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Summer Time Rendering Revision Edition #5 FT. Tier 1 Upgrade Revision

NIK_FARIS said:
Would this be enough superiority to qualify for low 1-C?
Click to expand...
Sounds like 2-B or 2-A. Since the comparison is "They're above others like a 3D person is above a 2D thing". Which would be 4D rather than 5D.

You'd have to prove that they're above the fourth dimension, which the OP shows that they aren't. The only thing that could be 5-D is Tokoyo, but it lacks a temporal dimension so it's just a higher level of 2-B or 2-A.
 
Well at least 2-B it is then. It's made certain that nothing in this verse can make it Low 1-C seeing the new standards for r>f. Im guessing everything else in the op is fine, can everything be applied now? @Qawsedf234
 
Honestly I have more to say but I rather make a new CRT (late next month I guess since I have exams close by) rather than making the thread more clutter than it already is.
 
Im guessing everything can be added now right? 2 mods have agreed so far and this thread has been open for a long time with everyone coming to one conclusion so like.
 
Worthless said:
It overlook the flow of time from a higher dimension and observe multiple parallel worlds/timelines"
Click to expand...
So to explain: There's general two ways to get Low 1-C cosmology wise:
  • Have 5 Spatial Dimensions
  • Have a Space that's 4th-Dimensional with a Time Axis
  • Transcend a 4th Dimensional space
What we have here, from what I can see, is an issue with Tokoyo
  • It's called 4th Dimensional meaning it's not 5D
  • It has no progression time, meaning you can't get that 4D+1 since you don't have an infinite snap shot of 4D spaces
  • 4D on its own would allow you to modify a 3D+1 space or look at a 3D+1 space as a flat object
You'd have to show them viewing the 4th Dimension as a video game. Just being able to observe or change a timeline is something a Tier 2 character would be able to do.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
What we have here, from what I can see, is an issue with Tokoyo
Click to expand...
The feat is not part of Tokoyo. We are discussing the Eyes ascending the user to a higher dimension, where the user can manipulate time and space, overlook the flow of time and parallel worlds, and destroy the world in the same way a player turns off a video game. I agree that Tokoyo is only 4D. The Eyes, Heina, and Tokyo are all separate matters.
 
Worthless said:
The main issue is how messy this thread is, new scans and ideas keep popping up in the comments, making it harder for admins to actually give a f enough to read the entire thread and grasp the whole situation.
Click to expand...
And yes this thread is chaotic lol
 
Worthless said:
The Eyes, Heina, and Tokyo are all separate matters.
Click to expand...
Unless the Eyes are above Tokoyo then the point stands. To be Low 1-C you would need to show them being immeasurably above a 4th dimensional space, which has not been provided.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Unless the Eyes are above Tokoyo then the point stands. To be Low 1-C you would need to show them being immeasurably above a 4th dimensional space, which has not been provided.
Click to expand...
The 'Tokoyo' is potentially created using the power of the Eyes. These Eyes not only have the ability to control and destroy but also possess the power to create, as evidenced by Nik. And unless I'm mistaken, if a dimension is implied or stated to be higher than both time and space, the logical conclusion should be that it's 5D right? considering the site treats time as 4D. While 'r>f' alone may not be sufficient for 5D, it can be used to further solidify the fact that the dimension in question are superior to both time and space, treating them as nothing but fiction.
 
Worthless said:
Nik. And unless I'm mistaken, if a dimension is implied or stated to be higher than both time and space, the logical conclusion should be that it's 5D right?
Click to expand...
It can be, but not always. If the Eyes aren't transcendent of Tokoyo then they likely aren't Low 1-C rather than just higher into Tier 2.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
It can be, but not always. If the Eyes aren't transcendent of Tokoyo then they likely aren't Low 1-C rather than just higher into Tier 2.
Click to expand...
Albeit indirect and more of a narrative, the way they discuss the said dimension seems to suggest it is a place that exists beyond and predates Tokoyo.

But this is just my personal interpretation on the plot.
 
I still don't think the Tokoyo is a higher dimension, to be honest. It is basically just a three-dimensional space. The Tokoyo being the "fourth dimension" is really just someone's assumption—it came from the mouth of someone who has no actual knowledge about the place. They were just hypothesizing that it must be like that because they heard the world is "above" the mortal one.

