• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Suisei fights herself (hoshimachi suisei vs ditto)

Artorimachi_Meteoraft

Artorimachi_Meteoraft

25,632
15,962
Ditto: (@Artorimachi_Meteoraft, @Board3659, @Popted2, @LeoEpicGamer8910, @Imaginym @Ikelaggan, @Peppersalt43, @Jamesthetaker) 8

Suisei: (@Witchakorn, @God900, , [USER=13565]@RandomGuy2345, @Reiner, @Sniper670) 5

rules:

ditto is given enough time to transform into suisei

speed equalized

No knowledge of each other

In-character for both

5 meters apart

battle takes place outside the white house

Victory conditions incap or death


Note:

If the rules have any bias. feel free to point it out and i'll correct it to make things more fair. (Just in case) (i want to make sure the fight is fair and there isn't any bias to either side
 
Last edited:
I'm voting for Suisei

Ditto Transforms into Suisei, unfortunately Ditto transformation does not extend into the intelligence and skills of of those it copies.

Conclusion
It comes down to skill and how effective one uses its skills and intelligence and it seems Suisei has the upper hand in that regard.

Win via Outskilling his opponent and beating Ditto to a pulp.
 
Sniper670 said:
I'm voting for Suisei

Ditto Transforms into Suisei, unfortunately Ditto transformation does not extend into the intelligence and skills of of those it copies.

Conclusion
It comes down to skill and how effective one uses its skills and intelligence and it seems Suisei has the upper hand in that regard.

Win via Outskilling his opponent and beating Ditto to a pulp.
Click to expand...
So decisive victory
 
I'm not going to vote yet, but it seems like your argument contradicts @Sniper670's argument about Suisei's skills.
Sniper670 said:
I'm voting for Suisei

Ditto Transforms into Suisei, unfortunately Ditto transformation does not extend into the intelligence and skills of of those it copies.

Conclusion
It comes down to skill and how effective one uses its skills and intelligence and it seems Suisei has the upper hand in that regard.

Win via Outskilling his opponent and beating Ditto to a pulp.
Click to expand...
Artorimachi_Meteoraft said:
as said by @GoldenScorpions

“Suisei doesn't have any direct combat feats, so her skill in combat is unknown.”
Click to expand...
If Suisei lacks combat skills, then I'm not sure how she can outskill Ditto because the profile stated that Pokemon are quite intelligent in combat. She seems to be good at using a flail and a chainsaw, but to what extent is unknown to me.

Of course I'm just raising a question here, I won't vote to either because I feel like both have a good chance to win (and it could be Suisei's first victory too)
 
Jamesthetaker said:
I'm not going to vote yet, but it seems like your argument contradicts @Sniper670's argument about Suisei's skills.


If Suisei lacks combat skills, then I'm not sure how she can outskill Ditto because the profile stated that Pokemon are quite intelligent in combat. She seems to be good at using a flail and a chainsaw, but to what extent is unknown to me.

Of course I'm just raising a question here, I won't vote to either because I feel like both have a good chance to win (and it could be Suisei's first victory too)
Click to expand...
She already won against Hercule satan

but she’s already lost against Finn Bálor, Chisato Nishikigi, and Leone Abbachio
 
Late to commenting, but I was asked to comment on my profile this morning.
Jamesthetaker said:
If Ditto can't replicate a weapon, then Suisei wins because she has a chainsaw, but if it can, it's another story.
Click to expand...
Duplica's Ditto turned INTO a cannon, which then fired Ash's Pikachu.
So it can imitate the function of a cannon, at least, although whether the ammo can be replicated, IDK.

