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Sun Wukong VS Konpaku Yomu (Lego Monkie Kid VS Touhou Project) 6/7/0

Angelzewolf said:
Youmu's Spirit Manipulation does a lot more than just chip away at someone's spirit. If I'm reading the page correctly, she can also absorb it to amp herself while weakening Wukong as the battle continues (assuming stuff is equalized?). I don't a corresponding resistance on Wukong's page (but I am blind) so, as the battle continues, Youmu would theoretically get stronger while Wukong gets weaker.

Invulnerability doesn't really matter since both of them can become invulnerable. Though that in addition to Shockwaves, forcefield, and the ability to slow down attacks after a certain vicinity, could help Youmu in avoiding attacks Goku dishes out. The cloning of his is what makes it difficult. If the battle continues, then the clones would (I think) become less effective thanks to the aforementioned spirit manip. (I also think she has a starting speed advantage considering she follows a massive scaling chain and is arguably near the top of said scaling chain, but I don't know what Wukong's looks like).

Are the ability cards restricted for Youmu? If not, then those gives her even more options to snag a victory. If they are, then it'd probably depends on a few factors.

Wukong, at least on his profile, is stated to act cocky and impulsive. I don't think he'd aim to finish the fight as soon as it starts especially since (according to what I've seen here) both parties are honorable people. I can see the fight prolonging enough for Youmu to eventually surpass Wukong. Youmu also isn't shy from bombarding others with hundreds of bullets.

Overall, I'm leaning towards Youmu so I'm voting for Youmu. Though, really, his dumb cloning is the main thing that makes me hesitant
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Only the feats for the scrolls and spacetimes are equalized, not their stats. Thing is, Wukong is capable of destroying countless spacetimes while he is holding back. When he stops holding back, he is capable of one shotting characters doing such feats

Wukong's speed is faster than characters who percieved other characters with infinite speed as frozen. Not only that, he can amplify his speed further with his nimbus cloud

Wukong was only cocky because he was highly angry, focused on one person I believe. Other than that, he should be pretty smart in fights overall
 
Phsccarvalho said:
You know that asking for this type of direct information is prohibited on vsbattle, right?
Click to expand...
It says it's only prohibited if there's no references. Thing is when the author said "beyond physical laws", he was only answering if the casts can escape a blackhole or no. Not only that, the writer himself said it was also to soldify their time travel abilities in season 4
luyGzkG.png

Remember that the author himself said they operate beyond physical laws, nobody asked him directly if they are. So no direct asking information applies here
 
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Is there a common consensus on who's faster or is that a non-factor? Cause I've been seeing Youmu's scaling chain be talked about way more and I think it's larger if I remember what I've seen last about it
 
Sdjlakjh said:
Only the feats for the scrolls and spacetimes are equalized, not their stats. Thing is, Wukong is capable of destroying countless spacetimes while he is holding back. When he stops holding back, he is capable of one shotting characters doing such feats
Click to expand...

I wasn't equalizing their stats (though didn't OP mention he was making their AP the same?), I was wondering if we were equalizing their energy systems. Since, again, in Touhou, the spirit manip also weakens the target and as Youmu absorbs spirit, she also becomes stronger. Aka, Wukong gets weaker during the fight while Youmu gets stronger.

Sdjlakjh said:
Wukong's speed is faster than characters who percieved other characters with infinite speed as frozen. Not only that, he can amplify his speed further with his nimbus cloud
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Going off the profiles, Cirno has infinite speed and Youmu drastically upscale above her. I don't think Touhou has a scene of a character statuing another character, but Marisa is faster than Cirno, and Aya blitzes Marisa. Youmu downscales from Aya as she could briefly overwhelm her with her speed. Basically—

Aya >> [speed blitz] Marisa > Cirno = Infinite speed (with Youmu being between Aya and Marisa). That's ignoring other characters that can fill said gaps or how much more powerful Marisa is than Cirno. So, I don't think Wukong is gonna be speedblitzing. Though I guess the speed, on a surface level, is fairly even. But again, depends on the actual scaling chain—

Sdjlakjh said:
Wukong was only cocky because he was highly angry, focused on one person I believe. Other than that, he should be pretty smart in fights overall
Click to expand...

