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Top 15 Strongest Non-Smurfs for Every Tier Continuation

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deonment said:
That presumes he doesn't have a vessel under SBA
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Ehit already exists as a concept without possessing Yue's body, and Ehit's soul and mind are still conceptual even while in Yue's body. (He also already has a key that doesn't have Yue)
deonment said:
1)The passives work and incap him 2)Nothing stops them from ******* over his mind in either scenario due to said passives, stopping him from taking any action in the first place, including said info type 2 and CM type 1 attacks
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If they do not have the necessary interaction abilities, they cannot interact with Ehit's mind.

Also, I'm not even an Arifureta supporter, someone knowledgeable about the verse like @Expectro2000xxx can probably say much, much more. (I would be very surprised if Ehit doesn't have concept type 2/1 and information type 2 level passives, even Ehit's passive ultimate barrier of seven ancient magic-based (concept stuff) might be enough to against all the Ergenverse's passives)
 
Touhou should be removed for now
Note: Please do not create VS threads or content revision threads involving Touhou Project, as the verse is heavily outdated and is being actively worked on
Also DMC characters stomp Reimu and Yukari now because they have like 30+ layers accepted for demon energy so those two should not be here anyway
 
Arkenis said:
Completely out of Low 5-B?
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I would say yes. If I recall from the last thread, you couldn’t have multiple characters from one series in a tier unless they shared the same spot and Lilith is lower than Adam in this case because no passives, (idek if Adam has passives either, the whole thing with Adam is super vague in my honest opinion but meh), so only Adam should be in Low 5-B, meaning Rei has to go.
 
Robo432343 said:
Touhou should be removed for now
Note: Please do not create VS threads or content revision threads involving Touhou Project, as the verse is heavily outdated and is being actively worked on
Also DMC characters stomp Reimu and Yukari now because they have like 30+ layers accepted for demon energy so those two should not be here anyway
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Type 1 concept EE + Nonduality go brrr

Anyways, I personally don't mind if Touhou is taken off the list for the time being.
 
Li qiye should be in top one, in speed inequalized, no one can deal with him just....Using duality type 2 + Acasuality type 5
 
Livinmeme said:
Li qiye should be in top one, in speed inequalized, no one can deal with him just....Using duality type 2 + Acasuality type 5
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Acausality 5 and nondualtiy just makes you uninteractable, its not really a wincon if the opponent resist everything they have
 
CodeCCLL said:
Also, I'm not even an Arifureta supporter, someone knowledgeable about the verse like @Expectro2000xxx can probably say much, much more. (I would be very surprised if Ehit doesn't have concept type 2/1 and information type 2 level passives, even Ehit's passive ultimate barrier of seven ancient magic-based (concept stuff) might be enough to against all the Ergenverse's passives)
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I mean, regarding the mind manip argument I could say that Ehit type 1 concept comes directly from the sheer strength of his will, so I honestly don't think normal mind manip would be capable to affect his will given how abstract it is. His will is also stupid enough that even after have his existence erased by Hajime's type 1 concept bullet, his will to live continued existing and was mutating in a big threat while also absorbing the surrounding conception, Hajime and Yue had to use yet another type 1 concept to finally kill him, and as result of that an explosion that was going to literally destroy the planet was going to happen, so on top of all the previous stuff one would also need to survive the hurdle of the planet getting destroyed.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Doesn't matter because it's not affecting type 2 nonduality/layered type 2 NEP.
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Im talking about Reimu and Yukari. They shouldn't be on the list, it should be the characters with the layered NEP and TD instead coz DMC characters probably stomp those two

also yeah the nonduality only being immune to things you are shown to transcend has been accepted
 
Also yukari and 2hu in general still gets memed by plot manip haxs, so their NEP is kinda useless against that
 
Livinmeme said:
Also yukari and 2hu in general still gets memed by plot manip haxs, so their NEP is kinda useless against that
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No
it is NLF to assume plot hax can effect characters with that level of NEP unless shown
it was covered in this thread
vsbattles.com

The problem with Plot Manipulation.

