• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Super Shenron: The Dragon Who 'Possibly' got buffed from an omniscient being.

CelestialVortex01

CelestialVortex01

He/Him
316
412
Alright, so here's the deal. We all know Zeno's no slouch when it comes to wiping things out, right? I mean, the guy erased a whole hypertimeline like it was nothing.




Putting him comfortably at Low 1-C with that sweet 5D existence erasure. But what happens when someone undoes all that cosmic cleaning? Enter Super Shenron.


So, let’s talk about this gigantic, gold-plated dragon. Super Shenron is no ordinary dragon—this guy can grant "any" wish, no matter how wild. And it's not just me saying this; we’ve got sources like Zuno (the dude who literally knows everything) and the Grand Priest backing this up and Champa but nobody really cares about him. Even Zeno, the King of All, basically bows down to Super Shenron’s wish-granting powers. The guy who erased entire universes during the Tournament of Power had to respect the dragon’s capabilities. That’s no small feat.





Now, let's get to the meat of this CRT. Zeno’s erasure of multiple universes wasn’t just your everyday wipe—this was 5D EE, the kind that messes with constructs on a whole other level. But guess who reversed that? Yep, Super Shenron. He restored those universes like it was just another Tuesday. The sheer fact that he could bring back something erased on a 5D scale screams Low 1-C potential.







Possible Counterarguments and Why They Don't Hold Up:


1. "B-but Super Shenron only restored universes, not hypertimelines!"

True, but the level of erasure was still 5D. Zeno’s EE scales with his hypertimeline feat, meaning Super Shenron had to revert something on that level, even if it was just universes this time.


2. "Restoring universes isn’t the same as erasing them!"

Sure, but we’re not talking about simple resurrection here. We’re talking about undoing 5D EE, which requires power on the same scale or higher. If Super Shenron can undo that, he’s operating at a Low 1-C level.



3. "What if the wish wasn’t about restoring the universes but creating new ones?"

Even if that’s the case (which is clearly not) , Super Shenron still had to work within the framework of a 5D EE. Resurrecting universes from scratch after a 5D wipe would require Low 1-C power.


4. "Zeno’s respect for Super Shenron doesn’t mean much."

Respect from a guy who casually erases hypertimelines is a pretty big deal. Zeno doesn’t just show that kind of acknowledgment for nothing.




5. "Super Shenron might not be able to grant every wish."

But until we see a wish he can’t grant, especially with Zuno and the Grand Priest vouching for him, we have to assume he’s got what it takes.

6. "Couldn’t Super Shenron have failed if the wish was too much?"

Zeno, the Grand Priest, and Zuno don’t seem to think so, and they know a thing or two about its power.

7. "This doesn’t prove Super Shenron can defeat Zeno."

True, but that’s not the point. We’re talking about the dragon’s ability to reverse a specific kind of erasure, which does suggest Low 1-C rating.

8."There might be limits to Super Shenron’s power."

And yet, we haven’t seen them. Until we do, we should consider what he’s already done.

9. "Super Shenron Didn’t Really Reverse Zeno's Erasure, It's Just Some Fancy Magic!"

Alright, let’s break this down. Some folks out here think that Super Shenron didn’t actually reverse Zeno’s erasure; they argue it’s just some hocus-pocus or fancy wish-granting stuff. But let’s be real—Super Shenron isn’t just doing some parlor tricks here. When Zeno erases, it’s not just some regular deletion—it’s 5D existence erasure, meaning it’s wiping out stuff on a level that’s beyond time and space. Super Shenron straight up reversed that, bringing back the universes that Zeno erased. That’s not just magic; that’s some legit power on the same level as Zeno, if not beyond. So yeah, saying it’s just "fancy magic" is like saying a flamethrower is just a fancy lighter.


10. "What about future feats?"

If anything stronger comes along (which I highly doubt) , we’ll update the tiers. But right now, Super Shenron’s feat stands strong atleast possibly Low 1-C.




Conclusion:
Ignoring the 5D EE arguments It should be pretty solid that with both Zuno's statement (who's a nigh omniscient being) and Zeno who stood up out of respect for SS stating that he can grant whatever wish the individual desires and with similar statements backed up in the manga from GP, Champa there's no doubt that SS would atleast get a possibily Low 1-C via grant wishes



Alright so I'm proposing two options here:

1. Atleast 3-B physically, possibly Low 1-C via granting wishes. (both sus' and Killerdrone's pov)

2.Atleast 3-B physically, Low 1-C via granting wishes.



