That makes no sense Vegito would have all the forms of Goku and Vegeta and even more Vegito didn’t go above SSJ because he didn’t need anymore than that if Goku is gauging Vegitos full power he would not stop at SSJ Even goten and trunks can go ssj3 something they can’t do individually this is just a really weird assumption it’s like assuming Future trunks Vegito can’t go ssjg or ssj2 because he’s one shown SSJ and SSJB
Bruh...she literally says tens of times, which at minimum means 20x (since tens is plural, not singular), similar to how we assume several times at minimum means 3x...
What do you think?
Well we know that SSJ Grade 3 doesn’t increase speed but we know SSJ2 and SSJ3 do
yeah, but since we have their multiplier via being <<< grade 3, we can't really apply the power multiplier to speed since we are just upscaling the power multiplier to them
well no the power of SSJ2 far supersedes grade 3 so the speed of SSJ would absolutely be affected based on these multipliers.
Why does one means the other here?
The reasoj being?
the oozaru is also a power multiplier and not a speed one, i see nothing oj the profiles that agrees on speed also being equally increased, also grade 3 is explicit in not increasing speed, and all we have for ssj2 and 3 is that it is >>>earlier forms, but no earlier forma increase speed by 10 times
Ssj1 is explicit in raising speed by that level also, since it is also compared to Kaioken and show to work like it in the freeza saga, ssjB is just ssj1 but godly power so, again, no reason to make that a 10x boost in anything but power since they are upscaling from a purely power boost
Unless there is something thar does say we can't really say that it is, the multiplier page says that we need proof of what stats are multiplied, thr thread that aproved the 10x multiplier didn't suggested it for speed, so you would need a thread to aprove it for speed
Do we have 3 staff aprovals? These are pretty big multiplier additiona after all
It’s similar to how SSJ is 50x speed and power despite stated to be 50x BPL
The statement comes from grade 3 and not ssj2 or 3, therefore it is not the same situation, plus we have proof ij the series that the speed is increased the same way via the kaioken 20x scaling, here we are upscaling from a strictly power multiplier, not similar at all
Not at all, it increases speed, but we have no statement it increases as much as speed, all we have is the upscale from grade 3's 10x strictly power multiplier, the burden of proof to prove that the speed is multiplied as much as the attack we can't really assume that it does, again, rule of the multiplier page
Why tf would they?But if SSJ grade 1 speed multiplier and Kaioken multiplier gets removed then
The speed increased here too I don’t see what ur implying unless you’re implying there isn’t a speed increase we know SSJ had a speed increase when it was faster than KKx20
it did yeah, it is unquantifiably above grade 2 and 3 in power and speed, however we only have a multiplier for power in grade 3 while an unquantifiably boost in speed for grade 2, so we can only scale the power multiplier aince that is the only one we know for it
This is exactly what i said, why are you repeating the exact same thing that i said.
For power and for grade 3, which is noted to not raise speed but lose it in trade for power, so we can't scale the 10x multiplier to speed in ssj2 and 3 since they are just upscaling from grade 2 and 3, which have an unquantifiable increase in speed
And said other forms have the multiplier only to power and specifically not to speed, that is the whole point of grade 3
an unquantifiable one yes, the kaioken ssj1 example i gave only works because we have a stated multiplier for speed and power for kaioken, i don't know how can you even consider both situations similar when they have nothing to do with each other
nope, we do not, ssj1 scales 2x above 20x kaioken via scaling to 100% freeza which is 2x his 50% making it consistent, plus the fact that ssj1 is compared to kaioken, for the situation of grade 3? Well, we have statement against 10x speed multiplier, while ssj2 and 3 we are just upscaling from grade 3, if grade 3 has no 10x speed miltiplier, then the things upscaling from it will also not have it, just like how a character 10x stronger than another character will not be assumed to be 10x faster automatically
The examples you have have evidence to multiply speed by the same ammount, grade 3 does not, it would not be a double standard since they completely different situations
You're wrong, it's not unquantifiable at all. You can't multiply power level without also multiplying speed!
