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In the mythos chaos or primordial chaos is wuji for the most part throughout the mythos back in the days
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Sun wukong/Journey to the west CRT
- Thread starter Greatsage13th
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- #122
If wuji is the chaos. It would grant him transduality type 4
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- #123
But as of now. Resistances to immortality negation, durability negation, resistance negation, death , poison, cosmic radiation, fear, pain and void manipulation
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Maybe there is no concept like "cosmic radiation" at the time JttW, but it's...... wel, not bad since physic has been beaten up by those gods.
I'd like to suggest Resistance to Mind Manipulation.
The reason is that Sun Wukong is frequently described as "the heart" while monsters in To The West part is often described as something mentally.
One of the examples is in Chapter 3, it is stated that his famous "threatening the officials of death" is occurred during his dream. Given that JttW is about gods and next stories, Sun Wukong could fight even in his dream. (Also it implies that soul=mind applies in JttW)
(It sounds like Superman's Torquasm-Vo, but Torquasm-Vo is nearly the main theme of JttW)
However, I think we should determine Sun Wukong's Tier first...
I'd like to suggest Resistance to Mind Manipulation.
The reason is that Sun Wukong is frequently described as "the heart" while monsters in To The West part is often described as something mentally.
One of the examples is in Chapter 3, it is stated that his famous "threatening the officials of death" is occurred during his dream. Given that JttW is about gods and next stories, Sun Wukong could fight even in his dream. (Also it implies that soul=mind applies in JttW)
(It sounds like Superman's Torquasm-Vo, but Torquasm-Vo is nearly the main theme of JttW)
However, I think we should determine Sun Wukong's Tier first...
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- #125
High 3A(infinite powers and infinite dragon palace) , 2A(since he shook the heavens that have a separate space time and much larger geometry than the mortal realm) , low 1C(scales to the buddha who viewed all of creation as fiction) and 1A(if wuji is the chaos)
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1-A key is currently a presumption and it is too bold. 2-A seems reasonable since "he shook the heavens that have a separate space time and much larger geometry than the mortal realm" can be mostly confirmed. (But I don't know how fast the gods are since cross the separate space time has become the common feat nearly most of JttW characters must perform. Still, Sun Wukong is shown to be faster and flexible than them.)
High 3-A's reason can be also found (except "infinite dragon palace". It may not be confirmed directly). He is born in the place highly suggested as "universe energy center area" (The text is in above and everyone can read it). One of the peaches Wukong ate in Heaven can give people immortality (and said people is high likely don't need eat or drink.)
(In Chapter 5) Since Sun Wukong eats many of them, then...
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Greatsage
Its been silent because you keep bumping the thread without bringing the requested quotes/statements.
At the same time having Dao, Wuji, Taijii, Yin and Yang, Baguua and etc in a novel, book doesnt denote 1A for anything without statements/feats that back up those concepts. It needs such things from within the verse not from real life and how people put them, but how its explained in verse. Otherwise every Xuanhuan and Xianxia novel, book would be 1A as they all have the same concepts.
Its been silent because you keep bumping the thread without bringing the requested quotes/statements.
At the same time having Dao, Wuji, Taijii, Yin and Yang, Baguua and etc in a novel, book doesnt denote 1A for anything without statements/feats that back up those concepts. It needs such things from within the verse not from real life and how people put them, but how its explained in verse. Otherwise every Xuanhuan and Xianxia novel, book would be 1A as they all have the same concepts.
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I haven't found evidence to support 1-A Sun Wukong (My profile in Character Stats and Profiles is on the basis that he is fighting against actual Taoism figure. Feel free to ignore it, we should have another Wukong profile in VS Battles Wiki) But... do we have any idea about his Tier? Also, I don't know how we interrupted the cross the separate space time feat performed by nearly every JttW characters.
Evidence 1: (Chapter 4)
Evidence 1: (Chapter 4)
Evidence 2 (Chapter 5):
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- 11,413
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- #130
High 3A , low 2C, 2A and low 1Cfor now
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@Zaratthustra
Cough cough
Then why did caine have Transduality type 4 just from wuji existing in its verse with no other explanation
Cough cough
Then why did caine have Transduality type 4 just from wuji existing in its verse with no other explanation
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Others doing bad things is not an excuse to mimick them, this has been prohibited from happening to begin with for multiple reasons. If they truly have nothing beyond that (and with how bloodthirsty for felling 1-As some are, I doubt that), then they are in the wrong. Anyways, I'll start writing an answer.
