Summer Time Rendering Revision Edition #5 FT. Tier 1 Upgrade Revision

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Another STR upgrade/downgrade and overall revision thread so sit back and watch me cook.

Starting off;

9-A Summer Time Rendering Upgrade;

Thanks to @BreezeHM, I was able to make this possible. The Strongest characters of the verse gets upgraded to 9-A via this calculation I'm about to show, for now tho im unsure where the Lower/Common ones should scale to for now.

Berserk Chitose slams a big boulder (9-A|0.027 Tons Of TNT)

Everyone should now fully scale to MHS;

Currently unrevised pages have characters rated at Subsonic Travel speed and Supersonic Combat speed while revised pages (Only Shinpei's so far) have Supersonic+ Movement/Travel speed with MHS Combat and reactions. Now the verse has MHS via Ryuunosuke in Shinpei's body dodging a bullet at point blank range. Now for why everyone should scale to MHS overall? (Well By Movement/Combat/Reactions)
The Ryuunosuke who accomplished this feat is far slower and weaker (Due to less physical attributes than hizuru and his body's stiffness) than the Ryunnosuke possessing Hizuru's body (Even while going all out) who Shinpei himself is able to perceive her movements as she was fighting shadow mio but get completely perception blitzed by Shadow Mio prior to this event..... That's alot to take in.... Basically Shadow Mio blitzes someone who can perceive the movements of a character who himself can perceive a MHS character. The verse has other Movement speed and obviously combat/reactions feats which i will use to justify why they scale to MHS like other characters but this is the main one.

Now every Top Tier Character and their mother's are MHS overall while Shinpei and the others have Subsonic+, Likely Massively Hypersonic Reactions as they are capable of narrowly dodging and evading these shadows but in no way being able to punch one fast enough. This should give Regular Shadows Sub+, Likely MHS Movement/Combat/Travel as they can Blitz the humans in the cast like Shinpei and even he himself says he can't fight a stray alone.

Shide's Profile Revamp

Here i revamped Shide's profile. I'll do the others and add other characters later.

Addressing Low 1-C Summer Time Rendering

So i heavily disagree with Outright Low 1-C STR and here's why;

The panel where Low 1-C is mentioned.... Rather the manga on a whole is Right To Left read. This means Tokoyo is just a whole plane of existence above the mortal realm, not above the fourth dimension (which i still doubt is Low 1-C on here) and Shinpei even confirm it by saying "So this is the fourth dimension". So this debunks Low 1-C, rather it scales dimensionally above the mortal world which i will get into on where that scales.

Now where should STR scale?

The Cosmology of STR is accepted as At least 2-B here. So now, all timelines or time overall which scale to 2-B and the flow of time for all these timeline cut off at. This means tokoyo is far superior to the 2-B timelines that exist as it basically dwarfs the timelines and shows superiority over them. This is also evident as Shinpei's looping (which scales to 2-B) and Haine's eyes are completely useless in tokoyo and their power is only recognized in the Mortal Realm. Not to mention that people with these eye are able to view time on a higher dimension or even let them have the ability to make themselves stand in a higher dimension which allows to control space, time, and the lower dimensional world, in comparison to a three-dimensional being who can arbitrarily grab, flip, and burn a comic that is two-dimensional.

So in summary, since Tokoyo is shown to be Higher Dimensional compared to the Mortal World. So It should be Possibly Low 1-C instead of Outright Low 1-C just because of the implications of a Higher Dimensional Plane that is dimensionally superior to The Mortal World that is 2-B. If possibly Low 1-C can't work for whatever reason then Unquantifably Higher Than Baseline 2-B should be fine.

So Hiruko should scale to "At least 2-B, Possibly Low 1-C" as she is implied to create Tokoyo as her profile suggests along with the fact if she dies Tokoyo will vanish and so will the people who scale to her like Ushio, Ryuunosuke and Shide who can all potentially harm her. She's also freaking stated to come from a Higher Dimension and able to see time on that dimension in chapter 60s by Hizuru. Please tell me what more evidence it might need. See shinpei's page for more evidence on Haine's eye.