As I said before, Tokoyo is simply a world structured above another world (the mortal world) as stated in raw:
ここは“常夜”
Koko wa “Tokoyo”

This is Tokoyo
Click to expand...
わしらの住む現世よりも上にある世界じゃ
Washira no sumu gensei yori mo ue ni aru sekai ja

This is a world that exists above the present world where we live.
Click to expand...

While it exists above the mortal realm, it was not extrapolated further whether their relationship implies some kind of qualitative superiority difference. I provided a comparison of how this is essentially no different than other worlds that exist in most verses. So, generally, the worlds or universes are presented as individual, and they are structured separately and horizontally. There are also those structured not separately and vertically, e.g., a universe like a set, and within it contains a universe that can be said as a subset (Ofc, there are also those that dont apply something like these yeah). The Tokoyo and Mortal World, simply, are those that are only separately and structured vertically and don't follow the same logic as the latter.

In this verse, in the case of this verse, Haine's World i.e. Tokoyo and the Mortal World are structured vertically but separately from each other, not following the logic of a universe containing another one within it. And Haine's World and the Mortal World dont have any qualitative superiority differences, they only differ constructively; the former only has 3 spatial axes while the latter has 3 spatial axes with 1 temporal axis. For all forms of qualitative superiority differences indicated in the verse are merely descriptions of superiority for the eyes holders, where the eyes holder would obtain transcendental powers with full control over space and time, as shown by Shide's memory of intensely taking Ushio's eyes, he wanted to destroy the world like turning off a game console. All analogies depicting superiority only describe how powerful the possessor of the eyes would be, they don't directly refer to the cosmological superiority.

And one thing, Tokoyo wasn't created by the eyes, the creative power of the eyes is only to actualize the realities/possibilities which are already exist to what the user desires, and this is only possible if the eyes are awakened (so far no one has used it, not even Ushio before EoS).
 
Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl said:
All analogies depicting superiority only describe how powerful the possessor of the eyes would be, they don't directly refer to the cosmological superiority.
Click to expand...
I could make the same argument against all verses with similar feats. You haven't really provided much beyond an argument rooted in your disbelief and doubt. Disregarding the 4D statement and the blatantly higher dimensionality for the eyes without a substantial counter-argument is just a waste of time.
 
My skepticism or doubts do not necessarily mean they are entirely without basis. These doubts come from subjective interpretation, and here the interpretation in question appears to be just an assumption from someone lacking understanding or knowledge of such things:
Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl said:
The Tokoyo being the "fourth dimension" is really just someone's assumption—it came from the mouth of someone who has no actual knowledge about the place. They were just hypothesizing that it must be like that because they heard the world is "above" the mortal one.
Click to expand...

Contexts cannot be merely examined in a simple way without an evaluative process, otherwise it would be easy to take something meant non-literally as factual. And I've analyzed it yeah:
Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl said:
While it exists above the mortal realm, it was not extrapolated further whether their relationship implies some kind of qualitative superiority difference. I provided a comparison of how this is essentially no different than other worlds that exist in most verses. So, generally, the worlds or universes are presented as individual, and they are structured separately and horizontally. There are also those structured not separately and vertically, e.g., a universe like a set, and within it contains a universe that can be said as a subset (Ofc, there are also those that dont apply something like these yeah). The Tokoyo and Mortal World, simply, are those that are only separately and structured vertically and don't follow the same logic as the latter.

In this verse, in the case of this verse, Haine's World i.e. Tokoyo and the Mortal World are structured vertically but separately from each other, not following the logic of a universe containing another one within it. And Haine's World and the Mortal World dont have any qualitative superiority differences, they only differ constructively; the former only has 3 spatial axes while the latter has 3 spatial axes with 1 temporal axis. For all forms of qualitative superiority differences indicated in the verse are merely descriptions of superiority for the eyes holders, where the eyes holder would obtain transcendental powers with full control over space and time, as shown by Shide's memory of intensely taking Ushio's eyes, he wanted to destroy the world like turning off a game console. All analogies depicting superiority only describe how powerful the possessor of the eyes would be, they don't directly refer to the cosmological superiority.
Click to expand...

