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Sorry my mistake.....i vote her
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Suisei fights herself (hoshimachi suisei vs ditto)
- Thread starter Artorimachi_Meteoraft
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #42
4-5 votes (suisei vs ditto)
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- Thread starter
- #43
Actually
6 votes for suisei and 5 votes for ditto
6 votes for suisei and 5 votes for ditto
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- Thread starter
- #44
I should let you know that both combatants have no knowledge of each other
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Ditto copy everythings not consider to be alway better than original in the game or series
otherwises peoples will only catch ditto in the whole series by now.
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- Thread starter
- #46
I was basically trying to say suisei would have no knowledge of the ditto
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- #47
Since both combatants do not have knowledge of each other
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- #48
So are you going to vote for ditto too?
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that would be a long fight because both will not attack each other yet.
start with stamina alone.
Suisei Ditto got 1 typoon tornado and go back to ditto form & knockout while real suisei can took 3 Tornado with no damage.
Int
Suisei should had more int than her copy by default (Copy still a copy)
AP & Durability
Original still win
Ability to create Human sushi not possible for Ditto to copy.
it would be a very long episodes before they try to fight (Worst than dragonball)
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The combatants are hostile by default.
While Suisei's Stamina is impressive:
Stamina: Superhuman. Suisei was in top form even after running hundreds of thousands of kilometers[4], or running away from Miko across cities, forests and beaches[3]. She was unfazed and unhurt from getting caught in multiple typhoons or spending an entire day on deserted islands without rest[6]
Ditto's isn't that bad either:
Stamina: Superhuman (The average pokemon is hardwired for battle and can go on fighting for lots of time despite being injured. Capable of spending a day on foot while fighting hordes of enemies in mystery dungeons with little to no breaks. Can swim between islands and continents with no breaks)
Both can supposedly go an entire day in unfamiliar territory, although, I assume a Mystery Dungeon features more hostiles or inhospitable territory than most deserted islands.
Making typhoons, whirlwinds, etc. is something most Pokemon can do.
Pidgey can use Gust, Dratini can use Twister, several Pokemon can learn Hurricane, etc.
& if Ditto's copying Suisei's form/durability, it's just as durable as her.
& I'm skeptical it has THREE TIMES less Stamina than her, if it is lesser in Stamina.
(Plus, IIRC, surviving a tornado is possible for a real world human.)
& also if Ditto was conscious enough to fight & reverted to its base form, it'd tier stomp her. Untransformed Ditto would scale above Baby Pokemon like Pichu, which are 8-C to Suisei's "At least 9-B"; It's just that Ditto's first move is almost always to Transform, either automatically via the Impostor ability or manually using the move Transform.
Ditto only doesn't Transform if it can't (Ex: The move Transform is disabled.) & has to use Struggle. (In Mystery Dungeon games, Pokemon can also use a "basic attack".)
Suisei probably is smarter in many respects, but I'd bet the Pokemon has more combat experience than the girl the profile creator says has no combat experience. Not to mention I went over how a lot of Suisei's intelligence aside from like, maybe bluffing & such isn't helpful herE.
What? Ditto would've copied her Attack Potency, Striking Strength & Durability; They'd be equal.
Pokemon can copy cutting moves, Transformed Ditto included; Copying known moves is an in-universe part of what Ditto did.
But whether it did or not, why would Suisei's instinct in combat against another Suisei be "Try to chop them into sushi"?
Her most prominent weapons are a chainsaw & a flail. You don't make sushi with either of those!
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Are you going to change your vote?
Peppersalt43
They/Them- 23,817
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Ditto finally gets a W FRA
Jamesthetaker
He/Him- 6,754
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All right now we can enter grace period again
8 ditto to 5 suisei
grace
8 ditto to 5 suisei
grace
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She can create sushi for others to eat and they become Human sushi (Not Chop)
Go check her profile again
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would she in character try to do that though and not use you weapons to fight
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Let me tell you this....Ditto in anime had no chance to fight suisei
but the reason it win because game lore or some game logic stuff outside of anime series.
Holografiti consider animation serie so there a limitation here compare to those pokemon game logic.
No way in hell! Ditto in anime would took tornado like suisei. (In plot sense)
Ditto copy suisei still knockout from 1 tornado.
If ditto was that good in anime all pokemon trainers would use Only dittto in tournament by now.
If copy ability was that OP.
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She will not fight her copy and maybe let the copy of her to eat her sushi.
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that assumes Ditto is OP compared to other similar pokemon of it's level in the Anime but is it really tbh
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By turning other people into sushi.
By feeding them sushi.
Her Standard Equipment doesn't include sushi, & she doesn't have an Optional Equipment section (?!?) at all. For some reason.
It was shown in the anime that Ditto copies its opponent's moves when Narissa's Ditto Transformed into Ash's Infernape, & looked up the moves her Ditto knew while transformed into Ash's Infernape.