---

Btw Haine was weakened, nerfed and handicapped throughout the series so Highball 1-A RAHHH

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Bump

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Why isn't this BDE1

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

Will share my thoughts about this later...

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Bump

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Bump

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Why isn't this BDE1

Now that i look at it. It should be

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Bump

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Looks good at glance

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

Well, I have to disagree with giving it a possible Low 1-C. After looking at the scan provided, it does seem plausible that Tokoyo is merely a space being “higher” because it vertically structured above the mortal realm. I also don't think Tokoyo is described as a 4-D structure, as Shinpei's statement that the place has such dimensional structure seems to only be his assumption. It would make more sense to consider it a realm or world without time, i.e 3-D space, so abilities that depend on time would not function there, which is why Shide brought them to Tokyo since Haine's eye powers would not work and he could steal it there.

Initially I was thinking Tokoyo had a 4D, spatial one, but lack of context made me doubt that. Because considering Tokoyo that way would be illogical, since Tokoyo has already been established as a place that surpasses the mortal realm, while the mortal realm is the world of living beings, i.e a spacetime universe (4D). So I consider the place to simply be a 3D space that hierarchically arranged above the 4D mortal realm rather than it being a literal higher dimension.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Well, I have to disagree with giving it a possible Low 1-C. After looking at the scan provided, it does seem plausible that Tokoyo is merely a space being “higher” because it vertically structured above the mortal realm. I also don't think Tokoyo is described as a 4-D structure, as Shinpei's statement that the place has such dimensional structure seems to only be his assumption. It would make more sense to consider it a realm or world without time, i.e 3-D space, so abilities that depend on time would not function there, which is why Shide brought them to Tokyo since Haine's eye powers would not work and he could steal it there.

Initially I was thinking Tokoyo had a 4D, spatial one, but lack of context made me doubt that. Because considering Tokoyo that way would be illogical, since Tokoyo has already been established as a place that surpasses the mortal realm, while the mortal realm is the world of living beings, i.e a spacetime universe (4D). So I consider the place to simply be a 3D space that hierarchically arranged above the 4D mortal realm rather than it being a literal higher dimension.

So it's a 3D realm above a 4D cosmology? I don't understand how this works

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Where would Tokoyo scale then? 3-A? 2-B?

 

[Reiner04]

Since I was asked to give input, I'll just say I disagree .

Edit: jk agree.

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

Where would Tokoyo scale then? 3-A? 2-B?

The Tokoyo being rated as 3-A seems reasonable, since it is merely a spatial realm (world) for Shadows, and time does not exist there either. Essentially, it is no more than another world (plane of existence), it is just placed as such there (vertically structured not horizontally as in most fiction), it's stacked above the mortal world. It does not truly imply it is a higher dimension, which would trivialize the lower ones, if it so, honestly, I dont see any qualitative superiority difference between it and the mortal realm.

 

[LifeRiderthe1]

The Tokoyo rated as 3-A seems reasonable, since it is merely a spatial realm (world) for Shadows, and time does not exist there either. Essentially, it is no more than an alternative world (plane of existence), it is just placed as such there (vertically structured not horizontally as in most fiction), it's stacked above the mortal world. It does not truly indicate it is a higher dimension, which would trivialize the lower ones, if it so, honestly, I dont see any qualitative superiority difference between it and the mortal realm.

but wouldn't it having no time mean the container holding said realm is a separate space-time? which via the model is 4D? cause it having a different time-space then the normal world which you mentioned as before as 4D would also kinda make this realm 4D or am i missing something?

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

but wouldn't it having no time mean the container holding said realm is a separate space-time? which via the model is 4D? cause it having a different time-space then the normal world which you mentioned as before as 4D would also kinda make this realm 4D or am i missing something?

I dont get what you mean, can you rephrase?

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

@Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl on second thought, after reading through everything.... Tokoyo really is just a 3D space. It contains Hitogashima which is a 3.3 mile island. Ima get the energy required to make it calculated.
More info here

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

Right? That supports my claim. The current rating should be downgraded then.

 

[LifeRiderthe1]

I dont get what you mean, can you rephrase?

I mean sense it has a different time axis this means the realm in particular as a different space-time then the mortal realm? maybe i miss understood what you said about the vertical thing cause of it being stacked on top.