Agree: @Killerdrone123 (1st option) @Sus (1st option) @BestMGQScalerEver (1st option) @LuffyRuffy46307 (1st option) @Quantu (1st option) @CloverDragon03 (1st option)
@DarkDragonMedeus (1st option)



Disagree: @Qawsedf234
Neutral: @Eseseso @LephyrTheRevanchist
 
Last edited:
i agree, the current rating is a bigger assumption than low 2C

but if people disagree with a solid 1C, i suggest "at least 2C (restored 7 macrocosms), likely low 1C (the any wish stuff)"
 
Normally I would say that this type of character does not have a UES for their desire, that is, in this specific case they would have something like 5-D in restoration or Low 1-C with restoration in the tier.

But the whole thing about dragons is that the power/limitation of the wish they can fulfill is through power (ki), with for example shenron not being able to do anything against Nappa and Vegeta because they are stronger than him.

So the SS's power would have to be at Zeno's level for him to make any wish against him.

My only doubt is the issue of how hax works, since SS used restoration something that Zeno has no denial of, however Zeno has the 5-D thing. So I don't know exactly how the wiki would treat restoring universes erased by an EE 5-D.
 
AizenBankai09 said:
Alright, let’s break down this argument rq. The idea that Super Shenron’s ability to restore universes erased by Zeno is somehow limited or not on the same level is kinda missing the bigger picture.

First off, about the whole “power level” thing—you’re right that Shenron couldn’t do anything against Nappa and Vegeta because their power levels were higher than his. But we’re not talking about regular Shenron here; we’re talking about Super Shenron, who’s on a completely different level. This dude is summoned by the Super Dragon Balls, which are cosmic objects created by the D.G.Z himself. Zalama isn’t just some random guy; he’s basically the origin of all dragon-related powers. So when Super Shenron is summoned, he’s got the backing of something way beyond just “ki” power.



Now, the point about Zeno’s 5D erasure and Super Shenron’s restoration is key. Zeno’s erasure isn’t just a regular "bye-bye" button—it’s wiping stuff out from existence on a 5D scale, meaning it’s like erasing something from the entire space-time continuum. If Super Shenron can reverse that, it means his wish-granting powers are on par with, or even beyond, Zeno’s destructive abilities. You can’t just bring back something erased on a 5D level unless you’ve got the power to operate on that same level.


And yeah, Zeno doesn’t have any “denial” hax against restoration, but that doesn’t downplay what Super Shenron is doing. Restoring something that’s been erased from 5D existence is literally counteracting Zeno’s power. So, if Zeno’s got 5D existence erasure, and Super Shenron can undo that, it’s clear that Super Shenron’s powers should also be considered at least Low 1-C. The wiki usually treats stuff based on feats, and this is a feat that puts Super Shenron right in the same league as Zeno.
Click to expand...
Why did you write a huge text when I agree with you? I have no interest in reading this.
 
i always wondered why the wiki assumes he can wish all the universes back, but not the space containing them
Phsccarvalho said:
Why did you write a huge text when I agree with you? I have no interest in reading this.
Click to expand...
he responded to what u called "ur only doubt" no need to respond like that..
 
Sus said:
he responded to what u called "ur only doubt" no need to respond like that..
Click to expand...
He didn't just answer that part, just look at the first and second paragraphs he wrote, writing as if I disagreed with him or something.

The second paragraph is basically what I said about the power of the SS, but it was spoken to me as if I were disagreeing or something.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sus
Not how it works. Super Shenron only restored the universes, as Zeno erased them individually, and that's not Low 1-C. Your addressing of this fails to actually address this counterargument, because it just asserts that the erasure is Low 1-C anyway and that's it.

I disagree with the OP
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Not how it works. Super Shenron only restored the universes, as Zeno erased them individually, and that's not Low 1-C. Your addressing of this fails to actually address this counterargument, because it just asserts that the erasure is Low 1-C anyway and that's it.

I disagree with the OP
Click to expand...
Okay, I get where you’re coming from, but let's be real for once. Zeno’s erasure isn’t just some regular "poof, it’s gone" type shit. He’s erasing these universes on a 5D scale, which means they’re not just deleted from space—they’re wiped out from the entire timeline, history, everything. That’s why it’s considered Low 1-C, because it’s affecting something beyond just 3D or 4D existence.


