• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Sun wukong/Journey to the west CRT

Status
Not open for further replies.
Infinite appear about 60 times in the story.

And, it is not "abused" because it is not allowed. And I do not understand how you think a Chinese oral myth written down into a story is somehow less likely to have hyperbole and flowery language than modern written books and stories? I'd argue to opposite.
 
First of all the effects of how we treat a verse's statements would change the tiers drastically.

If we were dealing with classical literature we must look at it from the author's prespective not treating like it was DC or Marvel comics nd literally every God's name(not including jade emperor , buddhas , arhats and bodhisattvas) inside JTTW is taken as a concept like how all mythological names in chinese mythology having a conceptual nature of its own.
 
Well, yes, interpretations of statements does indeed change a lot. We tend to go with the conservative one most of the time.

While the background of why and how something was written, that is still not how things go. A caulduron, with it having symbolic signs written on it, does not mean the caulduron is a concept. As I said, there is a character from a more modern Chinese Xianxia that uses those very symbols (not "a" character, much like other terms they are used and abused in a large amount of fiction relating to them). Likewise, people like Carter Kane use the hieroglyphics and their meaning to get magical effects.
That does not mean conceptual manipulation.
 
There is some info about the eight trigram furnace which was found on the same website that had the English translation of JTTW

Each of the eight trigrams is made up of Yang (———) and Yin (— —) lines. Yang stands for the mind of Tao and Yin stands for the human mind.

The firmness of the Tao belongs to yang; this is the “great”. The flexibility of the human mind belongs to yin, this is the “small”. If the human mind lacks the mind of Tao, it can defeat the Tao by using consciousness to produce illusion. If you govern it by the mind of Tao, the conscious light is clear and can thereby help the Tao.

Kan (Water ☵) and Li (Fire ☲) are the functions of Qian (Heaven and Kun (Earth). The two functions have no fixed positions in the lines.
The Cycle of the Moon

Zhen (Thunder ☳) comes forth as an inkling,
and the Yang Breath makes it start:
“Initial nine, withdrawn dragon.”

On the third day Zhen (Thunder ☳) moves,
on the eighth, Dui (Lake ☱) is in action.
“Nine in the second place, appearing dragon”.

On the fifteenth, virtue is attained
And the body of Qian (Heaven ☰) is achieved.
“Nine in the third place, at nightfall he is watchful,”
fearing that he might lose the divine token.

When Xun (Wind ☴) takes control,
it firmly holds it in his hands.
“nine in fourth place, wavering flight”.

Gen (Mountain ☶) rules over arrest and advance,
So that nothing contravenes the timing.
On the twenty-third day,
it presides over the waning quarter.
“Nine in the fifth place, flying dragon”:
sitting in the throne of Heaven, it increases it`s delight.

On the thirtieth day, Kun (Earth ☷) inherits the charge,
Binding and enclosing end and beginning.
Carrying and nourishing her children,
She is like a mother to all things in the world.
“Nine at the top, arrogant dragon,”
fighting for power in the wild.

“All nines,” flutter flutter,
are the compass and square of the Dao.
The Yang numbers are now completed.
The number nine represents Yang.

The number nine associated with Heaven is called Pure Yang.

On the left the hexagram 'Return', on the right the hexagram 'Heaven" from the I-Ching.
Growing from one yang to gradually reach the pure wholeness of six yangs, going from vague to clear, the Gold Elixir develops naturally.
The holy man, who understands the mysteries of creation inherent in end and beginning, becomes superior to the limitations of the transitory. For him, the meaning of time is that in it, the stages of growth can unfold in a clear sequence. He is mindful at every moment and uses the six stages of growth as if they were six dragons
 
Is it actual part of the novel or just a viewer explanation?

Regarding the Eight Trigram Furnace, I remember someone saying that part of why Wukong survived was because of how Monkey are associated with fire in chinese stuff.
 
