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Super Sonic 4-A Return Continued

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The main reason they scale it's because of this:

(Eggman believed him to be unbeatable by anything except for the Chaos Emeralds, which would include the Final Egg Blaster. Required the combined might of Super Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles to defeat him)

It's fine except fot one thing, Eggman didn't built the Final Egg Blaster yet and we don't know if he planned that before Metal overthrowed him.
 
Considering he built the FEB not long after, it's probably reasonable to say he can build machines within the ballpark of 4-A.

Also, slightly unrelated, with 5-B Base forms and 5-A Super Forms Knuckles vs Super Mecha Sonic isn't PIS anymore, aside from speed. Just kind of funny to me.
 
The Smashor said:
Considering he built the FEB not long after, it's probably reasonable to say he can build machines within the ballpark of 4-A.
Also, slightly unrelated, with 5-B Base forms and 5-A Super Forms Knuckles vs Super Mecha Sonic isn't PIS anymore, aside from speed. Just kind of funny to me.
Click to expand...
There is nothing that proves that the Super Egg Robot that is comparable to the Final Egg Blaster, we only know it was meant to fight Super Sonic.

Knuckles doesn't scale to Super Mecha Sonic as Knuckles needs to wait for him to revert to Base to damage it.
 
The Super Egg Robot did fight Super Sonic, anyways as I said because of the timeline problems possible is the only choice, if it wasn't for that it would be just 4-A, possible is for things we aren't fully sure of, by released date the FEB already existed, so the writers could of intended to refer to it, but on the other end it doesn't fit chronologically in the canon, that's why possible was choosen
 
Tails, Knuckles, Mighty and Ray profiles had 4-A added, now all that remains is Sonic, Shadow, Silver, Blaze and Metal, who are locked ( Metal was locked by Cal, but as explaneid he's the reason for 4-A and Overlord was reached via the copying ability copying the powers of others, his base level that Eggman built him is only 5-B, Metal himself says that he transformed via his own hands), those profiles need to be unlocked
 
Bump, I think that the rest hasn't been edited yet, Tails, Knuckles, Mighty and Ray already got 4-A edited in their profiles, it's missing Sonic, Shadow, Silver, Blaze and Metal, which their profiles are locked, also the emeralds need their profiles edited as well
 
Shouldn't this thread be resolved by now?, I was neutral for the upgrade but now things have been (presumably resolved) I believe this thread should be closed (assuming the all the affected profile edits are done).
 
The real cal howard said:
The possibly 4-A for them is because of him though.
Click to expand...
As I said above, 4-A Overlord means no 4-A altogether. It means robots can be built to match or surpass the power of the Choad Emeralds and therefore the Final Egg Blaster can be superior to a power output of them.

So again, either Overlord doesn't scale, or nobody scales.
 
Except Metal Sonic went rogue & required outside data other than Eggman's own design to reach that level,which explicitly included the "Power of Chaos".Yes,Eggman can build monstrosities like the FEB,but even he was in dire need of the Chaos Emeralds after witnessing a form that was beyond his prep.
 
And it's already been addressed that Metal Overlord was constructed before FEB and that Eggman can't regularly produce weapons comparable to the FEB. And the fact that even things that did require outside sources usually lack feats reaching even close to 4-A, it's another indication of an outlier. Even the FEB itself is arguably "Beyond his prep".
 
Metal Overlord wasn't constructed by Eggman, as I said he built Neo Metal who is only 5-B, Metal even says that he transformed via his own hands, it was via prep by copying everyones power including the power of chaos, Eggman didn't built him, so Cal's arguments is invalid, Eggman built him as a 5-B, weaker than the emeralds, he reached that power via copying others powers, something that the FEB can't do.

And it can't be a outlier when tier 2 exists, Eggman can't built machines stronger than the emeralds, even Overlord, who wasn't built by Eggman but by Metal's own efforts, that's why he needs the emeralds, to make his machines stronger.