Looking through Bulbapedia's info about Ditto's anime appearances:
'

From https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/DP173
The battle starts and Narissa sends out Ditto Two (the Shiny Ditto) while Ash sends out Infernape. Ditto Two then transforms into Infernape. Narissa checks her Pokédex to see what moves Infernape has and finds out that Ash's Infernape knows Flame Wheel and Mach Punch. However, she has no idea what Flame Wheel is. Ash calls for Infernape to use Flame Wheel and Narissa's Ditto uses Flame Wheel too. The two collide and cancel each other out. Dawn explains that Ditto seems to know whatever moves the Pokémon it transformed into. Ash's Infernape uses Mach Punch and Narissa's Ditto uses Mach Punch too. The two hit each other in the face with Mach Punch and, for a brief moment, the two seem to be evenly matched, but then the two break apart and Narissa's Ditto is sent flying back. It's knocked unconscious and returns to its original Shiny Ditto form.
There, a Ditto (Copying Ash's Infernape.) uses Flame Wheel on command, despite its trainer openly not knowing what the move is. Of course, it could just be Ditto seeing how its used, but the episode features other instances of Narcissa Ditto successfully using moves, albeit, under her in-universedly notedly bad guidance.
That episode features Narissa's two Ditto using other moves as other species, to various levels of success.

Although, knowing the moves of the Pokemon it transforms into is pretty standard fare. Unsure if it matched skill or just power.
Still, a fair bit of that episode is about training for Narissa & her Ditto to improve.

Ash and the group catch up to Team Rocket and the two Ditto walked back to Narissa. Ash is about to send out Pikachu but Narissa offers to battle. James sends out Carnivine and Narissa tells her Ditto to transform into Staraptor to use the Flying-type advantage over Carnivine's Grass-type. Carnivine uses Bullet Seed but the two Ditto dodge it and counters with Aerial Ace. The attacks hit their mark and Carnivine is sent flying back.

Jessie then sends out her Seviper and Ash sends out his Gible to use the Ground-type over Poison-type advantage. Ditto Two transforms into Gible and use Dig, while Ditto One, still as a Staraptor, uses Quick Attack. Both Carnivine and Seviper are knocked back into Team Rocket. Ash decides to use Thunderbolt against Team Rocket, and the two Ditto transform into Pikachu. They use a triple Thunderbolt, which causes an explosion to occur and Team Rocket is sent blasting off.

IDK if those parts of her battle featured her Ditto acting so skillfully without orders, for what its worth.

But it does seem like SOME evidence of skill in using moves, with or without orders can be found amongst Ditto, even if these two are somewhat trained. (Narissa is emphasized as not being a very good trainer, making several openly noted mistakes in her battle against Ash, before the training in the episode.)
IDK how much that applies here.


Beyond that, can't find much.
Feel free to comb it over yourself.

There's also, this, I guess:
bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

Pikachu's Ghost Carnival

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net
As Cubone walks down the hallway, a Lickitung uses Lick on its face. Cubone is scared and pulls on Lickitung's tongue so that it comes down hard to the ground. Cubone finds a mirror and looks at its own reflection, but a Ditto using Transform moves differently. Cubone hits Ditto with the bone, and Ditto is knocked out as it transforms back into Ditto with a bump on its head. Banette, Dusclops, and the other Ghost-type Pokémon come to check on Ditto to make sure it is okay. Everyone feels bad about what happened to Ditto.

If I'm understanding right, it reads like a Ditto copied a Cubone. This would likely include copying the bone Cubone carries about & uses as a weapon. Of course, that could just be the artists being lazy. Or it means that Ditto can copy a species AND an item both at once. (Or the handheld bone was part of the transformation? For that matter, what about the skull helmet?)
That said, that individual Ditto doesn't sound like it's very skilled, imperfectly mirroring Cubone's movements, & then gets knocked out.

Doesn't help that that's 1 of the 9 out of 27 Pikachu Shorts to not air in the US, so no idea where to find scans of it.


I forget, do we allow IQ Skills in Pokemon matches? Do we assume them to apply post-Transform for Ditto?

But Suisei's win condition is being more skilled, with her chainsaw in particular, despite having no feats for it??

Also, her profile doesn't directly say Suisei has Weapon Mastery. It says:
Chainsaw and Flail User, linking to Weapon Mastery, which itself says:
Weapon Mastery refers to the ability to use one or more types of weaponry with greater skill than the average person. This classification can be used for any kind of weapon, such as a sword, spear, knife, or gun. However, the degree of one's skill with any particular weapon should be specified in the Intelligence section of the profile page rather than in the Powers and Abilities section.

