Summer Time Rendering: Possible 6-D cosmology revision

[Fallen_Angelicx]

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[Wikisource]

Near two weeks passed without staff's input...

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Near two weeks passed without staff's input...

We're cooked

 

[Wikisource]

We're cooked

 

[Duedate8898]

While I can see the logic behind the Sandbox, I will point out that one of the scans does specifically point out that Tokyo appears to be the Fourth Dimension. And that kinda bites into the cosmology going into anything above Low 1-C. The idea of a hyper-timeline isn't itself brought up in any of the scans you're showing, it appears to be more a conclusion made based off of what's been shown.

While I think this cosmology blog works fine for Low 1-C, due to contradicting statements in the manga itself I don't see how it'd get into just 1-C

 

[Wikisource]

The idea of a hyper-timeline isn't itself brought up in any of the scans you're showing, it appears to be more a conclusion made based off of what's been shown.

Well, it's not mentioned in the verse so I just prove it from what's been shown.

While I think this cosmology blog works fine for Low 1-C, due to contradicting statements in the manga itself I don't see how it'd get into just 1-C

Which contradicting statements?

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

I will point out that one of the scans does specifically point out that Tokyo appears to be the Fourth Dimension

Based on what? If you mean the Shinpei statement then that's simply his limited understanding of "Higher Dimension".
Haine aka the creator of the dimension states Tokoyo is a world above where Shinpei is from and he replies with "So this is the fourth dimension?", it's clearly not a verbatim statement but Shinpei's understanding of a Higher Dimension compared to his '3D world'.
It's the equivalent of guessing an answer based off a question asked.
In summary it doesn't affect the scaling in anyway especially with other evident statements.

 

[Duedate8898]

The statement does affect the scaling because that is far more explicit and direct than the whole Hypertimeline proposed within the blog.

A character outright calling Tokyo the Fourth Dimension, combined with all of your scans saying that shadows orignate from there including the eye as well, point more towards the verse topping off at 4D because all of these things are explicit and even implicit within the provided scans.

The existence of a hypertimeline is neither implicit nor explicit going off the currently provided scans. What instead appears to have occured is the assertion of the hypertimeline based off of how things should work if the time travel shenanigans of the story were consistent internally. However, without the story itself hinting at or outright mentioning a hypertimeline, there isn't enough evidence to prove the idea.

The blog is fine for the most part, however, its lacking in scans proving that the cosmology goes above Low 1-C

 

[Mizuki67]

The statement does affect the scaling because that is far more explicit and direct than the whole Hypertimeline proposed within the blog.

A character outright calling Tokyo the Fourth Dimension, combined with all of your scans saying that shadows orignate from there including the eye as well, point more towards the verse topping off at 4D because all of these things are explicit and even implicit within the provided scans.

The existence of a hypertimeline is neither implicit nor explicit going off the currently provided scans. What instead appears to have occured is the assertion of the hypertimeline based off of how things should work if the time travel shenanigans of the story were consistent internally. However, without the story itself hinting at or outright mentioning a hypertimeline, there isn't enough evidence to prove the idea.

The blog is fine for the most part, however, its lacking in scans proving that the cosmology goes above Low 1-C

I still think the Tokoyo can be an r>f based on how it describe like the part where they control cosmology by flipping the book or how they explain the part where 3D can control 2D. Honestly no idea why plot manipulation is not there on their profiles

 

[Wikisource]

The statement does affect the scaling because that is far more explicit and direct than the whole Hypertimeline proposed within the blog.

I don't think that so, argee that if there a statement, everything would be easier and clearer. But it doesn't mean it nessessary.

A character outright calling Tokyo the Fourth Dimension, combined with all of your scans saying that shadows orignate from there including the eye as well, point more towards the verse topping off at 4D because all of these things are explicit and even implicit within the provided scans.

I think you have some misunderstood. He not "calling", he is "asking". Becasue he just 3-D being and in his perception, a world above is 4-D. But Haine said that the Tokoyo is a world above ordinary world and overcomes time. This was explained by Fallen.

The existence of a hypertimeline is neither implicit nor explicit going off the currently provided scans. What instead appears to have occured is the assertion of the hypertimeline based off of how things should work if the time travel shenanigans of the story were consistent internally. However, without the story itself hinting at or outright mentioning a hypertimeline, there isn't enough evidence to prove the idea.

But why? The hypertimeline could be proved, why we need a mention?

The blog is fine for the most part, however, its lacking in scans proving that the cosmology goes above Low 1-C

Can you say clearer? I don't understand what you aim about?

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

The statement does affect the scaling because that is far more explicit and direct than the whole Hypertimeline proposed within the blog.

A character outright calling Tokyo the Fourth Dimension, combined with all of your scans saying that shadows orignate from there including the eye as well, point more towards the verse topping off at 4D because all of these things are explicit and even implicit within the provided scans.

