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uuuh VM was literally in the epicenter of one of his massive explosions when he first showed up and took no damage. I'm pretty sure the qualifies his durability scaling to his energy balls.
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STRONGEST One-Punch Man Discussion Thread!
- Thread starter Phoenks
- Start date
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That was a relatively weak explosion. It was calced at around 30 Kilotons some years ago. The one in the Gigaton range (bonus chapter) doesn't showcase if VM was in the epicenter or not.
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Why are you comparing VM to DBZ. I already stated durability scales to AP unless contradicted. Those are the wiki rules. However I do think his striking strength should be changed to unknownunknown as there is nothing to prove that.
How so? Even if he was a glass cannon, the fact that if VM had something that would make him stronger than CK despite the statement possibly saying otherwise is dumb.
Plus, I'm pretty sure they weren't being specific to only physicals
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Because VM's powers are ki-like based.
Besides, I remember some official translation saying he drew power from nature (I'm not referring to that "mother nature" claim from VM himself), so the energy balls might not be his own power, but rather the environment's.
Dude, it literally says "physical". How are energy balls involved here if you can't prove VM's dura scales to them (something he hasn't done with his greatest feat)?
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There's nothing to prove his energy balls are like ki tho. Ki has never been introduced in OPM
I'm pretty he doesn't draw power from nature, he was just created by nature.
As I state, his duratibility should automatically scale as it is not contradicted, this is literally placed on the durability page.
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Ok, if it's on the page let's just say it scales. Logically speaking, it shouldn't, you can not prove his dura scales to his energy balls because he hasn't done it with his strongest attack. It's like me tanking a 10% punch from Ngannou and saying my dura scales to his AP without even knowing if I could handle his 100% power.
Can someone confirm this? I believe there was a statement on reddit about VM drawing power from nature. Some months ago a user posted it here.
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He never has an ultimate attack of sorts tho
Imma check the manga later
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Which would make sense. The Hero Association is trying to hype up the s-class heroes, they don't have the same reasons to give monsters unnecessary credit.
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The hero association has no way of knowing about characters like Boros and Kabuto so it would make sense that their profiles are written more from an authorial perspective rather than the hero association trying to hype up their fighters.
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Not if the only thing they know about Carnage Kabuto is that he destroyed Genos. Sure they can hype him up to make it clear while Genos lost, but it would be better for PR if they never talked about the monsters that have wrecked heroes. It's not a good look when the s-class loses, that's discrediting the HA's finest and disillusioning people who think the s-class can protect them from anything
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Hero Association is copying information from Vs Battle Wiki.
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Don't care abut VM and all that stuff, but about the databook, I'm pretty sure all of the statements about Flashy Flash and such are from the Hero Association, unless I'm thinking of a different guide, which makes them already slightly questionable from the start, but they can't be from the HA about CK, because they don't even know he existed. Not to mention them knowing everything about Genus.
And also, this doesn't come off as a hyperbole statement. The guide stating that Atomic is a "demi-god" when angered is blatant hyperbole, and is meant to be viewed that way. It's the kind of statements used on characters purely for hype, and doesn't come off as something meant to be taken literally. Even the Flashy Flash being light speed statement very much comes off as intentional hyperbole. (Also he is still close to light speed anyways)
CK's statement in question is "on a physical level, he possesses abilities that are in an incomparably higher league than the monsters so far". That doesn't come off as hyperbole, that comes off a direct statement of his power.
What would be the statements I'm referring to is stuff like the book stating "Even powerful attacks are meaningless against Carnage Kabuto". And later saying "His cuticle is like an iron fortress". The point being that these are just ways to emphasize how durable he is through hyperbole or analogy, and are irrelevant as actual statements. More of this is seen in the databook's statement about his AP. "A single blow from his fist floored even Genos, who boasted armor of steel, as if he were glasswork".
And also, this doesn't come off as a hyperbole statement. The guide stating that Atomic is a "demi-god" when angered is blatant hyperbole, and is meant to be viewed that way. It's the kind of statements used on characters purely for hype, and doesn't come off as something meant to be taken literally. Even the Flashy Flash being light speed statement very much comes off as intentional hyperbole. (Also he is still close to light speed anyways)
CK's statement in question is "on a physical level, he possesses abilities that are in an incomparably higher league than the monsters so far". That doesn't come off as hyperbole, that comes off a direct statement of his power.
What would be the statements I'm referring to is stuff like the book stating "Even powerful attacks are meaningless against Carnage Kabuto". And later saying "His cuticle is like an iron fortress". The point being that these are just ways to emphasize how durable he is through hyperbole or analogy, and are irrelevant as actual statements. More of this is seen in the databook's statement about his AP. "A single blow from his fist floored even Genos, who boasted armor of steel, as if he were glasswork".
