Sun Wukong VS Konpaku Yomu (Lego Monkie Kid VS Touhou Project) 6/7/0

[Sdjlakjh]

I’ll play devils advocate and go for Youmu then by going off the profiles:

• Youmu would likely start the battle by keeping her distance and spamming her danmaku which would take care of Sun’s clones and stop him from getting up close and one tapping. Her vibration manip can also stagger nearby people.
• Sun would have trouble being able to dodge because of how cracked Touhou danmaku is.
• Her soul manip would ignore the ap disadvantage she’s at by attacking Sun’s soul.
• She herself is able to turn invulnerable via using slash of eternity, temporarily negating the ap gap
• Assuming speed is unequal, then getting blitzed isn’t a problem as Youmu likely has the vastly larger scaling chain in speed considering how early on in the series the Infinite speed feats occur. Her space time manip also says it slows down time to a near stop
• Skill is a non factor considering how relative they are due to Sun’s experience and Youmu downscaling from characters like Marisa who have cracked skill feats.
• Youmu’s phantom half can fight on their own.
• There’s also the fact that Youmu has empathetic manip that Sun doesn’t resist.

So basically Youmu is untouchable for Sun wukong and all her attacks likely destroy his soul I guess so Youmu fra

Well I doubt Youmu could simply beat Sun Wukong via targeting his soul considering Sun Wukong has shown to resist the Samadhi Fire that can erase existence itself which includes the entire underworld that has souls in it

Also Wukong is vastly above characters who have infinite speed scaling + can amplify his speed further by simply increasing his power level and cloud nimbus

 

[Not_Icarus]

Votes are now 5-3

Also I already said that we're scaling them off like with their high end stats of being countless hundreds of dreams instead of specific numbers in order to even out the stats

 

[RanHover60]

Well I doubt Youmu could simply beat Sun Wukong via targeting his soul considering Sun Wukong has shown to resist the Samadhi Fire that can erase existence itself which includes the entire underworld that has souls in it

Also Wukong is vastly above characters who have infinite speed scaling + can amplify his speed further by simply increasing his power level and cloud nimbus

On this site, resistance to soul erasure doesn’t equal resistance to soul manip.

For example just because someone resists having their body erased it doesn’t mean they can resist someone using biological manipulation to alter it or are immune to conventional damage which is what’s happening here. Basically Youmu is just chipping away at Sun’s soul rather than outright erasing it.

Regarding speed, Youmu can just slow time if she’s getting blitzed, which I doubt tbh.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Sun Wukong has extreme layered mental resistances so any mind fuckery won't work

Sun Wukong is passively invulnerable but can still feel pain

The danmaku will keep him at bay but is bearable and nullifiable with dodging and just straight up blasting them away

The soul stuff isn't an instant win as spirit powers in Touhou work by beating up opponents relative to you before it fully works

The phantom half is nothing but a discounted 72 transformations copy

With skill being even, this makes Sun Wukong's clones very vital as a fight between 2 similarly skilled opponents ultimately comes down to numbers and chances

There are more chances of Yomu getting restrained and killed/sealed than Yomu stealing his soul first

 

[RanHover60]

Sun Wukong has extreme layered mental resistances so any mind fuckery won't work

Empathetic manipulation is distinguished from mind manip. You’d need feats of resisting empathetic manip specifically, that and the fact that Youmu’s empathetic manip targets the heart, not mind.

Sun Wukong is passively invulnerable but can still feel pain

Youmu can also become invulnerable while negating Sun’s invulnerability with her spirit manipulation. Heck, if you’re saying they both scale to countless hundred of universes then Youmu could just overwhelm him with pain then with her danmaku.

The danmaku will keep him at bay but is bearable and nullifiable with dodging and just straight up blasting them away

Once again if they are equal stats then Wukong will be overwhelmed by a flurry of projectiles, with each one being able to decently hurt him and if he just blasts her attacks away she can just make more lol. Also I doubt Sun Wukong has dodging feats that would be able to evade Touhou level danmku

The soul stuff isn't an instant win as spirit powers in Touhou work by beating up opponents relative to you before it fully works

Rendered moot by the fact that other Touhou characters actually resist spirit manip while Sun doesn’t. Also I’ve literally never heard any supporter say that the potency of Touhou’s soul manip has to do with the strength of their opponent.

The phantom half is nothing but a discounted 72 transformations copy

Sun Wukong would be having trouble beating Youmu by herself alone so even one other clone would be enough to overwhelm him.

