a crime lord fights a vtuber (Jack horner vs suisei hoshimachi)

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Jack horner

suisei hoshimachi

Rules:

Speed equalized

suisei is bloodlusted

no knowledge of each other

battle takes place at the national mall in washington D.C.

Jack's optional equipment is restricted.

they start 2 meters apart


Victory Conditions: Incapacitation or death

Note:

If the rules have any bias. feel free to point it out and i'll correct it to make things more fair. (Just in case) (i want to make sure the fight is fair and there isn't any bias to either side)

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

I prefer the speed not being equalized here in the fashion of the Speed Equalization Rules and Assumptions.

• In the case that Suisei's relativistic+ cardboard train speed counts as a speed amplifier, it doesn't get reduced at all and it means Jack's subsonic combat speed gets reduced to Suisei's at least superhuman speed, which is almost the same thing, except Jack's overall speed that is superhuman gets reduced by the same amount as well. This gives Jack less of an opportunity to potentially counter his major speed disadvantage that he has no matter if speed is equalized in the default way or not.
• In the case that Suisei's relativistic+ cardboard train speed doesn't count as a speed amplifier, which is a possible reasonable interpretation because Suisei uses her own legs to run at relativistic+ speed while using the cardboard train that doesn't appear to have confirmed magical properties, that means relativistic+ would be reduced to subsonic, and Suisei's other types of speed would be reduced by the same amount, making her overall speed ridiculously below average.

I'll analyze the matchup without speed being equalized.

Suisei scales slightly above 896,500 Joules while Jack is comparable to 1,991,488 Joules, meaning Jack has stronger attack potency. He also has superior reaction and combat speed on his own. However, Suisei is far faster than Jack while using a cardboard train, and Suisei has stronger lifting strength. The battle conditions have Suisei as bloodlusted, and in that case, she has the very clear and easy win condition of using the cardboard train to speed blitz Jack. Jack could probably reach the cardboard train before Suisei would start using her high speed with it, but I think it's unlikely for Jack to try stealing it, because he probably wouldn't expect it to be useful until he's too late to stop it from defeating him. I vote for Suisei winning the battle.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I prefer the speed not being equalized here in the fashion of the Speed Equalization Rules and Assumptions.

• In the case that Suisei's relativistic+ cardboard train speed counts as a speed amplifier, it doesn't get reduced at all and it means Jack's subsonic combat speed gets reduced to Suisei's at least superhuman speed, which is almost the same thing, except Jack's overall speed that is superhuman gets reduced by the same amount as well. This gives Jack less of an opportunity to potentially counter his major speed disadvantage that he has no matter if speed is equalized in the default way or not.
• In the case that Suisei's relativistic+ cardboard train speed doesn't count as a speed amplifier, which is a possible reasonable interpretation because Suisei uses her own legs to run at relativistic+ speed while using the cardboard train that doesn't appear to have confirmed magical properties, that means relativistic+ would be reduced to subsonic, and Suisei's other types of speed would be reduced by the same amount, making her overall speed ridiculously below average.

I'll analyze the matchup without speed being equalized.

Suisei scales slightly above 896,500 Joules while Jack is comparable to 1,991,488 Joules, meaning Jack has stronger attack potency. He also has superior reaction and combat speed on his own. However, Suisei is far faster than Jack while using a cardboard train, and Suisei has stronger lifting strength. The battle conditions have Suisei as bloodlusted, and in that case, she has the very clear and easy win condition of using the cardboard train to speed blitz Jack. Jack could probably reach the cardboard train before Suisei would start using her high speed with it, but I think it's unlikely for Jack to try stealing it, because he probably wouldn't expect it to be useful until he's too late to stop it from defeating him. I vote for Suisei winning the battle.

cardboard train she can't attack while using it since she has to hold it while using it. if she wants to attack she has to take it off obviously

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

cardboard train she can't attack while using it since she has to hold it while using it. if she wants to attack she has to take it off obviously

If the cardboard train doesn't have properties preventing it from being harmful when Suisei runs with it, then Jack getting hit by the train as it's moving at its super speed would be enough to defeat him. I wasn't imagining some sort of relativistic+ combo attack.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

If the cardboard train doesn't have properties preventing it from being harmful when Suisei runs with it, then Jack getting hit by the train as it's moving at its super speed would be enough to defeat him. I wasn't imagining some sort of relativistic+ combo attack.

is it still possible with speed equalization for him to win?