YuriAkuto said:
"Flowery language is an unprovable claim"
Excuse me but wtf?
I'm pretty sure differenciating litteral from metaphorical is something anyone attending high school is supposed to learn.
Click to expand...
Differentiation between a metaphor and flowery language are two different things. The entirety of Journey to the West is a metaphor, but you're claiming that something isn't literal, which is a positive claim which you cannot prove without getting into semantics, presumptions and pointless debate.
 
Udlmaster said:
Differentiation between a metaphor and flowery language are two different things. The entirety of Journey to the West is a metaphor, but you're claiming that something isn't literal, which is a positive claim which you cannot prove without getting into semantics, presumptions and pointless debate.
Click to expand...
Metaphor is for things that aren't litteral. It's like, why it's called as such.
If a flower is stated to have infinite beauty, it doesn't have litteral infinite beauty.
 
I'm more talking about the transformations than powers, although it does seems hyperbolic af too.
 
What do you mean mean?

Beauty is an inherently immaterial and subjective concept, something can have infinite beauty, but just to one person, your example was awful.

And your argument goes nowhere and proves nothing, I already addressed how metaphor and the claiming of something being not literal are too mutually distinct concepts.

Like how murder and manslaughter are different concepts.

And you still haven't proven it isn't literal either, you haven't fulfilled your Burden of proof.
 
Greatsage13th said:
No...it's stated more than twice throughout the novel including infinite transformation and dualities
Click to expand...
I listed 4 times off the top of my head where it stated that he has Infinite transformations. On the Wukong profile, it lists 3 times where it states he has Infinite power, and I know for certain there's much more than just those 3.

So the claim of "it's not literal" is not only unfounded, but disproven via multiple occurances, but it's not our burden of proof anyway.
 
I still think we should have a key for him before he was boosted (currently stated to be island or moon level). I also have some suggestions to add:

* He should get Martial Arts since he was an expert in it.
* He should get Social Influencing since he was a well known trickster.
* He should have Genius Intelligence listed as an ability since he is a highly knowledgeable martial artist, a skilled doctor (I'll get to that later), and was able to outsmart gods.
* He should have Self-Sustenance Types 1 and 2 for his boosted state since he survived with nothing but molten copper and doesn't need oxygen after becoming immortal. As a Buddha, he should have all three types.
* He can talk to and befriend other animals (Noted here)
* He should have Enhanced Senses (Can hear what is said all the way to Heaven or the Underworld, can see 300 miles, can still sense his surroundings while asleep)
* Intangibility via turning into mist
* He should have Extrasensory Perception since following his time in the furnace, he can sense evil.
* He should have telekinesis since he can move objects with his mind
* Minor Toon Force (Can walk on clouds)
* Invulnerability for his boosted state since the five different methods of gaining immortality he used strengthened his body to be quite indestructible, to the point that even mystical or holy weapons wielded by demons broke on him.
* Resistance to immortality negation since he survived the furnace that was supposed to be capable of killing even gods and immortals.
* Water manipulation for parring an ocean
* Resistance to pain since he showed no pain in cutting himself open and pulling his own guts out
* Can still fight after being reduced to just his soul
* He once treated a sick person, showing he is capable of medicine.
* I believe his regeneration should only be Mid. He did regrow a head at one point (here), but I couldn't find anything suggesting he was turned to ash by the furnace, let alone that it destroyed his soul. I believe he was unaffected by the furnace due to a combination of his fire immunity, nigh-indestructible body, and immortality. He also doesn't even really need regeneration anyway even though he has it, since he can resurrect up to 72 times, and he can still survive as a soul. Even if you had the invulnerability and regeneration negation needed to destroy his body, he would either resurrect or continue to fight as a soul. Only something like Existence Erasure can truly destroy him.
* Finally, it should be noted that he can still be defeated by being sealed and that he is poor at fighting underwater in his weaknesses section.
 