With skill being even, this makes Sun Wukong's clones very vital as a fight between 2 similarly skilled opponents ultimately comes down to numbers and chances

Her danmaku and vibration manip would be able to hold all of them back . In fact Youmu likely even has the skill advantage by a wide margin considering she’s fought or scales to those who have fought beings older than Sun Wukong and scales to characters like Marisa who have a plethora of insane feats.

There are more chances of Yomu getting restrained and killed/sealed than Yomu stealing his soul first

I doubt Sun would be able to drop a whole ass mountain on Youmu before she could escape via her danmaku or shockwaves lol.

 

[Sdjlakjh]

On this site, resistance to soul erasure doesn’t equal resistance to soul manip.

For example just because someone resists having their body erased it doesn’t mean they can resist someone using biological manipulation to alter it or are immune to conventional damage which is what’s happening here. Basically Youmu is just chipping away at Sun’s soul rather than outright erasing it.

Regarding speed, Youmu can just slow time if she’s getting blitzed, which I doubt tbh.

Wouldn't chipping away a soul would just be soul erasure/destruction but in a smaller scale?

 

[Not_Icarus]

If you're really going by the shockwaves argument, Sun Wukong does that too as the guy casually cracks mountains and shakes solar systems with the staff

The danmaku is destroyable because they're just bullets that don't fully scale to the user's full power compared to the complete aoe effects Sun Wukong can do with his staff which are superior as he can just nuke the surrounding area in one go with an undodgeable aoe attack unless she gets away from the blast zone first. This is spammable for Sun Wukong

Empathetic manipulation is a subset of mind manipulation. Plus the Lady Bone Demon casually puts fear in the hearts of people with her mental powers and it took all of her might to mind control him before he eventually broke out

Yomu would have trouble against a bazillion Sun Wukongs fighting her

While it's true that the main characters do have spirit resistance, literally even fairies in-game take awhile to kill via spirit attacks and they're the absolute bottom of the ladder. Sun Wukong has every right to be assumed that he can take on a good amount of Yomu's attack before get soul sucked which is enough for him to beat her

Yomu still has no answer to Sun Wukong just spawning chains around her in order to stop all her movements and attacks which leads to her either getting killed or sealed

 

[Not_Icarus]

But yeah jingu bang nuke spam>bullet hell spam

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Youmu can also become invulnerable while negating Sun’s invulnerability with her spirit manipulation. Heck, if you’re saying they both scale to countless hundred of universes then Youmu could just overwhelm him with pain then with her danmaku.

Wukong AP stomps Youmu

Once again if they are equal stats then Wukong will be overwhelmed by a flurry of projectiles, with each one being able to decently hurt him and if he just blasts her attacks away she can just make more lol. Also I doubt Sun Wukong has dodging feats that would be able to evade Touhou level danmku

Pulls out the Nimbus Cloud and evades her blasts

Sun Wukong would be having trouble beating Youmu by herself alone so even one other clone would be enough to overwhelm him.

Ur acting like Wukong can pull out hundreads of self destructing clones on her

Her danmaku and vibration manip would be able to hold all of them back . In fact Youmu likely even has the skill advantage by a wide margin considering she’s fought or scales to those who have fought beings older than Sun Wukong and scales to characters like Marisa who have a plethora of insane feats.

Wukong won't be even phased by any blasts to begin with

I doubt Sun would be able to drop a whole ass mountain on Youmu before she could escape via her danmaku or shockwaves lol.

Wukong has Class M LS while Youmu is stuck at Class 25. Good luck trying to break free from Wukong restraining her

 

[Not_Icarus]

Can you guys stop saying that Sun Wukong AP stomps Yomu already as I've already said multiple times that we're taking the countless hundreds of dreams approach for both of them in order to make the match more fair and interesting

 

[Speedblitzer50]

If you're really going by the shockwaves argument, Sun Wukong does that too as the guy casually cracks mountains and shakes solar systems with the staff

The danmaku is destroyable because they're just bullets that don't fully scale to the user's full power compared to the complete aoe effects Sun Wukong can do with his staff which are superior as he can just nuke the surrounding area in one go with an undodgeable aoe attack unless she gets away from the blast zone first. This is spammable for Sun Wukong

Empathetic manipulation is a subset of mind manipulation. Plus the Lady Bone Demon casually puts fear in the hearts of people with her mental powers and it took all of her might to mind control him before he eventually broke out

Yomu would have trouble against a bazillion Sun Wukongs fighting her

While it's true that the main characters do have spirit resistance, literally even fairies in-game take awhile to kill via spirit attacks and they're the absolute bottom of the ladder. Sun Wukong has every right to be assumed that he can take on a good amount of Yomu's attack before get soul sucked which is enough for him to beat her

Yomu still has no answer to Sun Wukong just spawning chains around her in order to stop all her movements and attacks which leads to her either getting killed or sealed

I know I said I wouldn't debate anymore, but how come danmaku doesn't scale to the user's total power?