I laid out all my thoughts and evaluated them based on what was implied by the contexts. I already said I dont dispute the dimensional transcendence by the eyes—I even believe it could be 5D, yet it still wasn't enough to be Low 1-C. What I dont fully believe or have doubts about is the relationship between Tokoyo and the Mortal realm, given the premises I have repeatedly explained before.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
There's not a bad version of R>F that's useable to my understanding, it'll be called something else since R>F is specifically about the new 1-A and higher tiers.
Click to expand...
So smth like pseudo R>F? Will the characters who were R>F but no longer are due to recent changes will lose their Tier 1?
 
Satanichia_Chlammy_Mafahl said:
My skepticism or doubts do not necessarily mean they are entirely without basis. These doubts come from subjective interpretation, and here the interpretation in question appears to be just an assumption from someone lacking understanding or knowledge of such things:

Contexts cannot be merely examined in a simple way without an evaluative process, otherwise it would be easy to take something meant non-literally as factual. And I've analyzed it yeah:

I laid out all my thoughts and evaluated them based on what was implied by the contexts. I already said I dont dispute the dimensional transcendence by the eyes—I even believe it could be 5D, yet it still wasn't enough to be Low 1-C. What I dont fully believe or have doubts about is the relationship between Tokoyo and the Mortal realm, given the premises I have repeatedly explained before.
Click to expand...
You are still not presenting anything beyond unfounded doubts, especially when the verse in question contains numerous higher-dimensional statements with some having thorough explanations. Treating the 4D statement as literal is not unreasonable, given that the verse has already established higher dimensions as something real. If you insist, I don't mind agreeing, but limiting it to "possibly 4D" instead of entirely removing it simply because you feel it's insufficient enough doesn't really make sense. And fiction treating 4D as something independent of the lower world is not really new. If I recall correctly, even Sailor Moon depicts the 4D above the mortal realm, completely independent of it, while making it clear that it exists above the world and is not merely another 'different' dimension.

Unless it's the rules here. But I've never really talk about 4D before and usually only 5D
 
You should create a comprehensive summary first before we mentioned them, otherwise, they can only address what is shown in your post. This includes explaining whether the Eyes should be 2B/2A or low 1-C, and whether Heina should scale to the Eyes or her creation feats and the question of whether Tokoyo should be considered 4D, 5D, or both not.
 
Worthless said:
You should create a comprehensive summary first before we mentioned them, otherwise, they can only address what is shown in your post. This includes explaining whether the Eyes should be 2B/2A or low 1-C, and whether Heina should scale to the Eyes or her creation feats and the question of whether Tokoyo should be considered 4D, 5D, or both not.
Click to expand...
Alr, I'll do that soon
 
This is a summary based off everything that has happened in this thread.
Haine Scaling;
Haine herself scales unquantifabily higher than 2-B, Possibly Low 1-C. Here's why; Everything shadow related depends on the existence of Haine. Her son, Shadows who are severed in connection to her, and her eyes.... All these things get utterly erased without of existence. The eyes themselves let the user view time on a higher dimension, render entire world's (2-B) reality while destroying the previous ones, makes the user view 3D structures as 2D" as a comparison to the cosmology that exists in the verse. The eyes lose their power and become normal eyes when she dies. The characters who can harm her like shide and ushio (who scale to her) also die upon death. Even on her death bed she still scales to tokoyo as everything is connected to her memories/data. Not having Low 1-C is fine foe now if it's not accepted as unquantifabily higher than baseline 2-B can work

Tokoyo Scaling;
Tokoyo is a dimension devoid of time that exists vertically above the cosmology. It's assumed to be 4D by shinpei who has little knowledge on it from Dr Hishigata's summary and Hizuru's books. The dimension contains the island of Hitogashima which is the verse's setting. The island itself isn't that big, its about 3.3 miles. In the end, Tokoyo will scale to "At least (calculated tier), Likely Universe level+"
That's it. But maybe in the future, i or nik might upgrade tokoyo's scaling
 
Fallen_Angelicx said:
Uh who can i ask to open Shinpei's page? Its currently locked
Click to expand...
I opened the profile but what is the meaning of this edit?

vsbattles.fandom.com

Shinpei Ajiro

Shinpei Ajiro (網あ代じろ 慎しん平ぺい, Ajiro Shinpei?) is a 17-year-old boy who returned to his hometown of Hitogashima for the first time in two years to attend the funeral of his childhood friend, Ushio Kofune. Since he lost his parents at an early age and grew up in the Kofune family, he has been close...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

I completely cannot find anything related to Low 1-C being approved at all in the CRT you linked for that.
 
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