Now, Super Shenron bringing those universes back means he’s reversing that same 5D erasure. It doesn’t change the fact that what’s being erased and restored exists on a 5D level. So, if Super Shenron can restore something that was erased from 5D existence, his powers have to be operating on that level too.
 
AizenBankai09 said:
Okay, I get where you’re coming from, but let's be real for once. Zeno’s erasure isn’t just some regular "poof, it’s gone" type shit. He’s erasing these universes on a 5D scale, which means they’re not just deleted from space—they’re wiped out from the entire timeline, history, everything. That’s why it’s considered Low 1-C, because it’s affecting something beyond just 3D or 4D existence.


Now, Super Shenron bringing those universes back means he’s reversing that same 5D erasure. It doesn’t change the fact that what’s being erased and restored exists on a 5D level. So, if Super Shenron can restore something that was erased from 5D existence, his powers have to be operating on that level too.
Click to expand...
So is the reasoning for it being 5-D erasure that his erasure move erased a 5-D construct, thus meaning that if he uses it he's erasing on a 5-D scale?
 
CloverDragon03 said:
So is the reasoning for it being 5-D erasure that his erasure move erased a 5-D construct, thus meaning that if he uses it he's erasing on a 5-D scale?
Click to expand...
This technically makes 0 sense. If I erase a 2D thing, then something restores it, it's not "3D scale restoring", it's just bringing it back from nothingness.
 
StrymULTRA said:
This technically makes 0 sense. If I erase a 2D thing, then something restores it, it's not "3D scale restoring", it's just beinging it back from nothingness.
Click to expand...
WTF is this LMAO If you erase a 2D thingy and something restores it, that's still on the 2D scale. But Zeno's erasure is on a 5D scale. Restoring something from that level isn't just simple 4D restoration—it's operating on that same 5D scale, which is why it counts as Low 1-C.
 
I don't have a problem with scaling SS's wish granting ability to Zeno, but I don't think you can say for certain all applications of Zeno's erasure are 5D in potency and I don't think a 2-C feat makes SS low 1-C.
 
AizenBankai09 said:
WTF is this LMAO If you erase a 2D thingy and something restores it, that's still on the 2D scale. But Zeno's erasure is on a 5D scale. Restoring something from that level isn't just simple 4D restoration—it's operating on that same 5D scale, which is why it counts as Low 1-C.
Click to expand...
Adding numbers isn't changing what I'm saying.

Shenron has simply restored a 4D thing after than a 5D erasure destroyed it. It's not like if a Low 1-C completely destroys a Tier 10 guy with Low Godly, then the Tier 10 character needs "5D Low Godly" to come back, it just regenerates due to their body being ultimately still completely erased, how much force put behind it doesn't interfere with the restoration.
 
Are you seriously using regeneration to back up what you just said? All respect to you bro but that sounds absolutely wrong, back in dbz when the z fighters asked shenron to kill both Nappa and Vegeta he couldn't do so, why's that? because they had much greater power than the dragon balls' creator now idk if you actually read the arguments or not We GOT ZUNO (who's literally omniscient), Grand priest ( A higher diety), Zeno himself stood up out of respect for super shenron if he wasn't on the same lvl as him if not superior why would he even bother? He's literally the OMNI-KING even if you think that his EE isn't on a 5th dimensional scale (which is not) the other arguments pretty much proves it .
StrymULTRA said:
Adding numbers isn't changing what I'm saying.

Shenron has simply restored a 4D thing after than a 5D erasure destroyed it. It's not like if a Low 1-C completely destroys a Tier 10 guy with Low Godly, then the Tier 10 character needs "5D Low Godly" to come back, it just regenerates due to their body being ultimately still completely erased, how much force put behind it doesn't interfere with the restoration.
Click to expand...
 
Hasty12345 said:
I don't have a problem with scaling SS's wish granting ability to Zeno, but I don't think you can say for certain all applications of Zeno's erasure are 5D in potency and I don't think a 2-C feat makes SS low 1-C.
Click to expand...
If that's the case super shenron would've simply said that this wish can't be granted, because it's related to the Omni kings' actions and that their power is tremendously superior to mine but he didn't, even Zenos themselves said that he can grant any sort of wish without limitations
 
I mean I too would stand out out of respect if an ant resurrects another one I crushed, but that doesn't make the ant Human level.
 