Despite what the Weapon Mastery says to do, her intelligence section makes no mention of her chainsaw & flail useage, failing to indicate any skill, "greater than the average person" level or otherwise.
& her link to the ability has no justification.

As for her intelligence itself:
Intelligence: Above Average, possibly Gifted. Suisei is shown to be a creative person during games or activities with her members, like coming up with various pranks or playing pretend so convincingly that Fubuki believed it was true. It's implied she possesses knowledge as vast as Akinator[7]. Her skill in video games is impressive, especially Tetris in which she held her own against the 2nd-ranked player in the world. Suisei is, most of all, a talented and hard-working singer who has released tens of original songs and even appeared on international music projects and programs, as a result of her recognized talent.

So she's creative, does pranks, can convincingly Pretend to fool Fubuki (Who?), implied to have knowledge of a genie on a website that can guess any fictional character based on answers to questions given, is good at video games, especially Tetris, & is a "talented & hard working singer".

So she has creativity & bluffing skills, & knowledge of fiction & video games, & at least has dedication to & talent for song work....
But how much of that is actually relevant for weidling a chainsaw or a flail??


I'm a little bit skeptical about the claim of her being more skilled, given her lack of justification & lack of relevant intelligence.
Artorimachi_Meteoraft said:
She already won against Hercule satan

but she’s already lost against Finn Bálor, Chisato Nishikigi, and Leone Abbachio
Click to expand...
Reading over Hercule Satan's match, I don't see the relevance. That seemed to come down to AP, not Skill.


If it's not too late, voting Ditto; I can't figure out why Suisei is supposed to be skilled just for carrying weapons that we don't know how she actually uses, & Pokemon are supposedly naturally skilled.
In Ditto's case, being able to use moves their target knows, & there seemingly is evidence showing they can act semi-skillfully without a trainer's orders.
& Suisei's intelligence (Aside from MAYBE her pranking/bluffing intelligence.) seems irrelevant here.

Also, as for weaponry, as mentioned, given 1 turning into Cubone (A species that carries about a bone & wears a skull helmet.), & Duplica's Ditto turning into a cannon to fire Pikachu at Team Rocket, it is plausible a Ditto could turn into something & imitate the function of weaponry.
Especially if we're accounting for what other Pokemon it can imitate can do.
 
Imaginym said:
Late to commenting, but I was asked to comment on my profile this morning.

Duplica's Ditto turned INTO a cannon, which then fired Ash's Pikachu.
So it can imitate the function of a cannon, at least, although whether the ammo can be replicated, IDK.

Looking through Bulbapedia's info about Ditto's anime appearances:
'

From https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/DP173
The battle starts and Narissa sends out Ditto Two (the Shiny Ditto) while Ash sends out Infernape. Ditto Two then transforms into Infernape. Narissa checks her Pokédex to see what moves Infernape has and finds out that Ash's Infernape knows Flame Wheel and Mach Punch. However, she has no idea what Flame Wheel is. Ash calls for Infernape to use Flame Wheel and Narissa's Ditto uses Flame Wheel too. The two collide and cancel each other out. Dawn explains that Ditto seems to know whatever moves the Pokémon it transformed into. Ash's Infernape uses Mach Punch and Narissa's Ditto uses Mach Punch too. The two hit each other in the face with Mach Punch and, for a brief moment, the two seem to be evenly matched, but then the two break apart and Narissa's Ditto is sent flying back. It's knocked unconscious and returns to its original Shiny Ditto form.
There, a Ditto (Copying Ash's Infernape.) uses Flame Wheel on command, despite its trainer openly not knowing what the move is. Of course, it could just be Ditto seeing how its used, but the episode features other instances of Narcissa Ditto successfully using moves, albeit, under her in-universedly notedly bad guidance.
That episode features Narissa's two Ditto using other moves as other species, to various levels of success.