Just because 1 series is animation & 1 series is a video game doesn't mean how characters function necessarily change. Characters work how they are shown in their own media, & their functionality does not necessarily conform based on the medium the match's other participants come from.
Also, Verse Equalization &/or Reality Equalization may be a relevant matter in these circumstances.
Different from Reality Equalization linked above, Verse Equalization is detailed in Standard Battle Assumptions:
Verse equalization: Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen.
Furthermore, attacks that require a special type of energy to be effective, like anti-magic requiring magic, will be assumed to work against the energies of different Verses, as long as they are somehow similar and the mechanics are somehow compatible with the known mechanics behind the energies from different Verses. For example, mind control resistance by being a capable mind user would also work against other Verses, but mind control resistance through a strong will would not necessarily work against mind control from other Verses. It is also important to note that characters won't lose or gain any abilities or resistances which they do or do not inherently possess. However, if an ability has a weakness, condition, caveat, or limitation, consistently shown throughout its use (such as not working on characters under a specific condition, like energy gap) or stated by a valid and uncontradicted statement, then it should be applicable after the equalization.
Equalization works highly on a case-by-case basis, so many relevant cases should be discussed in the versus thread itself.
Furthermore, attacks that require a special type of energy to be effective, like anti-magic requiring magic, will be assumed to work against the energies of different Verses, as long as they are somehow similar and the mechanics are somehow compatible with the known mechanics behind the energies from different Verses. For example, mind control resistance by being a capable mind user would also work against other Verses, but mind control resistance through a strong will would not necessarily work against mind control from other Verses. It is also important to note that characters won't lose or gain any abilities or resistances which they do or do not inherently possess. However, if an ability has a weakness, condition, caveat, or limitation, consistently shown throughout its use (such as not working on characters under a specific condition, like energy gap) or stated by a valid and uncontradicted statement, then it should be applicable after the equalization.
Equalization works highly on a case-by-case basis, so many relevant cases should be discussed in the versus thread itself.
What?
Are you saying to assume Ditto is weaker than even 1st Stage or Baby Pokemon??
Such would contradict our standards, & in fact, there's something on Ditto's profile that's been there a while for a reason that you should probably read:
- While inside the game it can transform into any Pokémon and copy exactly the stats, powers, attacks and appearance except the HP of the opponent, it is argued that Ditto rarely transforms into an opponent weaker than itself in combat. It is suggested that thread starters state the starting level/tier of Ditto. For reference, the current tier of Pikachu (one of the most notable starter Pokémon) is at most Low 7-B. If the thread starter wishes to set the floor tier of Ditto, he should state that in the starting thread and Pikachu will be the floor tier. However, the ceiling tier of Ditto should limit to the tier of Mew is 5-B.
Except Ditto has been used by trainers.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/EP111 There, an Orange Island's Gym Leader who used a Ditto, & it performed well against Ash's Ditto, being able to match Pikachu's attacks & harm it.
Unfair-Weather Friends
As I already mentioned, Narissa's Ditto were capable of taking on Ash's Infernape & Pikachu.
Narissa's Ditto Two (She nicknamed her Ditto "Ditto 1" & "Ditto 2". I wish I was making that up.), after Transforming into Ash's Infernape, used Flame Wheel & Mach Punch when Ash's Infernape did, & briefly seemed evenly matched, but was sent flying back by the Mach Punch clash & knocked out. However, this could be because Narissa is a demonstratably poor trainer:
When Narissa uses Ditto 2 against Ash's Pikachu She used it with notably poor tactics. Quote Bulbapedia:
"Narissa isn't sure what Pokémon her Ditto One should transform into. She sees Dawn's Piplup and tells Ditto One to transform into Piplup. Dawn expresses her concern since Water types are weak against Electric types. Narissa exclaims that she knows what she's doing. Ash's Pikachu uses Thunderbolt and hits Ditto One straight on. Narissa realizes her mistake and tells Ditto One to transform into Pikachu. After using her Pokédex to determine what moves Ash's Pikachu knows, Narissa tells Ditto One to use Iron Tail, but once more Dawn questions her choice as Steel-type moves aren't effective against Electric types. Ash's Pikachu easily brushes away Ditto's Iron Tail. Ash orders Pikachu to use Quick Attack while Narissa counters with Volt Tackle. Dawn once more tells Narissa that Volt Tackle is a move that will cause recoil damage. The two Pikachu collide and an explosion occurs. Ash's Pikachu lands on its feet with a smooth somersault while Ditto One is thrown back and revealed to be unconscious. As a result, Ash wins the battle two-to-zero."
For her Ditto 2 copying Ash's Infernape, it could be Narissa trained Ditto 2 worse in Stamina or such, but for Pikachu, she made mistakes so blatantly Dawn was calling her out & stuff like this is the whole reason they helped her train to get better during the rest of the episode.