I literally just explained that Shinpei didn't verbatimly say it was 4D. He asked a question based off his understanding of a Higher Dimension, not saying it's actually 4D. This is getting ridiculous as the past threads also have this issue.
How's the cosmology limited to 4D if the real world is already 2-A and the eye aswell as Tokoyo obviously transcending it? I don't understand the downplay in these statements and aswell as the nitpick.

Can you say clearer? I don't understand what you aim about?

Indeed. Could you point out the insufficient evidences we have for 1-C? I'm not understanding why it can't be when we have addressed the major complications the others who've joined the thread had so far.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

If anyone's wondering where the "Fourth Dimension" statement comes from, it's this. To validate our point even more, Shinpei even replies with "Above?" Before relaying the inner thought of it being the fourth dimension. This all means he has no concrete idea of what Haine meant (It's a inner thought aswell) and it's simply his human understanding of a Higher Dimension as any human irl knows by heart that a world above ours would be at least 4D since ours is 3D. Shinpei doesn't even know much about Tokoyo canonically except the Dimension not having time which was relayed to him by Dr Hishigata and The fruits within Tokoyo which was relayed to him By Hizuru's book; who has been researching shadow's her whole life. He's not even knowledgeable, and some are taking his "question" over the words of the creator of the entire realm which is insane to me.

 

[Duedate8898]

But why? The hypertimeline could be proved, why we need a mention?

Because the Hypertimeline isn't proven in the blog. If it was proven, then there would be multiple scans which indicate that the narrative itself recognizes that their is something greater than the timelines to exist that isn't Tokyo. Your entire section on the existence of a Hyper-Timeline never actually shows the story of Summertime Rending mention or alluding to their being something greater than the timelines of the cosmology but lesser than Tokyo.

To be simple about it: Hypertimeline is an idea you're applying to the series not one actually present going off the provided scans. Therefore, the trascendence aspect would only apply up to 4D.

And to address you and @Fallen_Angelicx, the insufficient evidence is that you have none of a hypertimeline. Without the existence of a hypertimeline, Tokyo would only be trascending a 2-A structure which means the cosmology would sit at Low 1-C

 

[Wikisource]

Because the Hypertimeline isn't proven in the blog. If it was proven, then there would be multiple scans which indicate that the narrative itself recognizes that their is something greater than the timelines to exist that isn't Tokyo. Your entire section on the existence of a Hyper-Timeline never actually shows the story of Summertime Rending mention or alluding to their being something greater than the timelines of the cosmology but lesser than Tokyo.

To be simple about it: Hypertimeline is an idea you're applying to the series not one actually present going off the provided scans. Therefore, the trascendence aspect would only apply up to 4D.

And to address you and @Fallen_Angelicx, the insufficient evidence is that you have none of a hypertimeline. Without the existence of a hypertimeline, Tokyo would only be trascending a 2-A structure which means the cosmology would sit at Low 1-C

Alr, something mentioned. First, Shide stated that Shinpei's ability is observe timelines from higher dimension. But it's would be Tokoyo because the power of Haine's eye doesn't work in that because Tokoyo has no time. Besides, the eye onwer only can ascended to Tokoyo when the eye was awakened, and they are not time travel when the eye has awakened because it overcomes time. And many times, when Shinpei travels to the past, he always move in a timeline (same as Ushio). He also can obserses the world when he died, not in Tokoyo. That mean "higher dimension", where Shide mentioned is a hypertimeline. For more of this, when Shinpei died, he will travels to the past but the timeline, where he died will be erased as well, it mean he time travels in higher dimension (mentioned by Shide) and observes the world. Ushio are same because she also have Haine's eye too.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Your entire section on the existence of a Hyper-Timeline never actually shows the story of Summertime Rending mention or alluding to their being something greater than the timelines of the cosmology but lesser than Tokyo.

Yes there does. The entire concept of shinpei time looping with the power of the eyes to infinite tinelines and destroying the previous infinite timelines in response alludes to there being some form of Timelines beyond the one he's from or goes to automatically after dying. There isn't one set of infinite timeline in summary. The eye itself he has the power to specifically take him to timelines where he manages to succeed against his opponents and discards the ones where he loses/gets captured/truly dies without resurrecting- this takes place on a infinite scale..... it leads the reader to Understand that there are timelines beyond what Shinpei can perceive or interact with his eye based on outcome. This has nothing to do with Tokoyo nor is Tokoyo connected to these timelines, it's beyond & inaccessible to these timelines as the blog proves.
Its pretty evident that this isn't a simple 2-A cosmology.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

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[Wikisource]

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[Fallen_Angelicx]

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[Firestorm808]

To clarify, it is possible for people to "time travel" to previously "destroyed" timelines?

