The hunter fights an idol

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Suisei hoshimachi

Hunter

Rules:

Speed equalized

No knowledge of each other

Battle takes place in a warehouse

First key hunter is used

They start 30ft apart out of sight

Hunter has his shotgun for optional equipment

Suisei has her sushi for optional equipment

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Where is Hunter's 9-A rating coming from? The Remington gun, the T-rex's kinetic energy, the energy of real life T-rexs, and the grenades the T-rex can tank, none of them are 9-A. They cap at 9-B. Is there an error, or am I missing something?

Anyway, Hunter's supply ship is irrelevant because they're inside a warehouse. He's got his shotgun, pistol, and his animal sound imitation, so he has range on his side.
Any hit from Suisei, either from her weapons or her superior LS, defeats Hunter, not to mention the BFR. Because of the location, her ability to shrink would be valuable. (I don't know why you include Suisei's sushi, it's not a combat ability. It's not something that can realistically be used in battle.)
They are equalized to Superhuman reactions, but Suisei retains her faster movement speed.

I'm leaning towards Suisei

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Where is Hunter's 9-A rating coming from? The Remington gun, the T-rex's kinetic energy, the energy of real life T-rexs, and the grenades the T-rex can tank, none of them are 9-A. They cap at 9-B. Is there an error, or am I missing something?

Anyway, Hunter's supply ship is irrelevant because they're inside a warehouse. He's got his shotgun, pistol, and his animal sound imitation, so he has range on his side.
Any hit from Suisei, either from her weapons or her superior LS, defeats Hunter, not to mention the BFR. Because of the location, her ability to shrink would be valuable. (I don't know why you include Suisei's sushi, it's not a combat ability. It's not something that can realistically be used in battle.)
They are equalized to Superhuman reactions, but Suisei retains her faster movement speed.

I'm leaning towards Suisei

The 9-A comes from the fact his guns can kill the T-Rex who upscales from ceolophysis who did this

Coelophysis destroys a bridge (Carnivores)

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

35.69 MegaJoules

 

[GoldenScorpions]

It's really not optimal to need to go through 3 links to get to the relevant feat. Hunter should have the feat linked to his profile, too.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

So they essentially one-shot each other.
I think that, specifically because of the location, Hunter's range advantage isn't as important as it would be otherwise. It's still good, but all the materials, containers and items stocked inside the warehouse makes cover far easier. Suisei's faster movement and shrinking should give ample opportunity to get close to Hunter.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Where is Hunter's 9-A rating coming from? The Remington gun, the T-rex's kinetic energy, the energy of real life T-rexs, and the grenades the T-rex can tank, none of them are 9-A. They cap at 9-B. Is there an error, or am I missing something?

Anyway, Hunter's supply ship is irrelevant because they're inside a warehouse. He's got his shotgun, pistol, and his animal sound imitation, so he has range on his side.
Any hit from Suisei, either from her weapons or her superior LS, defeats Hunter, not to mention the BFR. Because of the location, her ability to shrink would be valuable. (I don't know why you include Suisei's sushi, it's not a combat ability. It's not something that can realistically be used in battle.)
They are equalized to Superhuman reactions, but Suisei retains her faster movement speed.

I'm leaning towards Suisei

Btw that in tons of tnt is

So they essentially one-shot each other.
I think that, specifically because of the location, Hunter's range advantage isn't as important as it would be otherwise. It's still good, but all the materials, containers and items stocked inside the warehouse makes cover far easier. Suisei's faster movement and shrinking should give ample opportunity to get close to Hunter.

So are you voting for suisei?

 

[AThe1412]

Is shrinking and sneaking up on people an in character move for Susie?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

So they essentially one-shot each other.
I think that, specifically because of the location, Hunter's range advantage isn't as important as it would be otherwise. It's still good, but all the materials, containers and items stocked inside the warehouse makes cover far easier. Suisei's faster movement and shrinking should give ample opportunity to get close to Hunter.

Yeah is the shrinking in-character?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Bump

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Bump

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

They are equalized to Superhuman reactions, but Suisei retains her faster movement speed.

Speed Equalization Rules and Assumptions make it so the combat speed of the faster character is decreased to be equal to the combat speed of the slower character, and the other types of speed of the faster character gets reduced by the same amount of times. What is Suisei's combat speed? Her profile only has her own movement speed and the speed of her cardboard train.

It's really not optimal to need to go through 3 links to get to the relevant feat. Hunter should have the feat linked to his profile, too.

