Super Smash Bros. changes

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Alrighty.

First of all, possibly a speed downgrade.

Master Hand is rated MFTL+ for "flying through solar systems in seconds". However, the calc relating to this has been debunked if I'm not wrong. And the page doesn't even link to it.

So either we scale Master Hand's speed to the Final Destination's, which is clearly MFTL+ via flying to distant galaxies IIRC. Or we put down Master Hand's speed as unknown.

Secondly.

It looks like none of the Smash Original characters are scaled to either Master Hand or Tabuu. But I see little reasons for that.

The thing about Master Hand holding back simply states how Master Hand keeps its power hidden. It seems too vague to claim that he is holding back. Even then, he is clearly defeated at the end of Classic Mode. It's hard to fake such a death. Even in Brawl's story mode. Why is the characters defeating Tabuu seen as PIS? Ganondorf himself has partially survived a hit from Tabuu, and Sonic damaged him. Both in cutscenes. And it's heavily implied that they needed to be nearly all the characters to defeat him at the end, so it's not like each of them is as strong as Master Hand or Tabuu.

It won't change much, but most smash-original characters such as Duon, Galleom, alongside R.O.B.'s and Mr. G&W's Smash versions should at least recieve some form of scaling. Probably High 3-A.

Thirdly

The Trophy descriptions of Master and Crazy Hand implies they are embodiments of concepts. "The erratic Crazy Hand embodies destruction in the Smash Bros. universe."

"Seemingly a manifestation of the destructive spirit in direct contrast to Master Hand, who is the manifestation of the creative spirit."

"Master Hand personifies creation in the Smash Bros. universe."

I think it should warrants a mentions on how he is possibly a form of concept.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Saik. I need time to think about most of this, but one major thing I'd like to point out is that MH is also scaled due to fighting beings like Sonic, Meta Knight, Shulk, and Samus

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

And that's something we can't dooo m8. Like Ant said to you about a week ago, we don't scale things from crossover like that.

The only thing close to a FTL feat in-smash is Kirby's Warp Star being stated to fly at Warp speed. Sonic, Meta-Knight etc. haven't shown FTL speed in Smash.

 

[Salavtore]

Well put.

 

[DontTalk]

2. It possibly is taken as PIS due to the fact that they before were all together were easily oneshotted by Tabuu and have not recieved any powerup afterwards.

I am also rather sceptical about durability stats of the characters.

Master Hand is ranked Universe level possibly Universe level+, because he was only defeated by Tabuu. But how does that justify the stat, given that Tabuu defeated him with ease? (used puppet strings on him and knocked him out by shielding)

Similary why is Tabuu Universe level+ durability wise? He blocked one physical punch from master hand with a shield, but aside from that?

All in all the possibility that they are glass canons would explain a lot, I think.

3. Being the personification, embodiement or manifestation of something can have symbolic meaning. A christian might say say that God is the embodiement or personification of love. That has nothing to do with conceptual nature of god, but that he is supposed to be the greatest example of that, basically.

Similary as the creator of the universe you are the manifestation of creation in symbolic sense, since you are the one person that did create everything.

Given that both to my knowledge didn't display characteristics of conceptual nature I am very sceptical about that being taken like that.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

And that's something we can't dooo m8. Like Ant said to you about a week ago, we don't scale things from crossover like that.

The only thing close to a FTL feat in-smash is Kirby's Warp Star being stated to fly at Warp speed. Sonic, Meta-Knight etc. haven't shown FTL speed in Smash.

I'm just stating what was on MH's profile last time I checked...

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Tabuu used his Off Wings to one shots all of the characters, which are either Hax or just a very powerful attack. Even in gameplay, this specific attack generally one-shots the characters. So I wouldn't take it to try to prove that Tabuu >>> Everyone. Note that they mainly won because his wings were broken.

Well Master Hand weaponize his reality warping as a normal attack. His physical ones should likely be comparable in strength. So that may be that. Also the fact that both Ganon and Master Hand took Tabuu's attacks. Master Hand being implied to have survived, and Ganon only having been defeated by the impact following the attack.

2. Admitely I wasn't sure how we treat that. I just thought it was worth bringing up.

 

[LordXcano]

I think it should be noted that there is an in-game statement of speed at the end of every match and you can barely achieve Supersonic launching speed at the highest. So I don't think MFTL+ has much stuff here.

As for AP, the Daybreak is said in its trophy description to hold enough power to "doom the world". Said weapon can be survived handidly.

 

[Antvasima]

1) I agree with scaling him from flying to distant galaxies.

2) I think that DontTalk seems to make sense.

3) I also think that DontTalk seems to make sense.

 

[LordXcano]

Why would Master Hand be scaled to flying to distant galaxies? He never does that?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I think Ant misread.

The feat is Master Hand keeping up with the Final Destnation, which can flies towards galaxies, if I'm not wrong.

 

[LordXcano]

I think Ant misread.
The feat is Master Hand keeping up with the Final Destnation, which can flies towards galaxies, if I'm not wrong.

He just hovers above it, held in place by whatever gravity+inertia stops Meta Knight from being flung off into the distance every time he hovers in one place idefinitely.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Considering Master Hand can and do outspeed it, flying completely off-stage, lift the thing and generally fly outside of it, I doubt that it's just "gravity". Since I think that people not flying off is probably gameplay mechanic.

EDIT: Adding upon that, when he "dies", he gets thrown completely off stage in the distance, where it likely shouldn't be affected anymore by the stage.

 

[LordXcano]

You're forgetting frame of reference here. When Master Hand flies into the distance he already has the speed of Final Destination "on" him. That's why a 1000 mph bullet fired off a 1000 mph train will move 2000 mph and not just sit in the air.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well he isn't "just" flying offstage in a straight line like a bullet. It's usually more like make useless twists and turns and air trick while flying in front of the stage. Not sure if it matters in this context tho.

 

[LordXcano]

The only time where he does go in front of the stage is him going in a straight line like a bullet. The rest of the time he's just hovering to the sides of it.

 

[Antvasima]

Why would Master Hand be scaled to flying to distant galaxies? He never does that?

Okay. Never mind then.