Additionally, Youmu can also block the shockwave with force fields.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Basically what I mean is that they're inferior to a full on aoe attack like Sun Wukong's staff nuking as they're just individually small bullets for the majority of them. They still scale but just downscale a lot in comparison compared to something like a master spark for example.

They're at their full strength when shot collectively like in a straight line or all/most of them hit their targets like in the games.

Outside of Sun Wukong's staff nuking and blocking he has enough skill, speed and transformations to adapt decently against the incoming danmaku wave even from the likes of Touhou.

 

[Speedblitzer50]

Youmu can still block his shockwaves with force fields

If you tell me she can't, then you're saying Wukong can't block her Matsuyoi-Reflecting Satellite Slash either.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Both blocks each other's sword and staff however an extended clash between both weapons will result in the staff's victory due to Sun Wukong's superior lifting strength

 

[Not_Icarus]

Note that the force fields can buy her time but aren't as good as her invulnerability though, since Sun Wukong smashes through force fields made by people relative to him like the Lady Bone Demon

Still a good tool for Yomu regardless

 

[Speedblitzer50]

Rendered moot by the fact that other Touhou characters actually resist spirit manip while Sun doesn’t. Also I’ve literally never heard any supporter say that the potency of Touhou’s soul manip has to do with the strength of their opponent.

That's true, Touhou characters can absorb soul in various attacks but it's because the target resists soul manip.

while Wukong does not resist this so a single danmaku should absorb his soul (although I know they are going to make an excuse why this is not the case lol)

 

[Not_Icarus]

Expectedly because it's boring and the high end interpretation of their spirit powers lol

The lower end of her needing to beating down him down first like a fairy or stage boss is more fun, interesting and fair to talk about

 

[Speedblitzer50]

Note that the force fields can buy her time but aren't as good as her invulnerability though, since Sun Wukong smashes through force fields made by people relative to him like the Lady Bone Demon

Still a good tool for Yomu regardless

but wait, if youmu is invulnerable that means the shockwaves wouldn't hurt him lol

 

[Not_Icarus]

They're whacking each other regardless, not like both of these people don't fight other invulnerable fellas to get an upperhand first and to get them off balance

 

[Sdjlakjh]

That's true, Touhou characters can absorb soul in various attacks but it's because the target resists soul manip.

while Wukong does not resist this so a single danmaku should absorb his soul (although I know they are going to make an excuse why this is not the case lol)

You can kinda argue that Wukong can resist soul absorb as he wasn't able to be targeted by Xiangliu's soul absorbtion

 

[Speedblitzer50]

Expectedly because it's boring and the high end interpretation of their spirit powers lol

The lower end of her needing to beating down him down first like a fairy or stage boss is more fun, interesting and fair to talk about

But that's another thing, whether it's boring or interesting.

so literally a single danmaku of Youmu absorbs wukong's soul

 

[Speedblitzer50]

You can kinda argue that Wukong can resist soul absorb as he wasn't able to be targeted by Xiangliu's soul absorbtion

his profile tells me the opposite

and it is better not to say that sun wukong has hax that are not yet on his profile

 

[Sdjlakjh]

his profile tells me the opposite

and it is better not to say that sun wukong has hax that are not yet on his profile

Mainly because Xiangliu's profile hasn't been made yet. When done, likely Wukong get some additional stuff

 

[Not_Icarus]

Oh good catch on that Xiangliu power from season 5, so there's even more room now for Sun Wukong to not instantly get absorbed

It's unreasonable to think that Touhou characters insta absorb all people just with 1 attack when even fodder like fairies can take some hits before dying.

