Super Smash Bros Upgrades

[CloverDragon03]

Adjusted the calc

The feat took a massive hit, going down to Low 4-C+, but that's fine because I goofed it up originally so better that it's correct

 

[Armorchompy]

Wouldn't this still scale to dura for the same reason said "hax" is AP? Significantly affecting the universe makes it an AP feat. And in addition, the attack became more of an all-encompassing wave of light, which Galeem would have most certainly been exposed to in that case.

Eh, I wouldn't say being unaffected by hax necessarily means "tanking" it too. As for the light... eh? idk

Adjusted the calc

The feat took a massive hit, going down to Low 4-C+, but that's fine because I goofed it up originally so better that it's correct

Mhm, same result as my calc, looks good. Using this result the amount tanked by a character would be (disregarding cross-sectional area because there's smash characters who'd go way above 0.68, which if you calced might raise the result a bit from this): (5.5144612e+41) / (4π((1.5e+11)^2)) = 1.9503417e+18 Joules, Mountain level. Would probably get well into tier 6 with the KE calced.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Okay but here's the thing. That's contradicted by the visuals, which show that the edge of the explosion destroyed Earth, thus overcoming its GBE. That's what the characters withstand, so regardless they'd be 5-B

This is just a case where the calc doesn't line up with what's actually shown

 

[Armorchompy]

Okay but here's the thing. That's contradicted by the visuals, which show that the edge of the explosion destroyed Earth, thus overcoming its GBE. That's what the characters withstand, so regardless they'd be 5-B

This is just a case where the calc doesn't line up with what's actually shown

But they don't tank all of that explosion. They're exposed to a very tiny, man-sized portion of it, which is what I'm calculating for. The math is using the GBE, it's just that they don't tank all of it.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I mean, if we're talking that specific calc, sure...

But at the end of the day, they do withstand the Earth's destruction

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah but since they're man-sized they're only being exposed to an extremely tiny portion of that same energy. It's inevitably going to give way less than the Earth's total destruction.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I'm not talking about calcs. Just straight up: they are on Earth, Earth is destroyed, and they withstand that. I don't see why they wouldn't be 5-B off of that alone

 

[Psychomaster35]

Adjusted the calc

The feat took a massive hit, going down to Low 4-C+, but that's fine because I goofed it up originally so better that it's correct

I'm pretty sure the result can be higher by using the KE of Earth getting destroyed then accounting for surface area to get the center's energy, as I did here

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm not talking about calcs. Just straight up: they are on Earth, Earth is destroyed, and they withstand that. I don't see why they wouldn't be 5-B off of that alone

... The energy that hits the Earth with enough strength to destroy it is spread across 1.2751612e+14 m^2 of area (Earth's cross-sectional area). The energy that affects one or two m^2, which are what the characters occupy and the absolute most of the explosion that they will ever be exposed to, is obviously much less than the whole of that. They are being exposed to a small portion of the energy that destroys the earth, which is what is 5-B (or higher when you do KE). Therefore they will only receive a small amount of the 5-B energy.

 

[Sparkive]

You can also argue that the reach was on a 2-A scale considering how Palutena’s Guidance on Young Link indicates that the Smash multiverse is infinite.

As far as I understand, bad translation.
I understand that in Japanese it only says that each action creates several worlds, making it rather a number of uncountable universes, not infinite (although to be fair, it may be a bad translation, considering the limited nature of Japanese, and that I translated it with Google Translator )

link

 

[Brogeefrong]

As far as I understand, bad translation.
I understand that in Japanese it only says that each action creates several worlds, making it rather a number of uncountable universes, not infinite (although to be fair, it may be a bad translation, considering the limited nature of Japanese, and that I translated it with Google Translator )

link

Still would have 2-B

 

[That_moron2]

If final smashes canonically vary in power that means you can't assume all the other ones to scale to Supernova's full blast, especially given that just a billionth of it is shown to seriously harm smashers.

There has got to be a better term for the playable characters.

 

[Psychomaster35]

There has got to be a better term for the playable characters.

Hey, everyone wants to Smash Isabelle in her trailer so...