I had brought this up in a different versus thread because I also found the Hunter's attack potency justification a bit odd, so that makes two people.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Where is Hunter's 9-A rating coming from? The Remington gun, the T-rex's kinetic energy, the energy of real life T-rexs, and the grenades the T-rex can tank, none of them are 9-A. They cap at 9-B. Is there an error, or am I missing something?

Anyway, Hunter's supply ship is irrelevant because they're inside a warehouse. He's got his shotgun, pistol, and his animal sound imitation, so he has range on his side.
Any hit from Suisei, either from her weapons or her superior LS, defeats Hunter, not to mention the BFR. Because of the location, her ability to shrink would be valuable. (I don't know why you include Suisei's sushi, it's not a combat ability. It's not something that can realistically be used in battle.)
They are equalized to Superhuman reactions, but Suisei retains her faster movement speed.

So they essentially one-shot each other.
I think that, specifically because of the location, Hunter's range advantage isn't as important as it would be otherwise. It's still good, but all the materials, containers and items stocked inside the warehouse makes cover far easier. Suisei's faster movement and shrinking should give ample opportunity to get close to Hunter.

I vote for Suisei winning the battle for the quoted reasons, aside from what is mentioned about speed because I would like that to be clarified.

 

[AThe1412]

I vote for Suisei winning the battle for the quoted reasons, aside from what is mentioned about speed because I would like that to be clarified.

From what I have seen on other threads, Suisei just confronts her opponent head on. Her first move isn't gonna be shrinking to sneak up on people.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

From what I have seen on other threads, Suisei just confronts her opponent head on. Her first move isn't gonna be shrinking to sneak up on people.

I don't know how accurate those other threads are. Was it something like a member who knows about Holo no Graffiti attesting that this is how Suisei fights?

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Holo no Graffiti is a gag series, and because of that, it's hard to determine a fighting style or standard tactics for its characters, Suisei included. Beyond that she quickly gets violent and uses her many weapons to smack people, there isn't a specific method.
Likely for that same reason of gag series, combat speed isn't known.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

So Susei wins here?

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

So Susei wins here?

I'm not sure. I switch my vote to the match-up being inconclusive instead of Suisei winning.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Bump

 

[AThe1412]

Well, since Suisei doesn't seem to start her fights with shrinking, I think the Hunter just shoots her on sight and win. Even if she does shrink, he can probably still hear the sound of her chainsaw as she's moving towards him.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Well, since Suisei doesn't seem to start her fights with shrinking, I think the Hunter just shoots her on sight and win. Even if she does shrink, he can probably still hear the sound of her chainsaw as she's moving towards him.

Does she still manage to hit him sometimes on occasion?

 

[AThe1412]

Does she still manage to hit him sometimes on occasion?

I mean, he probably wouldn't expect a tiny little person sneaking up on him without prior knowledge so yeah. This is also assuming that she goes for the chainsaw (which is the weapon she most likely starts with from what I have seen on previous matches) when she also has a flail, a polearm, and a nailed bat.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

So 1 vote for the hunter?

 

[AThe1412]

So 1 vote for the hunter?

Ye.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I vote hunter fra

 

[GoldenScorpions]

I would argue that, against a gunner, shrinking is more likely to happen in order to effectively close the distance between them.
There's also nothing that indicates Suisei would use the chainsaw more often than other weapons.

 

[AThe1412]

I would argue that, against a gunner, shrinking is more likely to happen in order to effectively close the distance between them.
There's also nothing that indicates Suisei would use the chainsaw more often than other weapons.

1. Susie wouldn't know that she's fighting a gunman until she sees the Hunter. That requires prior knowledge.
2. Wouldn't shrinking actually make it harder to close the distance because, well, she's smaller so she'll have to cover more distance?
3. She's associated with chainsaws and axes more than any other weapon.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Here's my detailed take.

The two of them start without seeing the other. Much of the fight's outcome lies in who sees the other first. If Hunter sees her first, he shoots and hits. If Suisei sees him first, she charges in no time and smacks him.
It's in the scenario if they see each other at the same time, where the result lies.

