Strongest Non-Smurf Low 2-C (Discussion)

[Rendynoc0unter]

I mean Arata shouldn't even be past Koriel since I see no answer to thought-based info and concept ee

wdym

 

[deonment]

wdym

Koriel starts with thought based EE up to a CM1 and Info Type 2 level, or removing someone's concept and information from thier being which also power nulls them

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

Koriel starts with thought based EE up to a CM1 and Info Type 2 level, or removing someone's concept and information from thier being which also power nulls them

How can he survive the Breakdown Phenomenon that has a lot of Hax?, and also the Breakdown Phenomenon has a layer of hax. Will he be able to survive that?, Also will he be able to release him magic when she has to deal with Power Nullification Arata?, Power Nullification Arata has layers. And, can he survive the Time Stop that is based on Law Manipulation & Conceptual Manipulation Type 2?.

Then, how does he interact with Arata who has NeP Nature 1 & Ae1 as visions, realities, dreams, etc.

All the above abilities are Thought-Based

 

[deonment]

How can he survive the Breakdown Phenomenon that has a lot of Hax?, and also the Breakdown Phenomenon has a layer of hax. Will he be able to survive that?, Also will he be able to release him magic when she has to deal with Power Nullification Arata?, Power Nullification Arata has layers. And, can he survive the Time Stop that is based on Law Manipulation & Conceptual Manipulation Type 2?.

Then, how does he interact with Arata who has NeP Nature 1 & Ae1 as visions, realities, dreams, etc.

All the above abilities are Thought-Based

The fact that none of the stuff breakdown phenomena has any reason to work on something which is abstract since needs matter hax to go off for the rest of its stuff to even work. Koriel doesn't use magic so that's a moot point. Unless that power null works on a CM1 and Info Type 2 level, that means nothing. If arata stops time and Koriel EEs him koriel wins, so that is moot.
That needs to be activated and even if it didn't Koriel manipulates stuff that they don't have nep for, that being concept and info

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

The fact that none of the stuff breakdown phenomena has any reason to work on something which is abstract since needs matter hax to go off for the rest of its stuff to even work. Koriel doesn't use magic so that's a moot point. Unless that power null works on a CM1 and Info Type 2 level, that means nothing. If arata stops time and Koriel EEs him koriel wins, so that is moot.
That needs to be activated and even if it didn't Koriel manipulates stuff that they don't have nep for, that being concept and info

However, Breakdown Phenomenon has a low 2-C baseline due to Breakdown Phenomenon destroying the world itself.

And how does EE koriel work?.

However, on the other hand, Arata also has type 2 info.

 

[deonment]

However, Breakdown Phenomenon has a low 2-C baseline due to Breakdown Phenomenon destroying the world itself.

And how does EE koriel work?.

However, on the other hand, Arata also has type 2 info.

That doesn't mean it works on something that literally doesn't have matter as a part of its constituent parts

God corrects the existence of something it views as a distortion by erasing it, this erasure works on a CM1 and Info Type 2 level and is thought based

Not in a manner that is relevant

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

God corrects the existence of something it views as a distortion by erasing it, this erasure works on a CM1 and Info Type 2 level and is thought based

Existence Erasure (The Angelic Rifle's existence erasure simply weaponizes a weakened God's will to "correct" reality)

where??

still don't understand how the existence erasure works, because the justification is very different from what you said.

Anyways, Arata has a NeP & Ae1.

 

[deonment]

Existence Erasure (The Angelic Rifle's existence erasure simply weaponizes a weakened God's will to "correct" reality)

Read the citations
But if you do not wish to find them on the profile

Spoiler

"Pain is a signal that indicates the presence of distortion. When we become ill, our bodies produce substances such as malignant noradrenaline. It's a chemical in the brain responsible for causing pain, chills, dejection, and all manner of negative sensations. But this is a signal to repair a body that has begun to distort. This is why sick people are not cheerful and positive. We will begin to create a sick God that is cheerful and positive. We will stream distorted information through the Sense Spheres, gradually driving God mad. Once freed from pain, God won’t notice as it slowly goes insane. We will then cultivate the pain we have removed. We'll create beings of pure pain. Pain that no longer resides internally within God, but pain that can enter God from the outside." - Archangel, Guardian Angel's Memory Cutscene

"How did these mere artificial Sense Spheres manage to distort the entire world? Shouldn’t the Creator and Preserver have a vastly higher capacity for correcting distortions? How did things come to be this way?" / "The Creator and Preserver obtains the world's data through the Sense Spheres, processes it, and then releases it back into the world. With the world being preserved in this way, how did such a distortion come to be?" - Worker Angel (Research)