 

[NIK_FARIS]

Hmm, saying it’s fourth dimension doesn’t deny it being low 1-C per say since it typical for the author not treat time as dimension. Also, fourth dimension itself doesn’t actually limit the tire since there many verse that eventhough it’s call 4D, the structure consider as Low 1-A, 5D as High 1-B, and there also others which eventhough the structure is 4D, due to numerical sequence of amount of 4Ds generate, it become tier 0.

Anyway, from what I read from the OP and the profiles, Tokoyo seems to show to be above in literal sense the multiverse(above all the timelines). They’re also the statement making comparison between those which reside in the world and the main world like 3D to 2D and having control over lower dimensional space-time. Since the context doesn’t just refer 3D physical space only but rather control over time as well then in a sense, Tokoyo exist above entire 4D structures. Basically, it seem to R/F 4D structure which qualify for Low 1-C at least in term of existence.

Even if you want to disregard it being it being higher dimension in mathematical sense, the place and the resident will still be Low 1-C due to them R/F over lower dimensional structure similar to how Magi have low 1-C due to R/F Lower world(space-time) eventhough they are themselves 3D. In this case, the person won’t have HDE because it’s not related to mathematical dimension but still be low 1-C.

So, the cosmology would still be low 1-C or likely Low 1-C in my opinion. I however don’t know the scaling for the characters verse just that creation of such world at the very least be likely Low 1-C.

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

I mean sense it has a different time axis this means the realm in particular as a different space-time then the mortal realm? maybe i miss understood what you said about the vertical thing cause of it being stacked on top.

The Tokoyo one, has no time axis, it just has spatial axis. It just serves as another world, a place where shadows exist. But unlike in most fiction where other worlds are separated from each other and arranged horizontally, in this verse they are arranged vertically.

What I mean by the Tokoyo being 4-D is, initially, I thought it's a 4D spatial and not a 4D spatial-temporal. Which would be makes no sense as a higher dimension, because the posisition of the Tokoyo is above the mortal realm.

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

Hmm, saying it’s fourth dimension doesn’t deny it being low 1-C per say since it typical for the author not treat time as dimension. Also, fourth dimension itself doesn’t actually limit the tire since there many verse that eventhough it’s call 4D, the structure consider as Low 1-A, 5D as High 1-B, and there also others which eventhough the structure is 4D, due to numerical sequence of amount of 4Ds generate, it become tier 0.

Anyway, from what I read from the OP and the profiles, Tokoyo seems to show to be above in literal sense the multiverse(above all the timelines). They’re also the statement making comparison between those which reside in the world and the main world like 3D to 2D and having control over lower dimensional space-time. Since the context doesn’t just refer 3D physical space only but rather control over time as well then in a sense, Tokoyo exist above entire 4D structures. Basically, it seem to R/F 4D structure which qualify for Low 1-C at least in term of existence.

Even if you want to disregard it being it being higher dimension in mathematical sense, the place and the resident will still be Low 1-C due to them R/F over lower dimensional structure similar to how Magi have low 1-C due to R/F Lower world(space-time) eventhough they are themselves 3D. In this case, the person won’t have HDE because it’s not related to mathematical dimension but still be low 1-C.

So, the cosmology would still be low 1-C or likely Low 1-C in my opinion. I however don’t know the scaling for the characters verse just that creation of such world at the very least be likely Low 1-C.

Nah, the R>F there isnt referring to the cosmologi's construct, it's just an anology to describe how powerful Haine's eye is.

 

[NIK_FARIS]

Nah, the R>F there isnt referring to the cosmologi's construct, it's just an anology to describe how powerful Haine's eye is.

That’s still appear to be R/F level of existence to me even if we ignore that. Also considering they make comparison in dimensional sense rather than simply saying “the lower world like a story”, “lower world being a hologram” it make comparison of 3D to 2D which imply dimensional transcendence over lower dimensional space-time.

Well, even if we do want to ignore Tokoyo as low 1-C structure, I do still think those with the Haines eye should still be low 1-C or likely Low 1-C considering the user can R/F the lower dimension space-time structures.