Frieza_force_soldier_100 said:
I still think we should have a key for him before he was boosted (currently stated to be island or moon level). I also have some suggestions to add:

* He should get Martial Arts since he was an expert in it.
* He should get Social Influencing since he was a well known trickster.
* He should have Genius Intelligence listed as an ability since he is a highly knowledgeable martial artist, a skilled doctor (I'll get to that later), and was able to outsmart gods.
* He should have Self-Sustenance Types 1 and 2 for his boosted state since he survived with nothing but molten copper and doesn't need oxygen after becoming immortal. As a Buddha, he should have all three types.
* He can talk to and befriend other animals (Noted here)
* He should have Enhanced Senses (Can hear what is said all the way to Heaven or the Underworld, can see 300 miles, can still sense his surroundings while asleep)
* Intangibility via turning into mist
* He should have Extrasensory Perception since following his time in the furnace, he can sense evil.
* He should have telekinesis since he can move objects with his mind
* Minor Toon Force (Can walk on clouds)
* Invulnerability for his boosted state since the five different methods of gaining immortality he used strengthened his body to be quite indestructible, to the point that even mystical or holy weapons wielded by demons broke on him.
* Resistance to immortality negation since he survived the furnace that was supposed to be capable of killing even gods and immortals.
* Water manipulation for parring an ocean
* Resistance to pain since he showed no pain in cutting himself open and pulling his own guts out
* Can still fight after being reduced to just his soul
* He once treated a sick person, showing he is capable of medicine.
* I believe his regeneration should only be Mid. He did regrow a head at one point (here), but I couldn't find anything suggesting he was turned to ash by the furnace, let alone that it destroyed his soul. I believe he was unaffected by the furnace due to a combination of his fire immunity, nigh-indestructible body, and immortality. He also doesn't even really need regeneration anyway even though he has it, since he can resurrect up to 72 times, and he can still survive as a soul. Even if you had the invulnerability and regeneration negation needed to destroy his body, he would either resurrect or continue to fight as a soul. Only something like Existence Erasure can truly destroy him.
* Finally, it should be noted that he can still be defeated by being sealed and that he is poor at fighting underwater in his weaknesses section.
Click to expand...
High godly and mid godly is only for buddhahood via scaling to the other gods and he no longer has that weakness when he achieved buddhahood
 
Greatsage13th said:
High godly and mid godly is only for buddhahood via scaling to the other gods and he no longer has that weakness when he achieved buddhahood
Click to expand...
Right, well his keys can clarify that. His base state would have immortalities 1 and 4 (the latter for his resurrections for each of his 72 transformations), his boosted state would have types 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5, with mid level regeneration, invulnerability, and resistance to immortality/invulnerability negation, and his buddha state would have godly regeneration.
 
Anyway, I think we have his many powers and abilities documented. This was our old profile on him, this is Udlmaster's current roughdraft, and there are the things I pointed out above. The only thing we have to do now is decide on his tiers.
 
It's currently decided as High 3A, 2A or low 1C with the addition of large size type 10(if he was decided as 2A or low 1C) and beyond dimensional existence type 1
 
No because he is virtually fearless except maybe threatening the dragon king's infinite realms is a feat of itself before gaining type 5 immortality but still better to put the base and boosted into one single key
 
Frieza_force_soldier_100 said:
Anyway, I think we have his many powers and abilities documented. This was our old profile on him, this is Udlmaster's current roughdraft, and there are the things I pointed out above. The only thing we have to do now is decide on his tiers.
Click to expand...
That wasn’t the original, that was the original+ additions people slapped on there without permission.

the original made no mention to basically any of the powers like NPI, NE or Transdualism.
 
After some real-life controversial things, I'll briefly say something about JttW Sun Wukong:

First, Sun Wukong's potential "energy" is always depended on how large the whole JttW cosmology.