Anyways, Dark agrees that Overlord was necessary for the scaling, I know about the timelines problems, but as I said the FEB wasn't a special invention for Eggman, and for the writers the FEB already existed when they wrote the statment, that's why possible was agreed, otherwise it would be straight up 4-A, if someone please could unlock the profiles for the edits, Tails, Knuckles, Mighty and Ray already are edited
 
Just because 1-A exists in DC Comics doesn't stop 4-B Batman via stabbing Darkseid in the eye with the side of a battering from being an outlier. 4-A wouldn't be an outlier for Super Sonic if they actually had a direct feat, but the fact is they don't. Just an assumed statement. It's an outlier for Eggman and his "Regular Robots and weapons" though.
 
That comparassion is very bad DDM, Batman isn't the one with the 1-A feat, meanwhile Sonic is the one with four 2-C feats in the same form as the one that we are, and already have, acepted 4-A.

If you could please unlock the remaining profiles it would be greatly apreciated, we are only scaling it from transformation, not regular Eggman's robots, the lack of a direct feat is the reason why we choosed possible

Except that Sonic directely scales to them via beating and overpowering them DDM, unlike Batman and the 1-A.
 
Except Cal Howard later said no one is 4-A because no one tanked it which Matt also agrees. Dark649 himself also noted other problems with 4-A so actually The "Other Admins disagree with me" is false. Also, using the "Majority disagrees with you" is all quantity and no quality.

Actually, the Tier 2 feats come from Solaris, Egg Wizard, Egg Salamander, and Time Eater. Indirect feats for Sonic, not direct. And 4-A isn't even a feat at all. Everything higher than 5-A has always required outside sources, and even most 5-B stuff did. Making 4-A from the ground up an outlier for Eggman.
 
Cal acepted 4-A DDM, he acepted if we didn't put machines that Eggman built as 4-A, and then I proved his statment invalid about Overlord being built by Eggman like the FEB, so 4-A is still in the table, the problens is why possible was acepted.

Matter of fact is that 4-A was acepted and that's why the unlocked profiles were edited
 
And then he later said nobody becomes 4-A if Metal Overlord doesn't so he apparently did a U-Turn.
 
Well I try to stay away from Sonic CRTs when I can.

Anyways, it doesn't matter that no one tanked it. The fact is I seriously doubt that a random laser cannon in a spin-off is Eggman's magnum opus by a factor of millions. The Final Egg Blaster is nothing special. It's simply a big laser cannon that takes a few minutes to charge.

I seriously doubt a few minutes of charging is the difference between 5-A and 4-A. It's not like nukes where we found a specific method to generate immense amount of energy, Eggman can build stuff like the FEB in a few all-nighters. Also the comparison to DC to prove this is an outlier is BS and you know it. DC and Marvel are so full of outliers we literally have separate rules for them.
 
Yeah, what Shadow said, his reasoning was that if Eggman can built robots that can match the emeralds them he could built something stronger than them like the FEB, except that I debunked that, that's why Cal agreed with Ultimate Gemerl, because he used the emeralds

First of all the FEB isn't stronger than the emeralds because they are tier 2, meanwhile the FEB is only tier 4, so there goes that part, and secondly Eggman didn't built Overlord, Overlord was a transformation that Metal reached by himself via copying everyones power, including the power of chaos, he even says so:

"Sonic, I was created for the sole purpose of destroying you. But I could never seem to defeat you! That's why I transformed my own body with my own hands"
 
Sonic has the same problems with inconsistencies as Marvel and DC and a lot of other verses are as well. So it isn't BS. What's BS is upgrading an entire verse from some super potent weapon far above everything in the series demonstrated thus far at the time gets scaled to every boss that peaks at Tier 5 or less in terms of feats and also has their own Anti-Feats.