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

Okay, after rewatching the anime and seeing some scenes, at first glance I do think it appears to be an actual R>F transcendence. The scan seems to be talking about the benefits of being in a higher dimension. Also, if those eyes could directly command space and time, why would the user have to go to a higher dimension when it could already work in their world, right? So I think I could tolerate that idea.

On the other hand, I'm also a little skeptical about it. I don't think the transcendence also necessarily applies to the Tokoyo and the Mortal Realm. If an ontological superiority was already established there, then Shide wouldn't have needed to trouble himself taking Haine's eyes to dominate the lower world, just by existing in that place should already trivialize the lower world due to the ontological difference.

As I said before, the Tokoyo is just another world that is vertically structured, it's stacked above the mortal realm, and there's no clear explanation that it has an ontological superiority. This place can be accessed by some beings from the mortal realm and reached through some kind of portal.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

I've been tried arguing Low 1-C for the eye back then. Although some mods agreed, it was a losing ratio. With the evidence on shinpei's page + the statement of give beings look down on lower dimensions - Low 1-C.

Also, if those eyes could directly command space and time, why would the user have to go to a higher dimension when they could already work in their world, right? So I think I could tolerate that idea.

No one with the eye 'needs' to go to tokoyo. It was Shide who brought them there to stop Ryuunosuke's precognition (Won't Work via no time sequence since no time exist in tokoyo) and retain Ushio's eye (Haines Original eye) SO HE COULD DESTROY THE WORLD (2-B Cosmology). Shide knows the eye in tokoyo is useless, he planned to kill ushio,take it and go back then use it to eliminate the world.

At this point should give the dimension of tokoyo a likely 4D, since it has a explicit statement for it even if its from Shinpei's interpretation. He already knows about Tokoyo via hagumo sensei's Journal and Dr. Hitagaha's info so it should work

 

[NIK_FARIS]

Okay, after rewatching the anime and seeing some scenes, at first glance I do think it appears to be an actual R>F transcendence. The scan seems to be talking about the benefits of being in a higher dimension. Also, if those eyes could directly command space and time, why would the user have to go to a higher dimension when they could already work in their world, right? So I think I could tolerate that idea.

On the other hand, I'm also a little skeptical about it. I don't think the transcendence also necessarily applies to the Tokoyo and the Mortal Realm. If an ontological superiority was already established there, then Shide wouldn't have needed to trouble himself taking Haine's eyes to dominate the lower world, just by existing in that place should already trivialize the lower world due to the ontological difference.

As I said before, the Tokoyo is just another world that is vertically structured, it's stacked above the mortal realm, and there's no clear explanation that it has an ontological superiority. This place can be accessed by some beings from the mortal realm and reached through some kind of portal.

Yeah, when rereading the evidences backs every notion of “higher plane of existence”, “higher dimension”, comparison 3D to 2D seems to only to applied to user of the Haines Eye rather than Tokoyo. Tokoyo seem to just been a weird dimension with “still” time outside the multiverse but isn’t superior. The cosmology is still low 1-C since there exist higher dimension just the fact that Tokoyo won’t scale to it and only those with Haine’s eye user scale to it since they able to have access to it.

 

[NIK_FARIS]

I've been tried arguing Low 1-C for the eye back then. Although some mods agreed, it was a losing ratio. With the evidence on shinpei's page + the statement of give beings look down on lower dimensions - Low 1-C.

Unless I mistaken, you don’t actually use the scans for the comparison between 3D and 2D for the eye back then rather simply saying it exist in higher dimension.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

you don’t actually use the scans for the comparison between 3D and 2D for the eye back then rather simply saying it exist in higher dimension.

Yes that was my mistake. Now tho im confident the eye indeed scales to and makes its users low 1-C. About tokoyo I'll get the energy taken needed to create it (it contains hitogashima which is the island the anime takes place on). And i could scale it to "whatever tier", Likely Universe level+

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

I mean, I can see the possibility of the R>F transcendence there. But I don't agree that the R>F transcendence applies to the relationship between the Tokoyo and the Mortal Realm.

