Super Shenron: The Dragon Who 'Possibly' got buffed from an omniscient being.

[LuffyRuffy46307]

According to your arguments, because Zeno doesn't resist Reality Warping, it would never scale to AP. Since Sheron could be 11-C and still turn Zeno into a carrot if he wanted to.

So power is just his highest displayed feat, which is Tier 2.

Well, we are talking about a cosmic being that even Zeno says he can do everything, including erasing Zeno who resisted his EE 5D

 

[Hellformer]

Makes sense to me

 

[Sus]

So power is just his highest displayed feat, which is Tier 2.

but the profile lists him at 54u when his best feat is actually 21u
that's why i proposed at least 2C (his feat) possibly low 1C
it doesnt make sense to assume he can affect all universes but not the space containing them

 

[Qawsedf234]

doesnt make sense to assume he can affect all universes but not the space containing them

Affecting the universes is effecting the space. The Low 1-C rating comes from an uncountable infinite snapshot of points due to two temporal dimensions.

 

[Sus]

Affecting the universes is effecting the space. The Low 1-C rating comes from an uncountable infinite snapshot of points due to two temporal dimensions.

shenron restored them from complete historical erasure though? zeno didnt just destroy them, he erased them alongside their history
im not saying this is tier 1 proof, im just saying the current tier isn't very accurate


btw, do u disagree entirely, or do you accept a possibly?

 

[Qawsedf234]

shenron restored them from complete historical erasure though?

Which is a 2-C feat. Since it's a finite number of snapshots.

Well, we are talking about a cosmic being that even Zeno says he can do everything, including erasing Zeno who resisted his EE 5D

If the wish is to defeat Zeno and he has, per yourself, no resistance to Shenron's reality warping then there's no AP involved. It's only hax, which would scale to power output.

disagree entirely, or do you accept a possibly?

I don't think Shenron scales unless you can prove Zeno would resist all of Shenron's power and it's just strength vs strength.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I don't think Shenron scales unless you can prove Zeno would resist all of Shenron's power and it's just strength vs strength.

I mean, from what I've seen, tier 1 is just for wishes.

And power itself has something to do with this for the shenron.

Shenrons, even with their hax and reality distortion, can't do anything against someone who is simply stronger.

Even though the Shenron we know can do everything he can, he couldn't do anything against Nappa or Vegeta because they are simply stronger (They didn't gain resistance to Shenron's powers, as this is a limitation of the Dragon Balls in general)

 

[Sus]

Which is a 2-C feat. Since it's a finite number of snapshots.

i dont really understand, can you alaborate? currently the profile assumes shenron can affect all 18 macrocosms, but not the timeline
this is unfounded and the feat listed is just 7 macrocosms

 

[Qawsedf234]

i dont really understand, can you alaborate? currently the profile assumes shenron can affect all 18 macrocosms, but not the timeline

Dragon Ball is only Low 1-C because it's accepted that the Timestream is a hyper-timeline and contains an uncountable infinite number of 4D snapshots.

Restoring the Macrocosms is just a Tier 2 feat, as unless you effect that hyper-timeline nothing goes into Tier 1.

 

[AizenBankai09]

Dragon Ball is only Low 1-C because it's accepted that the Timestream is a hyper-timeline and contains an uncountable infinite number of 4D snapshots.

Restoring the Macrocosms is just a Tier 2 feat, as unless you effect that hyper-timeline nothing goes into Tier 1.

SS was stated from Zuno the omniscient fella and The Grand priest and Zeno on top of them that he can grant any wish without any limitations so a possibily could work because he should be able to affect the hypertimeline if not completely erase it if someone wishes so.

 

[Sus]

Dragon Ball is only Low 1-C because it's accepted that the Timestream is a hyper-timeline and contains an uncountable infinite number of 4D snapshots.

Restoring the Macrocosms is just a Tier 2 feat, as unless you effect that hyper-timeline nothing goes into Tier 1.

yes, and my point is that we scale shenron to all macrocosms without the timeline, something baseless
he should scale to 7 macrocosms not 18

can u tag other staff to conclude the t1 proposal?