For JttW cosmology and Sun Wukong's born (both English version and Chinese version. It should be noted that it's impling the whole JttW cosmology) [In Chapter 1]
詩曰：
混沌未分天地亂，茫茫渺渺無人見。
自從盤古破鴻濛，開闢從茲清濁辨。
覆載群生仰至仁，發明萬物皆成善。
欲知造化會元功，須看西遊釋厄傳。

蓋聞天地之數，有十二萬九千六百歲為一元。將一元分為十二會，乃子、丑、寅 、卯、辰、巳、午、未、申、酉、戌、亥之十二支也。每會該一萬八百歲。且就 一日而論：子時得陽氣，而丑則雞鳴﹔寅不通光，而卯則日出﹔辰時食後，而巳 則挨排﹔日午天中，而未則西蹉﹔申時晡，而日落酉，戌黃昏，而人定亥。譬於 大數，若到戌會之終，則天地昏曚而萬物否矣。再去五千四百歲，交亥會之初， 則當黑暗，而兩間人物俱無矣，故曰混沌。又五千四百歲，亥會將終，貞下起元 ，近子之會，而復逐漸開明。邵康節曰：：「冬至子之半，天心無改移。一陽初 動處，萬物未生時。」到此，天始有根。再五千四百歲，正當子會，輕清上騰， 有日，有月，有星，有辰。日、月、星、辰，謂之四象。故曰，天開於子。又經 五千四百歲，子會將終，近丑之會，而逐漸堅實。《易》曰：「大哉乾元！至哉 坤元！萬物資生，乃順承天。」至此，地始凝結。再五千四百歲，正當丑會，重 濁下凝，有水，有火，有山，有石，有土。水、火、山、石、土，謂之五形。故 曰，地闢於丑。又經五千四百歲，丑會終而寅會之初，發生萬物。曆曰：「天氣 下降，地氣上升﹔天地交合，群物皆生。」至此，天清地爽，陰陽交合。再五千 四百歲，子會將終，近丑之會，而逐漸堅實。《易》曰：「大哉乾元！至哉坤元 ！萬物資生，乃順承天。」至此，地始凝結。再五千四百歲，正當丑會，重濁下 凝，有水，有火，有山，有石，有土。水、火、山、石、土，謂之五形。故曰， 地闢於丑。又經五千四百歲，丑會終而寅會之初，發生萬物。曆曰：「天氣下降 ，地氣上升﹔天地交合，群物皆生。」至此，天清地爽，陰陽交合。再五千四百 歲，正當寅會，生人，生獸，生禽，正謂天地人，三才定位。故曰，人生於寅。

感盤古開闢，三皇治世，五帝定倫，世界之間，遂分為四大部洲：曰東勝神洲， 曰西牛賀洲，曰南贍部洲，曰北俱蘆洲。這部書單表東勝神洲。海外有一國土， 名曰傲來國。國近大海，海中有一座名山，喚為花果山。此山乃十洲之祖脈，三 島之來龍，自開清濁而立，鴻濛判後而成。真個好山！有詞賦為證。賦曰：勢鎮 汪洋，威寧瑤海。勢鎮汪洋，潮湧銀山魚入穴﹔威寧瑤海，波翻雪浪蜃離淵。水 火方隅高積上，東海之處聳崇巔。丹崖怪石，削壁奇峰。丹崖上，彩鳳雙鳴﹔削 壁前，麒麟獨臥。峰頭時聽錦雞鳴，石窟每觀龍出入。林中有壽鹿仙狐，樹上有 靈禽玄鶴。瑤草奇花不謝，青松翠柏長春。仙桃常結果，修竹每留雲。一條澗壑 籐蘿密，四面原堤草色新。正是百川會處擎天柱，萬劫無移大地根。

那座山正當頂上，有一塊仙石。其石有三丈六尺五寸高，有二丈四尺圍圓。三丈 六尺五寸高，按周天三百六十五度﹔二丈四尺圍圓，按政曆二十四氣。上有九竅 八孔，按九宮八卦。四面更無樹木遮陰，左右倒有芝蘭相襯。