I'm just going off the profile. You can be smart and cocky. Wukong can be smart in combat, and still falter on occasion due to his behavior. But it's listed as a weakness, so I'm taking it into account.

Again, the main advantage I see Wukong having is his cloning which, I think, shouldn't be too bad since Youmu has the range to strike multiple foes at once and maintain distance. (I'm going to assume her player system cards are restricted.)
 
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Sdjlakjh said:
Only the feats for the scrolls and spacetimes are equalized, not their stats. Thing is, Wukong is capable of destroying countless spacetimes while he is holding back. When he stops holding back, he is capable of one shotting characters doing such feats

Wukong's speed is faster than characters who percieved other characters with infinite speed as frozen. Not only that, he can amplify his speed further with his nimbus cloud

Wukong was only cocky because he was highly angry, focused on one person I believe. Other than that, he should be pretty smart in fights overall
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@Ruler_Star_Kuma I elaborated on the speed part in second paragraph
 
Angelzewolf said:
I wasn't equalizing their stats (though didn't OP mention he was making their AP the same?), I was wondering if we were equalizing their energy systems. Since, again, in Touhou, the spirit manip also weakens the target and as Youmu absorbs spirit, she also becomes stronger. Aka, Wukong gets weaker during the fight while Youmu gets stronger.



Going off the profiles, Cirno has infinite speed and Youmu drastically upscale above her. I don't think Touhou has a scene of a character statuing another character, but Marisa is faster than Cirno, and Aya blitzes Marisa. Youmu downscales from Aya as she could briefly overwhelm her with her speed. Basically—

Aya >> [speed blitz] Marisa > Cirno = Infinite speed (with Youmu being between Aya and Marisa). That's ignoring other characters that can fill said gaps. So, I don't think Wukong is gonna be speedblitzing. Though I guess the speed, on a surface level, is fairly even.



I'm just going off the profile. You can be smart and cocky. Wukong can be smart in combat, and still falter on occasion due to his behavior. But it's listed as a weakness, so I'm taking it into account.

Again, the main advantage I see Wukong having is his cloning which, I think, shouldn't be too bad since Youmu has the range to strike multiple foes at once and maintain distance. (I'm going to assume her player system cards are restricted.)
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Not equalizing AP, but only feats. Pretty sure with Wukong's combative smarts, he would instantly noticed the start Youmu punched him and would focus on ranged attacks like his heat vision or staff or clone spam as he has experienced with people that can absorb souls like XiangLiu or absorb powers like Macaque and Lady Bone Demon

I think statued someone is higher than blitzing someone. Wukong with Nimbus Cloud > Wukong Full Power > Wukong Holding Back > MK > (statued) Peng > Mei = infinite speed

Well Wukong only gets cocky if you make him angry by targeting his close ones like his student MK
 
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Youmu has power null and wukong doesn't resist that on his profile with that said power null being apart of the item that gives her another form of soul manip, how does that go?

Edit: Or I should ask, how does that item work in specific? If her soul absorption is a good way for her to win (and her skill comparatively to others on a chain is insane), using that in tandem or one after another could potentially be another wincon?
 
Ruler_Star_Kuma said:
Youmu has power null and wukong doesn't resist that on his profile with that said power null being apart of the item that gives her another form of soul manip, how does that go?

Edit: Or I should ask, how does that item work in specific? If her soul absorption is a good way for her to win (and her skill comparatively to others on a chain is insane), using that in tandem or one after another could potentially be another wincon?
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How does her power null work again? Hm I think you could argue Wukong has power null resist via upscaling from Macaque that could steal people's powers but except him (possibly maybe)
 
Sdjlakjh said:
Not equalizing AP, but only feats. Pretty sure with Wukong's combative smarts, he would instantly noticed the start Youmu punched him and would focus on ranged attacks like his heat vision or staff or clone spam as he has experienced with people that can absorb souls like XiangLiu or absorb powers like Macaque and Lady Bone Demon
Click to expand...