• Hunter's shotgun is a pump action shotgun, which requires a slide movement between each shot. If the first bullet hits Suisei, it's over. If it misses, there's trouble, because Suisei's fast movement would allow her to reach Hunter before he can slide again. That's without taking into account aiming, which would take a couple extra deciseconds. Suisei's options are:
  • Suisei charges. In this scenario, Hunter has a better chance to hit, because of the closing distance. However, while Suisei is violent, she's not reckless. Running towards a gunner isn't a smart move.
  • Suisei shrinks on the spot. This scenario guarantees a miss of the first shot, but then things are up in the air. Suisei would likely have to turn back to normal size to reach max speed. The positive for Suisei is that she gains a free couple deciseconds + likely a couple extra ones due to Hunter's surprise. The negative for Suisei is that she's revealed her shrinking, so Hunter now knows she can do that, and she likely can't reach max speed while shrunk. If Suisei decides to attack and fails to capitalize on this precious time gained, Hunter is likely to recover on time, but if she does, then she has the upper hand. After shrinking, she can also retreat instead of attempting a charge, which would reset the encounter, but with the knowledge of the gun: cover is more valuable to Suisei than Hunter, so its existence is to her benefit.
  • Suisei tries to dodge. Because of the environment, stepping back out of view/behind the cover she just came from would be the most likely dodging option. This scenario greatly reduces the chance of the shotgun shell hitting Suisei. Afterwards, it would turn into a game of carefully chasing each other amidst the warehouse's covers. Here, the shrinking hasn't been revealed, so Hunter still doesn't know, which is a big plus for her. Against a gunner, using this ability would be a smart move, to hide and approach stealthily.

That's mainly in the scenario if they see each other while at 30ft apart. While they start 30ft apart, nothing guarantees they will see each other at 30ft apart. If they happen to see each other at closer range within reach of Suisei's weapons, it's to Suisei's advantage. And if they happen to see each other at a further distance than 30ft, the same options I described apply.

Finally, while more minor, Suisei's LS can be useful, specifically due to the environment. The option to toss containers and large boxes is there.

Taking all that into account, and based on the circumstances of the fight, location, equipment, weapons, and options available to each, I'm leaning towards Suisei having a higher chance on average.



PS : Genuine question: where's the idea Suisei's more associated with chainsaws coming from? If we go purely by number of appearances per weapon Suisei has used in HoloGra, her halberd/axe has the most.

 

[AThe1412]

Here's my detailed take.

The two of them start without seeing the other. Much of the fight's outcome lies in who sees the other first. If Hunter sees her first, he shoots and hits. If Suisei sees him first, she charges in no time and smacks him.
It's in the scenario if they see each other at the same time, where the result lies.

• Hunter's shotgun is a pump action shotgun, which requires a slide movement between each shot. If the first bullet hits Suisei, it's over. If it misses, there's trouble, because Suisei's fast movement would allow her to reach Hunter before he can slide again. That's without taking into account aiming, which would take a couple extra deciseconds. Suisei's options are:
  • Suisei charges. In this scenario, Hunter has a better chance to hit, because of the closing distance. However, while Suisei is violent, she's not reckless. Running towards a gunner isn't a smart move.
  • Suisei shrinks on the spot. This scenario guarantees a miss of the first shot, but then things are up in the air. Suisei would likely have to turn back to normal size to reach max speed. The positive for Suisei is that she gains a free couple deciseconds + likely a couple extra ones due to Hunter's surprise. The negative for Suisei is that she's revealed her shrinking, so Hunter now knows she can do that, and she likely can't reach max speed while shrunk. If Suisei decides to attack and fails to capitalize on this precious time gained, Hunter is likely to recover on time, but if she does, then she has the upper hand. After shrinking, she can also retreat instead of attempting a charge, which would reset the encounter, but with the knowledge of the gun: cover is more valuable to Suisei than Hunter, so its existence is to her benefit.
  • Suisei tries to dodge. Because of the environment, stepping back out of view/behind the cover she just came from would be the most likely dodging option. This scenario greatly reduces the chance of the shotgun shell hitting Suisei. Afterwards, it would turn into a game of carefully chasing each other amidst the warehouse's covers. Here, the shrinking hasn't been revealed, so Hunter still doesn't know, which is a big plus for her. Against a gunner, using this ability would be a smart move, to hide and approach stealthily.

That's mainly in the scenario if they see each other while at 30ft apart. While they start 30ft apart, nothing guarantees they will see each other at 30ft apart. If they happen to see each other at closer range within reach of Suisei's weapons, it's to Suisei's advantage. And if they happen to see each other at a further distance than 30ft, the same options I described apply.

Finally, while more minor, Suisei's LS can be useful, specifically due to the environment. The option to toss containers and large boxes is there.

Taking all that into account, and based on the circumstances of the fight, location, equipment, weapons, and options available to each, I'm leaning towards Suisei having a higher chance on average.