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

is it still possible with speed equalization for him to win?

In the case that Suisei's cardboard train counts as a speed amplification, I don't think speed equalization helps Jack.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

In the case that Suisei's cardboard train counts as a speed amplification, I don't think speed equalization helps Jack.

regardless can he still have a chance of winning?

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

regardless can he still have a chance of winning?

Yes. It's possible for Jack to take the cardboard train before Suisei uses it, or for Jack to use the stat advantages that he does have. The close starting distance is a good benefit for him.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Yes. It's possible for Jack to take the cardboard train before Suisei uses it, or for Jack to use the stat advantages that he does have. The close starting distance is a good benefit for him.

so voting for suisei

 

[ShionAH]

How tf is Jack gonna know he has to take the train?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

How tf is Jack gonna know he has to take the train?

you think jack has a chance of winning like james said?

 

[ShionAH]

you think jack has a chance of winning like james said?

No

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

No

he's still way stronger though.


also the sushi thing is not standard equipment so no transmutation

 

[ShionAH]

he's still way stronger though.

DUDE
ITS A BLITZ HOW DOES AP MATTER WTF

also the sushi thing is not standard equipment so no transmutation

THAT IS IRRELEVANT BECAUSE ITS A USELESS HAX WHY TF WOULD ANYONE EAT HER SUSHI MID BATTLE

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

so voting for suisei

Yes, I'm still voting for Suisei winning the battle because that would be more likely to happen.

How tf is Jack gonna know he has to take the train?

Jack wouldn't need to know that he would need to take the cardboard train. The starting distance of the combatants is set at only two meters and it's possible that Jack would try taking the cardboard train away from Suisei because he might think that Suisei getting into it would mean that it would benefit her, which is something he would want to prevent. Jack has a major focus on magical items, and a lot of the ones that he has collected appear as mundane objects, so there is a likelihood of him thinking to take Suisei's cardboard train.

 

[ShionAH]

Jack wouldn't need to know that he would need to take the cardboard train. The starting distance of the combatants is set at only two meters and it's possible that Jack would try taking the cardboard train away from Suisei because he might think that Suisei getting into it would mean that it would benefit her, which is something he would want to prevent. Jack has a major focus on magical items, and a lot of the ones that he has collected appear as mundane objects, so there is a likelihood of him thinking to take Suisei's cardboard train.

First of all its a CARDBOARD TRAIN. Theres no universe where Jack would take that serious or would consider it as magical. Second of all we already know how Jack acts in battle and let me tell you he is not a combat genius at all, the guy literally was joking more than half his screen time.

Saying Jack will suddenly go batman and realize the danger and take the carboard before Suzie simply jumps on it is simply wrong.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

First of all its a CARDBOARD TRAIN. Theres no universe where Jack would take that serious or would consider it as magical. Second of all we already know how Jack acts in battle and let me tell you he is not a combat genius at all, the guy literally was joking more than half his screen time.

He comes from a universe where a normal looking cookie can turn him into a giant when he eats it, and before he even took a bite out of it to see that it's truly magical, he collected it so he could add it to his collection of magical items. A character doesn't need to be a genius to realize a potential threat that they may be familiar with. Normal humans can do that. Jack comes from a setting where mundane items can be deadly, so if he sees an opponent bothering to get into a seemingly harmless cardboard train, it's not a stretch to think that he might realize that the seemingly harmless object is actually dangerous.