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Ah yeah so the Heroes are all done by the HA. Then yes I think CK's statement is totally accurate, as it was likely written from the viewpoint of an author, not from the HA, as that just doesn't make sense, on top of the other points I just made. I was skimming through the messages then came to the bottom cause people were only talking about VM, but I just read the last few.
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Also, seeing as Carnage Mode is listed separately, that implies the statement is referring to base CK. Meaning base CK>>>>>>>>>>>>VM and Beefcake. And Carnage Mode was strong enough for CK to believe he could defeat Saitama, even though previously he knew that he would get one shotted and was practically pissing himself after getting a hint of his strength for even a moment.
Naturally, Darkshine and those whose AP and dura scale to him would also scale to this.
Naturally, Darkshine and those whose AP and dura scale to him would also scale to this.
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"Frog Man was planning to execute all of mankind using the short sword he was so proud of." - Hero Encyclopedia
Proof that even tiger level monsters can dream big.
Proof that even tiger level monsters can dream big.
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I think he was actually a tiger.
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Also, seeing as Vaccine man is 30 megatons (almost half of the peak of city level), and CK is described as being in an "incomparably higher league", is that proof enough to say for sure that base CK is blatantly mountain level, with Carnage Mode CK being "At least" mountain level?
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So he is, so he is.
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Nah we can't upscale that much.
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I mean, it's just a 2.20 times difference between Vaccine Man and the pinnacle of his tier. To say that CK is in an "incomparably higher league" very much implies more than just a 2.20 times difference.
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iirc there is a new calc for VM that puts him in the gigaton range.
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Ah so Vaccine Man might become High 7-A or 6-C anyways. Placing base CK likely at Island level either way with how small the High 7-A tier is (possibly at High 6-C depending on what Vaccine Man actually gets), with Carnage Mode CK probably ending up being a likely High 6-C.
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I think that was rejected and the calc was wrong.
Also probably a massive outlier
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That's not how upscaling works tho. Being incomparably higher does not give a 2.2x multiplier
No, the only reason CK or anyone even scales to 7-A is because of EC possibly scaling above gouketsu via Geno's putting EC above a casual Gouketsu.
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It's a matter of implications. Saying that this statement doesn't at least imply far more than a mere 2.2 times difference is practically ignoring the statement entirely beyond it meaning he's stronger in general.
? CK currently isn't 7-A outside of a possibility for being able to somewhat match Darkshine, and VA is only city level cause of his 30 megaton feat. Idk how that stuff is relevant.
? CK currently isn't 7-A outside of a possibility for being able to somewhat match Darkshine, and VA is only city level cause of his 30 megaton feat. Idk how that stuff is relevant.
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"A character was stated to be extremely more powerful than another character, but let's just assume they're more or less equal because we don't have any detailed explanation of what the difference is" is basically the argument.
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I'm also pretty sure characters have upscaled from lower tiers in the past based on just statements before, as well.
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Those cases have been from differences of like 1.5x or less, which is barely anything. 2.2x would be far too much without any explicit multipliers.
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Saying that CK is in "an incomparably higher league" doesn't imply more than 2.2x? I fail to see the logic behind that. 2.2x is a decent difference, but by no means is it massive, let alone to the extent this statement would imply. It is a bit of a subjective matter of course, but even to that extent, I feel like almost anyone would agree that the implications suggest a difference much higher than 2.2x. At the absolute bare minimum though, base CK is strong enough to definitely be At least 7-B from this. But personally I think a 7-A rating is more than validated.
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No. I dunno where you're getting 2.2x from. We only upscale from 1.5x at best.
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Illogical, but if that's how the wiki does it then I just won't bother.
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Did the upscaling CRT ever come to a conclusion then? Last I heard we were doing 1.3X max, then "likely higher" and "likely far higher" beyond that.
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I think 1.3x was the one agreed upon? I'm not sure tbh
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It basically ended with “decide on a case by case basis.”
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well that is lame. 6 pages for nothing
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Quoting from the Powerscaling page:
“It is possible for a character who is depicted as vastly superior to another in a statistic to be placed in a tier above the other, given that the other character is close to the the next tier. However, this ultimately needs to be decided through case-by-case analysis.”
“It is possible for a character who is depicted as vastly superior to another in a statistic to be placed in a tier above the other, given that the other character is close to the the next tier. However, this ultimately needs to be decided through case-by-case analysis.”
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But was there a general multiplier we should use? Because a case by case basis might mean we use 7.5X for characters that can one-shot weaker characters and 1.3X for characters that are demonstrably above others but not by an incredible amount
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Nope. Nobody agreed on using a specific number, but I saw 1.5x to 1.3x to 1.1x thrown around as ideas, so I wouldn’t ever try to upscale anything greater than 1.5x.