Although, knowing the moves of the Pokemon it transforms into is pretty standard fare. Unsure if it matched skill or just power.
Still, a fair bit of that episode is about training for Narissa & her Ditto to improve.

Ash and the group catch up to Team Rocket and the two Ditto walked back to Narissa. Ash is about to send out Pikachu but Narissa offers to battle. James sends out Carnivine and Narissa tells her Ditto to transform into Staraptor to use the Flying-type advantage over Carnivine's Grass-type. Carnivine uses Bullet Seed but the two Ditto dodge it and counters with Aerial Ace. The attacks hit their mark and Carnivine is sent flying back.

Jessie then sends out her Seviper and Ash sends out his Gible to use the Ground-type over Poison-type advantage. Ditto Two transforms into Gible and use Dig, while Ditto One, still as a Staraptor, uses Quick Attack. Both Carnivine and Seviper are knocked back into Team Rocket. Ash decides to use Thunderbolt against Team Rocket, and the two Ditto transform into Pikachu. They use a triple Thunderbolt, which causes an explosion to occur and Team Rocket is sent blasting off.

IDK if those parts of her battle featured her Ditto acting so skillfully without orders, for what its worth.

But it does seem like SOME evidence of skill in using moves, with or without orders can be found amongst Ditto, even if these two are somewhat trained. (Narissa is emphasized as not being a very good trainer, making several openly noted mistakes in her battle against Ash, before the training in the episode.)
IDK how much that applies here.


Beyond that, can't find much.
Feel free to comb it over yourself.

There's also, this, I guess:
bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

Pikachu's Ghost Carnival

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net
As Cubone walks down the hallway, a Lickitung uses Lick on its face. Cubone is scared and pulls on Lickitung's tongue so that it comes down hard to the ground. Cubone finds a mirror and looks at its own reflection, but a Ditto using Transform moves differently. Cubone hits Ditto with the bone, and Ditto is knocked out as it transforms back into Ditto with a bump on its head. Banette, Dusclops, and the other Ghost-type Pokémon come to check on Ditto to make sure it is okay. Everyone feels bad about what happened to Ditto.

If I'm understanding right, it reads like a Ditto copied a Cubone. This would likely include copying the bone Cubone carries about & uses as a weapon. Of course, that could just be the artists being lazy. Or it means that Ditto can copy a species AND an item both at once. (Or the handheld bone was part of the transformation? For that matter, what about the skull helmet?)
That said, that individual Ditto doesn't sound like it's very skilled, imperfectly mirroring Cubone's movements, & then gets knocked out.

Doesn't help that that's 1 of the 9 out of 27 Pikachu Shorts to not air in the US, so no idea where to find scans of it.


I forget, do we allow IQ Skills in Pokemon matches? Do we assume them to apply post-Transform for Ditto?

But Suisei's win condition is being more skilled, with her chainsaw in particular, despite having no feats for it??

Also, her profile doesn't directly say Suisei has Weapon Mastery. It says:
Chainsaw and Flail User, linking to Weapon Mastery, which itself says:
Weapon Mastery refers to the ability to use one or more types of weaponry with greater skill than the average person. This classification can be used for any kind of weapon, such as a sword, spear, knife, or gun. However, the degree of one's skill with any particular weapon should be specified in the Intelligence section of the profile page rather than in the Powers and Abilities section.

Despite what the Weapon Mastery says to do, her intelligence section makes no mention of her chainsaw & flail useage, failing to indicate any skill, "greater than the average person" level or otherwise.
& her link to the ability has no justification.

As for her intelligence itself:
Intelligence: Above Average, possibly Gifted. Suisei is shown to be a creative person during games or activities with her members, like coming up with various pranks or playing pretend so convincingly that Fubuki believed it was true. It's implied she possesses knowledge as vast as Akinator[7]. Her skill in video games is impressive, especially Tetris in which she held her own against the 2nd-ranked player in the world. Suisei is, most of all, a talented and hard-working singer who has released tens of original songs and even appeared on international music projects and programs, as a result of her recognized talent.