蓋自開闢以來，每受天真地秀，日精月華，感之既久，遂有靈通之意。內育仙胞 ，一日迸裂，產一石卵，似圓毬樣大。因見風，化作一個石猴，五官俱備，四肢 皆全。便就學爬學走，拜了四方。目運兩道金光，射沖斗府。驚動高天上聖大慈 仁者玉皇大天尊玄穹高上帝，駕座金闕雲宮靈霄寶殿，聚集仙卿，見有金光燄燄 ，即命千里眼、順風耳開南天門觀看。二將果奉旨出門外，看的真，聽的明。須 臾回報道：「臣奉旨觀聽金光之處，乃東勝神洲海東傲來小國之界，有一座花果 山，山上有一仙石，石產一卵，見風化一石猴，在那裏拜四方，眼運金光，射沖 斗府。如今服餌水食，金光將潛息矣。」玉帝垂賜恩慈曰：「下方之物，乃天地 精華所生，不足為異。」
Click to expand...
Before Chaos was divided, Heaven and Earth were one;
All was a shapeless blur, and no men had appeared.
Once Pan Gu destroyed the Enormous Vagueness
The separation of clear and impure began.
Living things have always tended towards humanity;
From their creation all beings improve.
If you want to know about Creation and Time,
Read Difficulties Resolved on the Journey to the West.
In the arithmetic of the universe, 129,600 years make one cycle. Each cycle can be divided into twelve phases:
I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X, XI and XII, the twelve branches. Each phase lasts 10,800 years.
Now within a single day, the positive begins at the time I; at II the **** crows; at III it is not quite light; at IV
the sun rises; V is after breakfast; and at VI one does business. VII is when the sun reaches noon; at VIII it is
slipping towards the West; IX is late afternoon; the sun sets at X; XI is dusk; and at XII people settle down for
the night.
If you compare this with the big numbers, then at the end of Phase XI Heaven and Earth were still one, and no
beings had appeared. 5,400 years later came the beginning of Phase XII, when all was darkness and there
were still no people or other creatures; for this reason it was called Chaos. Another 5,400 years later Phase XII
was drawing to a close and a new cycle was about to begin. As Phase I of the new era approached, gradually
there was light. As Shao Yong said,
"When winter reaches the mid−point of Phase I
The heart of Heaven does not move.
Where the Positive first appears
Nothing has yet come to life."
At this time, Heaven first had a foundation. 5,400 years later, in the middle of Phase I, the light and pure rose
upwards, and sun, moon, stars, and constellations were created. These were called the Four Images. Hence the
saying that heaven began in I.
Another 5,400 years later, when Phase I was nearing its end and Phase II was imminent, things gradually
solidified. As the Book of Changes says, "Great is the Positive; far−reaching is the Negative! All things are
endowed and born in accordance with Heaven." This was when the earth began to congeal. After 5,400 more
years came the height of Phase II, when the heavy and impure solidified, and water, fire, mountains, stone,
and Earth came into being. These five were called the Five Movers. Therefore it is said that the Earth was
created in Phase II.
After a further 5,400 years, at the end of Phase II and the beginning of the Phase III, living beings were
created. In the words of the Book of the Calendar, "The essence of the sky came down and the essence of
earth went up. Heaven and Earth intermingled, and all creatures were born." Then Heaven was bright and
Earth was fresh, and the Positive intermingled with the Negative. 5,400 years later, when Phase III was at its
height, men, birds and beasts were created. Thus the Three Powers−−Heaven, Earth and Man−−now had their
set places. Therefore it is said that man was created in Phase III.
Moved by Pan Gu's creation, the Three Emperors put the world in order and the Five Rulers laid down the
moral code. The world was then divided into four great continents: The Eastern Continent of Superior Body,
the Western Continent of Cattle−gift, the Southern Continent of Jambu and the Northern Continent of Kuru.
This book deals only with the Eastern Continent of Superior Body. Beyond the seas there is a country called
Aolai. This country is next to an ocean, and in the middle of the ocean is a famous island called the Mountain
of Flowers and Fruit. This mountain is the ancestral artery of the Ten Continents, the origin of the Three