PS : Genuine question: where's the idea Suisei's more associated with chainsaws coming from? If we go purely by number of appearances per weapon Suisei has used in HoloGra, her halberd/axe has the most.

Would she go for stealth in character though, especially since she doesn't even have stealth mastery on her profile? I also fail to see how she can avoid a shotgun blast from a skilled marksman at close range and wouldn't shrinking in an attempt to dodge it actually be more dangerous for her because a shotgun shell contains hundreds of pellets and they'll be massive relative to her smaller size? Hunter can just shoot through cover. His guns have more than enough AP and penetration to go through anything she hides behind and he can dodge things that are thrown at him more easily than she can dodge bullets.
About the chainsaw association, I assume that we're also using content outside of Hologra because her intelligence section uses feats from both Hologra and her channel's content (an example is being able to hold her own for a solid 5 minutes against the world's 2nd best Tetris player).

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Here's my detailed take.

The two of them start without seeing the other. Much of the fight's outcome lies in who sees the other first. If Hunter sees her first, he shoots and hits. If Suisei sees him first, she charges in no time and smacks him.
It's in the scenario if they see each other at the same time, where the result lies.

• Hunter's shotgun is a pump action shotgun, which requires a slide movement between each shot. If the first bullet hits Suisei, it's over. If it misses, there's trouble, because Suisei's fast movement would allow her to reach Hunter before he can slide again. That's without taking into account aiming, which would take a couple extra deciseconds. Suisei's options are:
  • Suisei charges. In this scenario, Hunter has a better chance to hit, because of the closing distance. However, while Suisei is violent, she's not reckless. Running towards a gunner isn't a smart move.
  • Suisei shrinks on the spot. This scenario guarantees a miss of the first shot, but then things are up in the air. Suisei would likely have to turn back to normal size to reach max speed. The positive for Suisei is that she gains a free couple deciseconds + likely a couple extra ones due to Hunter's surprise. The negative for Suisei is that she's revealed her shrinking, so Hunter now knows she can do that, and she likely can't reach max speed while shrunk. If Suisei decides to attack and fails to capitalize on this precious time gained, Hunter is likely to recover on time, but if she does, then she has the upper hand. After shrinking, she can also retreat instead of attempting a charge, which would reset the encounter, but with the knowledge of the gun: cover is more valuable to Suisei than Hunter, so its existence is to her benefit.
  • Suisei tries to dodge. Because of the environment, stepping back out of view/behind the cover she just came from would be the most likely dodging option. This scenario greatly reduces the chance of the shotgun shell hitting Suisei. Afterwards, it would turn into a game of carefully chasing each other amidst the warehouse's covers. Here, the shrinking hasn't been revealed, so Hunter still doesn't know, which is a big plus for her. Against a gunner, using this ability would be a smart move, to hide and approach stealthily.

That's mainly in the scenario if they see each other while at 30ft apart. While they start 30ft apart, nothing guarantees they will see each other at 30ft apart. If they happen to see each other at closer range within reach of Suisei's weapons, it's to Suisei's advantage. And if they happen to see each other at a further distance than 30ft, the same options I described apply.

Finally, while more minor, Suisei's LS can be useful, specifically due to the environment. The option to toss containers and large boxes is there.

Taking all that into account, and based on the circumstances of the fight, location, equipment, weapons, and options available to each, I'm leaning towards Suisei having a higher chance on average.



PS : Genuine question: where's the idea Suisei's more associated with chainsaws coming from? If we go purely by number of appearances per weapon Suisei has used in HoloGra, her halberd/axe has the most.

Nice analysis. Though, are you sure equalizing the probability of the characters spotting each other is a good idea? What if one character is more likely to spot the other before the other has time to react, based on something like strategical skill, so the result of the match-up doesn't depend on a scenario where the two spot each other at the same time?

Would she go for stealth in character though, especially since she doesn't even have stealth mastery on her profile? I also fail to see how she can avoid a shotgun blast from a skilled marksman at close range and wouldn't shrinking in an attempt to dodge it actually be more dangerous for her because a shotgun shell contains hundreds of pellets and they'll be massive relative to her smaller size? Hunter can just shoot through cover. His guns have more than enough AP and penetration to go through anything she hides behind and he can dodge things that are thrown at him more easily than she can dodge bullets.

Good point about the Hunter being able to break cover and having accuracy. However, even though Suisei doesn't have stealth mastery, she still may attempt stealth anyway. A character doesn't have to have mastery over something to attempt it, and a warehouse seems like a good location to attempt sneaking in.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Would she go for stealth in character though, especially since she doesn't even have stealth mastery on her profile?