 

[AwkguyDB]

i agree with option 1

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

1. "B-but Super Shenron only restored universes, not hypertimelines!"

True, but the level of erasure was still 5D. Zeno’s EE scales with his hypertimeline feat, meaning Super Shenron had to revert something on that level, even if it was just universes this time.

Disagree. A Tier 9 being with Mid-Godly Regeneration can return from being erased by a Tier 1 being with Low 1-C using Existence Erasure, as the potency of the EE doesn't matter if the erased aspect is within the Tier 9 being's ability to recreate. It's a similar scenario here.

Super Shenron can restore universes because Zeno's action was limited to erasing universes. The fact that it was done with 5D Existence Erasure is irrelevant, as Super Shenron only needed to restore the universe and its history.

2. "Restoring universes isn’t the same as erasing them!"

Sure, but we’re not talking about simple resurrection here. We’re talking about undoing 5D EE, which requires power on the same scale or higher. If Super Shenron can undo that, he’s operating at a Low 1-C level.

3. "What if the wish wasn’t about restoring the universes but creating new ones?"

Even if that’s the case (which is clearly not) , Super Shenron still had to work within the framework of a 5D EE. Resurrecting universes from scratch after a 5D wipe would require Low 1-C power.

No, it doesn’t work that way. Super Shenron doesn’t need to counter Zeno's EE directly to undo his actions; the two actions are separate. For instance, if a Low 1-C being uses EE to erase a planet, unless their EE includes some specific conditions that prevent what they have erased from being restored, even a Tier 9 with Low 2-C time reversal could bring that planet back.

4. "Zeno’s respect for Super Shenron doesn’t mean much."

Respect from a guy who casually erases hypertimelines is a pretty big deal. Zeno doesn’t just show that kind of acknowledgment for nothing.

Respect doesn't have to originate from something or someone being equal to you in power.

5. "Super Shenron might not be able to grant every wish."

But until we see a wish he can’t grant, especially with Zuno and the Grand Priest vouching for him, we have to assume he’s got what it takes.

6. "Couldn’t Super Shenron have failed if the wish was too much?"

Zeno, the Grand Priest, and Zuno don’t seem to think so, and they know a thing or two about its power.

7. "This doesn’t prove Super Shenron can defeat Zeno."

True, but that’s not the point. We’re talking about the dragon’s ability to reverse a specific kind of erasure, which does suggest Low 1-C rating.

8."There might be limits to Super Shenron’s power."

And yet, we haven’t seen them. Until we do, we should consider what he’s already done.

This situation assumes that, because no limits have been explicitly shown, the character's abilities should be scaled to the highest level within the verse. I disagree with this approach. The safest and most logical option would be to restrict Super Shenron's abilities to what has been explicitly demonstrated, rather than speculating on potential, hypothetical capabilities that haven't been confirmed.

 

[Jaakor48]

Disagree. A Tier 9 being with Mid-Godly Regeneration can return from being erased by a Tier 1 being with Low 1-C using Existence Erasure, as the potency of the EE doesn't matter if the erased aspect is within the Tier 9 being's ability to recreate. It's a similar scenario here.

Super Shenron can restore universes because Zeno's action was limited to erasing universes. The fact that it was done with 5D Existence Erasure is irrelevant, as Super Shenron only needed to restore the universe and its history.


No, it doesn’t work that way. Super Shenron doesn’t need to counter Zeno's EE directly to undo his actions; the two actions are separate. For instance, if a Low 1-C being uses EE to erase a planet, unless their EE includes some specific conditions that prevent what they have erased from being restored, even a Tier 9 with Low 2-C time reversal could bring that planet back.

Respect doesn't have to originate from something or someone being equal to you in power.

This situation assumes that, because no limits have been explicitly shown, the character's abilities should be scaled to the highest level within the verse. I disagree with this approach. The safest and most logical option would be to restrict Super Shenron's abilities to what has been explicitly demonstrated, rather than speculating on potential, hypothetical capabilities that haven't been confirmed.

I believe OP dropped the restoration point, iirc, the thread is arguing for possibly low1c via wish granting because of the omniscient zuno and Zeno noting it can grant anything

 

[ChoursDropoff]

Bump