Islands; it was formed when the clear and impure were separated and the Enormous Vagueness was divided. It
is a really splendid mountain and there are some verses to prove it:
It stills the ocean with its might,
It awes the jade sea into calm.
It stills the ocean with its might:
Tides wash its silver slopes and fish swim into its caves.
It awes the jade sea into calm:
Amid the snowy breakers the sea−serpent rises from the deep.
It rises high in the corner of the world where Fire and Wood meet;
Its summit towers above the Eastern Sea.
Red cliffs and strange rocks;
Beetling crags and jagged peaks.
On the red cliffs phoenixes sing in pairs;
Lone unicorns lie before the beetling crags.
The cry of pheasants is heard upon the peaks;
In caves the dragons come and go.
There are deer of long life and magic foxes in the woods;
Miraculous birds and black cranes in the trees.
There are flowers of jade and strange plants that wither not;
Green pine and bluish cypress ever in leaf,
Magic peaches always in fruit.
Clouds gather round the tall bamboo.
The wisteria grows thick around the mountain brook
And the banks around are newly−coloured with flowers.
It is the Heaven−supporting pillar where all the rivers meet,
The Earth's root, unchanged through a myriad aeons.
There was once a magic stone on the top of this mountain which was thirty−six feet five inches high and
twenty−four feet round. It was thirty−six feet five inches high to correspond with the 365 degrees of the
heavens, and twenty−four feet round to match the twenty−four divisions of the solar calendar. On top of it
were nine apertures and eight holes, for the Nine Palaces and the Eight Trigrams. There were no trees around
it to give shade, but magic fungus and orchids clung to its sides. Ever since Creation began it had been
receiving the truth of Heaven, the beauty of Earth, the essence of the Sun and the splendour of the Moon; and
as it had been influenced by them for so long it had miraculous powers. It developed a magic womb, which
burst open one day to produce a stone egg about the size of a ball.
When the wind blew on this egg it turned into a stone monkey, complete with the five senses and four limbs.
When the stone monkey had learned to crawl and walk, he bowed to each of the four quarters. As his eyes
moved, two beams of golden light shot towards the Pole Star palace and startled the Supreme Heavenly Sage,
the Greatly Compassionate Jade Emperor of the Azure Vault of Heaven, who was sitting surrounded by his
immortal ministers on his throne in the Hall of Miraculous Mist in the Golden−gated Cloud Palace. When he
saw the dazzling golden light he ordered Thousand−mile Eye and Wind−accompanying Ear to open the
Southern Gate of Heaven and take a look. The two officers went out through the gate in obedience to the
imperial command, and while one observed what was going on the other listened carefully. Soon afterwards
they reported back:
"In obedience to the Imperial Mandate your subjects observed and listened to the source of the golden light.
We found that at the edge of the country of Aolai, which is East of the ocean belonging to the Eastern
Continent of Superior Body, there is an island called the Mountain of Flowers and Fruit. A magic stone on the
top of this mountain produced a magic egg, and when the wind blew on this egg it turned into a stone monkey
which bowed to each of the four quarters. When he moved his eyes, golden light shot towards the Pole Star
Palace; but now that he is eating and drinking, the golden light is gradually dying."
In his benevolence and mercy the Jade Emperor said, "Creatures down below are born of the essence of
heaven and earth: there is nothing remarkable about him."
Click to expand...
I'll add more contents later because I will post contents here. Taoism is sometime regarded as philosophy (or even "meta-philosophy" because of Ying and Yang)