As James said, you can attempt to stealth even without being a master at it, just like any other skill. In a warehouse, it's a prime location to do that, even more against a ranged opponent. There is one scene where Suisei managed to sneak up behind another character and attack her with her halberd. I'm not sure it counts as "mastery", but it's there.

I also fail to see how she can avoid a shotgun blast from a skilled marksman at close range and wouldn't shrinking in an attempt to dodge it actually be more dangerous for her because a shotgun shell contains hundreds of pellets and they'll be massive relative to her smaller size?

I see what you mean, but shrinking to as small as an insect makes it harder to aim precisely, and would be shocking to see another human do. If Suisei shrinks before Hunter shoots, there's a time of surprise recovery that gives a few moments to Suisei, with the downside that Hunter now knows this ability and won't take him by surprise again. If she shrinks as Hunter pulls the trigger, she will most likely avoid that first shot as the pellets fly over her, and the time for a cartridge slide is added to the shock recovery time. Obviously, once Hunter knows she can shrink, he can re-aim accordingly, taking the new knowledge into account, and his skill is more than enough that he's likely to hit the next one. That's why I mentioned the pros and cons, and that if Suisei fails to capitalize on those few moments to either retreat or charge, it won't end well for her.

Hunter can just shoot through cover. His guns have more than enough AP and penetration to go through anything she hides behind and he can dodge things that are thrown at him more easily than she can dodge bullets.

That's fair, I hadn't thought of that. With 9-A bullets, she can crush whatever she shoots at. So even behind cover, Suisei needs to be careful, but Hunter still wouldn't know where Suisei is behind the cover, so there's a lack of accuracy.

her intelligence section uses feats from both Hologra and her channel's content (an example is being able to hold her own for a solid 5 minutes against the world's 2nd best Tetris player)

Ah, I see. Good point, thank you for pointing it out. Because these profiles are supposed to be purely HoloGra+official lore, and nothing else, the Tetris and music programs lines shouldn't be there, my bad. The rest happens in HoloGra.

are you sure equalizing the probability of the characters spotting each other is a good idea? What if one character is more likely to spot the other before the other has time to react, based on something like strategical skill, so the result of the match-up doesn't depend on a scenario where the two spot each other at the same time?

I don't think one has a better chance over the other. Neither has enhanced senses at base, Hunter doesn't have the radar, and in a closed environment with cover everywhere, the binoculars don't help.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

As James said, you can attempt to stealth even without being a master at it, just like any other skill. In a warehouse, it's a prime location to do that, even more against a ranged opponent. There is one scene where Suisei managed to sneak up behind another character and attack her with her halberd. I'm not sure it counts as "mastery", but it's there.

I see what you mean, but shrinking to as small as an insect makes it harder to aim precisely, and would be shocking to see another human do. If Suisei shrinks before Hunter shoots, there's a time of surprise recovery that gives a few moments to Suisei, with the downside that Hunter now knows this ability and won't take him by surprise again. If she shrinks as Hunter pulls the trigger, she will most likely avoid that first shot as the pellets fly over her, and the time for a cartridge slide is added to the shock recovery time. Obviously, once Hunter knows she can shrink, he can re-aim accordingly, taking the new knowledge into account, and his skill is more than enough that he's likely to hit the next one. That's why I mentioned the pros and cons, and that if Suisei fails to capitalize on those few moments to either retreat or charge, it won't end well for her.

That's fair, I hadn't thought of that. With 9-A bullets, she can crush whatever she shoots at. So even behind cover, Suisei needs to be careful, but Hunter still wouldn't know where Suisei is behind the cover, so there's a lack of accuracy.

Ah, I see. Good point, thank you for pointing it out. Because these profiles are supposed to be purely HoloGra+official lore, and nothing else, the Tetris and music programs lines shouldn't be there, my bad. The rest happens in HoloGra.

I don't think one has a better chance over the other. Neither has enhanced senses at base, Hunter doesn't have the radar, and in a closed environment with cover everywhere, the binoculars don't help.

So are you voting for incon I mean?

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Following.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Suisei FRA

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Alright. I think the battle would be close, but I vote for Suisei winning based on the analysis by GoldenScorpions.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Girl assaults man FRA

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Bump

 

[Kroneii1]

I think suisei can oneshot but idk if she can dodge the shotgun

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Bump

 

[GoldenScorpions]

So are you voting for incon I mean?

I'm voting Suisei. I felt it was clear.