If he turns it into a battle of range, then I'd lean even MORE towards Youmu. I'm pretty sure her bullets has the same effects as her physical attacks. So, all he'd be doing is pushing the fight into something more common in Gensokyo and giving space for the opponent who can fire hundreds of bullets, without including her phantom. I don't think any of his ranged attacks would be as potent as Youmu's.

Sdjlakjh said:
I think statued someone is higher than blitzing someone. Wukong with Nimbus Cloud > Wukong Full Power > Wukong Holding Back > MK > (statued) Peng > Mei = infinite speed
Click to expand...

Maybe? Though his chain is... pretty small, tbh. Even if statue is ranked higher, I think the size and gap created within the Touhou scaling chain would make Youmu as fast, or even faster than Wukong. Especially when you factor in her time slow field.

Sdjlakjh said:
Well Wukong only gets cocky if you make him angry by targeting his close ones like his student MK
Click to expand...

I'm... not understanding the correlation between those two things... if that's the case, shouldn't it be mentioned in his weakness section? (Unless I missed it as I am at work).
 
Angelzewolf said:
If he turns it into a battle of range, then I'd lean even MORE towards Youmu. I'm pretty sure her bullets has the same effects as her physical attacks. So, all he'd be doing is pushing the fight into something more common in Gensokyo and giving space for the opponent who can fire hundreds of bullets, without including her phantom. I don't think any of his ranged attacks would be as potent as Youmu's.



Maybe? Though his chain is... pretty small, tbh. Even if statue is ranked higher, I think the size and gap created within the Touhou scaling chain would make Youmu as fast, or even faster than Wukong. Especially when you factor in her time slow field.



I'm... not understanding the correlation between those two things... if that's the case, shouldn't it be mentioned in his weakness section? (Unless I missed it as I am at work).
Click to expand...
Well thing is, his own clones can create it's own clones. Pretty sure it was shown at season 1 that a mere student of Wukong who just knew how to make clones, capable of making at the same quantity of hundreds or possibly higher

Hm could you elaborate on her speed chain further then?

Might be changed later
 
Ruler_Star_Kuma said:
That's power absorption, not nullification.
Click to expand...
When Macaque absorbs someone power, it nulifies their abilties/power entirely. Even if you don't buy that, Lady Bone Demon who has power nulification, didn't used it on Wukong (possibly because he was immune, same reason why Macaque doesn't use his power steal on Wukong)
 
Sdjlakjh said:
When Macaque absorbs someone power, it nulifies their abilties/power entirely. Even if you don't buy that, Lady Bone Demon who has power nulification, didn't used it on Wukong (possibly because he was immune, same reason why Macaque doesn't use his power steal on Wukong)
Click to expand...
No duh for the first part because their powers are STOLEN.

And show me an example of L.B.D's power null (not that it's even on his profile for a resistance anyway so can't be used) but I just wanna see it anyway
 
Sdjlakjh said:
Well thing is, his own clones can create it's own clones. Pretty sure it was shown at season 1 that a mere student of Wukong who just knew how to make clones, capable of making at the same quantity of hundreds or possibly higher
Click to expand...

Never watched the show, so I'm just going based off of the page. If he can make near endless clones, then yeah... THAT'S problematic depending on how the clones work.

Sdjlakjh said:
Hm could you elaborate on her speed chain further then?

Might be changed later
Click to expand...

Sure. Though I am at work, so I can't at the moment. I'll send something later, unless someone beats me to it.
 
Youmu can move so fast that she sees his opponents as paralyzed, using Voidness Sword "Slash Clearing the Six Senses"

From what she can see as paralyzed other characters of infinite speed
 
Macaque doesn't have power nullification on his profile either 💀

Both the power null for him (Macaque) and L.B.D you describe just look like showings of their power absorption, the power absorption video 'scan' for the latter being right after the portion of the power null video scan to describe she just got stronger thanks to M.K using more power.