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Not our problem, thats WoD supporters and those that want to fix, revision it. Also, I dont know anything about WoD beyond the name of few characters and how much hax they have. If you find it wrong make a thread.
All concepts be them Law, Time, Space, Dimensionality, Wuji, Dao, etc needs to have statements from within the verse.
All concepts be them Law, Time, Space, Dimensionality, Wuji, Dao, etc needs to have statements from within the verse.
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His ability is to exist in the non-existence, or to come back from the non-existence. Lavos itself doesn't exist in both places at once (alternate selves of it can, but those are not one being).
Lavos can remain non-existent, or come back from being non-existent. If a buddha can do that, you certainly didn't show it.
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(High-Godly, came back even after being conceptually erased to the Non-existence of the Darkness Beyond Time)
Exists in non-existence
It can come back to existing even if reduced to non-existence. That is it.
If you meant its ability to kill people with high-godly... it's (among others) because it can kill itself, so that obviously doesn't apply to its regeneration.
Exists in non-existence
It can come back to existing even if reduced to non-existence. That is it.
If you meant its ability to kill people with high-godly... it's (among others) because it can kill itself, so that obviously doesn't apply to its regeneration.
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Mind showing the damage they regenerate from? Because harming their physical bodies, souls, or any other form of thing would not work with them being nothing. You either argue its just inconsistency, or that their bodies aren't their full selves and that recovering those would be akin to an abstract recovering their avatars.
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Do you not know how digimon work? Firstly, they are type 1, which is massively different from type 2 NEP. They are erased data, something that can exist in reality but doesn't. Recovering something like that is not at all the same.
Secondly, they don't fight with their true, full selves. The bodies that have the regeneration are programs they create and use as proxy. This is literally the avatar being recovered by a true self.
Oblivion is the above but more blatant. All forms he takes are avatars unrelated to his true self, and erasing them just sends them back to Oblivion. He interacts with reality through avatars, and he can recover those avatars.
Both cases don't have the being regenerate its true self.
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- #142
Before Chaos was divided, Heaven and Earth were one;
All was a shapeless blur, and no men had appeared.
Once Pan Gu destroyed the Enormous Vagueness
The separation of clear and impure began.
Living things have always tended towards humanity;
From their creation all beings improve.
If you want to know about Creation and Time,
Read Difficulties Resolved on the Journey to the West.
In the arithmetic of the universe, 129,600 years make one cycle. Each cycle can be divided into twelve phases:
I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X, XI and XII, the twelve branches. Each phase lasts 10,800 years.
Now within a single day, the positive begins at the time I; at II the **** crows; at III it is not quite light; at IV
the sun rises; V is after breakfast; and at VI one does business. VII is when the sun reaches noon; at VIII it is
slipping towards the West; IX is late afternoon; the sun sets at X; XI is dusk; and at XII people settle down for
the night.
If you compare this with the big numbers, then at the end of Phase XI Heaven and Earth were still one, and no
beings had appeared. 5,400 years later came the beginning of Phase XII, when all was darkness and there
were still no people or other creatures; for this reason it was called Chaos. Another 5,400 years later Phase XII
was drawing to a close and a new cycle was about to begin. As Phase I of the new era approached, gradually
there was light. As Shao Yong said,
"When winter reaches the mid−point of Phase I
The heart of Heaven does not move.
Where the Positive first appears
Nothing has yet come to life."
At this time, Heaven first had a foundation. 5,400 years later, in the middle of Phase I, the light and pure rose
upwards, and sun, moon, stars, and constellations were created. These were called the Four Images. Hence the
saying that heaven began in I.
Another 5,400 years later, when Phase I was nearing its end and Phase II was imminent, things gradually
solidified. As the Book of Changes says, "Great is the Positive; far−reaching is the Negative! All things are
endowed and born in accordance with Heaven." This was when the earth began to congeal. After 5,400 more
years came the height of Phase II, when the heavy and impure solidified, and water, fire, mountains, stone,
and Earth came into being. These five were called the Five Movers. Therefore it is said that the Earth was
created in Phase II.