Saying Jack will suddenly go batman and realize the danger and take the carboard before Suzie simply jumps on it is simply wrong.

I didn't claim that he will "go Batman", I claimed that he "might think" that the cardboard box is important and try to act on that realization.

 

[ShionAH]

He comes from a universe where a normal looking cookie can turn him into a giant when he eats it, and before he even took a bite out of it to see that it's truly magical, he collected it so he could add it to his collection of magical items. A character doesn't need to be a genius to realize a potential threat that they may be familiar with. Normal humans can do that. Jack comes from a setting where mundane items can be deadly, so if he sees an opponent bothering to get into a seemingly harmless cardboard train, it's not a stretch to think that he might realize that the seemingly harmless object is actually dangerous.

No. Jack only knew about the treasures is because he studied them. This cardboard is wild to him and he has no idea how it works

I didn't claim that he will "go Batman", I claimed that he "might think" that the cardboard box is important and try to act on that realization.

He “might think” is the worst way to try to push this fight and make it “fair” sorry bucko but I am not that dumb lol

This match is unfair, a stomp, biased towards suzie (Bloodlusted and Jacks items are restricted…) I am out

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

No. Jack only knew about the treasures is because he studied them. This cardboard is wild to him and he has no idea how it works

The fact that studying magical items that look like mundane items is even a thing that Jack can and is something that he does do just proves my point. If a seemingly harmless object being magical is the kind of thing that Jack has a keen understanding about, then Suisei attempting to use one against him is the kind of tactic that he could expect. The mundane object doesn't have to specifically be one that he's seen be magical before; he could infer that the cardboard train is magical upon seeing that Suisei would try using it in combat. It doesn't take a highly skilled combatant to do something like this.

He “might think” is the worst way to try to push this fight and make it “fair” sorry bucko but I am not that dumb lol

Why is it the worst way to consider the battle as fair? In accordance to what I think of the battle, it would have a noteworthy likelihood of Jack doing something that could prevent Suisei from using her cardboard train, and then Jack has other advantages onward from there. I voted for Suisei winning because I think that, with her having her cardboard train and with her being bloodlusted, it's more likely for her to use it and succeed than for Jack to successfully prevent her from using it. I think that both outcomes are not unlikely, so my thoughts about the battle are that it's fair.

Nothing I wrote suggested that you're dumb and nothing I wrote has an ulterior motive that I thought you would fall for.

This match is unfair, a stomp, biased towards suzie (Bloodlusted and Jacks items are restricted…) I am out

Suisei is made bloodlusted because she probably wouldn't fight effectively against Jack to stand a chance otherwise. Jack's items are restricted because he can one-shot using them, which wouldn't make for as much of an interesting discussion compared to a scenario where those items are absent.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

The fact that studying magical items that look like mundane items is even a thing that Jack can and is something that he does do just proves my point. If a seemingly harmless object being magical is the kind of thing that Jack has a keen understanding about, then Suisei attempting to use one against him is the kind of tactic that he could expect. The mundane object doesn't have to specifically be one that he's seen be magical before; he could infer that the cardboard train is magical upon seeing that Suisei would try using it in combat. It doesn't take a highly skilled combatant to do something like this.

Why is it the worst way to consider the battle as fair? In accordance to what I think of the battle, it would have a noteworthy likelihood of Jack doing something that could prevent Suisei from using her cardboard train, and then Jack has other advantages onward from there. I voted for Suisei winning because I think that, with her having her cardboard train and with her being bloodlusted, it's more likely for her to use it and succeed than for Jack to successfully prevent her from using it. I think that both outcomes are not unlikely, so my thoughts about the battle are that it's fair.

Nothing I wrote suggested that you're dumb and nothing I wrote has an ulterior motive that I thought you would fall for.