So she's creative, does pranks, can convincingly Pretend to fool Fubuki (Who?), implied to have knowledge of a genie on a website that can guess any fictional character based on answers to questions given, is good at video games, especially Tetris, & is a "talented & hard working singer".

So she has creativity & bluffing skills, & knowledge of fiction & video games, & at least has dedication to & talent for song work....
But how much of that is actually relevant for weidling a chainsaw or a flail??


I'm a little bit skeptical about the claim of her being more skilled, given her lack of justification & lack of relevant intelligence.

Reading over Hercule Satan's match, I don't see the relevance. That seemed to come down to AP, not Skill.


If it's not too late, voting Ditto; I can't figure out why Suisei is supposed to be skilled just for carrying weapons that we don't know how she actually uses, & Pokemon are supposedly naturally skilled.
In Ditto's case, being able to use moves their target knows, & there seemingly is evidence showing they can act semi-skillfully without a trainer's orders.
& Suisei's intelligence (Aside from MAYBE her pranking/bluffing intelligence.) seems irrelevant here.
Click to expand...
You can get @GoldenScorpions for this
 
Suisei doesn't have any direct combat feats, nor does she directly fight anyone. Her skill in combat is unknown. This unknown applies to her weapons, too. We see her wield a chainsaw and threaten someone with it, as well as swing a flail ready to attack someone else. But we never see her actively fighting with them as of yet.
Which is why I listed it as "Chainsaw and Flail User", not "Chainsaw and Flail Master" or "Proficient/Skilled with Chainsaw and Flail". All we see is Suisei wield and use the weapons, not attack with them, so it's unknown what her level of skill with them is.

Simply put:
Suisei is a talented singer who can run fast, shrink, grant wishes, lift and throw boulders, has very high stamina, can survive getting caught in tornadoes, owns two weapons, is a good thinker, is persevering, has a method of running ridiculously fast with the cardboard train, and has a weird biological shenanigan with cooking.
 
GoldenScorpions said:
Suisei doesn't have any direct combat feats, nor does she directly fight anyone. Her skill in combat is unknown. This unknown applies to her weapons, too. We see her wield a chainsaw and threaten someone with it, as well as swing a flail ready to attack someone else. But we never see her actively fighting with them as of yet.
Which is why I listed it as "Chainsaw and Flail User", not "Chainsaw and Flail Master" or "Proficient/Skilled with Chainsaw and Flail". All we see is Suisei wield and use the weapons, not attack with them, so it's unknown what her level of skill with them is.
Click to expand...
So, if her skill is Unknown, AKA, not known, then why does she have Weapon Mastery linked for it, which is supposed to be for people with "the ability to use one or more types of weaponry with greater skill than the average person."?
I'd assume that if we don't know her skill, then we can't claim it's above average.

This is especially concerning because the vote seemingly being FRA'd here:
Sniper670 said:
I'm voting for Suisei

Ditto Transforms into Suisei, unfortunately Ditto transformation does not extend into the intelligence and skills of of those it copies.

Conclusion
It comes down to skill and how effective one uses its skills and intelligence and it seems Suisei has the upper hand in that regard.

Win via Outskilling his opponent and beating Ditto to a pulp.
Click to expand...
If that reasoning (Suisei outskills.) is invalidated, then presumably, so are the votes that FRA'd it.
GoldenScorpions said:
Simply put:
Suisei is a talented singer who can run fast, shrink, grant wishes, lift and throw boulders, has very high stamina, can survive getting caught in tornadoes, owns two weapons, is a good thinker, is persevering, has a method of running ridiculously fast with the cardboard train, and has a weird biological shenanigan with cooking.
Click to expand...
AFAIK, most, if not all of those abilities would be copied by Ditto, & presumably, like with moves, it'd be able to use them.
& presumably, Suisei lacks combat experience to use them relevantly, unlike Ditto?
It's nice of you to summarize the profile, though.
I've already cast my vote. I'll wait for any other input.


It may also be able to imitate the functionality of a flail &/or chainsaw, given what I've read. Speaking of that topic:
Jamesthetaker said:
If Ditto can't replicate a weapon, then Suisei wins because she has a chainsaw, but if it can, it's another story.