So there are trainers who have trained Ditto for use in battle, to some success, but a trainer's skill is as much a factor as a Pokemon's skill. Not to mention, fictional characters aren't always perfectly reasonable, not always making perfect decisions. Not everyone in the Pokemon world wants to own or even use a Ditto, & some don't have access to the species at all.
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Ditto in anime dont had Tornado feat.
If Typoon Tornado happen in anime Ditto would pass out.
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We scale Pokemon largely based on a combination evolutionary stages; Not every 1st or 2nd stage Pokemon species has feats of its own.
Ditto is capable of surviving as well as taking damage from other Pokemon, so it shouldn't be much weaker than other Pokemon when untransformed.
Most Pokemon can survive being a hit by a torando.
& again, just because Suisei is an animation character doesn't mean Ditto's non-anime is irrelevant.
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Did you saw Typhoon tornado that Suisei took?
it not small like Pokemon moves
Imagine Trainers fight each other and use Typoon that big that would be too dangerous for peoples around that area.
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While inside the game it can transform into any Pokémon and copy exactly the stats, powers, attacks and appearance except the HP of the opponent
Assume both had same stat and same move clash each other.
- Transform: Ditto transforms into the opponent, copying their stats, powers, attacks and appearance.
- Impostor: A rare ability Dittos possess. They will automatically take the opponent's form and powers, much like Transform.
- Limber: An ability possessed by most Dittos. It prevents them from being paralyzed.
and we assume that it low 7-B with durability but still dont have attack move.
except it use 1 struggle on suisei and end the fight (low 7 B struggle)
Ditto HP of low 7-B copy suisei everything except her HP
Ok fine Kind of agree with all of this. Ditto win then.
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Here are some scans of the move Twister being used by Pokemon:
Twister, by Christopher's Kingdra:
One
Two
Clair's Dragonair, which had just evolved minutes ago, using Twister
Used by a wild Drampa:
https://www.filb.de/anime/sm/059/image/MTtbeEEEq5HtGCnZKjLgb6ynDICqnA--
It'd take me a while, but I can get a lot more examples.
Twister (move)
Gust (move)
Hurricane (move)
Also, there's been several instances where such moves have been used indoors, especially in Gyms, Contest Halls, etc.
Here's the one the video linked on Suisei's profile featured.
From what can be seen, it's probably around at least 8 meters high. Not THAT huge, especially since IRL tornadoes go MUCH higher.
Plus, if we're talking weather manipulation, there are Pokemon with actual weather manipulation feats, of like, summoning storms, parting clouds, etc
Alakazam moves some clouds - redone
vsbattles.fandom.com
Do you need me to find Pokemon doing larger? I'd be confident I can.
Ditto copying Suisei probably wouldn't be using Struggle, since it'd be using Suisei's moves, but yes, a 7-B, even weakly hitting a 9-B, would almost one certainly one shot them.
Also, IF Pokemon Mystery Dungeon's mechanic of every Pokemon being able ot use a "basic attack"/"regular attack" are accounted for, it MAY have an option besides Struggle, if it can't be Transformed into Suisei. But the legimitacy of said Basic/Regular Attack is debatable, despite that it seems analogous to Struggle, being just a very non-distinct, short range melee charging/tackling attack, like a body blow.
Move
Mystery Dungeon game mechanics
Regardless, Ditto as Suisei should be just as durable as she is, & given the scaling & such, & scans I've found, I'd be confident other Pokemon, many of them not even Legendaries, have performed or survived more devastating tornadoes or such than the twister she survived.
Also, it may be worthwhile to get Suisei & company surviving such typhoons calculated.
Anyway, I appreciate that were able to come to some form of understanding on this matter, & that I've been able to make my position clear, even if you don't entirely agree with my reasoning. Opposing stances are an important part of a good, constructive debate. No offense meant.
Hopefully I haven't been a bother.
Thanks for debating!
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To Be honest.....took just 1 struggle move from Low 7 B ditto and Knock out was funny enough (clear winner)
good debate.
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(I mean, Ditto un-Transforming & being unable to re-Transform seems unlikely, IMHO, but fair enough.)
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It call Out of PP point or somethings as 10 million Lions worshiper use that stupid logic claim to beat all pokemons lol
Pure no limit fallacy gameplay but in lore sense maybe Ditto still need Stamina or eating like slime to use tranform ability like animals use energy
except Ditto dont need to eat however Struggle dont need energy and cause damge to enemy. (Low 7 B Struggle Pfffp!!!!)
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I know this thread is concluded, but it should be pointed out that Ditto can copy weapons such as Gurdurr's steel beam.
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it is b/c Ditto got 8 against Susies 5 and 3 vote difference once someone get's 7 votes is all you need to restart grace
KingNanaya
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amnesia?
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KingNanaya
He/Him- 3,074
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made the mistake lol
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