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

To clarify, it is possible for people to "time travel" to previously "destroyed" timelines?

Where is this statement pinpointed to tho. What section of the blog

 

[Wikisource]

To clarify, it is possible for people to "time travel" to previously "destroyed" timelines?

Yes, as in sandbox. Ushio can time travel to previous timeline, where shadows still exist to give Haine's eye to Shinpei. Because the eye will disappear when Haine died, that mean the eye can exist because Haine (mother of shadows) still exist.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

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[Vietthai96]

I still think the Tokoyo can be an r>f based on how it describe like the part where they control cosmology by flipping the book or how they explain the part where 3D can control 2D. Honestly no idea why plot manipulation is not there on their profiles

No, false R > F that is used as analogy to describe relationship between higher dimension to lower dimension which is usually 1D difference exist, not every R > F must be true R > F which is 1-A, the fact that the character describe normal human is 3d and manga page is 2d world mean the 1 dimensional difference between human and manga. 1-A true R > F mean the character must see the lower realm completely nonexistent for 1-A to work, akin to empty set

Anyway, i didn't see scan for hypertimeline and the statements about fourth dimension just blast the whole argument to nonexistent. And before you going to say it is just him making a question, the fact that no one attempt to correct and comment on it mean it is true somewhat. Hmm aside from hypertimeline, i could see a possibly Low 1-C for Tokoyo but the fourth dimension shit just..........sigh

 

[Wikisource]

Anyway, i didn't see scan for hypertimeline and the statements about fourth dimension just blast the whole argument to nonexistent. And before you going to say it is just him making a question, the fact that no one attempt to correct and comment on it mean it is true somewhat. Hmm aside from hypertimeline, i could see a possibly Low 1-C for Tokoyo but the fourth dimension shit just..........sigh

No, because he just 3-D being so in his knowledge, higher D is 4-D. And that just his thought, he didn't speak it. So no one say something about it.

According to Shinpei's Shadow observations, to understand how Shinpei's ability works, it is necessary to think and analyze the situation from a four-dimensional point of view, where Shinpei's power allows him to go back in time with his memories intact in every timeline that he died.

Alr, something mentioned. First, Shide stated that Shinpei's ability is observe timelines from higher dimension. But it's would be Tokoyo because the power of Haine's eye doesn't work in that because Tokoyo has no time. Besides, the eye onwer only can ascended to Tokoyo when the eye was awakened, and they are not time travel when the eye has awakened because it overcomes time. And many times, when Shinpei travels to the past, he always move in a timeline (same as Ushio). He also can obserses the world when he died, not in Tokoyo. That mean "higher dimension", where Shide mentioned is a hypertimeline. For more of this, when Shinpei died, he will travels to the past but the timeline, where he died will be erased as well, it mean he time travels in higher dimension (mentioned by Shide) and observes the world. Ushio are same because she also have Haine's eye too.

Yes there does. The entire concept of shinpei time looping with the power of the eyes to infinite tinelines and destroying the previous infinite timelines in response alludes to there being some form of Timelines beyond the one he's from or goes to automatically after dying. There isn't one set of infinite timeline in summary. The eye itself he has the power to specifically take him to timelines where he manages to succeed against his opponents and discards the ones where he loses/gets captured/truly dies without resurrecting- this takes place on a infinite scale..... it leads the reader to Understand that there are timelines beyond what Shinpei can perceive or interact with his eye based on outcome. This has nothing to do with Tokoyo nor is Tokoyo connected to these timelines, it's beyond & inaccessible to these timelines as the blog proves.
Its pretty evident that this isn't a simple 2-A cosmology.

 

[Wikisource]

Anyway, i didn't see scan for hypertimeline and the statements about fourth dimension just blast the whole argument to nonexistent. And before you going to say it is just him making a question, the fact that no one attempt to correct and comment on it mean it is true somewhat. Hmm aside from hypertimeline, i could see a possibly Low 1-C for Tokoyo but the fourth dimension shit just..........sigh

Solved it with Glassman before.

 

[Vietthai96]

No, because he just 3-D being so in his knowledge, higher D is 4-D. And that just his thought, he didn't speak it. So no one say something about it.

Literally the scan you posted stated about four-dimensional point of view, fourth dimension is higher dimensional compare to normal 3 dimensions.

Even if it is just his thought, the absence of evidences just make the whole argument not really matter

Solved it with Glassman before.

Solved what??, ehh... you linked the entire thread, also the fact that the scan you linked does not mention anything higher-dimensional and just observe world so kinda pointless. And even if we take the "higher-dimensional" as true for the sake of discussion then observe world from time dimension is still observe from higher-dimension, since time is 4th dimension which is consideres to be higher dimensional, cause anything higher than 3 is higher dimensional

 

[Wikisource]

Literally the scan you posted stated about four-dimensional point of view, fourth dimension is higher dimensional compare to normal 3 dimensions.