And I really didn't want to be blunt with this, but if we upgraded Metal Overlord and the others to 4-A, then we would absolute have to upgrade every single major Mario character to Tier 2. Mario also has random spin offs that are canon with non special weapons built from the ground up performing Tier 2 feats without Power Stars or Grand Stars. Which would in turn making every Star Tier 2. Also, even base more has more Tier 2 feats than game Sonic does in all his forms put together. He has fought and defeated 3 2-B characters in base; Dreamy Bowser, Dark Antasma, and Zeekeeper, survived hits from 2 more 2-B characters in base; Super Dimentio and Count Bleck. Both characters hell bent on destroying everything, but PIS. that's 5 2-B durability feats. He also defeated Metabug, feat, fought against Base Dimentio, and survived the destruction of a Universe. 3 more Low 2-C durability feats. And he has 12 more feats that are At least 3-C, possibly Low 2-C; and again, without power ups as he never users power stars for enhancements outside of Mario Party 2. Not to mention, there are other questionable Tier 2 feats in Mario Party done by Bowser, or other details such as Crystal Stars or the Seven Star Spirits could be assumed to be above Grand Stars based on the same logic of assuming Chaos Emeralds are above FEB. And this is covered by potential 2-B Star Spirits feat. And we got Peach dispelling Star Rod when the Star Spirits couldn't; I guess Princess Peach is undoubtedly 2-B by that logic.

Note, I heavily disagree with making every single Mario character Tier 2 in base forms, but that would be the same logic being done here to scale Gemerl, Overlord, ect from the FEB. Chaos Emeralds negative energy is only 5-A, the positive energy varies from 5-A to 2-C.

The possibly 4-A for them is because of him though.
As I said above, 4-A Overlord means no 4-A altogether. It means robots can be built to match or surpass the power of the Choad Emeralds and therefore the Final Egg Blaster can be superior to a power output of them.

So again, either Overlord doesn't scale, or nobody scales.

Basically, between what Dark and Cal are saying. Dark says Overlord being 4-A is the only thing that can make the characters 4-A, and then Cal says Overlord can't be 4-A or else no one is. Basically meaning the making no one 4-A at all is the only thing they both can agree on. And Matt agrees with this also.
 
Can you provide actual examples of tier 2 Mario weapons in spin offs?

Mario defeated Dreamy Bowser with help from the Zeekeeper. Luigi was heavily enhanced in the Zeekeeper fight. No clue who the third 2-B you're talking about is. Dimentio was probably holding back like the ****** he is. Metabug isn't Low 2-C. Base Dimentio isn't Low 2-C. Lumas and Rosalina saved Mario

Long story short, there's a lot wrong with that entire comment.
 
Dimentio was holding back yes a reason no one scales from him, and Metabug used the be Low 2-C before Dino suggested I guess Unknown is safe for now till I find where it's stated. Low 2-C Metabug is legit as long as it doesn't scale to anyone. It was actually discussed here; the feat is indeed Low 2-C, but he was too tired to continue debating was the only reason it got downgraded to Unknown. But, it's literally the same feat as Time Eater. Dimentio has created and destroyed universes and was the one who gave Base Count Bleck the same powers, so he's undoubtedly Tier 2 regardless. Mario Galaxy 2 didn't even have Rosalina, and Bowser did the Low 2-C with his own power of One Grand Star. Bowser distorted the Dream Depot with one his inventions in Mario Party 5, canon Tier 2 spin off feat not assumed to be his Magnum Opus. Mega Bug is also his own invention and not his Magnum Opus. And according to DarkAnine, Waluigi has a Low 2-C feat in Dance Dance Revolution Mario Mix.

Also edited to include more examples. And even if they're PIS, it's still all more concrete than every Sonic boss scaling from 4-A FEB.
 
Low 2-C Metabug isn't legit period. His Low 2-C was an over time feat.

Dimentio is only lightly implied to have done anything you said. If you want Low 2-C base Dimentio then go make a CRT. It will be shot down immediately. As for creating and destroying universes, by your logic Sonic would be 2-B. Effing pocket dimensions, dude. It's hypocritical and clearly biased for you to consider Maginary World full of pocket dimensions and Dimentio's dimensions to be full blown universes. Even if he is Low 2-C, Base Dimentio was obviously holding back in those fights since he wanted Mario to be alive to stop Count Bleck and helped Mario and Co. throughout the game

Bowser is so inconsistent when it comes to making machines it's stupid. In some games, for example, he's a bumbling idiot. Eggman, meanwhile, is consistently a genius inventor and is constantly stated to be as such.
 