AizenBankai09 said:
If that's the case super shenron would've simply said that this wish can't be granted, because it's related to the Omni kings' actions and that their power is tremendously superior to mine but he didn't, even Zenos themselves said that he can grant any sort of wish without limitations
Click to expand...
Right, so I don't have a problem with SS scaling to Zeno. But I don't think you have proven Zeno erased the universes on a 5D scale. I also am confused on how that would even work, 4D objects don't even exist on a 5D scale so could you explain what it means for 4D objects to be erased on a 5D scale?

To be clear, I don't think the 5D erasure point is important to the scaling, and I do agree with SS scaling to Zeno at the very least in wish granting potency.
 
I think I'll have to take Stryms side on this. Erasing a 4-D thing through 5-D means doesn't null the power to bring it back on a 4-D scale. It just turns it into nothingness which wouldnt even need 5-D hax to bring it back. The reasoning is very faulty here.
 
AizenBankai09 said:
He restored multiple erased macrocosom on a fifth dimensional EE scale , what's so hard about it?
Click to expand...
Tf is even "5th dimensional EE scale". Powerscaling slop right here.

It just was erased with a 5D potent EE, that's it. By this logic a Tier 10 with Low-Godly regen who is obliterated from a Tier 1 would need "Tier 1 Low Godly" to come back, when all it needs to do is restore its body from nothingness.
 
Hasty12345 said:
Right, so I don't have a problem with SS scaling to Zeno. But I don't think you have proven Zeno erased the universes on a 5D scale. I also am confused on how that would even work, 4D objects don't even exist on a 5D scale so could you explain what it means for 4D objects to be erased on a 5D scale?

To be clear, I don't think the 5D erasure point is important to the scaling, and I do agree with SS scaling to Zeno at the very least in wish granting potency.
Click to expand...
Zeno doesn't hold back when erasing that was never shown he simply nukes anything around him I don't think he can even limitize his erasure to be on a 4th dimensional scale or 3D etc, even if the majority of people disagree with the 5th dimensional EE reasonings, the other statements should be more than enough
 
StrymULTRA said:
Tf is even "5th dimensional EE scale". Powerscaling slop right here.

It just was erased with a 5D potent EE, that's it. By this logic a Tier 10 with Low-Godly regen who is obliterated from a Tier 1 would need "Tier 1 Low Godly" to come back, when all it needs to do is restore its body from nothingness.
Click to expand...
I meant 5D potent EE bro 😭🙏, again regen hax has nothing to do with the Tier 😶

We don't have Low Godly regen negation; [5D]
 
Leaving aside the universes restoration sheningan, I think that some proof of Super Shenron being capable of having Low 1-C potency would be Zamasu. After Zamasu fused with the universe, he was capable of extending through the 5D timelines to reach the present.

And, afaik, the thing that allowed all of that was the immortality that Super Shenron bestowed to Zamasu.
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
Leaving aside the universes restoration sheningan, I think that some proof of Super Shenron being capable of having Low 1-C potency would be Zamasu. After Zamasu fused with the universe, he was capable of extending through the 5D timelines to reach the present.

And, afaik, the thing that allowed all of that was the immortality that Super Shenron bestowed to Zamasu.
Click to expand...
that would require us accepting low 1-C Infinite Zamasu
 
Eikichi_Sensei said:
If I recall this was rejected before, even DDM made the same comment but never provided the scan he mentioned in that thread. (Link)
Click to expand...
The interview was stated many years ago, back in like 2018. I do not remember the exact source, but Super Shenron can grant wishes that even include the death of Zeno, the destruction of all existence, or even the death of Super Shenron himself.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
The interview was stated many years ago, back in like 2018. I do not remember the exact source, but Super Shenron can grant wishes that even include the death of Zeno, the destruction of all existence, or even the death of Super Shenron himself.
Click to expand...
I think it'd be better to find the source first before using it as a reason to vote IMO
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

TiltedFN
  • Locked
Zeno and Super Shenron upgrades.
2
Replies
66
Views
6K
DarkDragonMedeus
DarkDragonMedeus
RigelBR7
Amazo upgrade to Low 1-C, possibly 1-C.
Replies
6
Views
674
Vyfourthaccount
Vyfourthaccount
Digital_Franz
Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint Verse Creation: The Cosmology Part 2
Replies
26
Views
4K
Danny33wise
Danny33wise
BasedNecoScaler69
  • Locked
Super Shenron Low-1C real?
2 3
Replies
83
Views
6K
BasedNecoScaler69
BasedNecoScaler69
ChoursDropoff
  • Locked
Dragon Ball super hax addition
2
Replies
60
Views
5K
AwkguyDB
AwkguyDB
Back
Top