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Super Sonic 4-A Return Continued

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I will say I don't buy into Ifrit Golem or Erazor in base being tier 2. They're destroying the Arabian Nights by burning pages in the book, that sounds more like a chain reaction as the book is tied to the existence of the reality. Erazor as Alf Layla wa-Layla is tier 2 for obvious reasons, but not his base form.
 
I know, I just posted that as a counter argument to DDM, I also don't believe in most of the tier 2 base Mario outliers being tier 2, I just posted that to say that Sonic also has outliers in tier 2 as well.

But anyways this is off-topic, let's wait for Dark and then finally finish this thread
 
Base Erazor is featless and simply scales from Base Sonic. And Ifrit Golem I know is different from Ifrit, but he too is pretty featless and scales from Base Sonic.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Base Erazor is featless and simply scales from Base Sonic. And Ifrit Golem I know is different from Ifrit, but he too is pretty featless and scales from Base Sonic.
Click to expand...
Actualy they were going to destroy half of the Arabian Nights, Erazor specificaly had absorved over half and then restored it after Sonic wished him to do it, but this is off-topic as I said
 
I have my own take on all this tbh. I see so much arbitrary nonsense it's unbearable, the very concept of the variable tier has led to many questionable decisions for the character ratings that'll have visitors of the wiki confused as hell for sure.

Anyway yes I do agree with 4-A Overlord the very fact that Eggman said the emeralds are needed to defeat Overlord without a second thought just about seals it. If Eggman can build a 4-A weapon why didn't he mention they can possibly defeat him with preparation? And aren't we forgetting that the emeralds >>> the FEB?
 
Bringing up Erazor is a little derailing. Let's focus on 4-A lol

The Chaos Emeralds are one of the most powerful things within the series second to the Super Emeralds and the Master Emerald. That's basically how it is across all continuities that they're in. So if they should logically be above 95% of anything else in-universe, why is it logical to assume that the FEB somehow has an output capacity so greatly above the low-end of the Emeralds yet so much weaker than the high-end yet the Emeralds are assumed to be unable of replicating said output?

Yes, it's a machine that Eggman had to build with preperation. But it had a charge time of less than a minute to even do a 4-A blast, and that charge up was previously taken as some sort of a big deal. The Emeralds are superior to the FEB, there's not even any denying it, so that should be noted. Saying "outlier" makes no sense, and saying "well Tier 2 covers that" is basically throwing what we're arguing for out the window.
 
Chaos Emeralds aren't outright stated to be superior to FEB, just more so assumed given the "Plot holes" argument. Also, let's save the complaints about "Variable Tier" for another thread. Especially since it's bad enough that there are concerns for 4-A. We want Tier 2 to stay as the high end do we not?
 
Actualy it's heavely implied, especialy when Eggman built it to make Emerl join him by breaking it's link with Sonic, a machine that had all emeralds, not everything needs to be directely stated
 
No, but I will say it's another than Matt and Ever have been talking about off site, and Cal also made mention of it. Not saying I agree with it. In fact I disagree with it, and think 2-C for high ends are fine due to Time Eater and Egg Salamander. Power of the Stars, which was the thing doing the Tier 2 feat was implied to be above the combined might of Chaos Emeralds and Sol Emeralds with Solaris being above that however.
 
Solaris was seemingly powered by the Emeralds, likely the negative energy. And since the Positive Energy is considered stronger then the Negative energy, I feel like it's safe to say 2-C is staying and scales directly from Solaris.
 
The Smashor said:
Solaris was seemingly powered by the Emeralds, likely the negative energy. And since the Positive Energy is considered stronger then the Negative energy, I feel like it's safe to say 2-C is staying and scales directly from Solaris.
Click to expand...
If negative energy is that strong then we'd have 2-C Chaos.
 
As I mentioned before, nothing says Solaris specifically used negative energy, but the guidebook does state that Sonic has the power and strength to defeat him.
 
Let's stop talking about the 2-C keys and focus on the subject of 4-A super forms.

And the Egg Wizard wasn't stronger than Super Sonic and Blaze, they even beat it, Eggman always exagerates the power of his inventions, in Sonic X he calls the Egg Carrier omnipotent, and Sonic was esplicitaly stated to have the power and strengh to defeat Solaris.

Matt and Ever aren't WoG, their opinions are just as important as ours.

Anyway do we wait for Dark or could someone unlock the remaining profiles?
 
I think that scaling the Final Egg Blaster above Metal Overlord solely based on Eggman's statement in Heroes is faulty.

Eggboi doesn't have the time or "prep" to make a 4-A laser cannon when Metal Overlord is right in front of them and about to kill them, nor do we know if he has completed the laser cannon at the time of Heroes. As far as we know he was still tinkering on it halfway through the events of Sonic Battle.

