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@DDM When Cal said that it seemed to me like he was just pulling random numbers.
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NoDarkDragonMedeus said:Super Sonic consistently struggles to face Tier 5 threats
That used to be the case. When Super Sonic's low end was 4-A, Perfect Dark Gaia was 4-A scaling to him.Oblivion Lightning said:Wouldn't Super Sonic being 4-A scale to Dark Gaia?
And both Perfect Dark Gaia and Metal Overlord are 5-A via upscaling and scaling respectively, so if Super Sonic was also 4-A they would be as wellDaBoiWhoOwnsMods said:^Like everyone else, don't really care about bringing 4-A back, but to say Super Sonic struggles against Tier 5 threats is... questionable.
Unless said T5 threat is shown (like Dark Gaia) to outright damage Super Sonic or their power is commented on being comparable to Super Sonic (Metal Overlord, though, even he never damaged Super Sonic), there's no reason to believe Super Sonic "struggled" against them. The Tier 5 fights, for the majority, have always come across as a stomp fest.
Here's the post, as you can see none of the final bosses are tier 5-A, they are either way stronger than the form that did the tier or they are tier 5 via scaling,if they are 4-A it makes the scaling make more sense since we wouldn't have Eggman make a 4-A machine and never use the power again.Theuser789 said:Let's look at every Eggman invention and final bosses to see if they are 5-A via scaling or because of their own feats.
3&K: it's because of scaling
Adventure: Chaos has a statment that he would destroy the world by Tikal, but he was using negative energy which is explicitaly weaker than positive ones.
SA2: the Eclipse Cannon wasn't built by Eggman so it wouldn't count for the power of his inventions and the Ark had a statment in the Final Story that the reaction of the emeralds would destroy the planet when the colony colided with Earth, it doesn't scales to the Final Hazard, he's 5-A via scaling.
Advance 1 and 2: it's because of scaling, they should be as powerful as the FEB.
Heroes: it's because of scaling, Metal Overlord should be as powerful as the FEB.
Shadow: Devil Doom is 5-A via scaling
Battle: the FEB is 4-A, Emerl doesn't scale to it
Advance 3:it's because of scaling, Ultimate Gemerl should be as powerful as the FEB
06: tier 2.
Rush: tier 2
Unleashed: the Chaos Energy Cannon main purpose was to awaken Dark Gaia, Dark Gaia did the 5-A feat when he was so weak he couldn't handle his own wheight: https://youtu.be/JG6KajmJXws?t=39 Perfect Dark Gaia is much stronger than that.
Rush Adventure: tier 2
Generations: tier 2
As you all can see none of Eggman's machines are 5-A via their own feats, they are via scaling, the top tier machine that Eggman built who has a feat is the FEB who is 4-A, it's fair to assume that the other top tier Eggman machines are also 4-A via being made without outside help and with the same amount of prep time, they should have the same power
Those bosses are only 5-A via scaling, If Sonic was 4-A most of them would be as well, and I already explaneid why most of Eggman's machines that fought Super Sonic should be as strong as FEB, it's Occam's razor, it's way more simple to assume that Eggman's strongest inventions without help are as strong as the FEB.DarkDragonMedeus said:Alright, I'm back, thank you all for the concerns. But I also got to get back to business.
Super Sonic, didn't exactly "stomp" any of those bosses. He won without injuries, but it's not like he one shotted anyone. But if we're going to put the word "Stomp"; then that only shows a lot of those bosses would be less than 5-A. The also still have launched Sonic and some where shown to be capable of repelling certain attacks.
And actually, Super Shadow legit did deplete all his Chaos Power, reverted to his Base form, and lost all his memories just to cancel out a Tier 5 attack from Final Hazard. Gaia Colossus was the one doing all the muscle work where as Sonic was merely stinging the eyes of Dark Gaia. But still, millions of Years ago, primal Light Gaia was evenly matched with primal Dark Gaia.
I already gave my sense that there's still 0 proof that Metal Overlord has more firepower than FEB. Not to mention Metal Overlord was also another character people keep saying he couldn't harm Sonic; implying he'd be less than 5-A. I don't think anyone of those who fight Super Sonic should be less than 5-A, but 4-A still feels like a massive stretch.
1. The statement was in Shadow the Hedgehog (The Game). Not SA2. Credibility lost?DarkDragonMedeus said:I think someone once calc'd Piercing the Yellow Sun at 5-A, which that would be our standard if we're going to assume the translation is accurate. But the more proper translation of Sonic Adventure 2 simply said destroy the planet. Anyway, 4-A is literally Quadrillions of times more than 4-C and 80 Sextillion times greater than Dark Gaia's best feat.
That's no exaggeration either, even excluding the 5-A stuff.VioletVoid100 said:Also the Tier 5 feats should be adequated towards Base Sonic. He has more Tier 5 feats than Tier 6 feats if you pay attention to story and lore in Sonic games.