After a further 5,400 years, at the end of Phase II and the beginning of the Phase III, living beings were
created. In the words of the Book of the Calendar, "The essence of the sky came down and the essence of
earth went up. Heaven and Earth intermingled, and all creatures were born." Then Heaven was bright and
Earth was fresh, and the Positive intermingled with the Negative. 5,400 years later, when Phase III was at its
height, men, birds and beasts were created. Thus the Three Powers−−Heaven, Earth and Man−−now had their
set places. Therefore it is said that man was created in Phase III.
Moved by Pan Gu's creation, the Three Emperors put the world in order and the Five Rulers laid down the
moral code. The world was then divided into four great continents: The Eastern Continent of Superior Body,
the Western Continent of Cattle−gift, the Southern Continent of Jambu and the Northern Continent of Kuru.
This book deals only with the Eastern Continent of Superior Body. Beyond the seas there is a country called
Aolai. This country is next to an ocean, and in the middle of the ocean is a famous island called the Mountain
of Flowers and Fruit. This mountain is the ancestral artery of the Ten Continents, the origin of the Three
Islands; it was formed when the clear and impure were separated and the Enormous Vagueness was divided.
Pretty sure wuji's reference is clear here with the main reference being the vagueness that keeps popping up through out the entire story.
All was a shapeless blur, and no men had appeared.
Once Pan Gu destroyed the Enormous Vagueness
The separation of clear and impure began.
Living things have always tended towards humanity;
From their creation all beings improve.
If you want to know about Creation and Time,
Read Difficulties Resolved on the Journey to the West.
In the arithmetic of the universe, 129,600 years make one cycle. Each cycle can be divided into twelve phases:
I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X, XI and XII, the twelve branches. Each phase lasts 10,800 years.
Now within a single day, the positive begins at the time I; at II the **** crows; at III it is not quite light; at IV
the sun rises; V is after breakfast; and at VI one does business. VII is when the sun reaches noon; at VIII it is
slipping towards the West; IX is late afternoon; the sun sets at X; XI is dusk; and at XII people settle down for
the night.
If you compare this with the big numbers, then at the end of Phase XI Heaven and Earth were still one, and no
beings had appeared. 5,400 years later came the beginning of Phase XII, when all was darkness and there
were still no people or other creatures; for this reason it was called Chaos. Another 5,400 years later Phase XII
was drawing to a close and a new cycle was about to begin. As Phase I of the new era approached, gradually
there was light. As Shao Yong said,
"When winter reaches the mid−point of Phase I
The heart of Heaven does not move.
Where the Positive first appears
Nothing has yet come to life."
At this time, Heaven first had a foundation. 5,400 years later, in the middle of Phase I, the light and pure rose
upwards, and sun, moon, stars, and constellations were created. These were called the Four Images. Hence the
saying that heaven began in I.
Another 5,400 years later, when Phase I was nearing its end and Phase II was imminent, things gradually
solidified. As the Book of Changes says, "Great is the Positive; far−reaching is the Negative! All things are
endowed and born in accordance with Heaven." This was when the earth began to congeal. After 5,400 more
years came the height of Phase II, when the heavy and impure solidified, and water, fire, mountains, stone,
and Earth came into being. These five were called the Five Movers. Therefore it is said that the Earth was
created in Phase II.
After a further 5,400 years, at the end of Phase II and the beginning of the Phase III, living beings were
created. In the words of the Book of the Calendar, "The essence of the sky came down and the essence of
earth went up. Heaven and Earth intermingled, and all creatures were born." Then Heaven was bright and
Earth was fresh, and the Positive intermingled with the Negative. 5,400 years later, when Phase III was at its
height, men, birds and beasts were created. Thus the Three Powers−−Heaven, Earth and Man−−now had their
set places. Therefore it is said that man was created in Phase III.
Moved by Pan Gu's creation, the Three Emperors put the world in order and the Five Rulers laid down the
moral code. The world was then divided into four great continents: The Eastern Continent of Superior Body,
the Western Continent of Cattle−gift, the Southern Continent of Jambu and the Northern Continent of Kuru.