Dreamy Bowser is a outlier, Dreamy Luigi fought the Zeekeper, not regular Luigi, and Amtasma was beatten by a Dreamy Luigi boosted Mario

Base Dimentio isn't low 2-C, his dimension is the size of a room, even Mephistus brought a statment that says that dimension D is a mini-dimension, he giving Bleck his powers is just a fan theory, it's not confirmed.

Also you are kinda being a hyprocrite DDM, you yourself said that we shouldn't compare Sonic to Mario in the Illumina thread, yet your entire argument is a comparassion with Mario, you even putted a note to not compare Marginary World with the Dream Depot.

And as I said I previously I never tried to scale every boss, first it was only the super forms and the machines that fought Super Sonic, then Perfect Dark Gaia, Overlord and Gemerl, then it was only Gemerl and Overlord, now it's just Overlord, we also tried first just 4-A, then likely, then now possible 4-A, which is what was aplied to some profiles already
 
This is all false, it does say Megabug distorts reality. Being overtime doesn't mean it isn't Low 2-C. Dimentio creating Chaos Heart and being tribe of the Ancients, the same tribe where Tippi literally notes someone who can "Bend Dimensions". And those dimensions are 100% Universes as what's been discussed on that other thread. The only one ignoring information or being biased is you. Looks at the description of World 4 of Super Paper Mario, it's described as being an entire Universe and they're the same universes as every other Universe/Dimension. And with mentions of there existing countless. Dino Ranger Black already discussed 100% the Dreams are Universes also. Dimension D is unknown sized, only the battlefield is as small as you say. And it's also the only dimension "Safe from the Void". There's still other 2-B durability feats from Super Dimentio and Count Bleck mentioned that are far more concrete than FEB.

Eggman is just as inconsistent as Bowser. And I only brought it up to explain the 100% accurate details. There is a difference that the Dreams and Dimensions are universes in Mario case while Maginaryworld merely has assumptions. We never said the dreams can't be universes rather than not a single one of the dreams withing the MaginaryWorld was never stated to be a universe other than the MW itself whereas in Mario individual dimensions and dreams actually has statements of being entire universes individually. That was why there was a rule against it. It's not hypocrisy so much as in depth information and actual standards Vs baseless assumptions and double standards. Base Mario's 3-C feats are in the same boat as Base Sonic 5-B feats, except the former is actually more consistent being 12 feats against 6 (Fought Grand Star powered Bowser and Jr 3 times each in each Galaxy game; 3 * 2 * 2 = 12. And that one Grand Star has a high end Low 2-C is as consistent as 1 Chaos Emerald'ss 5-B).

Anyway, let's wait for Dark649 to respond.
 
Dimentio creating the Chaos Heart and whatever is a fan theory, it's never confirmed, at all.

Dino Ranger said to me in that previous thread that statment about countless worlds didn't exist, or that he didn't know about it.

Mephistus linked a scan that said it was only a mini-dimension, we never see it beyond the battlefield, it's a assumption

Sonic defeated Void and survived attacks from the Time Eater, Blaze tanked a attack from the Egg Salamender in base and Marine knocked out the Egg Wizard with a energy blast, Sonic defeated Erazor who had absorved over half of the Arabians Nights and the Ifrit Golem who was going to burn half of the Arabians Nights, if we play that game of high tier feats then Sonic would also have plenty of tier 2 feats in base, there's also a emerald repeling the Time Eater ,so Mario doesn't have more tier 2 feats than Sonic

It is hyprocrise because you said to not make any comparrasions with Mario, which you are doing right now.

Mario couldn't hurt both of those characters that you mentioned because the Chaos Heart protected them, Mario surviving a hit from them is more of a anti-feat from them using the Chaos Heart power for attack, since Mario couldn't bypass the Chaos Heart barriers

The emeralds did that 5-B feat seven times, unlike the single low 2-C feat of the stars

Eggman is always portrayed as a super genius, unlike Bowser
 
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