from Metal Overlord whom is superior to the Final Egg Blaster
 
Yes,5-B I forgot,while Base Sonic is surely weaker than Dark Gaia he would still scale to him just how the super hogs scale to Solaris even when damaging his weak spot.

5-B seems to make the most sense with base Sonic and Super can be bumped to 4-A IMO

Although I could careless if he got 4-A or not
 
Solaris is different. First they destroy his armor in phase 1 and the core isn't weaker than the rest of his body, they targeted it to stop his consciousness. Even then, the weak spot of a 2-C well more like 2-B isn't going to be infinitely weaker than the rest of their body, because that would just be nonsense. Not to mention you can see Super Sonic physically overpower Solaris by pushing him back whenever he rams into him.
 
Cries In Maginary World

Sonic was able to damage Dark Gaia in base form albeit was his eye he should scale(like how Link scales to Malladus despite the fact he was attacking the crystal on his head which is his weak point).Sonic can also take hits from Dark Gaia as well.There are many other 5-B feats presented in base like Shake and Violet said.
 
Yeah, Base Sonic isn't scaling from Perfect Chaos or Dark Gaia. There's the ice things and the eyeballs mentioned is why. And even Perfect Chaos in Sonic Generations is actually way weaker than his Adventure counterpart; the plot portrays him as having only 1 Chaos Emerald. And in addition to that, the only reason he could defeat him is by attacking his brain thus negating durability. Sonic and Knuckles are also shown to be equal to Chaos 0 in other appearances as well.

Individual Chaos Emeralds are also very inconsistent; sometimes even multiple Chaos Emeralds barely increase a character's power where as other times they sometimes make ones power sky rocket to the point where it turns an even match into a stomp. So I wouldn't really scale any base forms even from feats of a single Chaos Emerald.

Infinity is the strongest High 6-A character yet, but he's also shown to be well above the cast initially. His best feat was calc'd at around 7 Exatons making him 35x stronger than primal Ifrit's best feat, but Sonic did struggle with a weakened Ifrit a while back.

I still find Final Egg Blaster to be extremely inconsistent; and even Piercing the Stars at its most exaggerated statement don't even come close to it. But again, Hoshi often means planet and it's still common for us to say it intentionally meaning planet if it's regularly used on planets. As well at the consistent feats not even putting at Planet level unless of course it has all 7 Chaos Emeralds. There's also still the fact that Black Doom fears the Eclipse Cannon.
 
The Eclipse Cannon wasn't built by Eggman, so it needing emeralds doesn't matter for the tier of his machines, I could be wrong but the Death Egg in Sonic 2 could destroy planets as said on the mannual.

Black Doom doesn't fears the Eclipse Cannon, that's never implied
 
-I can understand that Sonic doesn't scale to Dark Gaia but there's several more instances of him being 5-B.Base Sonic should be 5-B and mostly everyone seems fine with that

-Chaos Emeralds are extremely inconsistent in power which is why "varies" should be stated in their profile

-Infinite very well could be 5-B/5-A.Espio states that the Sun is "world shattering" and that the sun would destroy the planet.Like how the Moon would destroy all of Termina which is 5-A for Majora

-The Final Egg Blaster would be weaker than the machines used by Eggman to truly defeat Sonic as the Final Egg Balster was never used again to destroy Sonic.It would be very odd for Eggman to have a weapon that's vastly stronger than Sonic and his Super form and not use it against him.Metal Overlord has been outright stated to be Eggman's most powerful creation (without help) this quote proves that Metal Overlord is stronger due to sheer statements.

For example.....

Darth Sidious has been stated to be the most powerful Sith Lord placing him above Darth Vader,Nihilus,Plagueis,Vitiate and etc

Metal Overlord has been stated to be Eggman's most powerful creation placing him above all other of his creations Death Egg Robot,Nega Wisp Armor and etc.The Final Egg Blaster would fall under this category as it's Eggman's creation.Also saying that Final Egg Blaster is 4-A and nothing else is massive PIS as Eggman's never tried to use it against Sonic at all.As the blast would kill him immediately.
 
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