Suisei is made bloodlusted because she probably wouldn't fight effectively against Jack to stand a chance otherwise. Jack's items are restricted because he can one-shot using them, which wouldn't make for as much of an interesting discussion compared to a scenario where those items are absent.

Not to mention I think he doesn’t understand how suisei’s Train exactly works.

how the heck would Jack get one-shotted anyway (he’s way stronger and durable than suisei)

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

how the heck would Jack get one-shotted anyway (he’s way stronger and durable than suisei)

I don't know if kinetic energy applies to the super speed of the cardboard train, but if it does, then Jack would get one-shot by it. I estimate that the calculated speed of the cardboard train would produce mountain level energy, but I may be mistaken. Even if the damage of the cardboard train's movement doesn't matter, Jack getting rammed by it should be enough to launch him out of the battle anyway.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I don't know if kinetic energy applies to the super speed of the cardboard train, but if it does, then Jack would get one-shot by it. I estimate that the calculated speed of the cardboard train would produce mountain level energy, but I may be mistaken. Even if the damage of the cardboard train's movement doesn't matter, Jack getting rammed by it should be enough to launch him out of the battle anyway.

Yeah but if that were the case then we would see that kind of ap on her profile

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Yeah but if that were the case then we would see that kind of ap on her profile

So the interpretation of Jack getting launched out of the battle is probably the one that should be used instead of the energy production one.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

So the interpretation of Jack getting launched out of the battle is probably the one that should be used instead of the energy production one.

She’s never rammed anyone with it before I’m not sure if it’s possible.

you better ask @GoldenScorpions

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

She’s never rammed anyone with it before I’m not sure if it’s possible.

you better ask @GoldenScorpions

I'm pretty sure it's fine to assume that it's possible for the cardboard train to be rammed into something, because it's not as though Suisei has intangibility listed on her profile to prevent the cardboard train from colliding with other things.

 

[ShionAH]

I don't know if kinetic energy applies to the super speed of the cardboard train, but if it does, then Jack would get one-shot by it. I estimate that the calculated speed of the cardboard train would produce mountain level energy, but I may be mistaken. Even if the damage of the cardboard train's movement doesn't matter, Jack getting rammed by it should be enough to launch him out of the battle anyway.

I am not reading all that but we never even saw Jack go fist fight mode so we also have no idea how he is gonna fight which means Suzie can outskill and take the cardboard train. Another thing is how is Jack realizing the danger running and taking the train/grabbing suzie is faster than suzie simply riding his train? Plus did you know on top all of this Suzie also has an insane LS advantage? I dont see how this is fair

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I am not reading all that but we never even saw Jack go fist fight mode so we also have no idea how he is gonna fight which means Suzie can outskill and take the cardboard train. Another thing is how is Jack realizing the danger running and taking the train/grabbing suzie is faster than suzie simply riding his train? Plus did you know on top all of this Suzie also has an insane LS advantage? I dont see how this is fair

Get the @GoldenScorpions here.

 

[DimeUhDozen]

I am not reading all that but we never even saw Jack go fist fight mode so we also have no idea how he is gonna fight which means Suzie can outskill and take the cardboard train.

Isn't one of the main points that Suisei has nigh no combat experience?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Isn't one of the main points that Suisei has nigh no combat experience?

Yeah

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

I am not reading all that but we never even saw Jack go fist fight mode so we also have no idea how he is gonna fight which means Suzie can outskill and take the cardboard train. Another thing is how is Jack realizing the danger running and taking the train/grabbing suzie is faster than suzie simply riding his train? Plus did you know on top all of this Suzie also has an insane LS advantage? I dont see how this is fair

As far as I'm aware Suisei hasn't been shown to fight skillfully. (I don't watch the show she comes from, so correct me if I'm wrong.) Jack hasn't been shown to be exactly on par with anyone like Puss in terms of fighting skill either, but he has lots of experience stealing magical items to the point where Puss was hesitant to steal from him, and Jack has been involved in combat scenarios that also involved Puss, so Suisei isn't going to be the character to outskill the other in this VS matchup.