(This thread has now been moved to a Staff thread, so none staff members without permission needs to first ask a staff member to talk here) Let's get straight to the point. When we deal with plot manipulation on the profile in versus battles, their are always full of NLFs. The majority of...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
stop the plot manip glazing 😭
 
Robo432343 said:
Im talking about Reimu and Yukari. They shouldn't be on the list, it should be the characters with the layered NEP and TD instead coz DMC characters probably stomp those two

also yeah the nonduality only being immune to things you are shown to transcend has been accepted
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Reimu beat KR Saber while IIRC Junko can't, so yes, they can stay.
 
DaReaperMan said:
That's kind of the point, isn't it?

Plus, Plot Manipulation now is on the same position as everything else-- That being it needs proof of affecting XYZ.
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No? Plot is an aspect of every being, like law, cm, and casuality, why do we assume that those can affect NEP characters that are devoid of those aspects, yet plot manipulation doesn't follow the same rule? If CM can affect a NEP that isn't devoid of CM, then the same should apply to plot right? By that logic, why have aspects
 
Robo432343 said:
i guess spongebob destroys conceptual NEP beings now coz plot manip!!
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Yes- I mean, if your first argument is incredibility, without explaning why you are like that, then you kinda failed the argument as a whole, and this is the wiki that says that Sanic can go toe to toe with superman, btw
 
Livinmeme said:
Yes-
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brother it literally says on the plot manip page
"Regarding No-Limits Fallacies, users cannot simply be assumed to bring out any imaginable effect. They are assumed to be limited in both applications and scale to what they demonstrated or can be reasoned to be capable based of reliable statements. For instance, a character whose plot manipulation can affect concepts, would need to also demonstrate the ability to affect information for them to utilize both in a combat setting. See here for more information regarding this topic."

There is a big fat note regarding plot manip and NLF's to stop people like yall saying stuff like this but its not even working 😭
 
If your nonexistent narratively but not conceptually, then you can be affected by Concept Manipulation. Similarly if you are nonexistent conceptually but not narratively then you can be affected by Plot Manipulation. Nonexistent Physiology has aspects for a a reason, and no that doesn't go against that note as this applies to every ability not just Plot Manipulation.
 
Everything12 said:
If your nonexistent narratively but not conceptually, then you can be affected by Concept Manipulation. Similarly if you are nonexistent conceptually but not narratively then you can be affected by Plot Manipulation. Nonexistent Physiology has aspects for a a reason, and no that doesn't go against that note as this applies to every ability not just Plot Manipulation.
Click to expand...
But wouldn't that depend on what the Plot Manipulation is doing? Like, if a character has resistance to Fire Manipulation, and a being uses Plot Manipulation to burn them, they would be able to resist it right?

You're saying Plot Manipulation can affect a being's narrative, which they would need proof of being an aspect of their NEP, in order to be immune, but some Plot Manipulation is just a method characters use to create effects, just like some characters use Reality Warping to perform Spatial Manipulation. In that case, if the Plot Manipulation tries to affect a NEP Being's body for example, which is non-existent, it wouldn't work, right? Only if the Plot Manipulation specifically targets a NEP being's narrative would it work.
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
But wouldn't that depend on what the Plot Manipulation is doing? Like, if a character has resistance to Fire Manipulation, and a being uses Plot Manipulation to burn them, they would be able to resist it right?

You're saying Plot Manipulation can affect a being's narrative, which they would need proof of being an aspect of their NEP, in order to be immune, but some Plot Manipulation is just a method characters use to create effects, just like some characters use Reality Warping to perform Spatial Manipulation. In that case, if the Plot Manipulation tries to affect a NEP Being's body for example, which is non-existent, it wouldn't work, right? Only if the Plot Manipulation specifically targets a NEP being's narrative would it work.
Click to expand...
It depends, if the Plot Manipulation just manipulates the narrative to create an ordinary fire then ordinary Fire Manipulation resistance would protect them (though if they use their ability to alter the narrative so that the fire is guaranteed to burn them then even an ordinary fire can bypass resistance if they have no defence against Plot Manipulation), but if the fire is an extension of the Plot Manipulation and works on a narrative level then ordinary Fire Manipulation resistance wouldn't do anything. Same with conceptual fire and other such "special" fire, just because it appears to be fire does not mean it functions like fire and affects things like fire.

Though yes, if the Plot Manipulation is only able to create attacks that affect something physical then they don't have to be narratively nonexistent to be unaffected, as is the same with Concept Manipulation then merely manipulates a concept to create ordinary phenomenon but doesn't actually interact with the actual enemy conceptually.
 
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