"God continuously takes in that information, repairs it, then releases it... However, the organ that takes in information is a Sense Sphere, and there are many of them buried all over in the real world of this setting. Rather than being tactile, they're organs that can take in or export information and have a spherical shape to increase their effective surface area." “Long Interview with Kazunari Yonemitsu.” Baroque World Guidance, Softbank, 1998

"I had been thinking about God's role in the setting, in what ways God shapes and influences the world, how it maintains the world, and how to explain why a person would continue to be the same one day after the other. Since God is vigorously maintaining all of the information in the world, if something deviates, it will be corrected and released back into the world. So if a person changes or their identity breaks, God would attend to that information while that person was sleeping and restore it to the way it was. In this view of the world, people can remain themselves. Thus, bread has always been bread, and so forth. However if God goes mad, bread will no longer be bread. The Idea Sefirah comes from Plato's "Why a triangle is a triangle is because the Idea of a triangle exists", so then it follows that a person has information defining them as a person. God continuously takes in that information, repairs it, then releases it. However, the organ that takes in information is a Sense Sphere, and there are many of them buried all over in the real world of this setting. Rather than being tactile, they're organs that can take in or export information and have a spherical shape to increase their effective surface area." - Kazunari Yonemitsu, Baroque World Guidance (1998)

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

It does explain how God's will is thought based and works normally but that doesn't mean Angelic rifle function similarly when it weaponizes it. How is the Angelic Rifle used in the co text of the verse?

 

[Megaraptor149]

Is AE1 Koriel abstraction on Concept (Type 1)? Is abstraction on that, sure Arata can't do anything to him

 

[deonment]

It does explain how God's will is thought based and works normally but that doesn't mean Angelic rifle function similarly when it weaponizes it. How is the Angelic Rifle used in the co text of the verse?

basically, the angel rifle shoots littles, cultivated representations of god's pain, so when shot at something, from god's PoV it is like after experiencing no pain at all for years, you feel pain like you just got stabbed out of nowhere. This triggers god's will to correct reality as can be seen from the statement from the archangel and erases the thing in question since as the archangel said, pain is a sign to the body that something is wrong.

 

[deonment]

Is AE1 Koriel abstraction on Concept (Type 1)? Is abstraction on that, sure Arata can't do anything to him

Yeah CM1 and Info 2

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

basically, the angel rifle shoots littles, cultivated representations of god's pain, so when shot at something, from god's PoV it is like after experiencing no pain at all for years, you feel pain like you just got stabbed out of nowhere. This triggers god's will to correct reality as can be seen from the statement from the archangel and erases the thing in question since as the archangel said, pain is a sign to the body that something is wrong.

then I believe it will not be thought-based if the angel rifle is needed to shoot it.
anyway aside from that everything else seems fair game

 

[deonment]

then I believe it will not be thought-based if the angel rifle is needed to shoot it.
anyway aside from that everything else seems fair game

The angelic rifle uses god's will to correct reality, the rifle itself takes advantage of this by triggering god's will through pain. The rifle only functions because of god's will, which you have already accepted as being thought-based. The rifle is only used to trigger the EE rather than being the only medium through which the EE can act.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

and the rifle needs to be utilized?
there isn't seem to be any video on how the weapon is used at all
but the description it has is that is uses The Littles as bullets after they are cultivated.

the way Koriel gain access to that EE is by that rifle
but that doesn't mean he gains the same capability of the Absolute God when utilizing the mechanics behind it.
without any instance that the rifle is thought based and doesn't need to be aimed or triggered then there is zero reason to assume it is thought based

 

[deonment]

and the rifle needs to be utilized?
there isn't seem to be any video on how the weapon is used at all
but the description it has is that is uses The Littles as bullets after they are cultivated.

For human beings yes, the rifle only weaponizes god's will rather than being the only way god's will can act.
It is the difference between a nuke using nuclear fission and nuclear fission itself, the former weaponizes the latter, but the latter reaction still exists in nature and someone who has control over it can produce the effects of the former.
That's because most people don't use the weapon outside of to proc an ending

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

For human beings yes, the rifle only weaponizes god's will rather than being the only way god's will can act.
It is the difference between a nuke using nuclear fission and nuclear fission itself, the former weaponizes the latter, but the latter reaction still exists in nature and someone who has control over it can produce the effects of the former.
That's because most people don't use the weapon outside of to proc an ending

so I assume We're using Koriel after he fused?
if then yes I guess it is instant because at that point he fused with Absolute God.
then that EE description is misleading since it says Angelic Rifle when at that point he should be capable of well just doing it without it

 

[deonment]

so I assume We're using Koriel after he fused?
if then yes I guess it is instant because at that point he fused with Absolute God.
then that EE description is misleading since it says Angelic Rifle when at that point he should be capable of well just doing it without it