Edit: And Youmu's power null isn't power absorption (spell breaking drug) also is poison it looks like which Wukong also doesn't show to resist on his profile.
 
I was about to say that Sun Wukong has no resistance to poison but then I remembered that him and the gang was unaffected by the Scorpion Queens' scorpions



Time slow has more chances to work on him even though he has resistance to space-time in his profile
 
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Ruler_Star_Kuma said:
Macaque doesn't have power nullification on his profile either 💀
Click to expand...
Still close enough
Click to expand...
Ruler_Star_Kuma said:
Edit: And Youmu's power null isn't power absorption (spell breaking drug) also is poison it looks like which Wukong also doesn't show to resist on his profile.
Click to expand...
Wukong has Non Standard Breathing due to being able to breath in space (and resist cosmic radiation) for an extanded amount of time. Can't he just hold his breath and avoid breathing the poison?
 
Angelzewolf said:
Again, the main advantage I see Wukong having is his cloning which, I think, shouldn't be too bad since Youmu has the range to strike multiple foes at once and maintain distance. (I'm going to assume her player system cards are restricted.)
Click to expand...

That and Sun Wukong equalizes the battlefield by nuking the danmaku away plus spawning chains around her to imprison her which allows Sun Wukong to either kill or seal her
 
Poison isn't about holding your breath, it's a circulatory problem in the body. Although you could argue more with his biological resistance rather than his space capabilities.

Also the peaches of immortality which are normally fatally poisonous to people as Sun Wukong says that the peaches would kill him if he wasn't immortal
 
Speed scaling chain for Youmu

Youmu [potential speed blitz since Aya briefly struggled to keep track of her moments] > Sanae > [Speed Blitz] Marisa > ¿Reisen? > Clownpiece > Cirno (strongest fairy excluding Clown and Wriggle) > Lily White (deemed a threat compared to basic fairies) > Moon Rabbits > Basic fairies (Possibly rating, but they don't change much anyway if you remove em) = Infinite

Ignoring how some of the characters had gotten more powerful since the initial infinite speed feat and the scaling chain missing many characters. It's probably not 100% accurate since I'm going purely off the top of my head. And excluding Remilia, who is probably faster than Sanae and, imo, slower than Youmu.

A more knowledgeable scaler could definitely give a more concise and expansive list. And just like Wukong, she can also amp herself, I believe.

Not_Icarus said:
That and Sun Wukong equalizes the battlefield by nuking the danmaku away plus spawning chains around her to imprison her which allows Sun Wukong to either kill or seal her
Click to expand...

Youmu has multiple ways of avoiding the chains. Moving is one of them or creating shockwaves to knock them away. He can try nuking the danmaku, but that'd barely matter since she can just continue bombarding without rest and, frankly, even if only one hit him per volley, it will eventually stack up as it continues draining him. (And maybe amp herself?)

Wukongs best chance is close quarter combat which comes with some more advantages for Youmu, like being able to weaken him and amp herself with her hits.

Personally, I think I'll stick with voting for Youmu. God I wish her profile was more up to date.
 
Votes are 5/5 then

Sun Wukong has more advantages than Yomu in close quarters since she's more likely to be on the defensive due to the chains spawning right next to her plus the clones can also just self destruct to give Sun Wukong even more means of aoe and fighting Yomu's aoe. The staff nuking is spammable so danmaku isn't that constant or an issue for Sun Wukong
 
Not_Icarus said:
Sun Wukong has more advantages than Yomu in close quarters since she's more likely to be on the defensive due to the chains spawning right next to her plus the clones can also just self destruct to give Sun Wukong even more means of aoe and fighting Yomu's aoe. The staff nuking is spammable so danmaku isn't that constant or an issue for Sun Wukong
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Not only that, but can't Wukong just pull this off?

Click to expand...
 
Lloydblitzed said:
MK, who has the same powers as Wukong, can recover his power throught sheer willpower tho. So u can argue Wukong can counter it
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Again, power absorption is not power nullification

Two different powers, power null and absorption have the same scan on MK's profile (which it looks to be that SAME power absorption)
 
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