Does it have any statements about it multiplying speed? Or any showings showing as such?
Does it have any statement that it multiplies speed by 10x as well?
Cell was playing with trunks there tbf, and we also don't know how much faster perfect cell was compared to semi perfect cell, so we can't say that he couldn't react to him before hand
No? The verse page says nothing on this, what are yoh talking about?
Grade 3 has no statements that it multiply any speed by 10x whatsoever, so the one who has to prove that it does is you
Says who?
Says who? By this logic everyone who is better in one stat in the series would be better in every other stat then everyone else who has a stat lower than them, which is show to not be true with faster chars with inferior power level than other superior chars
Yeah, but we don't know the speed multiplier, that is the point
Argument from Incredulity.
"By this logic everyone who is better in one stat in the series would be better in every other stat then everyone else who has a stat lower than them"
Yeah and the fact that there is a speed amp if we only gave SSJ a speed increase for being above kk x20 then SSJ is a 20x increase aswell so itd be a double standard otherwise the fact that’s theres a speed amp and a multiplier is enough
It really isn't, it is me asking for proof of affirmations that you are making, how is that me arguing from incredulity when i have given examples of multipliers that do what i am asking for you to prove for this one?
all that this note is saying is that raising ki = raising every stat, which is kind of obvious since ki is what gives the stats, it is not saying that multiplying power by 10x will multiply every stat by 10x, we don't have a statement that every growth in strength is proportional to one another, we don't have a statement that a multiplier in one stat will multiply another stat by the same ammount, the note never says anything ammount every multiplier multiplying every stat equally
says who? Does it have any statement that it multiplies anything but power? Give me that and i will concede immediatly
i should be the one saying that to you, since that is exactly what you are doing
Not really? Dispo is comparable to toppo even tho he is faster than toppo
And what makes them exeptions exactly? When was this rule ever stated? More over, when was this "rule" ever accepted? Because the only note in the verse page is jot saying that at all
We give it 50x because it is compared to the kaioken, plus it is far superior to 100% freeza, who is 2x faster than his 50%, who is superior to kaioken 20x goku, so ssj1 in the series is shown massive superiority to someone who is superior to a hypotetical kaioken 40x
Hypothetical Kaioken x40? Wonder how you got that number…
from freeza saying that he was using 50% of his power at his fight with goku, in that same time he was shown somewhat superior to kaioken 20x goku, and ssj1 goku is superior to 100% freeza, i never use PL for anything at all, you can be sure of that
It is shown to be this high, 100% freeza will be 2x his 50% obviously, and said 50% was keeping up with 20x goku, with ssj1 goku being able to speed blitz freeza, with it being compared to kaioken iirc
Again, is it ever said to multiply speed by the same ammount as it increases power? This is the main point if contention here
the multiplier does apply, it is just that the multiplier is for power and not speed, since we have no statements or showinga for it be a multiplier for speed also
when have i said that ssj2 is inferior to the power multiplier of 500x of grade 3?
that is the point, it does, it is just that the multiplier has no proof of being a speed multiplier of 500x
Ok, why are you ignoring the 100% being 2x the 50% freeza point? That is the important part for that
If you ignore the freeza percentage point then yeah, but unfortunely for you, that is the main point that made the multiplier be accepted in the first place
Tbh the power multiplier should also be higher, but meh, we have little to work with anyway
No but it’s shown to be a speed amp and that strong consistently when a amp is given in relation to its power which is why SSJ has a 50x speed boost
Omega is stone walling and people are falling for it. So basically typical day at the office
No, the reason is because it is shown to be by blitizing a 100% freeza who in 50% is superior to kaioken 20x goku
Also was compared to kaioken iirc, i will look for the exact statement ok?
It has a speed boost, just an unquantifiable one
We don't, we really do not
Let say that it is just unquantifiably above 100% freeza, what about it?
This confused me even more ngl
It is fine dude
DDM seems fine with SSG being 500x above SS3 which is already 500x base but I think we need more staff approval still