Count my vote for Suisei until Pokemon supporters bring that up.
Click to expand...
I've commented on that matter you've brought up. It may be worthwhile to clarify your stance in light of it.

BTW, @Artorimachi_Meteoraft :
You mention in the title 1 vote left.
Are you assuming someone retracted their vote, or something? Wasn't it at 7 before?

From Versus Thread Rules:
  • For a verdict, there must be at least seven votes in favor of one character/team, with a minimum difference of three votes. Some examples:
    • A final vote tally of 6-0 will be considered invalid.
    • A final vote tally of 7-0 will be considered valid.
    • A final vote tally of 7-4 will be considered valid.
    • A final vote tally of 7-5 will be considered invalid.
Thus, a 7-1 thread is valid.

Speaking of, what is the vote count at this time, anyway?
 
Last edited:
Imaginym said:
So, if her skill is Unknown, AKA, not known, then why does she have Weapon Mastery linked for it, which is supposed to be for people with "the ability to use one or more types of weaponry with greater skill than the average person."?
I'd asusme that if we don't know her skill, then we can't claim it's above average.

This is especially concerning because the vote seemingly being FRA'd here:

If that reasoning (Suisei outskills.) is invalidated, then presumably, so are the votes that FRA'd it.

AFAIK, most, if not all of those abilities would be copied by Ditto, & presumably, like with moves, it'd be able to use them.
& presumably, Suisei lacks combat experience to use them relevantly, unlike Ditto?
It's nice of you to summarize the profile, though.
I've already cast my vote. I'll wait for any other input.


It may also be able to imitate the functionality of a flail &/or chainsaw, given what I've read. Speaking of that topic:

I've commented on that matter you've brought up. It may be worthwhile to clarify your stance in light of it.

BTW, @Artorimachi_Meteoraft :
You mention in the title 1 vote left.
Are you assuming someone retracted their vote, or something? Wasn't it at 7 before?

From Versus Thread Rules:
  • For a verdict, there must be at least seven votes in favor of one character/team, with a minimum difference of three votes. Some examples:
    • A final vote tally of 6-0 will be considered invalid.
    • A final vote tally of 7-0 will be considered valid.
    • A final vote tally of 7-4 will be considered valid.
    • A final vote tally of 7-5 will be considered invalid.
Thus, a 7-1 thread is valid.

Speaking of, what is the vote count at this time, anyway?
Click to expand...
Still the same.

I’m going to switch my vote to ditto
 
Can Ditto Create Sushi like her?
Susei will share sushi to Her Copyself the end.
Ditto can copy almost everything but still act diffrently if we dont count ditto in Deteactive pikachu that look perfect.
 
Imaginym said:
So she's creative, does pranks, can convincingly Pretend to fool Fubuki (Who?), implied to have knowledge of a genie on a website that can guess any fictional character based on answers to questions given, is good at video games, especially Tetris, & is a "talented & hard working singer".
Click to expand...
If suisei knew tetris game that mean pokemon games should exist too.
but is suisei play pokemon game and learn about ditto before?
if suisei know about ditto already that would be advantage for her.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Artorimachi_Meteoraft
  • Locked
The hunter fights an idol
2
Replies
55
Views
2K
Artorimachi_Meteoraft
Artorimachi_Meteoraft
XxZetsuxX
Vtuber VS A Child
2
Replies
60
Views
4K
Shadowslash125
Shadowslash125
Artorimachi_Meteoraft
Spiderman (electric company) vs suisei hoshimachi
Replies
20
Views
1K
Artorimachi_Meteoraft
Artorimachi_Meteoraft
Artorimachi_Meteoraft
beast vs suisei hoshimachi (disney vs hololive)
Replies
6
Views
1K
AThe1412
AThe1412
Artorimachi_Meteoraft
a crime lord fights a vtuber (Jack horner vs suisei hoshimachi)
2
Replies
56
Views
3K
AThe1412
AThe1412
Back
Top