 

[SamanPatou]

What I mean regarding Galeem and Dharkon is that their waves aren't proven to be exactly like a force or anything, for which they would have to endure the pushback of the blast, but rather supernatural light and dark waves that reality warp what they encompass.
And they are still treated as attacks of exceptional might compared to the rest of theirs, both in scale and effect, so I don't see why they would scale to all their base attacks.

And crushing is clearly a figure of speech, because the dude annihilated a whole universe and reshaped it to its liking, it's also a choice of words in the english translations, who knows how's in jp.

 

[CloverDragon03]

What I mean regarding Galeem and Dharkon is that their waves aren't proven to be exactly like a force or anything, for which they would have to endure the pushback of the blast

Except… Galeem’s laser directly collided with Link’s shield. So yes, it does have a force

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Also, the beams destroy part of the cliff when taking the Inklings, you see the rubble flying (on mobile so can't timestamp, around 1:15)

They also stir up dust when traveling close to the ground, best seen with Bowser

 

[Armorchompy]

There has got to be a better term for the playable characters.

listen man

 

[CloverDragon03]

... The energy that hits the Earth with enough strength to destroy it is spread across 1.2751612e+14 m^2 of area (Earth's cross-sectional area). The energy that affects one or two m^2, which are what the characters occupy and the absolute most of the explosion that they will ever be exposed to, is obviously much less than the whole of that. They are being exposed to a small portion of the energy that destroys the earth, which is what is 5-B (or higher when you do KE). Therefore they will only receive a small amount of the 5-B energy.

In that case, what about scaling them to High 6-A off of Reshiram, who is a Poke Ball Pokemon in the game that they can take hits from. For reference, Reshiram's trophy description also includes its feat of being able to scorch the world

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Small correction, Reshiram is a stage hazard of the Unova Pokémon League stage. Fighters can still take hits from it though

 

[CloverDragon03]

Small correction, Reshiram is a stage hazard of the Unova Pokémon League stage. Fighters can still take hits from it though

I forgot to change that even though in my mind I wanted to

 

[Armorchompy]

In that case, what about scaling them to High 6-A off of Reshiram, who is a Poke Ball Pokemon in the game that they can take hits from. For reference, Reshiram's trophy description also includes its feat of being able to scorch the world

I dunno. In Pokémon there's clear enough context that it's done in one attack, not sure if that's really there in Smash.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

I dunno. In Pokémon there's clear enough context that it's done in one attack, not sure if that's really there in Smash.

It's the exact same phrase though, and if anything, Pokémon can act as context

 

[Armorchompy]

I recall there being more context- I think Clover and I discussed it somewhere off the blog?

 

[Hypertornado099]

Nobody should fully scale to Supernova anyways, due to surface area

 

[Armorchompy]

that's what i said yes

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

In that case, what about scaling them to High 6-A off of Reshiram, who is a Poke Ball Pokemon in the game that they can take hits from. For reference, Reshiram's trophy description also includes its feat of being able to scorch the world

This is useful information. Even if the text only was referring to Reshiram's range, it using that range would probably still scientifically result in multi-continental power.

Some people might think that there's one flaw in your idea that could render it as unusable. Reshiram might not use its full power. "In fact, legend has it that Reshiram's flames are capable of incinerating the world itself, so perhaps the world's continued safety is a sign of its goodwill.". Although Reshiram is "capable" of producing the power, "the world's continued safety is a sign of its goodwill", implies that it doesn't produce that power because it has morals and doesn't want to destroy the world as a result. It's possible that Reshiram can't use its full power without also producing collateral damage, so there's a possibility of the playable fighters not scaling to its full power.

My solution is for you to point out that fighters can survive Roar of Time from Dialga on the Spear Pillar stage. It can be considered as an attack that scales above Reshiram, because Dialga has more power stored than Reshiram yet needs to rest after using Roar of Time. Its trophy description contains the text: "Its fearsome Roar of Time attack is so powerful that it must refrain from attacking on the next turn.". Due to the magical nature of Roar of Time, collateral damage probably isn't a factor. You could also point out that Sephiroth destroys the world with the part of his Final Smash that the targets get hit by anyway, so even just that bit should scale above Reshiram.

 

[Armorchompy]

Uh, the issue isn't really if he's using his full power, although I guess it's possible he isn't, it's "we don't know if it happens in one single attack".