Reasoning that all 7 Chaos Emeralds are above the best output of the cannon via Eggman trying to get ahold of Emerl would be way simpler and direct since the cannon exists at the time.
 
Wouldn't Eggman know the true power of the Emeralds way before he even made the FEB? It's not like completing the FEB suddenly increases his knowledge about the emeralds, that's just silly.
 
We are trying to scale to Metal Overlord being stronger that the FEB.

Eggman also thought that nobody had the emeralds in Heroes as well before they showed him, if he could defeat him with prep he would have said "If only I had prep" instead of "If only we had the emeralds", he also thought that he didn't have acess to the emeralds when he made the statment.

I do agree that the low-end should be just 4-A though as well
 
4-A low end should be saved for another thread. Way later lol

Regardless, the thread's nearing 500 replies. Whether Overlord scales or not, the Super Trio and Blaze definitelt scale to >FEB. So please keep unecessary replies to a minimum, I don't think we need a third thread.
 
True, can a adim unlock the profiles please? This has gone long enough, all that remais is the super trio, Blaze and Metal
 
Save this comments since i'm not going to rewrite to the other thread:

1] 5-B

It's consistent with Sonic defeating the Chaos Emerald Absorbed forms of Chaos, only one could move a continent or split the planet. Also, Chaos-6 being empowered by six emeralds which Eggman later used to blow up the moo, currently used to scale most characters.

2] At least 5-A

It's least 5-A is from Dark Gaia's feat .

3] Why Perfect Chaos scales to it?

Stated that he was using the negative energy of the emeralds, said negative power drained from Super Sonic caused Dark Gaia to awake , like Chaos D.Gaia is a being filled with negative thoughts.

4] Why its currently used as a Low End for Most Super Forms?

Because Super Sonic easily defeated Perfect Chaos in Adventure, but in the same way he would later do in Generations by entering inside where is less durable, but Super Sonic was very casual when he did it.

4.5] Is at least 5-A Low-End necessary for the important Super Forms?

To me, it's not really that important as it's an held back/weakened state in Unleashed state from example Super Super Sonic, it's like a Low 4-C helding back to defeat a 5-A character.

5] Why Base Sonic and co. does not scale to 5-A

What was said above, also Base Sonic was only able to destroy Dark Gaia's eyes which are far less durable than its main body. 5-B is overall more consistent.

6] Base Erazor Djinn

He seemingly overthrow the arabian night creator, but that should scale only to him and not Base Sonic and co.

7] 4-A

It comes from the Final Egg Blaster , Eggman casually built this weapon and attached to the Death Egg to merely to activate Emerl original program. Despite the time period, this is seen to a very simple thing he built and was not built for any battle porpouses, there could be the possibilty that Eggman can built a battle mech with that same raw power if he was forced to, Eggman most of the times expects to fight Base Sonic not Super Sonic [In Unleashed he planned to drain his power for negative use], later on he would meet his Nega self and built 2-C mechs with him since his Nega self is kinda his successor so he has the resourches to make a tier 2 weapon happen while regular Eggman cannot as Solaris was not his creation and Time Eater was already Low 2-C before being mechanized.

8] The possibilty of scaling

With that said above, in Heroes Eggman saw Overlord as something that he could not stop as he's combined his data with everyone and was above all his creations, and what could have imagined at the time to stop it as Eggman was betrayed by Metal and immediately thought of the Emeralds [Eggman did not likely quickly gained the thought to concept a tier 4 weapon due his intelligence as there is likely not a big gap of time from Heroes where Eggman was locked to Battle, so Eggman can likely concept said weapon before the betrayal]. In Battle despite happening after Heroes, he built this weapon with no problems and threated it as something not magnificent and complex only as a special weapon for that specific need. In this period Eggman did not saw tier 2 stuff sans Void/Lumina, but this being has no connection with the Chaos Emeralds.

Even if the previous stuff is not enough, the main thing is that Eggman tested the power of one single emerald and planned to search the others in Advance 3 since and he knows that the emeralds had great power since they previously stopped Overlord, so there is possibilty that they are higher that all his types weapons at the time since he wanted to search them, again the only tier 2 being he knew at the time was only Lumina and this game takes place after Battle since Gemerl is Emerl successor, also Devil Doom remarked at 4:00 that he underestimated the true power of the emeralds meaning that they have more power than he had imagined.

9] Who can possibly access it

Fully Emerald Users like Sonic, Shadow, Silver, Blaze, Knuckles, Tails, Mighty, Ray and Overlord via the Eggman stuff.

10] Who likely cannot

The others
 
Awesome, so can the profiles be unlocked to aply the changes? Tails, Mighty, Ray & Knuckles already are edited, and those characters were the ones agreed to
 
I agree.

By the way, sorry for some stuff from the earlier 5-B Sonic revisions. You know, the ones I made before the ones that were actually successful.
 
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