Sun Wukong is a mystic creature beyond even fairies so there is room to argue there with that alone

 

[Speedblitzer50]

and even so, youmu can still absorb the soul of others resistant to it (she can absorb spirit from other spirit manipulation users, who resist this)

Furthermore, she can absorb the spirit of those who survived Tenshi, absorbing everyone's soul.

so she can still absorb wukong's soul (assuming he resists this, because for now it's not in his profile)

 

[Not_Icarus]

And this is why the fight is viable. Neither is completely helpless even if someone has a clearer edge

The fact that she needs to hit Sun Wukong enough to win instead of 1 shotting is interesting and viable for the thread

 

[Speedblitzer50]

Oh good catch on that Xiangliu power from season 5, so there's even more room now for Sun Wukong to not instantly get absorbed

It's unreasonable to think that Touhou characters insta absorb all people just with 1 attack when even fodder like fairies can take some hits before dying.

Sun Wukong is a mystic creature beyond even fairies so there is room to argue there with that alone

And what do fairies have to do with it? soul manip and soul absorption are not related to AP and Durability, only to resistance against it

 

[Not_Icarus]

Especially with how they'll both try to scrap first with melee and some energy attacks before both gets more serious and pulls out chains to restrain Yomu or Yomu gets enough hits on Sun Wukong to absorb his soul

 

[Not_Icarus]

Spirit powers and attacks in Touhou are strength based as the more spirit you have the more you resist attacks from opponents

They're pretty much personified in-game via the boss health bars and stuff

You can also argue that Sun Wukong has a lot of spirit with how immortal he is given he ate countless peaches of immortality and other elixers which raises ones health and spirit into immortality. Azure Lion himself wanted to test just how strong Sun Wukong's immortality is given heaven, hell and the mortal world all can't claim him

 

[RanHover60]

Spirit powers and attacks in Touhou are strength based as the more spirit you have the more you resist attacks from opponents

They're pretty much personified in-game via the boss health bars and stuff

 

[Sdjlakjh]

and even so, youmu can still absorb the soul of others resistant to it (she can absorb spirit from other spirit manipulation users, who resist this)

Furthermore, she can absorb the spirit of those who survived Tenshi, absorbing everyone's soul.

so she can still absorb wukong's soul (assuming he resists this, because for now it's not in his profile)

Um? You know the Ivory Kings were still able to resist soul absorbtion right? But XiangLiu still absorbed them anyway

 

[RanHover60]

Um? You know the Ivory Kings were still able to resist soul absorbtion right? But XiangLiu still absorbed them anyway

There’s also the fact that rather than outright absorb their soul, Touhou characters, you know, can just target it lol

 

[Sdjlakjh]

There’s also the fact that rather than outright absorb their soul, Touhou characters, you know, can just target it lol

You mean like destroying it? Pretty sure I already elaborated on that via the Fire

 

[Not_Icarus]

The results are still the same. Yomu can't destroy his soul and can only steal it at best to make his body useless

It's still an effort to hit him enough to do so

 

[RanHover60]

You mean like destroying it? Pretty sure I already elaborated on that via the Fire

No, you said the fire erases the soul, it’s like saying someone who can resist bodily existence erasure can resist a laser completely obliterating them, which isn’t true.

 

[Sdjlakjh]

No, you said the fire erases the soul, it’s like saying someone who can resist bodily existence erasure can resist a laser completely obliterating them, which isn’t true.

Erasure is more potent than destruction tho?

 

[Not_Icarus]

Typically that's the assumption actually.

If you can survive reality getting burnt away then a giant laser is nothing

 

[Not_Icarus]

It's like comparing 3-A destruction to a tier 2 destruction

One is just straight up better as it also destroys things beyond the physical like space-time for example

 

[RanHover60]

How low have I come in life to be arguing with someone who has a skibidi toilet pfp

But anyways I have no idea where you guys are getting this from. A tier 2 character can survive the destruction of their universe but that doesn’t automatically equate to having a resistance to existence erasure, which is a hax you need feats of surviving.

Erasure is more potent than destruction tho?

Except here’s the thing: Youmu’s attacks would essentially be targeting Wukong’s soul as if it were his body, essentially just beating him up on the spiritual level which he doesn’t resist. Not erasure, not absorption, simply soul attacks. At this point we’re just running in circles now.

 

[Not_Icarus]

The samadhi fire burns away all of existence into nothingness including spirits and beyond so it counts for Sun Wukong

If you really wanna go with that route for Touhou soul stuff then that just means Yomu fights Sun Wukong until he yields from too much pain which is worse than just Yomu stealing his soul after enough hits.