Upgrade: Sun Wukong's Immortality requires him to prevent

卻早過了三年，祖師復登寶座，與眾說法。談的是公案比語，論的是外像包皮。 忽問：「悟空何在？」悟空近前跪下：「弟子有。」祖師道：「你這一向修些甚 麼道來？」悟空道：「弟子近來法性頗通，根源亦漸堅固矣。」祖師道：「你既 通法性，會得根源，已注神體，卻只是防備著三災利害。」悟空聽說，沉吟良久 道：「師父之言謬矣。我常聞道高德隆，與天同壽﹔水火既濟，百病不生。卻怎 麼有個『三災利害』？」祖師道：「此乃非常之道：奪天地之造化，侵日月之玄 機﹔丹成之後，鬼神難容。雖駐顏益壽，但到了五百年後，天降雷災打你，須要 見性明心，預先躲避。躲得過，壽與天齊﹔躲不過，就此絕命。再五百年後，天 降火災燒你。這火不是天火，亦不是凡火，喚做『陰火』。自本身湧泉穴下燒起 ，直透泥垣宮，五臟成灰，四肢皆朽，把千年苦行，俱為虛幻。再五百年，又降 風災吹你。這風不是東南西北風，不是和薰金朔風，亦不是花柳松竹風，喚做 『贔風』。自?門中吹入六腑，過丹田，穿九竅，骨肉消疏，其身自解。所以都 要躲過。」

悟空聞說，毛骨悚然，叩頭禮拜道：「萬望老爺垂憫，傳與躲避三災之法，到底 不敢忘恩。」祖師道：「此亦無難，只是你比他人不同，故傳不得。」悟空道： 「我也頭圓頂天，足方履地，一般有九竅四肢，五臟六腑，何以比人不同？」祖 師道：「你雖然像人，卻比人少腮。」原來那猴子孤拐面，凹臉尖嘴。悟空伸手 一摸，笑道：「師父沒成算。我雖少腮，卻比人多這個素袋，亦可准折過也。」 祖師說：「也罷，你要學那一般？有一般天罡數，該三十六般變化﹔有一般地煞 數，該七十二般變化。」悟空道：「弟子願多裏撈摸，學一個地煞變化罷。」祖 師道：「既如此，上前來，傳與你口訣。」遂附耳低言，不知說了些甚麼妙法。 這猴王也是他一竅通時百竅通，當時習了口訣，自修自煉，將七十二般變化都學 成了。
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
The edit function is not work and I have to post a new reply especially when I will post a large amounts of content. It may possibly violate the rule, but I'm sorry.
After three years had passed in this way the Patriarch once more sat on his lecturing throne and expounded the
Dharma to the students. He recounted famous sayings and parables, and discussed external phenomena and
external appearances.
Without warning he asked, "Where is Sun Wukong?" Sun Wukong went forward, knelt down and replied,
"Your disciple is present."
"What Way have you cultivated since coming here?"
Click to expand...
"Your disciple is now fairly well conversant with the Dharma," Sun Wukong replied, "and my Source is
getting gradually stronger."
"If you are conversant with the Dharma and you know about the Source," the Patriarch replied, "and if the
spirit has already flowed into you, then you must beware of the 'Three Disasters.'"
Sun Wukong thought for a long time, then he said, "Patriarch, you're talking rubbish. I have often heard that
the Way is lofty and its power mighty, that it is as eternal as Heaven, that it can overcome fire and water, and
prevent all illnesses from arising, so how could there be "Three Disasters?'"
To this the Patriarch replied, "This is not the ordinary Way: it involves seizing the very creation of Heaven
and Earth, and encroaching on the hidden workings of the sun and moon. Once the elixir is made, devils and
spirits cannot tolerate it. Although it will preserve the youthfulness of your face and prolong your life, in five
hundred years' time Heaven will strike you with a thunderbolt. You must be clear−sighted in nature and mind,
so that you can hide from it before it comes. If you succeed in avoiding it you will live as long as Heaven; and
if you don't, it will kill you. Another five hundred years later Heaven will burn you with fire. This fire will be
not heavenly fire or ordinary fire but 'hidden fire'. It will burn you from the soles of your feet to the crown of
your head; your five viscera will be reduced to ashes, your four limbs will be destroyed, and a thousand years
of asceticism will have been so much wasted time. Yet another five hundred years later a wind will blow at
you. It will not be the North, South, East, or West wind, nor will it be a warm, fragrant wind from the
Northwest; nor will it be the kind of wind that blows among flowers, willows, pine, and bamboo. It will be
Click to expand...
what is called a 'monster wind'. It will blow through the crown of your head down into your six entrails. It will
go through the Cinnabar Field below your navel and penetrate your nine orifices. Your flesh and your bones
will be destroyed and your body will disintegrate. So you must avoid all three of these disasters."
When he heard this Sun Wukong's hair stood on end, and he kowtowed with the words, "I implore you, my
lord, to show pity and teach me how to avoid these three disasters. If you do I will be grateful to you for ever."
"That would be easy," the Patriarch replied, "but for the fact that you are different from other people−−which
means that I can't."
"I have a head that faces the sky and feet standing on earth," said Sun Wukong. "I have nine orifices and four
limbs, five viscera and six entrails. How am I different from anyone else?"
"Although you are quite like other people, your cheeks are too small." Now the Monkey had a funny face,
with cheeks that caved inwards and a sharp chin.
Sun Wukong felt it with his hand and replied with a laugh, "Master, you didn't take everything into account.
Although I'm a bit short of jaw, I've got more dewlap than other people to make up for it."
Click to expand...
"Very well then," the Patriarch said, "which would you prefer to learn: the thirty−six heavenly transformations
or the seventy−two earthly ones?"
"Your disciple wants to get as much out of it as he can, so I would like to learn the seventy−two earthly ones."
"If that's what you want," the Patriarch replied, "come here and I'll teach you the spells." Thereupon he
whispered into Sun Wukong's ear, and who knows what miraculous spells he taught him? The Monkey King
was the sort of person who understands everything once he is told a tiny part, and he learned the spells on the
spot. He practiced and trained until he had mastered all seventy−two transformations.
Click to expand...
(The above contents are from Chapter 2)
Given that Sun Wukong has impressive anti-death methods even in JttW verse, it is safe to assume that Sun Wukong can prevent attack ignoring dua even in JttW cosmology destruction and reconstruction level. "七十二般變化" (well-known as "seven-two transformations" but I'll use "seven-two bianhua" instead. There is a theory suggesting that number in JttW, especially the number about some Taoism and Buddhism stuff, has the implicit meaning. "Seven-two", for example, could be consider as "eight multiplied by nine". "Eight" could be considered as the maximum even number while "nine" could be considered as the maximum odd number. [From 1 to 9]. It is suggested as the alternative method to say "infinite number" without full of "infinite".)