This book deals only with the Eastern Continent of Superior Body. Beyond the seas there is a country called
Aolai. This country is next to an ocean, and in the middle of the ocean is a famous island called the Mountain
of Flowers and Fruit. This mountain is the ancestral artery of the Ten Continents, the origin of the Three
Islands; it was formed when the clear and impure were separated and the Enormous Vagueness was divided.
Pretty sure wuji's reference is clear here with the main reference being the vagueness that keeps popping up through out the entire story.
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The reference is clear, a 1-A scale is not, I'd say. But I am not the expert on tier 1, send that to someone that is and they'll tell you.
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- #144
Wuji is literally transduality type 4 not type 2
Which is 1A
Which is 1A
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Not without proper proof of being 1-A, the name Wuji does not mean that, let alone references to it.
Again, most Xianxia and Wuxia would be 1-A if we allowed a simple name drop, or references to something, to scale in for tier. If that is deemed to be eligible for 1-A, neat, but referencing a 1-A thing is not something you can just count for tiers.
Again, most Xianxia and Wuxia would be 1-A if we allowed a simple name drop, or references to something, to scale in for tier. If that is deemed to be eligible for 1-A, neat, but referencing a 1-A thing is not something you can just count for tiers.
Deleted member 2530
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Has Wukong even been harmed enough to regenerate? Iirc, one of the things he gained was invulnerability.
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Okay so I guess we'll be sticking to either high 3A, low 2C , 2A and low 1C for now I guess. But first I'll need to remove WoD's transduality type 4
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Being beyond this could be tier 1, mind. If you ask Ultima, he might be able to help with that.
Also, have Buddha's and Wukong ever been harmed at all? Let alone destroyed fully.
Also, have Buddha's and Wukong ever been harmed at all? Let alone destroyed fully.
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I just checked the proposed profile. And sorry if I may come off as ignorant but what are the sources for the tiers in profile. Iirc, the Dragon Palace in JtTW is shown to be deep in the ocean I don't know about it being made up of 2A realms and neither about Monkey King lifting the Milky Way(which seems to somehow scale from Taoism). In the story itself Buddha's palm contained a universe. Can anyone cite sources for them?
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Pretty sure WoD's is just the name with nothing explaining its properties so I gotta make a CRT to remove it.
Wukong was harmed by buddha to the point where wukong was encased under 5 element mountain for more than 500 years while the buddha didn't sustain any damage
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I was talking about this quote, not WoD. I do not care for WoD right now, though I may check it out later.
That is... What does that have to do with anything? Firs of all, how was he harmed? He was rendered unable to move, not physically wounded.
Sexondly, Buddah was unharmed. I asked for an instance where a Buddha was harmed and recovered, which is what you claimed they can still do.
That is... What does that have to do with anything? Firs of all, how was he harmed? He was rendered unable to move, not physically wounded.
Sexondly, Buddah was unharmed. I asked for an instance where a Buddha was harmed and recovered, which is what you claimed they can still do.
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- #154
1.Wukong was harmed when buddha crushed him under his palm before his imprisonment
2.i meant the gods not the Buddha
edit:forgotten to mention that buddha defeated wukong through the usage of avatars
2.i meant the gods not the Buddha
edit:forgotten to mention that buddha defeated wukong through the usage of avatars
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Deleted member 2530
Guest
We might have different translation of the story.
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- #156
Hmm?
Deleted member 2530
Guest
Edit: Also, in which chapter is Dragon Palace shown to contain 2A realms or Wukong Lifting the Milky Way?
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The dear Great Sage hurriedly braced himself to jump, but the Buddha turned his hand over and pushed the Monkey King out through the Western Gate of Heaven. He turned his five fingers into a mountain chain belonging to the elements Metal, Wood, Water, Fire, and Earth, renamed them the Five Elements Mountain, and gently held him down.
All the thunder gods and the disciples Ananda and Kasyapa put their hands together to praise the Buddha: “Wonderful, wonderful,
Doesn't seem to have any significant differences
All the thunder gods and the disciples Ananda and Kasyapa put their hands together to praise the Buddha: “Wonderful, wonderful,
Doesn't seem to have any significant differences
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- #160
Well then let's settle about his tiering
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