What I don't get it is why simply having an R>F transcendence would give them a Tier. There has been no demonstration of any "universal affecting power" from the R over their native Reality. It's like saying that a being from n dimension would automatically be rated as Tier x just because they exist in that dimension. The R>F transcendence only implies they are ontologically superior to what is below, but in their reality they are just a regular person, unless there is further context.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

I just want to point out. Haine states that the person who gains the eye ascends to an even higher dimension. That's 6-D, since the eyes are originally 5-D

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

I just want to point out. Haine states that the person who gains the eye ascends to an even higher dimension. That's 6-D, since the eyes arw regularly 5-D

Yes, but it has nothing to do with Tier.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Yes, but it has nothing to do with Tier.

The eyes or tokoyo?

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

The eyes or tokoyo?

The ascending. It won't give a Tier 1.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

The ascending. It won't give a Tier 1

Isn't the ascending apart of the reason it's tier 1?

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

Isn't the ascending apart of the reason it's tier 1?

It is? Well, At first we argued that the relationship between the Tokoyo and the mortal realm has an ontological superiority difference, i.e. an R>F transcendence which could rated the Tokoyo as a Low 1-C structure. However, that idea was lost, since the R>F transcendence comes from Haine's eye explanation, and it isn't a quantitatively superiority established to the relationship between a higher world and a lower world there. It just serves merely as an analogy.

And NIK_FARIS said that Haine's eye could be rated as Low 1-C due to its power having R>F transcendence, and therefore the cosmology should be Low 1-C too. As Haine's eye explanation implicitly stated that there is an ontological superiority difference in the relationship between higher and lower dimensions, with higher ones able to trivialize lower ones in comparison, like a 3D being to a 2D one.

And now, back to what I said:

I don't get it is why simply having an R>F transcendence would give them a Tier. There has been no demonstration of any "universal affecting power" from the R over their native Reality. It's like saying that a being from n dimension would automatically be rated as Tier X just because they exist in that dimension. The R>F transcendence only implies they are ontologically superior to what is below, but in their reality they are just a regular person, unless there is further context.

 

[Worthless]

You are making this whole thing difficult, and if I remember correctly, that old immortal man is planning to destroy the whole world in the same way a player turns off a video game, further backing this reality over fiction concept that's usually 5D tier.
But I can't emphasize enough that the same statement was made in the manga too.

 

[Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl]

that old immortal man is planning to destroy the whole world in the same way a player turns off a video game

Yes, that's true. But, what did he do it with? Of course with Haine's eye.

In fact, thats another analogy to describe how powerful Haine's eye is, once someone has it, they will have absolute power, and command over space and time.

 

[NIK_FARIS]

What I don't get it is why simply having an R>F transcendence would give them a Tier. There has been no demonstration of any "universal affecting power" from the R over their native Reality. It's like saying that a being from n dimension would automatically be rated as Tier x just because they exist in that dimension. The R>F transcendence only implies they are ontologically superior to what is below, but in their reality they are just a regular person, unless there is further context.

Being fair what you want to argue is more into the way how this wiki currently treat R/F. As long as there are notion of R/F with one define of being in higher plane of existence or something similar, that is enough to be low 1-C. Most of Low 1-C characters which related to R/F don’t really show them being having total control over their dimension in direct sense just the fact that they are superior to lower world. I guess it’s same argument saying how you need to be 3D to interact with 3D objects as any dimension lower won’t be able to do that. That’s why we treat those characters in general low 1-C in their statistics like AP, Durability, Range due to level of existence but their hax won’t scale unless they shown to use hax on the same level of dimension as they are.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Qawsedf234 @Elizhaa @Firestorm808

Can you help here with the Low 1-C downgrade.

 

[Worthless]

Yes, that's true. But, what did he do it with? Of course with Haine's eye.

In fact, thats another analogy to describe how powerful Haine's eye is, once someone has it, they will have absolute power, and command over space and time.

Is your argument being HDE =/= AP? If so I also don't think existing or coming from a higher dimension, or outright stating being a higher-dimensional being, implies that your AP is at the same level as your dimensionality. Besides, Hiruko without the eyes was never portrayed to be that strong, and characters can be higher-dimensional while still having an AP comparable to a human in fiction, like the Shleemypants, and was it actually stated that Hiruko created that world without using her eyes? But If so, why should one assume her creation should scales to her AP and Durability?