Yeah
I mean kinda kinda not, since it states that the rifle uses a weakened god's will, and given the rest of the stuff in that key, one could presuppose that god's will would be >> the rifle and thereby should be able to do whatever it can do but better and without the restrictions of the rifle or needing to use it

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

just say the EE upscales from that angelic rifle who can do this and that and it is good enough

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

after I tried to understand and reread the scene you provided, as well as the justification on the wiki. I see that this ability works when touching the opponent and making him feel pain as a distortion trigger. Is that correct?

if true, it still won't affect Arata first, because before he does that we can still use a fight narrative like "Arata will become non-existent & abstraction simultaneously", since the ability is only mind-based

so, Koriel needs a much higher speed to affect Arata first before he becomes non-existent

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

Is AE1 Koriel abstraction on Concept (Type 1)? Is abstraction on that, sure Arata can't do anything to him

and Koriel's like that too.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

He doesn't need to touch. Absolute God's power which is what Koriel will use instead of the angelic Rifle happens all throughout the universe the moment it notices the distortions or pain and will correct it. so in that sense, it is a universal range with thought-based trigger
As for AE1 and Concept Type 1 and NEP
Arata has limited NEP on Mental and Spiritual aspects not on Information and Concept
so Info manip and concept erasure can still affect him or destroy him

 

[Megaraptor149]

and Koriel's like that too.

Koriel AE1 is superior than Arata AE1 which is abstraction on Concept (Type 1) rather than Arata abstraction on visions, realities, dreams, etc. Besides that Arata NEP is just Aspect 1 & 3 which is can still affected by Koriel CM1

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

cm 1 can affect nep natue 1?

 

[CodeCCLL]

If Cm 1 didn't show interact related to NEP 1 (CM 1 of characters like Madoka works on NEP 1 characters.) ,
We assume that Cm 1 cann't interact with NEP 1.
But if the characters that already have NEP 1 can use CM 1 when they are in NEP 1 form , They can interact with NEP 1.
Also characters controlling the Concept of Nonexistent can also interact with NEP.
Aspects are very important if both characters have NEP.
For example, if 2 characters have NEP 1 but one character has Aspect Type 2 (Type 1 Concept), the other character cannot kill it without Conceptual Manipulation Type 1.

(I'm not very knowledgeable about NEP and CM but I think it works that way.)

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

i have no idea what you just said but

NEP Nature 1 is now separated into multiple aspects. to avoid NLF
they are only considered nonexistent to an extent based on the aspect they lack. thus if your nep type 1 doesn't have aspect type that means those aspect is still existent to you and can be manipulated against you.

for example. you can still affect NEP type 1 aspect 2 with information manipulation type 2 if it hasn't shown any feat of being nonexistent to such aspect or fundamental aspect of reality.

Now NEP will grant you unconventional resistance to certain hax depending on what aspect you lack and not all of it

So in summary yeah CM type 1 can affect nature type 1 if it doesn't have aspect type 2

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

I will ask someone who has knowledge about it. and thank you for your answer.
@TheGreatJedi13 @CodeCCLL

 

[deonment]

after I tried to understand and reread the scene you provided, as well as the justification on the wiki. I see that this ability works when touching the opponent and making him feel pain as a distortion trigger. Is that correct?

if true, it still won't affect Arata first, because before he does that we can still use a fight narrative like "Arata will become non-existent & abstraction simultaneously", since the ability is only mind-based

so, Koriel needs a much higher speed to affect Arata first before he becomes non-existent

Once again, the angelic rifle only weaponizes god's will rather than being the only way it takes place. God normally use uses their will to fix the distortions within reality, however, the angelic rifle weaponizes this to erase things by making something appear to be, by the fact that god's pain was taken away and the littles are concentrated pain, so much of a distortion that god treats it like how your immune system would treat a virus, disease or something of that sort.
It erases it. This erasure happens on the level of type 2 info and CM1, and is thought-based as it is literally god's will. Under SBA there are two ways this can go for Arata, either A, they get erased as god sees them as a distortion or B god purifies them which is removing their type 1 concept and type 2 information from them, which also includes all of their powers

 

[Dragonite007]

So... Destiny was downgrade, The downgrade affct the Low 2-C characters?

 

[deonment]

So... Destiny was downgrade, The downgrade affct the Low 2-C characters?

No, it only affects the tiering of the people who scaled to 2-B and up, so no nothing changes here

 

[CNBA3]

Does anyone out there know Destiny, otherwise I think I should make a match.

I can help with that.

 

[deonment]

Koriel should be moved above arata for low 2-C from the above discussion

 

[Dragonite007]

Koriel should be moved above arata for low 2-C from the above discussion

Done