No, because his ability is moving on temporal dimension aka time travel. That why he said that to understand his ability must be in four-dimensional point of view. Not four-direction or same things.

Even if it is just his thought, the absence of evidences just make the whole argument not really matter

What evidences? How can you negate someone's thought when you don't know it. This situation have no meaning.

Solved what??, ehh... you linked the entire thread, also the fact that the scan you linked does not mention anything higher-dimensional and just observe world so kinda pointless. And even if we take the "higher-dimensional" as true for the sake of discussion then observe world from time dimension is still observe from higher-dimension, since time is 4th dimension which is consideres to be higher dimensional, cause anything higher than 3 is higher dimensional

About his question about fourth-dimension. Glassman said same thing with you.

 

[Mizuki67]

No, false R > F that is used as analogy to describe relationship between higher dimension to lower dimension which is usually 1D difference exist, not every R > F must be true R > F which is 1-A, the fact that the character describe normal human is 3d and manga page is 2d world mean the 1 dimensional difference between human and manga. 1-A true R > F mean the character must see the lower realm completely nonexistent for 1-A to work, akin to empty set

Anyway, i didn't see scan for hypertimeline and the statements about fourth dimension just blast the whole argument to nonexistent. And before you going to say it is just him making a question, the fact that no one attempt to correct and comment on it mean it is true somewhat. Hmm aside from hypertimeline, i could see a possibly Low 1-C for Tokoyo but the fourth dimension shit just..........sigh

I mean I don't know how does 1A really work. If that is true then this does not qualify for it sadly

Because Haine was still observing time in a higher dimension

 

[Vietthai96]

No, because his ability is moving on temporal dimension aka time travel. That why he said that to understand his ability must be in four-dimensional point of view. Not four-direction or same things

And??, what does time travel suppose to do here??

What evidences? How can you negate someone's thought when you don't know it. This situation have no meaning

It is still his thoughts, which agaim provide information about the place he currently standing on, which still impact your arguments, unless you want to claim that his thoughts is unreliable thus the fourth dimension statement is not true, which in turn meaning most other statements from him is also unreliable

About his question about fourth-dimension. Glassman said same thing with you.

Eh...would you mind link me to the start of your conversation with him, i don't have much time to check the entire thread

Anyway i'm fine with a possibly Low 1-C rating due to higher plane thingy, for now i will not comment on hypertimeline since i do not have enough information to judge, like what @Duedate8898 have said

 

[Mizuki67]

However I think 1-C seems fine in my opinion they have manage to prove how time travelling works

 

[Wikisource]

And??, what does time travel suppose to do here??

It prove that there are 4-D, and Tokoyo is a higher plane than them. That why Tokoyo is "fourth-dimension" not true here. What are you looking for?

It is still his thoughts, which agaim provide information about the place he currently standing on, which still impact your arguments, unless you want to claim that his thoughts is unreliable thus the fourth dimension statement is not true, which in turn meaning most other statements from him is also unreliable

No? It a question, and a question is used to ask. No one uses a question to make a statement. That is the function of a direct/indirect statement. As for why he asked that and no one said anything, I have already explained.

 

[Wikisource]

Eh...would you mind link me to the start of your conversation with him, i don't have much time to check the entire thread

He said same as you. About Tokoyo is fourth-dimension by Shinpei's question and no one fix it for him. But like I said, it just a question and a thought no one know he thinks like that. And there are some support that Tokoyo is not a fourth-dimension like beyond 4-D world and was stated is a higher plane (all in the sandbox).

Anyway i'm fine with a possibly Low 1-C rating due to higher plane thingy, for now i will not comment on hypertimeline since i do not have enough information to judge, like what @Duedate8898 have said

Btw, Tokoyo already Low 1-C from previous cosmology crt.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

I'm beyond confused as to why we still argue about the Shinpei statement..... Despite me and wiki clearing up the misconceptions....

which still impact your arguments, unless you want to claim that his thoughts is unreliable thus the fourth dimension statement is not true, which in turn meaning most other statements from him is also unreliable

Are you serious?? The only other statements from Shinpei are those relating to his own eye abilities which obviously.... Is linked to him..... Using his own understanding of his power he created analogies based off his eye To further increase his knowledge and/or inform others of how it works. It doesn't have anything to do with his understanding of Tokoyo because his eye abilities isn't linked to the Dimension lol....

 

[Wikisource]

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[Sebas-S.P-san]

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[Sebas-S.P-san]

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Thread in decadence, did you ask the staff about this update?

 

[Wikisource]

Thread in decadence, did you ask the staff about this update?

Yes, I called to many staffs but most of them don't answer.

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

Yes, I called to many staffs but most of them don't answer.

I guess we'll have to ask them again, maybe one of them will respond, for the moment I can only do "Bump".