You could also point out that Sephiroth destroys the world with the part of his Final Smash that the targets get hit by anyway, so even just that bit should scale above Reshiram.

I think I've literally explained the concept of surface area seven times in this thread, I'm not going to do it an eighth.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I think it's supported given that even just its tail going ablaze is enough to change the world's weather

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

I think I've literally explained the concept of surface area seven times in this thread, I'm not going to do it an eighth.

Reshiram's full power feat would be multi-continent level according to what was proposed by CloverDragon03, which would be the surface of the Earth, so its "surface area". I don't seem to be mistaken, since you're also writing about surface area.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Reshiram's full power feat would be multi-continent level according to what was proposed by CloverDragon03, which would be the surface of the Earth, so its "surface area". I don't seem to be mistaken, since you're also writing about surface area.

He's talking about the Sephiroth feat and how the characters taking the edge of that explosion isn't a good feat because of their surface area and the distance from the explosion

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

He's talking about the Sephiroth feat and how the characters taking the edge of that explosion isn't a good feat because of their surface area and the distance from the explosion

The word "good" is a relative term. If people are trying to get all the playable fighters to be ranked as solar system level, then the character taking the edge of the explosion "isn't a good feat" according to those people. However, it appears to me that the feat is still better than how I imagine Reshiram could destroy the world in a way that would indicate that Reshiram has multi-continent level power. Maybe I'm underestimating Reshiram.

 

[CloverDragon03]

The word "good" is a relative term. If people are trying to get all the playable fighters to be ranked as solar system level, then the character taking the edge of the explosion "isn't a good feat" according to those people. However, it appears to me that the feat is still better than how I imagine Reshiram could destroy the world. Maybe I'm underestimating Reshiram.

No, I mean in the sense that Armor literally calced it and the durability calc was 7-A, making it worse than the Reshiram feat

 

[CloverDragon03]

I recall there being more context- I think Clover and I discussed it somewhere off the blog?

As for this, Smash pretty much has the same context as Pokemon does

 

[ShockingPsychic]

High 6-A is also consistent, Groudon's trophy description says this;

Groudon is called the Continent Pokémon, and that's not just because it lives on them. Legend has it that Groudon actually created the continents. It has a rivalry with Kyogre, said to have created the oceans, and they apparently had an epic battle long ago. Perhaps our world was born from this great battle between land and sea.

We have a calc for this too, can't find it rn, but it's also High 6-A

 

[CloverDragon03]

High 6-A is also consistent, Groudon's trophy description says this;

Groudon is called the Continent Pokémon, and that's not just because it lives on them. Legend has it that Groudon actually created the continents. It has a rivalry with Kyogre, said to have created the oceans, and they apparently had an epic battle long ago. Perhaps our world was born from this great battle between land and sea.

We have a calc for this too, can't find it rn, but it's also High 6-A

Yeah, since Kyogre is a Poke Ball Pokemon and is stated in Smash to be Groudon's rival

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

No, I mean in the sense that Armor literally calced it and the durability calc was 7-A

Good to know, but I was referring to context and scaling, putting aside mathematics. As a comparison example, you could calculate a regular bomb to be wall level, but if that bomb can one-shot a character that has planet level durability, then the calculation might not matter. I was trying to compare Reshiram's context with Sephiroth's context. Maybe it doesn't work well in practice in this case, so if that's the case, then let's just disregard what I was trying to explain.

 

[Armorchompy]

No, I mean in the sense that Armor literally calced it and the durability calc was 7-A, making it worse than the Reshiram feat

It probably gets decently high into tier 6 with the planet's KE.

Yeah, since Kyogre is a Poke Ball Pokemon and is stated in Smash to be Groudon's rival

Seems fair then. Not 100% sure on how you'd put a joule value to creating the continents/ocean though.

I think it's supported given that even just its tail going ablaze is enough to change the world's weather

This is fair

 

[CloverDragon03]

Seems fair then. Not 100% sure on how you'd put a joule value to creating the continents/ocean though.

There was a calc for it a while back at 216.31 petatons from Groudon's Pokedex entry stating that it "shaped the continents"

 

[Armorchompy]

I see. Should be fine. Legendary-tier Pichu is very funny

 

[CloverDragon03]

Alright, I'll update my proposed scaling with this

Next thing that will need discussing is the matter of Galeem