For current discussion, I think the current profile still needs improvement since JttW could be considered as collection of past stories but with authors' personal thinking. (If I want to explain why, then I may be better writing an academic paper)
 
Last edited:
Because it is tiring to repeat things over and over? I mean, I already told you that a nonexistent cannot have High Godly, but that flew over your head. I will find the time to go through this again later.
 
Why can't they? They literally regenerate without their soul and are devoid of any concept. Yet they can still regenerate with nothing
 
Maybe we could add the non-controversial part of the profiles first? Personally, I believe that having Pan Gu does not automatically gain Wuji (That sentence is to prove that Wukong's potential is highly connected to JttW cosmology). You can try other valid approach and wait for Udi's statement. I will also try to find Wukong's other ability.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

JimedBro2020
  • Locked
JTTW needs a MASSIVE upgrade
Replies
5
Views
2K
JimedBro2020
JimedBro2020
LazerDim8000
Journey To The West tier upgrade
Replies
13
Views
3K
Robo432343
Robo432343
StrymULTRA
Sun Wukong Infinite speed problem???
Replies
8
Views
2K
StrymULTRA
StrymULTRA
Dharmakhaya
Replies
4
Views
2K
Apotheosis69
Apotheosis69
RanaProGamer
  • Locked
Settling Twitter's Debate | Kratos vs Sun Wukong
Replies
35
Views
3K
Planck69
Planck69
Back
Top