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and goten, or trunks never learned ssj2 let alone 3, i fail to see how this is valid.
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Super Saiyan God Multipler
- Thread starter AwkguyDB
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Goten and trunks never learn even ssj2, yet gotenks can go SSJ3. Your point?
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Is there anything else left to complete?
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I do not remember going that far. I remember excepting the 250,000x times minimum via the gap between SSJ3 and SSG being bigger than the gap between SSJ3 and base form. Not sure how we can implement how strong Vegito would have been during the BoG saga though. Fusions are wacky inconsistent.
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well yeah we don't know how strong he would have been, but as per goku's words, vegito wouldn't have been enough to even fight him, so that is why we were taking the multipliers of vegito's SS multipliers.
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I thought you agreed but we already explained the fusion increase seemingly being bigger overtime since the guides give us an explanation on this potara fusion is an A*B increase
Pre Ritual Vegito being weaker than SSJG goku but Post Ritual Vegito being stronger than SSJB Goku can be explained by Goku and Vegeta’s power at that point being multiplied and that unknown multiplier being stronger than SSJB
With the statements we’ve had that not even Vegito would be able to do anything stated by Goku at King Kai’s planet to him becoming confident with the SSJG multiplier
That means SSJG>SSJ3 Vegito>Vegito Base (guides state he’s stronger than SSJ3)
But if I’m getting your explanation right youre okay with that multiplier on the basis that the gap between SSJG and SSJ3 would be bigger than the gap between base and SSJ3 so it’s like SSJ3 x SSJ3?
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What about the ssj2 multiplier
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Keep in mind Fusions are entirely different individuals from their counterparts and can do everything they can. For example, Kefla could use the Berserker (green hair) form that was exclusive to Kale. Vegito having SSJ3 should be fine.
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I'm not in favor of basing the entire scaling on a form that Vegito was never shown to use.
If we had the specific statement of "Not even Vegito with Super Saiyan 3 could do anything" then that'd be fine. But that's not what has been said.
If we had the specific statement of "Not even Vegito with Super Saiyan 3 could do anything" then that'd be fine. But that's not what has been said.
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You are basing your entire hypothetical scenario that has no basis. If goku said vegito can't do shit to beerus, why would goku only refer to base/ssj vegito? If vegiti could've done something, goku would've said "Maybe ssj3 vegiti can do something to beerus". But nah, goku confirmed that vegiti can't do shit.
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Would you agree with the low ball?
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Also the Mid Ball for 250,000 is Ssj3 Goku x Ssj2 Vegito, not ssj3
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- Thread starter
- #333
Here's the problem with that reasoning
With the OP the daizenshuu 4 and 7 almost clear as day says that Fusion takes on the forms and techniques of the Fusees. Both Fusees are able to use SSJ2. That fact alone should be enough to reason that a hypothetical SSJ2 Vegito was factored in against Beerus if not a Grade 3 Vegito which should obviously be possible.
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(SSJ3 Z Vegito is a thing in Heroes ehehehe)
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Vegeta, however mid ball still works, cuz ssj3 goku x ssj2 vegito = mid ball
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- Thread starter
- #339
I can see the case of "Vegeta no Supa Seiya Tres" being an argument but it wouldn't change the mid-ball
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Bump
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It feels incredibly silly to claim SS3 shouldn't be taken into account when Goku knows how to do it whereas Goten and Trunks never learned even SS2 and can use SS3 while fused. Either way as Padaruyos says, it isn't really relevant right now due to multipliers. SS2 Vegito should be accepted since Goku and Vegeta both have SS2, pretending they wouldn't factor in SS2 with Vegito would be absolutely absurd.
Put another way, am I meant to believe a potara of Goten and Trunks can't go SS3 when their dance fusion can? If I'm meant to believe their potara could use SS3 then why wouldn't Vegito be capable of at least SS2? What's the actual argument against that? There has to be some sort of actual logic presented for why Goten and Trunks can do it while fused while Goku and Vegeta wouldn't be capable.
Sure, I get the concerns over using 'hypothetical' forms for Vegito but there is no evidence to argue he isn't capable of using those higher forms. At the very least Super Saiyan 2 should be taken into consideration.
Put another way, am I meant to believe a potara of Goten and Trunks can't go SS3 when their dance fusion can? If I'm meant to believe their potara could use SS3 then why wouldn't Vegito be capable of at least SS2? What's the actual argument against that? There has to be some sort of actual logic presented for why Goten and Trunks can do it while fused while Goku and Vegeta wouldn't be capable.
Sure, I get the concerns over using 'hypothetical' forms for Vegito but there is no evidence to argue he isn't capable of using those higher forms. At the very least Super Saiyan 2 should be taken into consideration.
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Shouldn't this guideline prohibit the multiplier for Super Saiyan God?
There is no direct statement for Super Saiyan God having a set multiplier, or what value it would be.
There is no direct statement for Super Saiyan God having a set multiplier, or what value it would be.
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- Thread starter
- #344
We have no direct statement for SSJBlue or for anything past Grade 3 yet what we use both 50x SSJG and 10x SSJ respectively. Because a set 500x multiplier is being compared to SSJG on top of Goku's SSJ3 form via Vegito, this would be acceptable. All we are doing is multiplying two set multipliers together to get two forms that are present in the show (SSJ2 which the wiki accepts as 500x on top of SSJ3 which is also 500x). Its not that complicated.
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My guy we’ve said many times this wouldn’t be a set multiplier its just a way to upscale currently SSJB would be scaled 50x above SSJG because SSJG is SSJG x SSJ if SSJG is stronger than SSJ3 x SSJ3 or SSJ3 x SSJ2 then we can use that as a way to upscale like we do for SSJB we’re using accepted multipliers
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I'm not sure given I'm not knowledgeable on how we do multipliers for these transformions to a degree, but if I had to give my thoughts (to keep things moving) I think the OP is fine and think the mid end works honestly.
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yep, big change
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we still get a speed boost for ssjg, cause ssj3 goku x ssj2 vegito and since ssj3 goku >>> ssj goku and ssj2 vegito >> ssj vegito we still get a extra 50x boost from ssjg
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did this get accepted yet?
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What's the consensus here?
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Just waiting for more staff
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- Thread starter
- #358
all tiering remains the same this just gives us an idea on how strong characters get past the BoG Goku Baseline.
DDM and Lord Griff agree with SSJG = our accepted multiplier for SSJ2/3 x our accepted multiplier SSJ2/3 due to SSJG Goku of the Battle of Gods arc being superior than Vegito at that time.
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