Realizing danger and acting on it only takes a moment. The starting distance is set at only two meters, and with Jack's size, all he'd need to do is step forward and reach for the cardboard box. If Suisei would try taking it back at the same time, the cardboard would probably tear.

 

[ShionAH]

As far as I'm aware Suisei hasn't been shown to fight skillfully. (I don't watch the show she comes from, so correct me if I'm wrong.) Jack hasn't been shown to be exactly on par with anyone like Puss in terms of fighting skill either, but he has lots of experience stealing magical items to the point where Puss was hesitant to steal from him, and Jack has been involved in combat scenarios that also involved Puss, so Suisei isn't going to be the character to outskill the other in this VS matchup.

Realizing danger and acting on it only takes a moment. The starting distance is set at only two meters, and with Jack's size, all he'd need to do is step forward and reach for the cardboard box. If Suisei would try taking it back at the same time, the cardboard would probably tear.

Right now we dont even know if she can use it as a KE or a knockback weapon. We even asked @GoldenScorpions and even they have no idea how it will work, she never does KE IC but I dont know how we apply it in matters like this

 

[ShionAH]

In this fight Susie was bloodlusted but no one argued KE. She lost

Basically either we assume she can use KE and her matches are messed up or we assume she doesnt use KE

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Right now we dont even know if she can use it as a KE or a knockback weapon. We even asked @GoldenScorpions and even they have no idea how it will work, she never does KE IC but I dont know how we apply it in matters like this

We probably shouldn't apply kinetic energy, but speed is still speed. I know speed as being capable of launching things when it doesn't destroy what it's being used on.

 

[ShionAH]

We probably shouldn't apply kinetic energy, but speed is still speed. I know speed as being capable of launching things when it doesn't destroy what it's being used on.

How speed help when the rider cannot react to it and has no way to attack or control it though

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

How speed help when the rider cannot react to it and has no way to attack or control it though

The rider can move forward, like she has been shown to be capable of doing.

 

[ShionAH]

The rider can move forward, like she has been shown to be capable of doing.

She literally just sits on it if she does movement that would give her reaction or perception speed

 

[ShionAH]

Wait I just watched the scene doesnt she use her legs to do it? Wouldnt that give her speed in base stats?

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Wait I just watched the scene doesnt she use her legs to do it? Wouldnt that give her speed in base stats?

Suisei did, in fact, use her legs. Whether or not it applies to her base stats is beyond this thread; I'm using what's currently applied to her profile, not what could be applied to her profile in the future.

 

[ShionAH]

Suisei did, in fact, use her legs.

Then why do we assume this random cardboard gave her a million speed amp?

Whether or not it applies to her base stats is beyond this thread; I'm using what's currently applied to her profile, not what could be applied to her profile in the future.

Whats currently applied in the profile means she cannot use it to KE or blitz Jack since she is practically useless whem on it

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Then why do we assume this random cardboard gave her a million speed amp?

I don't know. I don't watch the show that Suisei comes from. My guess is that it's because the feat would be an outlier for Suisei normally, and since the cardboard is a train, it represented an implication of being faster than Suisei and granting her that speed, since trains are known for being fast, and either way Suisei and the cardboard train moving at relativistic+ speed defied science, so it was better to apply the super capabilities to the cardboard train than to neither of them. If you want to know the true answer, then you should ask someone who actually watches the show.

Whats currently applied in the profile means she cannot use it to KE or blitz Jack since she is practically useless whem on it

I think she can launch Jack out of the battle using the relativistic+ speed that's currently applied to her profile, in the form of running with a cardboard train. When a character has speed, I'm pretty sure it doesn't need to be clarified that they could potentially use that speed for launching purposes, even if they haven't used it for that purpose before. Suisei probably wouldn't normally do so, but this VS scenario has her bloodlusted, so it doesn't matter.